Brady Wins, Deflategate Suspension Nullified

[SOMDColtsfan]

History shows the Patriots have no integrity.Underinflated footballs may have had no bearing on the Colts needing to get better on run defense to take the next step, I get that. But why are players suspended for "off field" issues, having nothing to do with football or outcomes of a game yet Brady walks away clean attempting to actually alter a game and then cover it up? 

[southwest1]

If I was Goodell I would have fined Brady for his role in the deflating and then suspended him for not cooperating with the investigation. Then Tom to get off with a suspension would had to have agreed he was involved. To me this was no different than any other team messing with the balls outside the rules. The real issue imo was the cover up/lying. I never understood the hoopla of this whole thing. I don't like cheating or trying to skirt the rules and thus I understand the organization getting held accountable but to me you got to be consistant with your penalties...if its a fine for one player it should be for another. I also can't wait for football....and football wouldn't be as good without Tom on the field. He is an incredible player and I enjoy watching him play....I think Jimmy could be good someday too but lets be real...Pittsburgh vs NE without Tom vs Ben wouldn't be nearly as quality entertainment.

Nice reply dgb. My only complaint [not with you] is this: Had NE won the AFC Championship Game over INDY by say only 3 points would an alleged air pressure violation matter any more than by virtue of a blowout? No, not really.  I actually wanted to face Brady anyway [No disrespect to Jimmy G BTW] so although the Commissioner lost today, the league is better when Brady is under center facing live pass rusher chaos on any given down.

 

I will always believe Brady lied about his football preferences preparation wise, but that still doesn't change the fact Tom is an elite field general who is lethal every week during the season. If NE fans wore "Free Brady" t-shirts before, what will they wear now as a sign of solidarity? "Lazareth has risen?"  Just kidding! 

[bababooey]

Wow McNary not guilty as well

[Superman]

As a judge he has to consider the merits of the case though. He can't just rule blind on process without understanding the facts which led to the process. And in the end he ruled on process anyways as the NFL royally messed that up.

 

He can consider the merits of the case all he wants, but really, his opinion on those merits isn't really at issue. The issue is the fairness of the process. He's made it about more than that, and that's not really his place.

 

In the past, when a judge found issues with the process, they vacated the decision and sent it back to the appeal process. Even Doty did that with Adrian Peterson. Berman is overruling the NFL on merit, and that's quite a departure. We'll see what the 2nd Circuit says about that, but I get the feeling they'll do what Doty did with Peterson. 

[amfootball]

He can consider the merits of the case all he wants, but really, his opinion on those merits isn't really at issue. The issue is the fairness of the process. He's made it about more than that, and that's not really his place.

 

In the past, when a judge found issues with the process, they vacated the decision and sent it back to the appeal process. Even Doty did that with Adrian Peterson. Berman is overruling the NFL on merit, and that's quite a departure. We'll see what the 2nd Circuit says about that, but I get the feeling they'll do what Doty did with Peterson. 

What part of his ruling was based on merit? All the points that I read were on process.

[dynasty13]

Cant wait to see this next week!

 

[lollygagger8]

Berman's ruling was on process but it was clear to anyone who listening to or read the court hearings that he did not find any evidence of Brady's guilt and Daniel Nash concurred with him.

 

Lol.

 

Also incorrect. Brady worshipers unite!!  

[Jackie Daytona]

Yah sorry thanks.  Was in a hurry and made a typo, thank you.  I have edited my post, thanks.  I need my morning coffee.

Lol no problem brother, I ALWAYS need my morning coffee.....

[lollygagger8]

I personally cannot wait for week 6: 

 

[Superman]

What part of his ruling was based on merit? All the points that I read were on process.

 

Interpreting this case as a rules violation as opposed to deliberate cheating is where the 'law of the shop' judgment comes from.

 

Stating that there is no evidence that Brady was involved is also a judgment on the merits of the case.

[amfootball]

Interpreting this case as a rules violation as opposed to deliberate cheating is where the 'law of the shop' judgment comes from.

 

Stating that there is no evidence that Brady was involved is also a judgment on the merits of the case.

Ah, I gotcha. But that is not his reasoning for vacating and not sending back to appeals. Also, Daniel Pash agreed with Berman that there was no evidence tying Brady to the AFCCG. So it makes sense for him to note that in his 40 page ruling.

[oldunclemark]

Its not over...there will be an appeal,,and it could come later in the year.

For now,, 'Shady' Tom Brady beat the rap

[our_dbs_rock]

Came across this on a Jets message board....

[12dalegend]

I am a Colt fan and am glad he gets to play, everyone knows what really happened but let it go, they have to play a whole season being under the watchful eye of NFL and be scrutinized by other teams, media and the public at large and it probably wonʻt be easy, but if any team can overcome this, itʻs the Patriots....letʻs not throw more wood on the fire theyʻve been punished enough....NOW LETʻS PLAY SOME FOOTBALL!

[Superman]

Ah, I gotcha. But that is not his reasoning for vacating and not sending back to appeals. Also, Daniel Pash agreed with Berman that there was no evidence tying Brady to the AFCCG. So it makes sense for him to note that in his 40 page ruling.

 

It's part of his reason.

 

If it was just the fairness of the appeals process, he would have sent it back like Doty did. He's ruling on merit and process. 

[crazycolt1]

Crazy, Gramz, and others keep ignoring this important point.

No body is ignoring anything. This ruling does not say Brady is innocent. It says the NFL did not have their ducks in order so to say.

[RockThatBlue]

The suspension is gone but the world still knows Brady is guilty. What a shame.

[dw49]

Interpreting this case as a rules violation as opposed to deliberate cheating is where the 'law of the shop' judgment comes from.

 

Stating that there is no evidence that Brady was involved is also a judgment on the merits of the case.

 

 

Yeah... that and pretty much saying that it was no big deal that the balls were deflated is what really irks me. Think back a bit and remember Berman made the remark " If I remember Tom Brady did even better the second half when the balls were reinflated." That's a stamens an * would make. Truthfully I have seen judges making rulings that made you shake your head and IMO , this is one of them. 

 

That said , I thought 1 mill. , 1st and 4th rounder plus 4 games for Brady was too much. I'm not losing any sleep over this and "they" have the right to crow as they ended up right. It took a * that saw this case the same as some beer-bellied NE fan hanging drunk out of the upper deck with no shirt on in January but it is was it is.

[HungarianColtsFan]

NFL appealed the decision:

Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer  4 p4 perccel ezelőttFordítás megtekintése

The NFL has officially filed notice of appeal, case will be sent to the second circuit. Nothing there requesting process be expedited.

 

 

Anyway I'm not surprised about the decision. I wanna see Colts beating Pats on the field. Period.

[Superman]

Yeah... that and pretty much saying that it was no big deal that the balls were deflated is what really irks me. Think back a bit and remember Berman made the remark " If I remember Tom Brady did even better the second half when the balls were reinflated." That's a stamens an * would make. Truthfully I have seen judges making rulings that made you shake your head and IMO , this is one of them. 

 

That said , I thought 1 mill. , 1st and 4th rounder plus 4 games for Brady was too much. I'm not losing any sleep over this and "they" have the right to crow as they ended up right. It took a * that saw this case the same as some beer-bellied NE fan hanging drunk out of the upper deck with no shirt on in January but it is was it is.

 

Yeah, that line of questioning I thought was, well, dumb. Almost like 'if there was no actual advantage, then the cheating doesn't matter.' It's like Pats fans saying "45-7!" every time this comes up. It also ignores the fact that the evidence suggests pretty plainly that this is something that pre-dates the 2014 season entirely.

 

I don't really think the penalty is too much, but it is definitely severe. I said I didn't think Brady would wind up serving a game, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the initial decision.

[crazycolt1]

You make it sound like that train of thought is one reserved for just this side of the argument...

And what one sided argument have you been on?

[Yehoodi]

The NFL messed up on process. Overturn it on that, and really, as other judges have done, including Doty, tell them to go back and do it right. 

 

What I disagree with is Berman's interpretation of the seriousness of the offense being a factor in his decision. That's really not up to him.

 

And the bigger factor here is that it has become abundantly clear that the NFLPA doesn't have to respect the CBA that they agreed to. Whenever they dislike the way the NFL does something, they can go to the courts who will rule independent of the CBA, and then act like they are fighting for the CBA. 'We'll agree to this CBA, but we're going to challenge its merits in court every chance we get.' Smart of them. Not good for the NFL. See Greg Hardy's pending appeal.

 

The NFL not only messed up on the process but most critically messed up on handing down the suspension.  Bottom line, had the NFL just issued a 100K or something fine for Brady, this matter stops with respect to Brady in May.  Stops.  Basically as Farve got a 50K, and not to mentioned no player EVER has been suspended for non cooperation, a fine is the only thing you can hand out in May to Brady.  Regardless of the heinousness of the underlying crime in some folks minds, all you can do is issue a fine for non coop.     

 

And as a side note this was my point about a few threads ago that Brady likely figured, "the heck with it they are not getting my phone and I will just pay the fine, whatever it happens to be."  Bottom line sometime folks will just commit the act (here non coop) and pay the fine later. 

 

The problem here was that the ego of the NFL got all hurt and instead of standing up and doing the right thing with the fine, the NFL, even in light of the recent findings of Bountygate, Rice and Peterson, decide to again, like an arrogant jerk, to step outside what it is allowed to do and try to impose a suspension.  And then to make matter worse later in the year try to shoehorn the suspension as a PED equivalent. 

 

Bottom line the act in question is more akin to an equipment violation.  Heck Brady could walk out week 1 next Thursday, spray sticken on his glove, play with it for a half, hand the glove to the ref at halftime and merely wait for a letter from the NFL the week following for a $8,600 fine.   But yet playing with underinflated balls carries a 4 game suspension, I mean really?   

 

With respect to the NFLPA and its CBA, yes they agreed to the CBA, but they also agreed that the CBA will be administered by the commissioner in a manner that is in compliance with the labor laws.  My reading of the CBA does not include a clause which states "the parties agree that this CBA shall not be governed by labor laws and as such players have no recourse with regards to the latter and any dispute between the two the CBA shall control"  See the little clause is not in the agreement.  And whether some like it or not, the CBA, any powers contained therein, and any actions taken pursuant to the CBA must comply with and are subordinate to labor laws. 

 

And one of the key points is that notice that an act will result in a specific penalty is fundamental to the principles in this country and due process.  And naturally is a part of our labor laws.

 

It is no different if we had a union and management in a lumber yard and it is custom, or by rule, that if one is late for work by 15 mins or less, he shall be fine $100-$200.  If ten guys are late for work and get the appropriate fine, and then one day you and I are late for work, management can not dock us a weeks pay, but merely the 100-200 range.  What the NFL is trying to do is docket Brady a weeks pay.  just as in the simply analogy most would understand that you and I should not be docked a weeks pay, folks can understand Brady should not either, in brady's case is not 100-200 to a weeks pay, but a fine to a suspension.  But is follows the same principle.

 

Bottom line the NFL can VERY EASILY avoid this in the future.  Do not try to dock a weeks pay or a suspension for non coop, just dock the 100-200 dollars and issue a fine for non coop.  If you do that you will not fine yourself in court.  It is the hands of the NFL to avoid going to court.  After losing its 5th case on basically the same principles one would think that the NFL has got the message.   Apparently the NFL has not gotten the message.   All you have to do it to look to what this act carries as a penalty and issue the penalty.  It is simple stuff really.

[DougDew]

The NFL filed this in NY, not the NFLPA!!!!!!  This judge was handpicked by Goodell and Co.!

Man.

Doesn't matter.  Then the NFL should have been smarter than to pick a judge who grew up in NYC and accepted a position as a director of an energy saving group.  The outcome of the case was predetermined when the judge was picked.

 

Based upon the judge's background, anybody could have predicted an anti-business ruling.  Just because the judge foraged for excuses to support his ideological ruling doesn't change anything.  It was predictible.

[ViriLudant]

INCORRECT. TRY ACTUALLY READING FOR A CHANGE.

Judge wasn't ruling on Little Tommie's "claimed" innocence. The Judge was throwing it out based on not giving enough information on the disciplinary actions/procedures.

Except for the judge did mention the lack of evidence during the trial and in his summary.

[drrobert6]

It does suck Brady didn't get suspended, but really 4 games was too long anyway. You can pull a Ray Rice move and get 2 games or deflate a ball and get 4 games. Fact is, the Pat's beat the tar out of us last season, both in the regular season & playoffs. We should beat the best most complete team on the march to the Championship. We SHOULD be able to beat NE with Tom, not a rusty first game back appearance from him. We're not going to get challenged from our division, so the true measure of the Colts season will be the results of the stretch run of NE, New Orleans, Carolina & Denver and that match up with the Steelers. 

[ViriLudant]

Lol.

Also incorrect. Brady worshipers unite!!

Clearly you have read none of the transcript of the trial or of the judges summary.

[amfootball]

It's part of his reason.

 

If it was just the fairness of the appeals process, he would have sent it back like Doty did. He's ruling on merit and process. 

Actually, it's not. He specifically vacates for the following reasons (straight from his ruling):

 

The Court is fully aware of the deference afforded to arbitral decisions, but, nevertheless, concludes that the Award should be vacated. The Award is premised upon several significant legal deficiencies, including (A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (four-game suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to examine one of two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General Counsel Jeff Pash; and © denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness interview notes.

[Superman]

The NFL not only messed up on the process but most critically messed up on handing down the suspension.  Bottom line, had the NFL just issued a 100K or something fine for Brady, this matter stops with respect to Brady in May. Stops.  Basically as Farve got a 50K, and not to mentioned no player EVER has been suspended for non cooperation, a fine is the only thing you can hand out in May to Brady.  Regardless of the heinousness of the underlying crime in some folks minds, all you can do is issue a fine for non coop.

 

No.

 

1) This is not like Brett Favre. Honestly, that's just a really stupid comparison, for various reasons that I think are obvious.

 

2) Brady wasn't suspended only for non cooperation. He was suspended for conduct detrimental.

 

3) It is up to the NFL to determine whether they think Brady was guilty, which they obviously do.

[Superman]

Actually, it's not. He specifically vacates for the following reasons (straight from his ruling):

 

The Court is fully aware of the deference afforded to arbitral decisions, but, nevertheless, concludes that the Award should be vacated. The Award is premised upon several significant legal deficiencies, including (A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (four-game suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to examine one of two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General Counsel Jeff Pash; and © denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness interview notes.

 

Yes it is.

 

Item A is based on the idea that Brady's misconduct is tantamount to a simple rules violation. That is a judgment based on Berman's interpretation of the matter, not process.

[amfootball]

Yeah... that and pretty much saying that it was no big deal that the balls were deflated is what really irks me. Think back a bit and remember Berman made the remark " If I remember Tom Brady did even better the second half when the balls were reinflated." That's a stamens an * would make. Truthfully I have seen judges making rulings that made you shake your head and IMO , this is one of them. 

 

That said , I thought 1 mill. , 1st and 4th rounder plus 4 games for Brady was too much. I'm not losing any sleep over this and "they" have the right to crow as they ended up right. It took a * that saw this case the same as some beer-bellied NE fan hanging drunk out of the upper deck with no shirt on in January but it is was it is.

How about that. The NFL managed to find the only beer bellied NE fan in the NY fed court system that they picked for the proceedings by filing ahead of the PA. Now that is sweet irony.

[amfootball]

Yes it is.

 

Item A is based on the idea that Brady's misconduct is tantamount to a simple rules violation. That is a judgment based on Berman's interpretation of the matter, not process.

The issue is notice. The NFL admitted during the appeals that the players are not given the manual on the discipline that can be issued for this violation. Troy Vincent said himself he was never given the manual when he was a player.

[dw49]

How about that. The NFL managed to find the only beer bellied NE fan in the NY fed court system that they picked for the proceedings by filing ahead of the PA. Now that is sweet irony.

 

 

My understanding was they either filed in NYC or waited for Brady to file in Minn. with Doty . Wasn't it more an either or rather than "handpicking a judge" as some herts are saying ? I could be wrong as I really didnt spend a huge part of my life reading through all the literature surrounding every step of this process. 

[amfootball]

My understanding was they either filed in NYC or waited for Brady to file in Minn. with Doty . Wasn't it more an either or rather than "handpicking a judge" as some herts are saying ? I could be wrong as I really didnt spend a huge part of my life reading through all the literature surrounding every step of this process. 

The NFL filed first in NY and then the PA filed in MN but the case was not assigned to Doty. The MN judge then sent the case back to NY citing that NY was the more appropriate venue given the league offices are located there. The NFL picked that district precisely because they have a high rate of upholding appeal decisions ... and they still got their hat handed to them. Only Roger.

[dw49]

The NFL filed first in NY and then the PA filed in MN but the case was not assigned to Doty. The MN judge then sent the case back to NY citing that NY was the more appropriate venue given the league offices are located there. The NFL picked that district precisely because they have a high rate of upholding appeal decisions ... and they still got their hat handed to them. Only Roger.

 

 

You're getting back to being silly. It's as I said .. The NFL filed first to keep the case away from Doty. It's not like they "handpicked " Berman like some of you are saying. Yeah.. they may have picked the district but that certainly doesn't mean they chose Berman as some have inferred. 

[Superman]

The issue is notice. The NFL admitted during the appeals that the players are not given the manual on the discipline that can be issued for this violation. Troy Vincent said himself he was never given the manual when he was a player.

 

That all falls under Berman's interpretation of the matter as a rules violation.

[amfootball]

You're getting back to being silly. It's as I said .. The NFL filed first to keep the case away from Doty. It's not like they "handpicked " Berman like some of you are saying. Yeah.. they may have picked the district but that certainly doesn't mean they chose Berman as some have inferred. 

I never said they picked Berman. They picked the district precisely because it has a high rate for upholding appeals when a CBA is involved. And it came back to bite them. The MN judge was conservative and may have been more favorable to them but we will never know. That part is very sweet.

[Superman]

You're getting back to being silly. It's as I said .. The NFL filed first to keep the case away from Doty. It's not like they "handpicked " Berman like some of you are saying. Yeah.. they may have picked the district but that certainly doesn't mean they chose Berman as some have inferred. 

 

They picked the district because of jurisdiction. It was logical, unlike the NFLPA filing in MN to get Doty.

 

Ironically, Doty wouldn't have taken the case, and the other MN judge seems less like an NFLPA sympathizer than Doty. Doesn't mean he would have ruled different.

[amfootball]

That all falls under Berman's interpretation of the matter as a rules violation.

Huh? The NFL never argued that it was not a rules violation. They talked a lot about the integrity of the game to which Berman said every violation falls under integrity of the game. If you followed the hearings, it was clear that Berman was trying to understand what Brady was being punished for. He said the Wells report had to do with only the AFCCG game and that the suspensions was based on that game. Nash agreed. He then asked where the evidence was that Brady had done anything in that game to tell the ball boys to deflate the balls. Nash said there was no evidence. That is when they got into the whole discussion of the 4 game punishment and how Goodell went from Wells "generally aware" statement to what he said in the appeal award which was that Brady directed a scheme to deflate footballs and compared to PEDs. So the NFL kept moving the line so to speak on what they were punishing Brady for and then of course at the end of the day there was never any notice. Berman cites all of this in his ruling but vacated on the notice and the appeal process.

[southwest1]

Do you think it is over? I sure hope so. I think many people are tired of hearing and reading about this. I don't like the decision and it does not change my mind about Brady's involvement in deflating footballs; however, it is what it is. If this means an end to Deflategate, I am pleased.

I wonder if McNally and Jastremski will get their jobs back...

Amen to that NFLfan. I am not interested in guilt, innocence, or contempt anymore. It's all water under the bridge now. Yes, I would suspect both Mr. Jastremski & Mr. McNally get their Patriot positions back without incident or any further delay. 

 

Had that been the Saints, we would have lost our QB and coach the entire season, and probably even more personnel. The league waited 3 solid years to punish us over Bounty gate and when they did, they didn't just stop at taking the coach away. We lost our GM, and several key defensive players. 

 

When the Patriots get caught cheating though, red handed multiple times (spy gate included) they get a slap on the wrist, get to bring it to court and walk away free. 

 

At this point I am convinced that team could get away with murder, and it would be celebrated. 

 

I have never hated an AFC team as much as I hate these snobs in New England. 

 

I did ponder what Sean Payton must be thinking right now Bogie especially Gregg Williams as Berman's decision came down today. They must be in complete disbelief now. Your club has a right to be frustrated Bogie. I sure would be upset if I was Saints management. The question is who are they more angry at? Themselves for capitulating to Goodell without a fight or ownership for not keeping closer tabs on what his employees/subordinates were actually doing? 

Is it over? Is it really, truly, over?

What I wanna know is this: Does this decision open the flood gates on punching holes in CBA regulations as they pertain to player discipline issues now? It sure feels like it. I wonder if any owner will criticize Goodell publicly now excluding Robert Kraft of course. 

[dw49]

I never said they picked Berman. They picked the district precisely because it has a high rate for upholding appeals when a CBA is involved. And it came back to bite them. The MN judge was conservative and may have been more favorable to them but we will never know. That part is very sweet.

 

 

I didn't say you , I inferred that it would be a Pat fan. Usually I'm pretty accurate when I say something. To no surprise it was Virdundant...I think on page 6 if you want to check me out. Post 218.

 

 

The NFL filed this in NY, not the NFLPA!!!!!!  This judge was handpicked by Goodell and Co.!

Man.