Brady Wins, Deflategate Suspension Nullified

[cdgacoltsfan]

I bet you think the Deflator was trying to lose weight too.

So, when is the deflator back on the Pats payroll?

[Gramz]

I am assuming Tweedle dee and Tweedle dum will now get their jobs back...???

 

Since there was no wrong doing done and all.

[dynasty13]

I bet you think the Deflator was trying to lose weight too.

 

Nope. Not at all.

[amfootball]

Glad to see that the judge followed the finding in the Rice case with respect to this issue of notice.  As now there are two circuits who find that folks needed to be aware of a penalty prior to it being imposed, there is no split in the circuits on this matter and also as there is now two circuits that feel this way not so sure if this concept is going to get reversed.   Nor should it be reversed. 

 

There is simply no harm in following prior actions and disciplines.  If one wants to imposed a harsher disciplines, all one has to do is to is to impose the existing penalty and then thereafter make it be known that any future actions along said lines will be subject to a new penalty X.   

At some point the league and owners need to get together and realize that they are operating above the CBA time and again. And until they fix that the integrity of the game is at serious, serious risk. Two fed judges in just a few months with the same reasoning. That is alarming.

[James]

 

I have read every word of every single thing that has been released regarding this case...

No, you haven't.

[Superman]

Nope. Not at all.

Oh?

Care to expound?

[our_dbs_rock]

I disagree here.  I believe the Super Bowl press conference included a question that was something like:

Reporter: Are you a cheater?

Brady: I don't think I am.

 

Isn't that a bit of a peculiar response?  That's like someone asking me "are you an NFL player?"  There's really only one answer, and that is "no".  To say "I don't think I am" suggests he knows there's something going on

 

You would think an innocent person would also be willing to give any information or materials that would easily clear their name (if you didn't text about deflated footballs, no text would exist), yet request were denied and phones were broken.

[ricker182]

The integrity of the NFL has been compromised.

Now there's doubt in people's minds that the game is being played fairly.

Now everyone just needs to start breaking the rules. There's no repercussions.

Unless you smoke a little pot.

[ricker182]

I don't understand how Goodell's ruling violates the CBA quite honestly.

[cdgacoltsfan]

I am assuming Tweedle dee and Tweedle dum will now get their jobs back...???

 

Since there was no wrong doing done and all.

Im sure Krafty will give them each big raises and a case of Slimfast.

[ViriLudant]

It is an admission of guilt.  Compromising your innocence is admitting guilt.

 

It wasn't the exact same thing. The league didn't determine that Feely was aware of what was going on, and they didn't conclude that he intentionally destroyed evidence to cover up his knowledge or involvement.

Even if the situations were the same, there is never precedent until there is. Just because Feely wasn't suspended doesn't mean the NFL has to ignore what it views as conduct detrimental. That reasoning suggests that any player who is involved in the tampering of game equipment will never face suspension, because Feely wasn't suspended.

The NFL should be able to suspend players for cheating. The players are entitled to a fair process. I dislike that players who clearly did wrong get off with no punishment because of technicalities in the process.

The NFL didn't even investigate if Feely knew!!!!!!

 

THERE is a major difference!

[Superman]

At some point the league and owners need to get together and realize that they are operating above the CBA time and again. And until they fix that the integrity of the game is at serious, serious risk. Two fed judges in just a few months with the same reasoning. That is alarming.

This is silly. Every ruling against the NFL has been on grounds totally separate from the CBA. What has happened is the courts have decided that the CBA doesn't matter. So the players and the union can challenge any league decision, confident that the courts will make their decision without regard for what was collectively bargained. The players didn't really give Goodell any authority, ultimately, since we now know the courts won't recognize it.

[Colts_Fan12]

Can't believe players getting suspended for many games for weed. This * head can actually cheat in a live game and it's ok and is all supposed to go away??

[Yehoodi]

I bring this question to all three of you because I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.  If Brady did nothing wrong, as you all claim, why would he agree to a 1 game suspension?  If you did not commit a crime, would you agree to go to jail on a reduced sentence?  Does that make any sense?

 

"You have to go to jail for 5 years"

"No way, I did nothing wrong"

"Fine, go to jail for 1 year"

"Sure, that's fine"

 

21, I think you need to remember there are two crimes that are on the table here.  One is the act of altering footballs, which Brady maintains he had nothing to do with and did not commit the act.  And two, the act of non cooperation, here not turning over of his cell phone.  And assuming the reports are correct that he offer a single game suspension, he only did so for the second crime and not the first crime.  That is a key. 

 

Effectively Brady is saying "I had nothing to do with the underlying crime and to whatever extent I am responsible for non cooperation I am willing to agree to a one game suspension even though no one has ever been suspension for non cooperation, so I will do the NFL a favor, they have no real right to suspend me, but to get all of this over I will agree to compromise and agree to a one game suspension for non cooperation" 

 

As the judge wanted compromise the above seems reasonable, as the NFL did not comeback with anything close, it showed that Brady was at least trying to extent the olive branch.  Basically agreeing to something the NFL had no right to do.  And to that extent he made a showing to the judge that he was trying to be reasonable.  And as we have found out from the judge's ruling, which is no games, Brady offer was certainly reasonable to the judge.

[MTC]

I am willing to bet that many NFL owners pressured Goodell to appeal as well. 

[amfootball]

Doty said the Goodell is not aware there is a CBA and Berman pretty much said the same thing with his ruling. NFL really needs to do something to where they don't get lambasted time and time again for not following their own CBA ...

[IndyTrav]

There is no integrity, Cheaters win, this is a shame, judge is a liberal/conservative, NFL is rigged, Im gonna quit watching, you can do whatever you want now because inmates rule the asylum.....

 

All these things, and more, have been said in this thread so far.....All because of 0.5psi +/-......my god.....This is what makes people go after each others throats....0.5psi +/-....unreal. 

 

 

 

Lets just play some dang football. 

[ViriLudant]

Yes, he is an attorney from and educated in NYC and served as a director of some advocacy group to save energy (environment).

Its what I said. Like minded people have to seek out other like minded people to get the decision they want when reason and common sense are against them. That's how the world works, especially in certain arenas. You don't really believe that stuff they teach you in school do you?

I believe Brady's attorney's specifically went out of their way to file the case in this judge's jurisdiction, understanding the 1960's and 1970's backwards dogmatic ideology (hates "The Man") that he has projected in his career.His words that have been quoted are a bit hippyish in their hatred for people in power. Dripping with ideology.

Again, once you debrainwash and let yourself understand what is at the root of his type of thinking, you can predict his decision before he himself even knows what its going to be.

Brady's guilty. Anybody with an open mind and common sense knows it. His coming season is a sham...and so is the NFL's.

 

 

The NFL filed this in NY, not the NFLPA!!!!!!  This judge was handpicked by Goodell and Co.!

Man.

[our_dbs_rock]

The integrity of the NFL has been compromised.

Now there's doubt in people's minds that the game is being played fairly.

Now everyone just needs to start breaking the rules. There's no repercussions.

Unless you smoke a little pot.

 

This is the problem with all of this.  It becomes a cost vs benefit for the teams when determining if they should play by the rules. If it cost me X amount to cheat, will I gain or lose revenue.  Right now, it is worthwhile to cheat. 

 

The worse part of the situation is it is a trickle down effect, younger athletes and coaches will look to the 'role models' aka stars.

[Superman]

The NFL didn't even investigate if Feely knew!!!!!!

THERE is a major difference!

How is that an argument for the NFL being in the wrong for investigating Brady and the Pats?

'They didn't investigate him, they shouldn't have investigated me. Then they wouldn't have determined that I had done something wrong.'

I don't get that. It would basically mean that players can be involved in a plan to tamper with equipment and not face any punishment from the league. All because the league didn't investigate Jay Feely.

[Yehoodi]

At some point the league and owners need to get together and realize that they are operating above the CBA time and again. And until they fix that the integrity of the game is at serious, serious risk. Two fed judges in just a few months with the same reasoning. That is alarming.

 

Yah is a joke.  A clown can follow precedent.  It is so easily to just look at the books, and issue a penalty. 

 

The NFL is too rapped up in trying to appease the masses and are issuing things based on emotion and not justice and honor.  As such, they find themselves in the situation they are in, and it completely their own fault.  The NFL felt pumped up because 90% of America was backing them, but our judiciary system is not based on what the masses want but what is just.

[ViriLudant]

I disagree here.  I believe the Super Bowl press conference included a question that was something like:

Reporter: Are you a cheater?

Brady: I don't think I am.

 

Isn't that a bit of a peculiar response?  That's like someone asking me "are you an NFL player?"  There's really only one answer, and that is "no".  To say "I don't think I am" suggests he knows there's something going on

You're forgetting context.

Brady, and everyone at that time, thought that the balls were, according to Mortensen, 2 PSI or more below legal limit.

That's all that Brady and everyone had heard.

So Brady was answering based on THAT information.  He knew he didn't do anything, but he didn't see how a ball could have been that far below.

 

We know now, of course, that it was 100% garbage of a claim, but that's what people were basing their questions on at that time.

[21isSuperman]

21, I think you need to remember there are two crimes that are on the table here.  One is the act of altering footballs, which Brady maintains he had nothing to do with and did not commit the act.  And two, the act of non cooperation, here not turning over of his cell phone.  And assuming the reports are correct that he offer a single game suspension, he only did so for the second crime and not the first crime.  That is a key. 

 

Effectively Brady is saying "I had nothing to do with the underlying crime and to whatever extent I am responsible for non cooperation I am willing to agree to a one game suspension even though no one has ever been suspension for non cooperation, so I will do the NFL a favor, they have no real right to suspend me, but to get all of this over I will agree to compromise and agree to a one game suspension for non cooperation" 

 

As the judge wanted compromise the above seems reasonable, as the NFL did not comeback with anything close, it showed that Brady was at least trying to extent the olive branch.  Basically agreeing to something the NFL had no right to do.  And to that extent he made a showing to the judge that he was trying to be reasonable.  And as we have found out from the judge's ruling, which is no games, Brady offer was certainly reasonable to the judge.

I have my own opinions as to whether or not that makes sense (in reference to Brady's actions, not your description.  Your description makes sense).

[Superman]

Doty said the Goodell is not aware there is a CBA and Berman pretty much said the same thing with his ruling. NFL really needs to do something to where they don't get lambasted time and time again for not following their own CBA ...

Does the CBA not give the commissioner authority in these matters?

It's actually Doty and now Berman who are ripping up the CBA, not Goodell.

[amfootball]

This is the problem with all of this.  It becomes a cost vs benefit for the teams when determining if they should play by the rules. If it cost me X amount to cheat, will I gain or lose revenue.  Right now, it is worthwhile to cheat. 

 

The worse part of the situation is it is a trickle down effect, younger athletes and coaches will look to the 'role models' aka stars.

This is MUCH bigger. It is very concerning to me the mindset of “Hey if we just cooperate with Roger Goodell, we will get a fair hearing and minor discipline at worst.” That all comes from the wrong assumption that if you don’t cheat, you are safe. But that isn’t the case if the arbitrary and bad notice process problems make claims of actual innocence impossible to maintain. Process matters and that is what is on display here and should be of paramount concern to every single fan.

 

[Yehoodi]

It is an admission of guilt.  Compromising your innocence is admitting guilt.

 

Brady was only talking about non cooperation and not deflating footballs, big difference.

 

It is one thing to "admit" you deflated footballs and another thing to "admit" that you did not cooperate as well as you could have.

[Kato]

I believe Brady's attorney's specifically went out of their way to file the case in this judge's jurisdiction, understanding the 1960's and 1970's backwards dogmatic ideology (hates "The Man") that he has projected in his career.His words that have been quoted are a bit hippyish in their hatred for people in power. Dripping with ideology.

 

Um,  The NFL chose this venue/Judge.  Brady/NFLPA wanted Minnesota

[our_dbs_rock]

The NFL filed this in NY, not the NFLPA!!!!!!  This judge was handpicked by Goodell and Co.!

Man.

 

I'm pretty sure the judge wasn't picked, the state was.

[amfootball]

Does the CBA not give the commissioner authority in these matters?

It's actually Doty and now Berman who are ripping up the CBA, not Goodell.

Article 46 does not give him unlimited authority to wield his power outside of the perimeters set in the CBA. In BOTH Peterson and Brady Goodell failed to follow the law of shop in terms of given the players notice that they could be punished for their offenses. In other words they can't make it up as they go. On top, in Brady's case they failed to make Pash, a key witness available at the hearing as well as other relevant notes. Berman had several points for vacating not just one and ALL were violations of the CBA.

[dynasty13]

Oh?

Care to expound?

 

Not really much more to say...I never bought that excuse and I don't think many around these parts did. 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Brady was only talking about non cooperation and not deflating footballs, big difference.

 

It is one thing to "admit" you deflated footballs and another thing to "admit" that you did not cooperate as well as you could have.

 

Since the "non-cooperation" has to do with cheating, there's really not that big of a difference.  Why would you "not cooperate" with clearing your own name?  "Not cooperating" is for people that are guilty and trying to get away with it.

[southwest1]

For any of you who want to read what the judge actually said:

 

http://thesportsesquires.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/National-Football-League-Management-Council-v-National-Football-League-Players-Association.pdf

Thank you VL for the complete transcript regarding Judge Berman's decision for context if nothing else. 

 

Court: "So which of the 4 games [suspension] is attributable to ball tampering & which is attributable to failing to cooperate?" P. 21.

 

Court: "How is [the Steroid Policy] like deflating a football & not cooperating? P.23. The Commissioner can't use "the integrity of the game" as an umbrella tactic to punish any athlete without a clearly specified rule on point as stipulated in the NFL CBA. 

 

Kessler: "Where do you find the policy that says that footballs can't be altered with respect to pressure...in the manual? P.29. 

 

All 3 of this questions illustrate why Brady won today. 1. The NFL can't specify which rule Brady broke in the CBA because it doesn't exist in clear writing, 2. Steroid use & depleted air pressure are not equal violations warranting the same disciplinary action, & 3. A failure to cooperate has been proven whereas validating that Tom lowered PSI levels in game balls himself has not. This ruling will be upheld on appeal IMO. 

 

I'm assuming therefore that the Commissioner standard of "More probable than not" in the Wells Report is now null & void as a legal standard meaning concrete proof is mandated in all NFL disciplinary actions now according to Berman's ruling then. 

[Yehoodi]

I have my own opinions as to whether or not that makes sense (in reference to Brady's actions, not your description.  Your description makes sense).

 

Yes folks are entitled to their own opinions.  I completely agree.  No argument there.   We can differ, fair enough.  .

[ViriLudant]

I'm pretty sure the judge wasn't picked, the state was.

Excellent point, my mistake.  But it certainly wasn't the Minnesota circuit, as Doug tried to say.

[ColtRider]

Hallelujah!

 

NFL 0-5. This is almost as glorious as Feb. 1. Almost.

This is nothing to be proud of. Let me repeat that, this is nothing to proud of. The total lack of respect and undaunting total ness of accepting discipline over the last 40 years or so by society has spilled over into every realm of life, including sports.

Don't like a disciplinary action levied against you in life? Run to the courts. This country is not called the, "Land of the Lawyer!" for nothing. To actually believe that Tom Brady had no knowledge or involvement in DeFlateGate, is not only an insult to intelligent thinking, it borders on the dreams and fantasies of the bewildered insane.

The ruling today by the New York judicial system only validates and completes the ongoing slippage of where this country continues to arrow its moral direction. Right into the heart of collapse. "A house divided, will not stand!"

They say, "Lady Justice is blind". That sure was the appalling case today in New York.

[pgt_rob]

Greg Hardy is now thinking about appealing after this ruling. Might as well right? You can literally get away with cheating as long as you keep your big mouth shut.

[Colts_Fan12]

Greg Hardy is now thinking about appealing after this ruling. Might as well right? You can literally get away with cheating as long as you keep your big mouth shut.

exactly but Gordon can't get away with smoking pot he's out all year long they got everything * backwards

[dgambill]

Glad this is over. Hopefully we can talk about real football now. Everyone has made up their mind on whether Brady was involved in this etc but suspending him 4 games was ridiculous. It didn't affect the ball game at all. IMO the cover up was the bigger story but the making this into a huge story was just plain dumb. That said it kept the NFL in the news all summer so even bad publicity is still better than no publicity. In the end this should have been a fine. I do think they altered the balls....and I'm sure Brady was aware of that....but I don't see much difference from other teams that have done the same. My issues were with the cover up and lying....but then the NFL had its issues on this too. Just both sides looked really bad. Hopefully we get back to watching some great football and having #12 on the field is best for everyone....not having one of the best players in the history of the game playing is no way a positive for the league.

[Gramz]

I understand the elation and celebration on the part of the Pats fans.  ( A Victory to be celebrated)

 

I don't understand it happening here.  I know they have a home forum on which to celebrate.

 

I am disappointed in the ruling.

 

And

 

I trust that everything happens for a reason.

[krunk]

1. The NFL didn't properly inform Brady of the punishment he faced, or even what he was accused of.

2. The NFL didn't let Brady's camp question NFL executive and counsel Jeff Pash at his appeal.

3. The NFL didn't give Brady's side a chance to examine the evidence against him

 

yeah this what jumped out at me. That and the whole steroid comparison.

Goodell is really a flop.

 

Back in the day Rozelle would have called the team in question and told them to knock it off or else instead of all this legal stuff.

 

The actually fine is 25k for the balls IF proven true (plus any discipline if necessary).

 

In light of the ruling it still baffles me the fine on the Patriots Kraft accepted though he now regrets it. My guess was he'd take the hit thinking Goodell would just end it.

 

 

In light of Bradys exhoneration I'm wondering if the Pats have any recourse for the fines and draft picks they lost?