Our O-Line moving foward

[NewEra]

! Harbaugh did that in college. Luck spent a week studying with Tom Moore before he played an NFL game.

And plenty more prep we don`t know about we can all be sure of.

You must watch the games on the radio! Get ___ real!!

Get real about what? I'm not sure if you're talking to me or smoked yourself foolish. Cause if you don't think the OC is responsible for the offense then you're a complete *...

[akcolt]

Lol. The oline isn't all pro but it is serviceable. Grigson has brought in tons of people to fix these issues. The biggest thing is coaching and game planning. A ton of people like to point to the Patriots oline as the standard but they often are starting undrafter players. The biggest difference is their coaching staff and QB mask their deficiencies.

Imo the defense has almost no blame tonight and the oline has some but not much blame. This game was heavily influenced by the inadequate play of Luck and the horrid horrid calling and coordinating of the offense.

I agree with this both NE games last yr were the same the O killed us until the D was exhausted then the massacre

[lennymoore24]

I would shake things up a bit

 

LT - Castonzo

LG - Mewhort

C - Holmes

RG - Reitz

RT - Good

 

Good is raw, but she showed me in preseason he has great feet and strength. Couldn't be worse then playing the guards we have right now.

[Mr.Debonair]

Did anyone when Todd was like blocking with the his back to the defender last night. I told my fiancé right there, this line is going to get Luck killed

[Surge89]

I would offer my hand in support. The line is most def serviceable. Top tier? a humorous "no"; but, the same response could be offered for the argument of the line being in the bottom handful as well. The coaching on the offensive line could/should be more sound and to this point have yielded more positive "results", but I would like to focus on the above bold statement...

I posed a thought in the reaction thread, and I would like to pose the thought here as well-

We have seen the pattern of our offense in the face of adversity thus far this season- throw the ball down field. Now, my question is, is this pattern a result of an individuals decision making, or because a fundamental change was installed this off-season in regards to the ideology and culture of the offense?

philosophically I could understand and even argue in support of stretching the field while facing intense pressure and a wildly unpredictable defense (in terms of bringing pressure and from where, all the while not tipping their hand in the secondary). and i would say that a "weak" offensive line could lend credence to this ideology. How? It is understand today, even within the football layman, that if a team is blitzing that a quick and short pass is a great way to counter the defenses aggressiveness...but in most coverage, what is more easy to predict/defend? a quicker, shorter route tree. Why? because a physical DB can get his hands on the WR and disrupt timing, it is a shorter field to cover in regards to balancing man or zone responsibilities, and the closer you are to the line of scrimmage, the more physical bodies are present. the middle of the field is crowded, and the outside is still not multiple yards up field and away from defenders.

we also have seen a huge drop off (to almost non existence) in the targets/production to/from our TEs. We have also seen this same decline in regards to RBs involvement in the passing game. I am of the belief, and am posing the debate to the forum-

is the errant play by Luck, and the "abandoning" of the heavy (multiple TE) setsa and an emphasis on the "power" running game, with the huge increase in attacking (lobbing the ball) downfield tied to an individuals breakdown (Luck), a coaching staff (OC play calling), or a change in the offensive ideology from that of the past 3 years, to an ideology that is not similar to the previous 3 years an almost any aspect?

basically what I am aiming to discuss, in all of my ramblings, is...I am of the belief that our team is not too far gone. I believe that the Online is "serviceable" and does give us the ability to compete against any NFL team. Will we dominate, no, but we can compete. I also believe that the common notion of play calling and abandoning aspects of the game is a little misunderstood as well. Perhaps id like to have more faith in the coaching staff than to suspect that all of the troubles are cause by what play is called/checked to...

but perhaps the negativity towards the coaching needs to be shifted away from the plays, and moved to the thoughts behind the plays. I believe what is causing soooo many fans and NFL observers alike to question the Colts offense is the original idea that Coach P was going to install a POWER RUN games, and tried very relentlessly for 3 years to do so. Now we have a plethora of what should be very capable WRs and deep threats, and I believe that a scheme change was made not only in the defense this season, but also the offense.

Its just the perception of the failures to the masses, and the lack of discussion regarding the offensive scheme change (we all talked about the Colts Defense changing schemes with the roster cuts, personnel changes...but in the off-season all of the offensive personnel changes, were not viewed as a scheme change, but merely as creating the "Greatest Shoe on Turf".

Perhaps if this were to be true, and better understood by those screaming for mass firings after 2 weeks...perhaps we should still be concerned, but maybe doing far less finger pointing, and understanding we are doing something different then we have. And through growing pains muscles are built.

Whew that's a mouthful lol.

In summary I'd respond with the following:

I'm in the belief that this offense has tremendous talent and could be quite amazing but the coordinator, oline coach, and QB coach must be changed for it to reachange potential. As far as reasoning behind said plays is where I have the most issue. You see drafting Dorsett (another TY) is a very backwards mentality to defeating blitzing teams and notes to a searching for the "big play". But in doing so we now are laughably exposed to teams who bring the heat. And when teams blitz you must have short options to hurriedly release the ball and tire the pass rush. But you can't do so without bigger body receivers who are able to beat corners with little to no separation. Knowing this the absence of TEs frustrates me even more. If they blitz we have Moncrief, Allen, Fleener, Johnson and Doyle to catch and out muscle in the middle of the field and yet we refuse to use it... I just don't understand. (Also doesn't help that Luck hasn't shown this season that he can even hit those passes)

So yes the philosophy is flawed. Heavily flawed. Someone either doesn't understand basic football or they are trying to be too cute with fundamentals.

Also I forgot to mention that in your example it makes sense to stretch the field with one receiver but doing a time consuming routes for every receiver doesn't make sense. The oline can only cover realistically and optimally 5 people. That's when everything goes correct (which never happens) so when the rush comes the QB must have an option to throw to in the time frame of a runner to get to the QB... which is usually quite quick. So while yes it's predictable its the reasonable way to beat the blitz without asking someone to do something extraordinary.

[ColtsXxForever]

Every since we switched our o-line coach we have been terrible. Whoever he is he needs to go right now at least the last o-line coach got more with less, and we need to get Louis the hell out of there. Put good at rt..and jack at LG even doe jack mewhort isn't a beast in the run game he is in the pass game plus I think good can handle it he 340 pounds

[ColtsXxForever]

I would shake things up a bit

LT - Castonzo

LG - Mewhort

C - Holmes

RG - Reitz

RT - Good

Good is raw, but she showed me in preseason he has great feet and strength. Couldn't be worse then playing the guards we have right now.

wow I just wrote almost the same thing

[CoachSmok3]

Whew that's a mouthful lol. (agreed lol... i can never seem to tell me self to shut up and stop rambling lol)

You see drafting Dorsett (another TY) is a very backwards mentality to defeating blitzing teams and notes to a searching for the "big play". But in doing so we now are laughably exposed to teams who bring the heat. And when teams blitz you must have short options to hurriedly release the ball and tire the pass rush. But you can't do so without bigger body receivers who are able to beat corners with little to no separation. Knowing this the absence of TEs frustrates me even more. If they blitz we have Moncrief, Allen, Fleener, Johnson and Doyle to catch and out muscle in the middle of the field and yet we refuse to use it... I just don't understand. (Also doesn't help that Luck hasn't shown this season that he can even hit those passes)

Also I forgot to mention that in your example it makes sense to stretch the field with one receiver but doing a time consuming routes for every receiver doesn't make sense. The oline can only cover realistically and optimally 5 people. That's when everything goes correct (which never happens) so when the rush comes the QB must have an option to throw to in the time frame of a runner to get to the QB... which is usually quite quick. So while yes it's predictable its the reasonable way to beat the blitz without asking someone to do something extraordinary.

Thank you for taking the time to read through my post and offering a very thoughtful response. I would offer my only disagreement first, the drafting of Dorsett. While I can agree with you that imo (our opinion) the selection was a luxury (“possible wasted”) pick for a team that had several other more pressing needs that most def could have been addressed with the same pick. But where I would offer my counter is in the philosophy behind the selection in reference to your stance this was a “backwards mentality to defeating blitzing teams”.- I believe that may not necessarily be true. Again, I believe that a valid philosophy to defeating the blitz is to pressure the defense by stretching the field. But where I absolutely can agree with you on this topic is- when you mentioned stretching the field while also retaining your QBs “safety” check down throw. I do not believe if you are sending 4-5 people in route that you should only send 1 vertical while keeping 3-4 on short routes. I believe you can still find balance and effectiveness with sending 2-3 targets downfield, and leaving a single target in close relation to the QB for a check down.

 

But I also believe that this IS happening currently. Are the TEs staying in to block and not doing delayed releases, or even short routes? Not really too much at all, no. But, a big complaint we have all heard is Luck had Gore/Varga with space in front of them and never looked their way. So while I think the offense has been TOO deep happy thus far, I also believe the check down option has most def still been in place, it has just not been utilized.

 

I agree the OC thus far is leaving A LOT to be desired, the OLine coach has NOT maximized the talent available thus far (I do think as the season progresses, barring injuries, the OLine will show vast improvement by seasons end), changing the QB though? I may agree that Luck has made some horrible choices and throws so far…be he should def not be going anywhere else soon lol.

 

Thank you for offering some good food for thought this morning and partaking in my minds crazy thoughts lol

[GoColts00]

Andrew Aziz wrote an article on Stampedeblue.com today...http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/9/23/9369471/a-culture-change-is-needed-in-indianapolis

" Pagano's "offensive line-3 years" comment after the Jets game is a pretty clear shot at Grigson. We all know Grigson is in charge of the personnel and that was Pagano's way of saying "Hey, nothing's changed with this O-line, it's still crap and it's your fault!" It's obvious there's something going on.""

 

I believe that was a shot at Grigson and rightfully so. Grigs is in charge of personnel. He has to get some good Interior O-Linemen!  Lance Louis showed that he sucked last year and nothing has changed. Todd Herremans was brought in, but from what i read initially he was average at best. 

[bleevit]

I'm usually a supporter of the coaching staff; however, at this point the picture is becoming more and more clear.  Three games in a row now our gameplan has called for the kind of pass protection that is well beyond the capabilities of this unit.  I think they thought (they said it enough times) that if the O-line had time to work together and gel they would improved.  What they have gelled into I think needs to be scraped off the bottom of Ryan Grigson's shoes.  No bueno.  Short drops, slants, stacks, undetected picks are the only way this bunch will consistently move the chains.  The long developing plays can develop later as the defenses tire.  Clearly, a talented fresh defense will continue to eat this offense alive.  

 

Another thought I had after listening to Rick Venturi's podcast was that the personnel could be changed somewhat.  I think it is time to give Joe Reitz a shot somewhere in this O-line.  Venturi alluded to even Costanzo's performance dropping off which could be due in part to who he is playing next to.  If you put Reitz in at either left guard or right tackle there is a possibility that at least one side of the line would improve and Gore and a tight end could concentrate on helping the other side.  I see no indication that the line as presently situated has any chance whatsoever against quality defenses.  Three straight woodshed performances should be enough to convince even the most stubborn of coaches that it is time for a change.  While the real improvement cannot occur until their next draft, what is present now can surely play better than what we've seen.  

 

Coach Pagano made the comment about seeing this stuff for years, but I can say with the certainty of my 60+ years of observation that the opposing coaches have seen this, are exploiting it, and are definitely getting better at attacking this down the field offense.  Someone needs to wake up and make some real meaningful changes.   

[GoColts8818]

I don't think Good is a right option for right tackle right now. He was struggling against other teams backups in the pre-season and Vinturi did a great job explaining his faults in the pre-season. While he might be able to do it later in the season I don't think he's ready yet.

So if they make a change at tackle it will be for rietz. I also don't think Mewhort at tackle is the problem. I think the problem is the middle of the line. While I understand how moving Mewhort back to left guard can help that I think it leaves a very weak right side of the line.

I think we might get to see Thornton get one last chance this weekend to prove he belongs in the NFL this weekend if Lance can't go. If Thornton does well (not holding my breath) maybe they stick with him and try rietz at the other guard spot.

Still I think Grigson feels like the one thing they haven't tried is consistency on the line so I expect them to stick with this lineup. I also think Grigson really likes Lance. To a fault. So I think he will stick by him.

Honestly the best option is to mask the line by going hurry up offense to start games to wear out the other D and quick pass plays so the blitz just doesn't have time to be effective. Let your play makers make plays. There is enough speed out there they can do it.

[will426]

I think it is time to stop blaming the o-line. Seattle has converted defensive lineman on their line. Patriots starting two rookies. The problem is Luck is holding the ball too long and Hamilton has no ability to gameplan. They do the same thing every week, every play.

luck holds it due to peps play calls lol but his interceptions are on him being that he hasn't been sacked much

[Lawrence Owen]

wow I just wrote almost the same thing

 

I would shake things up a bit

 

LT - Castonzo

LG - Mewhort

C - Holmes

RG - Reitz

RT - Good

 

Good is raw, but she showed me in preseason he has great feet and strength. Couldn't be worse then playing the guards we have right now.

Can't do that.  And i'll explain why.

 

Good is yes raw, and needs to get up to NFL sped, but that's not the main reason. Continuity.

What if Mewhort, or Goode got hurt? That puts the healthy one switching positions to the one that got hurt on top of throwing in a back-up to fill that void. ESPECIALLY if it is Goode that was the one whom got hurt. That would screw up Mewhorts continuity of playing the position he's been at. 

Mewhort at RT with Goode backing him up is  the right call right now.  But  we really need to replace Louis asap.

[theanarchist]

I would shake things up a bit

 

LT - Castonzo

LG - Mewhort

C - Holmes

RG - Reitz

RT - Good

 

Good is raw, but she showed me in preseason he has great feet and strength. Couldn't be worse then playing the guards we have right now.

The only thing to really do would be to insert Reitz at RT and move Mewhort over to LG. Basically thats what we had at the end of the season last year. The problem is that you still have Herremans and Holmes out there....

 

Here's something to think about, what's going to happen when one of these guys go down? There's no quality depth there at all.

[theanarchist]

luck holds it due to peps play calls lol but his interceptions are on him being that he hasn't been sacked much

Even tho he hasnt been sacked  much theres been no pocket and on about half of his passes he's getting killed right after he lets the ball go. There's times I see him let the pass go and take a huge shot and think, wow, will he get up from that?

[theanarchist]

Andrew Aziz wrote an article on Stampedeblue.com today...http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/9/23/9369471/a-culture-change-is-needed-in-indianapolis

" Pagano's "offensive line-3 years" comment after the Jets game is a pretty clear shot at Grigson. We all know Grigson is in charge of the personnel and that was Pagano's way of saying "Hey, nothing's changed with this O-line, it's still crap and it's your fault!" It's obvious there's something going on.""

 

I believe that was a shot at Grigson and rightfully so. Grigs is in charge of personnel. He has to get some good Interior O-Linemen!  Lance Louis showed that he sucked last year and nothing has changed. Todd Herremans was brought in, but from what i read initially he was average at best. 

Herreman's best days are behind him, like Trent Coles' and Andre Johnson. Look at Philipelphia this year. Their line has played terrible and Philly didn't even want Herremans back.

[Gavin]

The only thing to really do would be to insert Reitz at RT and move Mewhort over to LG. Basically thats what we had at the end of the season last year. The problem is that you still have Herremans and Holmes out there....

The answer is:

 

LT-Castonzo

LG-Reitz

C-Holmes(Who would look better with Reitz next to him)

RG-Herremans(For now)

RT-Mewhort

[theanarchist]

The answer is:

 

LT-Castonzo

LG-Reitz

C-Holmes(Who would look better with Reitz next to him)

RG-Herremans(For now)

RT-Mewhort

I hate to quote bevis and butthead but here goes: You can't polish a turd bevis

[1959Colts]

Perhaps Hugh Thornton will play this week at G?

We'll get to see if maybe he can be the answer for this year.

[Coffeedrinker]

The answer is:

 

LT-Castonzo

LG-Reitz

C-Holmes(Who would look better with Reitz next to him)

RG-Herremans(For now)

RT-Mewhort

AC

Reitz

Holmes

Thornton

Mewhort

 

Holmes has played really well in the 1st two games and I really didn't like the move of Mewhort to RT but he's been impressive... he has some work to do but he is already much more polished at RT than i would have expected.

 

Get Herr out of there and have Louis be the primary back-up.  Louis has played average in the 1st two games but he's played quite a bit better than Herremans.

[1959Colts]

AC

Reitz

Holmes

Thornton

Mewhort

 

Holmes has played really well in the 1st two games and I really didn't like the move of Mewhort to RT but he's been impressive... he has some work to do but he is already much more polished at RT than i would have expected.

 

Get Herr out of there and have Louis be the primary back-up.  Louis has played average in the 1st two games but he's played quite a bit better than Herremans.

 

Lance Louis has been taking most of the heat, but from my observations... Heeremans has been the worst.

[ColtsXxForever]

Can't do that. And i'll explain why.

Good is yes raw, and needs to get up to NFL sped, but that's not the main reason. Continuity.

What if Mewhort, or Goode got hurt? That puts the healthy one switching positions to the one that got hurt on top of throwing in a back-up to fill that void. ESPECIALLY if it is Goode that was the one whom got hurt. That would screw up Mewhorts continuity of playing the position he's been at.

Mewhort at RT with Goode backing him up is the right call right now. But we really need to replace Louis asap.

that's why good should play he is raw but he's talented and he is 335 pounds. The switch is much needed because mewhort can provide great pass block and average to above average run block, plus the real way to learn is to play. Good is good lol in my book

[1959Colts]

The Colts O-Line has struggled protecting against Tennessee in the past.

I remember Jurrell Casey and LB Derrick Morgan giving us problems.

In addition to these two, they have now added Brian Orakpo,

Morgan and Orakpo will be a challenge tor our tackles

Holmes, Heeremans and whomever the other guard is, will be tested inside blocking Casey.

[Track Guy]

The answer is:

 

LT-Castonzo

LG-Reitz

C-Holmes(Who would look better with Reitz next to him)

RG-Herremans(For now)

RT-Mewhort

 

Agree that this is what we should try first.

[throwing BBZ]

Agree that this is what we should try first.

 

 Herremans is dead weight. Somebody else, Anybody, Please! Go Colts!!

[krunk]

Lot of crying going on right now and the line isn't the best in the world, but it still may not be as bad as it looks.

We just played I would say two teams that in all likelihood will be in the top 5 of defensive teams in the NFL. They

have the ability to make you look silly and stupid with the beasts they have on the D line. The thing is though these Ground and Pound teams with no quarterback rarely make the playoffs so I'm not even real sure that we'll see either one of them in January. And yes I am saying we will be there.  I just know this team they will rally and get it together.

 

As far as the rest of the season goes I doubt we'll see any other teams that play D like the Bills and the Jets.  I mean sure whoever else we play will try to blitz, but they won't have the personnel like those two teams.  Maybe Denver, but we'll handle that when we get there.  I'm going to keep watching because I expect the blocking to improve and I think it can be done with some scheming and better execution.  The run blocking is pretty good right now, and I think a couple changes to the scheme IF made will fix the other issues.  This line isn't going to be the Cowboys at any point, but a couple changes here or there can get us a pretty serviceable group.  We all thought they were trash going into the playoffs, but they did fine once the short passing game was added in.  In some ways we've just gotten away from it, and in other ways when we've went short you have Luck over throwing the ball badly or guys dropping the football.  

 

That's my take, I'm not going to be one of the ones on here crying and whining with the doom and gloom.  I'm just going to keep watching and see how we deal with these issues. I expect we'll get things corrected.

[krunk]

We just have to accentuate our strengths.  If we see that as of right now we are a better run blocking team than pass blocking then why not incorporate more run plays into the offense and then play action off the run? Gore is beasting it out there right now so you know the defense is going to bite.  Short passing and screen game to guys like Dorsett, Moncrief, T.Y. and throwing out of the backfield to Gore.  We can still strike deep off the play action.  The point is I think the pass blocking issues can be schemed away if Pagano/Pep/Chud make the necessary changes.  If the changes are not made then it's more of a coaching problem than it is a player problem.   Also the penalties have been another issue, we've been in 1st and 20, 2nd and 15, 3rd and 10 any number of times.  That type of thing can never be positive.

[CoachSmok3]

The answer is:

 

LT-Castonzo

LG-Reitz

C-Holmes(Who would look better with Reitz next to him)

RG-Herremans(For now)

RT-Mewhort

while i would def have to agree that, in my opinion as well, this would be the most sound line with the current personnel. To play off another's devils advocate...what then If we see an injury?

 

specifically an injury to AC (God forbid) or Mewhort?....if Reitz is moved inside to LG...that leaves the only depth at OT being D Good...

 

or say then Reitz gets hurt? back to where we started while also leaving only D Good as the depth at OT...

 

while I am playing on hypotheticals in the injury dept...moving the OL around at this point will come down to calculated risk...

 

and imo...this would be a risk best NOT taken. 

 

*Imagine the OL being...(AC, Louis, Holmes, Herremans, Good).... or even... (Reitz, Louis, Homes, Herremans, Mewhort)... or ... (AC, Louis, Harrison, Reitz, Good).... im finding a very hard time making up a line that makes me comfortable with any changes to the oline at this time with the current personnel

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

I'm at a loss.  I'm usually one of the most positive posters around but this team just looks soft and lost.  And when I say soft, I mean liquid butter in Death Valley soft.

 

It's gut-wrenching because the team looks like it is on the verge of completely imploding. 

No worries, Grigs will will use our pick in the middle of the first rd to get

another receiver and all will be better.

[Gavin]

while i would def have to agree that, in my opinion as well, this would be the most sound line with the current personnel. To play off another's devils advocate...what then If we see an injury?

 

specifically an injury to AC (God forbid) or Mewhort?....if Reitz is moved inside to LG...that leaves the only depth at OT being D Good...

 

or say then Reitz gets hurt? back to where we started while also leaving only D Good as the depth at OT...

 

while I am playing on hypotheticals in the injury dept...moving the OL around at this point will come down to calculated risk...

 

and imo...this would be a risk best NOT taken. 

 

*Imagine the OL being...(AC, Louis, Holmes, Herremans, Good).... or even... (Reitz, Louis, Homes, Herremans, Mewhort)... or ... (AC, Louis, Harrison, Reitz, Good).... im finding a very hard time making up a line that makes me comfortable with any changes to the oline at this time with the current personnel

To me that's why you carry 10 O Linemen, Right now we are carrying 5 Safeties...All healthy...Now I don't know how healthy but they have all played in the first two games rather on special teams or defense, Then bring up Ulrick John if healthy, Also Thornton has played LT in college

 

Now obviously Thornton is not an ideal fit at LT and John may not be ready to back up Castonzo but its not like Reitz is a good option either honestly, I mean their is obviously no way in hell you want Thornton at LT next to Louis if Castonzo went down but just on Thornton having experience at that position and some athleticism to him (He is fairly mobile for his size)  in a pinch (A game or 2) we would survive with either  John at LT and Reitz at LG or Thornton at LT and Reitz at LG using Doyle or Allen to protect them

 

Either way to me its about getting your 5 best O Linemen out on the field and going from there, I know how crazy that all sounds but again....5 best O Linemen on field is my philosophy

[BrentMc11]

Some totally over reaction in this thread.  Two games,,,,the season is over...Whatever,  Chill out and watch this offense come alive.

 

• AJ, Dorsett, and Moncrief still new to the system.  It takes time. (Moncrief listed do to not playing much last year)
• Luck needs to quit looking at only TY.
• Where is Coby Fleener?
• Screens/bubble passes to Gore and Josh...Varga too.
• penalties/mistakes.

Bottom line is we need to open up the playbook.  We look like we are stuck i the preseason.  Luck has not regressed.  He has not been able to work at game speed with all of the newbies.  Not in sync.  When it comes...and it will, we will be winning as the defense gets healthy.

 

OL:  Reitz at LG as I have said for about 5 years....or more?    Just so everyone knows, I am not giving up,  If anyone is, they do not care about their Colts.  Calling guys 'bums' and such do not help.  Lets watch as the team comes together as a well oiled team again.  (See Seattle 0-2)             !!!!

[NagelHausForge]

So I saw on the injury report that Louis sat out with a shoulder injury... Not sure how he hurt his shoulder as he didn't block anyone Monday night... but anyways...

 

Should he sit out for the game on Sunday who do we think gets the nod at LG?

 

My money is that they stick Thornton back in the lineup for some reason...

 

I would love to see Reitz in there next to AC but we all know that's not going to happen.... Maybe Castanzo thinks Reitz smells bad or dumped his sister or something... Whatever the case I don't think Reitz is the likely candidate to start at LG even though we have all seen that him and AC make a good duo on the left side.

 

Any other thoughts?

[Jay Kirk]

Some totally over reaction in this thread.  Two games,,,,the season is over...Whatever,  Chill out and watch this offense come alive.

 

• AJ, Dorsett, and Moncrief still new to the system.  It takes time. (Moncrief listed do to not playing much last year)
• Luck needs to quit looking at only TY.
• Where is Coby Fleener?
• Screens/bubble passes to Gore and Josh...Varga too.
• penalties/mistakes.

Bottom line is we need to open up the playbook.  We look like we are stuck i the preseason.  Luck has not regressed.  He has not been able to work at game speed with all of the newbies.  Not in sync.  When it comes...and it will, we will be winning as the defense gets healthy.

 

OL:  Reitz at LG as I have said for about 5 years....or more?    Just so everyone knows, I am not giving up,  If anyone is, they do not care about their Colts.  Calling guys 'bums' and such do not help.  Lets watch as the team comes together as a well oiled team again.  (See Seattle 0-2)             !!!!

Im with you the play book must be opened and on Reitz as well. Pep is tying the offense hands. Why were our TEs not targeted ? Let Luck run this at the line , hes smart enough . Now nothing to do with this thread, hats off to the D especially the secondary for not totally collapsing with inexperience.

[BrentMc11]

Im with you the play book must be opened and on Reitz as well. Pep is tying the offense hands. Why were our TEs not targeted ? Let Luck run this at the line , hes smart enough . Now nothing to do with this thread, hats off to the D especially the secondary for not totally collapsing with inexperience.

One thing is...Luck HAS has done a lot of 'kills' at the line of scrimmage.  It is not all about Pep.  Luck needs to watch other receivers...not just TY.

[CoachSmok3]

To me that's why you carry 10 O Linemen, Right now we are carrying 5 Safeties...All healthy...Now I don't know how healthy but they have all played in the first two games rather on special teams or defense, Then bring up Ulrick John if healthy, Also Thornton has played LT in college

 

Now obviously Thornton is not an ideal fit at LT and John may not be ready to back up Castonzo but its not like Reitz is a good option either honestly, I mean their is obviously no way in hell you want Thornton at LT next to Louis if Castonzo went down but just on Thornton having experience at that position and some athleticism to him (He is fairly mobile for his size)  in a pinch (A game or 2) we would survive with either  John at LT and Reitz at LG or Thornton at LT and Reitz at LG using Doyle or Allen to protect them

 

Either way to me its about getting your 5 best O Linemen out on the field and going from there, I know how crazy that all sounds but again....5 best O Linemen on field is my philosophy

 

I absolutely agree that the number of OLine on the active 53 man roster should def be around 10. We are at 9 now, and to play off this agreement...if we had 1 more serviceable/capable body on the roster, moving our puzzle pieces around becomes a much better "risk" than highlight previously.

 

Also agreed that Thornton has a ton of upside focusing solely on his combo of size and athleticism. This is way honestly I believe he should be given another meaningful shot at taking over the LG position. Thornton def could slide out to either tackle spot if we were put in such a position. 1 or 2 games and we could manage, longer than that...not so sure. And that is entirely based on what you highlighted...LT Thornton LG Louis/Reitz....that would not make very many people (Luck) any happier than currently lol. 

 

I believe the reasoning behind the 5 safeties on the active roster is justified by Geathers being in a way a hybrid type DB/LB (at least in the ways we are using him in Dime packages). So if we (*) out Geathers then we have a standard 4 deep Safety line up. have Anderson/Guy truly earned the roster spot solely off special teams play? id argue for Anderson...but harder to fight for Guy (i may be biased i am a big McDonald fan/ but even then subbing McDonald for Guy is the same number of 5). 

 

but i digress...

 

I think our OLine, with time to gel, with be a marked improvement from the first 2 games...but whether in season or off season...adding that 1 missing piece will make a world of difference. lets just hope the value is there when we draft and we finally fix a sore spot in the eyes of all

[Jay Kirk]

One thing is...Luck HAS has done a lot of 'kills' at the line of scrimmage.  It is not all about Pep.  Luck needs to watch other receivers...not just TY.

Agreed Lucks performance left a lot to be desired . The wiffs against the blitz don't help much either . There is some tweeking in personell on the line ,and a lot of execution to clean up.

[Jay Kirk]

Will say other than the fumble Gore looked pretty stout IMO as far as running.

[CoachSmok3]

So I saw on the injury report that Louis sat out with a shoulder injury... Not sure how he hurt his shoulder as he didn't block anyone Monday night... but anyways...

 

Should he sit out for the game on Sunday who do we think gets the nod at LG?

 

My money is that they stick Thornton back in the lineup for some reason...

 

I would love to see Reitz in there next to AC but we all know that's not going to happen.... Maybe Castanzo thinks Reitz smells bad or dumped his sister or something... Whatever the case I don't think Reitz is the likely candidate to start at LG even though we have all seen that him and AC make a good duo on the left side.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

ive been a big supporter of Reitz at LG by AC since Lucks rookie year (and having him stay by AC moving forward from then). but to try and play in the minds of the coaching staff...

 

if we start Reitz at LG, we have pigeonholed him into a role that I believe the coaching staff do not want to play with. We see it often...our heavy unbalanced sets/ goal line sets...

 

should we be being cute with plays like that pass thrown Reitz's way this past Mon? at this point id say no...but... wat if that play works? he was open, what if he scored? Now people arent saying that was "too cute" or a "dumb play"... people are saying "oh man that was crazy!"....but take out trick plays (that Reitz gives you the athleticism and abilities to call)....

 

who are the Colts going to use as the unbalanced OT? Thornton? No. Harrison? No. Good? No.

 

So moving Reitz in to a starting role...you have now taken away your confidence in running said unbalanced formations...

 

people are already screaming we need to open the playbook more and stop just bombing the ball deep...take out the heavy sets, limit to less running options...limit to less heavy sets used (meaning more multiple WR sets...i.e. passing)...now we have even less creativity and balancing options.

 

idk tho...just my thoughts. I would def love to see Reitz be a more prominent component to the starting 5...but i believe that puts this offense in a much more narrow scope of effectiveness.

[BrentMc11]

Agreed Lucks performance left a lot to be desired . The wiffs against the blitz don't help much either . There is some tweeking in personell on the line ,and a lot of execution to clean up.

Louis needs to be replaced....I am not sure Herremans was a great/good signing at this point either.

[Surge89]

Thank you for taking the time to read through my post and offering a very thoughtful response. I would offer my only disagreement first, the drafting of Dorsett. While I can agree with you that imo (our opinion) the selection was a luxury (“possible wasted”) pick for a team that had several other more pressing needs that most def could have been addressed with the same pick. But where I would offer my counter is in the philosophy behind the selection in reference to your stance this was a “backwards mentality to defeating blitzing teams”.- I believe that may not necessarily be true. Again, I believe that a valid philosophy to defeating the blitz is to pressure the defense by stretching the field. But where I absolutely can agree with you on this topic is- when you mentioned stretching the field while also retaining your QBs “safety” check down throw. I do not believe if you are sending 4-5 people in route that you should only send 1 vertical while keeping 3-4 on short routes. I believe you can still find balance and effectiveness with sending 2-3 targets downfield, and leaving a single target in close relation to the QB for a check down.

 

But I also believe that this IS happening currently. Are the TEs staying in to block and not doing delayed releases, or even short routes? Not really too much at all, no. But, a big complaint we have all heard is Luck had Gore/Varga with space in front of them and never looked their way. So while I think the offense has been TOO deep happy thus far, I also believe the check down option has most def still been in place, it has just not been utilized.

 

I agree the OC thus far is leaving A LOT to be desired, the OLine coach has NOT maximized the talent available thus far (I do think as the season progresses, barring injuries, the OLine will show vast improvement by seasons end), changing the QB though? I may agree that Luck has made some horrible choices and throws so far…be he should def not be going anywhere else soon lol.

 

Thank you for offering some good food for thought this morning and partaking in my minds crazy thoughts lol

 

My statement is predicated on the fact that we already had 2 speedsters in Moncrief and Hilton.  Unless you are going to run 3 sluggos then whats the point of another speedster? Even if you are it matters not if no one is running underneath routes or your QB isn't targeting said underneath options, which leads me too...

 

You are completely correct in your 2nd paragraph.  Luck had Fleener flexed often and didn't even look at him.

 

Again you are completely correct.  As this Oline despite what many think has quite a bunch of talent. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying change the QB.  I want to change the QB coach.  that is my issue.  Luck is repeating mistakes instead of making new ones and to me that is a bad sign.