Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[Dark Superman]

Mewhort got beat by a very solid OLB. There is nothing wrong with that. I think he will only continue to grow, but the true concern is depth at the tackle position and the quality of talent as the guard spots.

 

I don't understand why someone like Donald Thomas, who hasn't even practiced yet, is still here? We could take that $3 million and use it elsewhere.

 

I'd rather pay a little more for a guy such as Evan Mathis who is one heck of a player. He will upgrade our offensive line immensely. It's win or bust.. why not take the risk? We gave Luck the weapons on the outside. Now he needs the protection and running game.

[esmort]

OK, show me your wares and see if we buy?  Who as far as O lineman would you have drafted on the lines last few drafts and where, and what players we have now would be on other teams because of your O line draft choices?  I'm willing to listen.

 

2012 - Fleener ---> Cordy Glenn or Osemele(+ picks for moving down)

2013 - Werner ---> Warford( + 3rd + 4th + 7th we could have gotten the Min. deal that the NE did (maybe more))

2014 - Trent Richardson ---> Joel Bitonio

2015 - Not gambling at least the 7th on calling Collin's bluff when we knew we had so many ??? at RT was a bad move.  If he sits out we lost a 7th round pick ... big deal ... I am betting he could have been talked into signing. 

 

I am sure I am missing some other possibilities

[throwing BBZ]

Based on what I've seen in preseason thus far, the offensive line is a complete mess.  Now, what I want to know is:

 

Why the hell didn't we sign La'el Collins?  Or Incognito??  Or Mathis who's still available?!?

 

Yes, we got Herremans, who thus far has looked highly suspect.  Everyone else named above is much better.  Collins more than anyone bothers me.  A first round, possibly top 5 pick is available in FA and we show minimal interest?  Grigson should have thrown in the kitchen sink to get him to sign here.  Instead, the rich (best O line in the league in Dallas) get richer.

 

Grigson needs to be held accountable if the line still stinks come week 1.  This is his 4th year.  Enough is enough.

 

 You really don`t follow the NFL very closely do you? at the kitchen sink, and minimal interest thingy. Good grief!

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I don't get Grigson. We let Cherilus walk.. Fine, I get it. He wasn't worth the price tag.

 

But why is Donald Thomas STILL here? Jack Mewhort was our best guard and he played pretty well as a rookie. We should of did more to either snatch another Guard to replace Mewhort, or replace Cherilus.

 

The offensive line is a mess.. as it has been since Luck arrived.

 

You can have all the running backs, receivers and even an elite QB on your side, but without an offensive line.. none of that matters.

 

I think Cherilus' playing days are over.  The injury he had for a guy his size with his job description is not something I think he can overcome.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I don't get Grigson. We let Cherilus walk.. Fine, I get it. He wasn't worth the price tag.

 

But why is Donald Thomas STILL here? Jack Mewhort was our best guard and he played pretty well as a rookie. We should of did more to either snatch another Guard to replace Mewhort, or replace Cherilus.

 

The offensive line is a mess.. as it has been since Luck arrived.

 

You can have all the running backs, receivers and even an elite QB on your side, but without an offensive line.. none of that matters.

 

I think Cherilus' playing days are over.  The injury he had for a guy his size with his job description is not something I think he can overcome.

[#12.]

It's two games in to the pre-season. It's too soon for you any anyone else to know if our line is "crap" or not.

The flip side to that is: they've been terrible in pass protection for three years, and through two preseason games, it's impossible to argue they look improved.

[austriancolt]

Don't get me wrong Grigson is a good GM and he did a lot of things right but how he handles the Offensive Line is just something I don't understand. Offensive Line is a problem since year. Yet again they try to fix it with some late round players or average veterans or relying on injury prone players. Cherilus struggled last year and was very expensive I understand that they got rid of him but not going after a quality young talent early in the draft was again a huge mistake. Mewhort and Castonzo played good last year on the left side and I think Mewhort will develop no doubt about that but still we lack quality on the Offensive Line and depth? That's just somethin we don't have on the Oline. Some solid players like Reitz that you can bring in for a few downs ok but nobody who can fill in for a few games or a potential successor for years to come...

[dgambill]

Well he wasn't a very good one so........I'm sensing a trend. 

 

I support Grigs for what it's worth, but O-line seems a strange unit for him to not be pouring more effort (and money) into. One of our better O-lineman isn't even his pick (AC).

I agree...especially with the a Grigs supporter....he did try...he just hasn't succeeded....he made Cherilus the highest paid RT in football and he brought in Thomas but injuries kinda derailed what could be a really solid OL. That all said and done...and not to get too far out in the weeds because we know hindsight is 20/20 I was not really big on paying all that money to Cherilus. I have always been much more of a fan of moving Constanzo to RT (it also would have saved us money in re-signing him because the rates for a RT are cheaper) and bringing in a stud LT a couple years ago. That said there are few that hit the market so its hard to blame him in not doing that. Luck is so big and solid that he can take a ton of hits but you would think you would want to protect your franchise qb a little more a priority. He has tried...he just hasn't been very lucky....perhaps we had the answers here and they just got hurt. Hard to say.

[Colts_Fan12]

2012 - Fleener ---> Cordy Glenn or Osemele(+ picks for moving down)

2013 - Werner ---> Warford( + 3rd + 4th + 7th we could have gotten the Min. deal that the NE did (maybe more))

2014 - Trent Richardson ---> Joel Bitonio

2015 - Not gambling at least the 7th on calling Collin's bluff when we knew we had so many ??? at RT was a bad move. If he sits out we lost a 7th round pick ... big deal ... I am betting he could have been talked into signing.

I am sure I am missing some other possibilities

Bryan Stork C in NE now also there has been plenty of FA since Grigson has got here we could have got too

[Superman]

I always admire how great Hindsight GMs are. You guys make it look soooo easy.

[Colts_Fan12]

I always admire how great Hindsight GMs are. You guys make it look soooo easy.

sure I'll agree stork is hindsight but Larry Woford was a highly ranked guard and could have traded down and took him and this year Donovan Smith was too

[Jason_]

sure I'll agree stork is hindsight but Larry Woford was a highly ranked guard and could have traded down and took him and this year Donovan Smith was too

 

And what team was it that offered a competitive package that would have allowed us to trade down and get proper value for the pick we were trading out of so that we could select Warford?

[Superman]

sure I'll agree stork is hindsight but Larry Woford was a highly ranked guard and could have traded down and took him and this year Donovan Smith was too

 

Are we gonna wait on Donovan Smith? We should... And even Stork isn't even all that good. He's decent, but we didn't have a 4th, so you'd have to give up Moncrief.

 

As for Warford, he was considered a third rounder, which is where he was drafted. He's obviously outplayed his draft status, which is awesome for him and the team that drafted him. But we really didn't have a shot at him. We shouldn't have drafted Werner, but trading down probably wouldn't have been a good idea, given the good players that were on the board. By the time we picked again, Warford was gone.

 

You can go through any draft and put together a dream team of picks based on how they turned out. That's kind of absurd, though.

[Colts_Fan12]

Are we gonna wait on Donovan Smith? We should... And even Stork isn't even all that good. He's decent, but we didn't have a 4th, so you'd have to give up Moncrief.

As for Warford, he was considered a third rounder, which is where he was drafted. He's obviously outplayed his draft status, which is awesome for him and the team that drafted him. But we really didn't have a shot at him. We shouldn't have drafted Werner, but trading down probably wouldn't have been a good idea, given the good players that were on the board. By the time we picked again, Warford was gone.

You can go through any draft and put together a dream team of picks based on how they turned out. That's kind of absurd, though.

I wouldn't have been upset at all if we traded down into the second and took Worford some even had him mocked to us in a trade back

I wouldn't have been upset with Smith this year right at 29 at least we would have tried a top pick on the Oline for once besides mewhort they have all been late 3rds and back

[dudley dawson]

Another Grigson blunder I forgot to mention: AQ Shipley

 

AQ is now the starting center for Arizona.  And we let him go so Grigson can play musical (center) chairs again. 

[dudley dawson]

I appreciate that you're new,  but this whole thread is one big spectacular FAIL for you.

 

Lots of people here throw out crazy talk....  makes for weird, sometimes even fun discussions.

 

But they almost never stick.      Sooner or later the truth comes out and the crazy talk goes away.

 

See Superman's answer to one of your latest conspiracy theories....

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  Grigson hasn't put together a good O line in 4 years and has ignored various opportunities to improve it.  If me pointing this out to you is a "fail", so be it, but I only speak what I see on the field.

[Cynjin]

I always admire how great Hindsight GMs are. You guys make it look soooo easy.

That is why NFL teams only pay minimum wage for GMs. As is evident on this board, everyone knows which players are going to be a boom or a bust, what trades are good or bad and another team is always willing to trade with you when you want to trade down. Evaluating football players is an innate ability that every red blooded American possesses.

[Jason_]

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  Grigson hasn't put together a good O line in 4 years and has ignored various opportunities to improve it.  If me pointing this out to you is a "fail", so be it, but I only speak what I see on the field.

 

To the bolded...that simply isn't true. 

[OffensivelyPC]

2012 - Fleener ---> Cordy Glenn or Osemele(+ picks for moving down)

2013 - Werner ---> Warford( + 3rd + 4th + 7th we could have gotten the Min. deal that the NE did (maybe more))

2014 - Trent Richardson ---> Joel Bitonio

2015 - Not gambling at least the 7th on calling Collin's bluff when we knew we had so many ??? at RT was a bad move.  If he sits out we lost a 7th round pick ... big deal ... I am betting he could have been talked into signing. 

 

I am sure I am missing some other possibilities

I never bought Grigson's reasoning on not drafting Collins.  I'm not saying that he's lying or anything about why we didn't draft him.  I just disagreed.  If we draft Collins and call his bluff, he's ours.  When you got the 2nd to last pick in the draft, that to me is worth the risk.  You don't really get much low risk/high reward than that.  At bare minimum, if he doesn't want to play for us, we can use him as trade bait (because if there is a team he would play for, he'd sign a contract as a condition of the trade).  If he never plays, that's his decision, but he doesn't play for anyone else either at least for that year.  Of course, we couldn't draft him the following year, but at that point, we know he would rather sit out a year than not sign with us, so there's no chance we draft him the subsequent year anyway.  Bottom line is, worst case scenario, we waste the 255th pick (or whatever it was), which is the realistic outcome of such a low pick in the first place.  Best case scenario, we get a potential starting OT or something in return to put us in at least the same position as we were in for next year's draft.  To me, I'm drafting him, but alas.  That's not how it went down.

[K-148]

sure I'll agree stork is hindsight but Larry Woford was a highly ranked guard and could have traded down and took him and this year Donovan Smith was too

Jonathan Cooper was a highly ranked guard also. Andy Levitre was a highly ranked FA OG. The rest is history.

[dudley dawson]

To the bolded...that simply isn't true. 

Signing Mathis or Incognito wouldn't have improved it?  Keeping Shipley wouldn't have improved it?

[K-148]

Signing Mathis or Incognito wouldn't have improved it?  Keeping Shipley wouldn't have improved it?

What Shipley has improved in Baltimore? What Levitre has improved in Tennesssee? Why Mathis is still a FA?

[NewColtsFan]

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  Grigson hasn't put together a good O line in 4 years and has ignored various opportunities to improve it.  If me pointing this out to you is a "fail", so be it, but I only speak what I see on the field.

 

Dudley.....   I'm sorry my first e-mail to you was so harsh.    But look at the responses you got.    I'm wincing for you, they're all so harsh.

 

Why didn't we draft La'el Collins?     All 32 teams didn't draft him.     He was radio-active.

 

Why didn't we throw the sink at him?     Because the NFL rules limit what you can "throw at him"...   He picked Dallas because (A) he wanted to join the best OL in football and (B) it's pretty close to home.     We were on his final short list of teams to meet when he decided for Dallas.

 

Why didn't we sign Richie Ingonito?      Because he's been a clubhouse cancer everywhere he's been dating back to high school and multiple colleges.    Irsay/Grigson/Pagano pride themselves on having a great locker-room.     Grigson basically said,  no more knuckleheads.

 

Why didn't we sign Evan Mathis?        In case you haven't noticed,  Mathis is still a free agent.     No NFL team has signed him yet.     That tells you something isn't right.     Likely wanting too much money and too many years for a 33-year old guard.

 

There are always logical answers to questions like these.     You may not like the answers,  but the answers are out there.

[JPFolks]

How do you want him held accountable? The only real way to do that is to fire him and I doubt Irsay is going to fire Grigson over the line after week one given grigson's total body of work since he came here.

Is the line something to be concerned about? Sure. Is it worth firing the GM who took them from 2-14 to the AFC Title game in three years? Probably not.

Though I don't disagree with your general point (not firing Grigson) I don't think he had nearly as much to do with anything as you credit him for.   Take out Luck and the Colts are a 4-5 win team at most, if that.  Luck deserves about 90% of the credit and the other players 9% and Grigson 1%.  The coaches I do not give any credit to.  Though I like their schemes, they haven't been able to actually make them work.  It's nearly all Luck.  Without him I strongly doubt we'd have sniffed .500 no matter who else they found to play QB with this line and D.  

[dudley dawson]

Dudley.....   I'm sorry my first e-mail to you was so harsh.    But look at the responses you got.    I'm wincing for you, they're all so harsh.

 

Why didn't we draft La'el Collins?     All 32 teams didn't draft him.     He was radio-active.

 

Why didn't we throw the sink at him?     Because the NFL rules limit what you can "throw at him"...   He picked Dallas because (A) he wanted to join the best OL in football and (B) it's pretty close to home.     We were on his final short list of teams to meet when he decided for Dallas.

 

Why didn't we sign Richie Ingonito?      Because he's been a clubhouse cancer everywhere he's been dating back to high school and multiple colleges.    Irsay/Grigson/Pagano pride themselves on having a great locker-room.     Grigson basically said,  no more knuckleheads.

 

Why didn't we sign Evan Mathis?        In case you haven't noticed,  Mathis is still a free agent.     No NFL team has signed him yet.     That tells you something isn't right.     Likely wanting too much money and too many years for a 33-year old guard.

 

There are always logical answers to questions like these.     You may not like the answers,  but the answers are out there.

Plenty of people agree with me, unless you didn't bother reading.

[NewColtsFan]

Plenty of people agree with me, unless you didn't bother reading.

 

Yes,  Dudley.....   you're new here.    

 

The same young juvenile, knee jerk reaction posters who say the same thing over and over and over again.....   they all agree with you.     You've got that crowd.

 

The smart posters....   those who have perspective,  and knowledge, and who understand that you don't judge anything by two games of a pre-season,   who know we were 0-4 last year in the pre-season and went on to win 13 games on the way to the AFC Championship game....     those posters were NOT kind to you.

 

And I couldn't help but notice,  that I answered all your questions and you simply ignored that.

 

Don't double-down on a bad hand.     Either thank the people who explained why Grigson didn't do the things you wanted,  or back away.     But once you've had your questions answered and explained,  doubling-down on a bad hand doesn't help you.

 

Insisting you're right when it's been explained why you're not doesn't help you.

 

You're new here.    Learn the lay of the land here.     It will help you greatly.

 

Just some food for thought........

[Buck Showalter]

Plenty of people agree with me, unless you didn't bother reading.

 

Plenty of people eat Moon Pies & Pepsi's, but that don't make 'em any better for you...

[Mr.Debonair]

Everyone keeps saying ppl are freaking out over the Line's preseason play, but it's actually bigger than that. Our O-Line play has been average to below average for the past few years and there doesn't seem to be signs of improvement. The preseason play just hasn't done anything to ease concerns carrying over from before

[ColtsBlueFL]

I never bought Grigson's reasoning on not drafting Collins.  I'm not saying that he's lying or anything about why we didn't draft him.  I just disagreed.  If we draft Collins and call his bluff, he's ours.  When you got the 2nd to last pick in the draft, that to me is worth the risk.  You don't really get much low risk/high reward than that.  At bare minimum, if he doesn't want to play for us, we can use him as trade bait (because if there is a team he would play for, he'd sign a contract as a condition of the trade).  If he never plays, that's his decision, but he doesn't play for anyone else either at least for that year.  Of course, we couldn't draft him the following year, but at that point, we know he would rather sit out a year than not sign with us, so there's no chance we draft him the subsequent year anyway.  Bottom line is, worst case scenario, we waste the 255th pick (or whatever it was), which is the realistic outcome of such a low pick in the first place.  Best case scenario, we get a potential starting OT or something in return to put us in at least the same position as we were in for next year's draft.  To me, I'm drafting him, but alas.  That's not how it went down.

 

I remember being OK with 'throwing away' a 7th on him.  But there's no question, teams/coaches/GM's value any and all draft picks highly, even more so than the average fan.  Even the late rounders. The agent polluted the draft pool with his threat to withdrawal after round 3.  Not a single GM/Team 'wasted' their 7th rounder on him then.  Not a single one.

[Superman]

I never bought Grigson's reasoning on not drafting Collins.  I'm not saying that he's lying or anything about why we didn't draft him.  I just disagreed.  If we draft Collins and call his bluff, he's ours.  When you got the 2nd to last pick in the draft, that to me is worth the risk.  You don't really get much low risk/high reward than that.  At bare minimum, if he doesn't want to play for us, we can use him as trade bait (because if there is a team he would play for, he'd sign a contract as a condition of the trade).  If he never plays, that's his decision, but he doesn't play for anyone else either at least for that year.  Of course, we couldn't draft him the following year, but at that point, we know he would rather sit out a year than not sign with us, so there's no chance we draft him the subsequent year anyway.  Bottom line is, worst case scenario, we waste the 255th pick (or whatever it was), which is the realistic outcome of such a low pick in the first place.  Best case scenario, we get a potential starting OT or something in return to put us in at least the same position as we were in for next year's draft.  To me, I'm drafting him, but alas.  That's not how it went down.

 

I think that's a much easier decision to make when you're not actually responsible for the decision. If you draft Collins, even at #255, and he gets indicted the next week, it's a bad look. The owner of the franchise was arrested and suspended a year ago. The NFL just went through a big PR mess last season. The guy was being questioned in connection with the murder of a pregnant woman.

 

And at the end of the day, all 32 teams passed on him. They all bought his agents' bluff. They were all concerned about his situation and the possibility of a future indictment (and in fact, his contract has stipulations pertaining to that). And as soon as the draft was done, they all called to try to sign him. 

 

I agree, I think we should have just drafted him in the 7th. But I get why they didn't, and it's hard to fault them for it. 

[dudley dawson]

Yes,  Dudley.....   you're new here.    

 

The same young juvenile, knee jerk reaction posters who say the same thing over and over and over again.....   they all agree with you.     You've got that crowd.

 

The smart posters....   those who have perspective,  and knowledge, and who understand that you don't judge anything by two games of a pre-season,   who know we were 0-4 last year in the pre-season and went on to win 13 games on the way to the AFC Championship game....     those posters were NOT kind to you.

 

And I couldn't help but notice,  that I answered all your questions and you simply ignored that.

 

Don't double-down on a bad hand.     Either thank the people who explained why Grigson didn't do the things you wanted,  or back away.     But once you've had your questions answered and explained,  doubling-down on a bad hand doesn't help you.

 

Insisting you're right when it's been explained why you're not doesn't help you.

 

You're new here.    Learn the lay of the land here.     It will help you greatly.

 

Just some food for thought........

You haven't "answered" any questions, just offered your opinion like everybody else.  I appreicate you throwing in your two cents, agree or disagree, just like I do everyone else.

[Buck Showalter]

You haven't "answered" any questions, just offered your opinion like everybody else.  I appreicate you throwing in your two cents, agree or disagree, just like I do everyone else.

The answers are obvious,

 

Grigson is some type of "Pin-Head", or a "Hammer Head" or "Knuckle Head", or some type of no good, down-right "Pumpkin'-Head",  who is too busy drinkin' Pepsi's & eatin Moon-Pies to do his job...

 

 

obviously...

[GoColts8818]

Plenty of people eat Moon Pies & Pepsi's, but that don't make 'em any better for you...

mmmmh moon pie...

[NewColtsFan]

You haven't "answered" any questions, just offered your opinion like everybody else.  I appreicate you throwing in your two cents, agree or disagree, just like I do everyone else.

 

Well....   I offered facts.    I'm sorry you think those were opinions -- they're not.

 

I offered facts about Collins,  about Incognito, about Mathis....     those were facts.

 

I offered facts about our '14 winless pre-season record.

 

If you'd like to cling your opinion in the face of opposing facts,  that is entirely your choice.   

[theanarchist]

the line was pretty good back then.  saturday and glen were among the best at what they did

Ya, they were pretty good in the regular season. Pats still found a way to pressure manning in the playoffs and take away our run game, until 2006

[jabbanobadda]

mmmmh moon pie...

I don't know what a moon pie is but it sound delicious.

[aaron11]

Ya, they were pretty good in the regular season. Pats still found a way to pressure manning in the playoffs and take away our run game, until 2006

i guess you are right, but i remember laughing a little when when Edgerrin James said he wasnt very good at dealing with cold weather

[Cynjin]

I don't know what a moon pie is but it sound delicious.

You don't know a Moon Pie is? Marshmallowy Chocolatey goodness. Well you are either 12 or not from this country.

[jabbanobadda]

You don't know a Moon Pie is? Marshmallowy Chocolatey goodness. Well you are either 12 or not from this country.

0-2

[BOTT]

I never bought Grigson's reasoning on not drafting Collins.  I'm not saying that he's lying or anything about why we didn't draft him.  I just disagreed.  If we draft Collins and call his bluff, he's ours.  When you got the 2nd to last pick in the draft, that to me is worth the risk.  You don't really get much low risk/high reward than that.  At bare minimum, if he doesn't want to play for us, we can use him as trade bait (because if there is a team he would play for, he'd sign a contract as a condition of the trade).  If he never plays, that's his decision, but he doesn't play for anyone else either at least for that year.  Of course, we couldn't draft him the following year, but at that point, we know he would rather sit out a year than not sign with us, so there's no chance we draft him the subsequent year anyway.  Bottom line is, worst case scenario, we waste the 255th pick (or whatever it was), which is the realistic outcome of such a low pick in the first place.  Best case scenario, we get a potential starting OT or something in return to put us in at least the same position as we were in for next year's draft.  To me, I'm drafting him, but alas.  That's not how it went down.

I always assumed it was the owners who put the word out not to draft Collins. Some GM's would draft a serial killer if he could play.