Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[Superman]

Marino is the perfect example of a QB who carried a team for yrs

 

Carried them where? The Dolphins missed the playoffs a lot with Marino. From '86-89, no playoffs, and then it was pretty much every other year after that.

[BOTT]

Carried them where? The Dolphins missed the playoffs a lot with Marino. From '86-89, no playoffs, and then it was pretty much every other year after that.

To a little game called the SB. And making the playoffs that many times with that roster was pretty impressive.

[Superman]

To a little game called the SB. And making the playoffs that many times with that roster was pretty impressive.

 

They went to the SB in Year 2. What about the following 15 years? Just 8 more playoff appearances. Basically every other year.

 

Marino is a perfect example of why it's necessary to have a good roster around your QB. Good coaches, too. One of the greatest QBs of all time, yet they were basically a hit and miss playoff team during his prime. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

our present gm has had several years to fix our main problems, poor front 7 on d, and o-line, they have gotten worse during his regime , time for an upgrade at the gm position, if we are to be superbowl bound, hoodie can fix his problem spots in 1 season, that's what a good gm does

[BOTT]

They went to the SB in Year 2. What about the following 15 years? Just 8 more playoff appearances. Basically every other year.

 

Marino is a perfect example of why it's necessary to have a good roster around your QB. Good coaches, too. One of the greatest QBs of all time, yet they were basically a hit and miss playoff team during his prime.

I wasn't debating the need for a good roster...that's obvious. But it still doesn't take away the fact Marino carried that much further than it ever deserved to go. Although in the salary cap era, It seems having a QB is even more important and tied to a team's success.

[esmort]

It's not a point to hold Grigs accountable for bad decisions. It's a point to realize he is no different than any other GM. I don't know the exact percentage of picks and players brought in and any given team but finding great players out of those is not as high a percentage as you might think. As long as the Colts continue to make progress there is no reason to not defend Grigs. Has he made some bad moves? Of coarse he has but not to the point where I feel the need to have an attitude about him in a negative light. I know the shape the Colts were in when he took the job. The Colts have not regressed. Matter of fact the have went farther along every season since Grigs has been here.

 

Hows do you not hold Grigson accountable for bad decisions?? That's ridiculous ... His decisions both good and bad should be evaluated and he should get props for the good ones and held accountable for the bad, just like players and coaches. 

 

A. Luck, our situation, and the playoff situations played a bigger role in our progress than Grigson.  I used to have a very high opinion of Grigson he lost a little in my eyes every year; now I believe we would currently be in a similar situation under most any average competent GM.  

 

This year will be the deciding factor for me as to whether he goes back to above average or becomes a liability that needs replaced.

[BOTT]

Hows do you not hold Grigson accountable for bad decisions?? That's ridiculous ... His decisions both good and bad should be evaluated and he should get props for the good ones and held accountable for the bad, just like players and coaches. 

 

A. Luck, our situation, and how the playoff situations played a bigger role in our progress than Grigson.  I used to have a very high opinion of Grigson he lost a little in my eyes every year; now I believe we would currently be in a similar situation under most any average competent GM.  

 

This year will be the deciding factor for me as to whether he goes back to above average or becomes a liability that needs replaced.

He just admitted Grigson was average lol

[COLTS449]

Luck deserves the credit for our success, or at least most of it.  95% Luck, 5% Grigson/Pagano/whomever else.

 

Yeah seriously. Our GM opening was set up for anyone to succeed. When you inherit a QB like Andrew Luck as soon as you take over I don't care who you are, you can succeed. The thing is this. We could be in even better shape than we are with some better decision making. But yeah dude any GM could have succeeded the last few years with Andrew Luck. And I'm not all against Grigs or nothing. But his approach to fixing the offensive line has really upset me. I mean there comes a time when and if your plan hasn't worked to just buy the solution. And by that I mean signing a couple beast free agents. He keeps sticking to a plan that hasn't worked. I mean he's probably expecting a guy like Hugh Thornton to break out this year again when we could have signed Mathis and been set. For a former O-Lineman he sure has a bad eye for talent there.

[BOTT]

Yeah seriously. Our GM opening was set up for anyone to succeed. When you inherit a QB like Andrew Luck as soon as you take over I don't care who you are, you can succeed. The thing is this. We could be in even better shape than we are with some better decision making. But yeah dude any GM could have succeeded the last few years with Andrew Luck. And I'm not all against Grigs or nothing. But his approach to fixing the offensive line has really upset me. I mean there comes a time when and if your plan hasn't worked to just buy the solution. And by that I mean signing a couple beast free agents. He keeps sticking to a plan that hasn't worked. I mean he's probably expecting a guy like Hugh Thornton to break out this year again when we could have signed Mathis and been set. For a former O-Lineman he sure has a bad eye for talent there.

I would have settled for a couple solid pros

[Superman]

our present gm has had several years to fix our main problems, poor front 7 on d, and o-line, they have gotten worse during his regime , time for an upgrade at the gm position, if we are to be superbowl bound

 

Yeah, he should have signed Jairus Byrd for $10m/year, Alex Mack for $9m/year, Andy Levitre for $8m/year, Alterraun Verner for $7m/year, sign Paul Kruger for $8m/year, drafted Tank Carridine in the 1st round in 2013, and in 2014 drafted Yawin Smallwood in the 2nd round, Dion Bailey in the 3rd round, and so on...

[OLD FAN MAN]

Yeah, he should have signed Jairus Byrd for $10m/year, Alex Mack for $9m/year, Andy Levitre for $8m/year, Alterraun Verner for $7m/year, sign Paul Kruger for $8m/year, drafted Tank Carridine in the 1st round in 2013, and in 2014 drafted Yawin Smallwood in the 2nd round, Dion Bailey in the 3rd round, and so on...

a good judge of talent would have improved our trouble spots without the high paychecks, his high paid free agents are gone now, didn't work for us, he gave big checks to average talent

[Buck Showalter]

You really believe people want him fired for one bad move or you just throwing out a false argument for giggles?

Ha, i do like to make some ridiculous posts in response to others who make ridiculous posts, guilty as charged, but i think you got my point...

What i do think is it is still preseason, & there are lots of people complaining about Grigson & the job he is doing as a GM prior to the first snap of the guys 4th season running the team, a team that was a game away from a SB just his 3rd year in...

Im sure there are 26-27 other fanbases that wished they had it s-o-o-o bad...

Guess the bellyaching just gets old, bunch of spoiled fans think they have a clue what goes on down on 56th street...

[Superman]

a good judge of talent would have improved our trouble spots without the high paychecks, his high paid free agents are gone now, didn't work for us, he gave big checks to average talent

 

Didn't you once say you'd trade all your draft picks for veteran players?

[jabbanobadda]

Didn't you once say you'd trade all your draft picks for veteran players?

Building teams through the draft is overrated.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Didn't you once say you'd trade all your draft picks for veteran players?

yes I would, but not just any veteran, a gm has to have the ability to recognize talent at a good price like the great hoodie does, even though I don't like hoodie he has the ability to get above average talent and stay in cap as a good gm should

[jabbanobadda]

yes I would, but not just any veteran, a gm has to have the ability to recognize talent at a good price like the great hoodie does, even though I don't like hoodie he has the ability to get above average talent and stay in cap as a good gm should

So how and where do we get one of these hoodies? Is there a hoodie store that sells at wholesale?

Also, the great goodie doesn't trade draft picks for vets, in fact, it's the other way around. Dude stock piles draft picks.

[crazycolt1]

Hows do you not hold Grigson accountable for bad decisions?? That's ridiculous ... His decisions both good and bad should be evaluated and he should get props for the good ones and held accountable for the bad, just like players and coaches. 

 

A. Luck, our situation, and the playoff situations played a bigger role in our progress than Grigson.  I used to have a very high opinion of Grigson he lost a little in my eyes every year; now I believe we would currently be in a similar situation under most any average competent GM.  

 

This year will be the deciding factor for me as to whether he goes back to above average or becomes a liability that needs replaced.

Played a bigger role in our progress? Jeez, Grigson is the one along with his staff who brought all the players in but for the 4 or 5 in including 2 kickers. I really think you are trying to make an argument just for the sake of arguments. Luck would have never made it this far had it not been for the players on the team now. Luck is great but he did not make a winner out of the Colts by himself. My example was Marino. He had all the talent a QB could want but yet he never had a team that won a super bowl. As great as Manning was as a Colt how many years did it take to win a super bowl? And may I add that was with the great HOF GM Polian.  Why? Because a QB does not do it alone. Grigson IS the one who is responsible for putting the players on this team that has helped Luck be as successful as he is. Every team in the NFL has it's weaknesses and strengths. There have not been but one undefeated season in the history of the NFL. Ask any GM or coach in the league and they will all tell you they are aware of their weaknesses. Now you are ready to kick Grigs to the curb because he hasn't hit a home run with all of his efforts?  Yes I could be better but on the other hand it could be a lot worse with someone else as a GM. There are only around 16 above average GMs in the league and Grigson is one of them no matter what you think.

[GoColts8818]

Yeah seriously. Our GM opening was set up for anyone to succeed. When you inherit a QB like Andrew Luck as soon as you take over I don't care who you are, you can succeed. The thing is this. We could be in even better shape than we are with some better decision making. But yeah dude any GM could have succeeded the last few years with Andrew Luck. And I'm not all against Grigs or nothing. But his approach to fixing the offensive line has really upset me. I mean there comes a time when and if your plan hasn't worked to just buy the solution. And by that I mean signing a couple beast free agents. He keeps sticking to a plan that hasn't worked. I mean he's probably expecting a guy like Hugh Thornton to break out this year again when we could have signed Mathis and been set. For a former O-Lineman he sure has a bad eye for talent there.

First of all he didn't inherit Andrew Luck.  When he was hired Andrew Luck had not been drafted yet.  Yes Irsay made the call on what to do with Manning but if you truly believe Irsay is the one who sat down and broke down film and went and watched Luck and RG3 when trying to decide between the two you are mistaken.  Irsay did use to do that when he was the GM and has admitted himself he wasn't good at it which is why he pulled himself out of the role and started hiring GMs.  I am sure Irsay was involved in the process but it was probably going over information gathered from Grigson and his team which is exactly what Irsay hired him to do.  Despite what some think it was not a no brainer pick there were several people who honestly thought RG3 should be the top pick. Even if the Colts were leaning towards Luck they would have been dumb not to do homework on Luck and RG3 and make the most informed decision they could make.  It's the GM's job to make sure that homework gets done.  So if people want to criticize Grigson when he makes poor draft picks then you have to give him credit when he makes good ones, yes even Andrew Luck.  That's truly looking at the whole body of work, not just tossing the Luck pick out because it really hurts the argument that Grigson doesn't know what he's doing in the draft. 

 

As I used to ask people when they said Polian got no credit for drafting Manning, had the Colts taking Leaf, or in the case RG3 and not Manning or in this case Luck whose fault would it have been?  If you are going to blame the GM if he makes the wrong choice you have to give him credit when makes the right choice.

 

As for the line I think we all agree that they could play better and could be better.  I think we can all agree Grigson has had misses on the o-line and he needs to do a better job in that area.  However, when the original poster says Grigson needs to be held accountable if the line isn't fixed that seems to suggest that the GM needs to be fired if the o-line isn't fixed as that's really the only way he can be held accountable.  I think that's where people are taking issue.  Yes the o-line should be better than it is now but just because Grigson hasn't done the best job in that area doesn't mean he has failed in every other aspect of his job and should be shown the door.

 

Honestly what he inherited was an aging 2-14 team in deep trouble with the salary cap.  What he did was put together enough talent that turned things around much faster than anyone expected and has taken a clear step forward every year under him where it counts the most, the post-season.  Has he had his mistakes during that time?  Yes he has.  However, NO GM is perfect, they ALL make mistakes.  So to sit here and cherry pick his mistakes and then try to disqualify his successes because they don't support the narrative that Grigson needs to be fired isn't a fair view of how things have been under him. 

[GoColts8818]

They went to the SB in Year 2. What about the following 15 years? Just 8 more playoff appearances. Basically every other year.

 

Marino is a perfect example of why it's necessary to have a good roster around your QB. Good coaches, too. One of the greatest QBs of all time, yet they were basically a hit and miss playoff team during his prime. 

If anything Marino is the argument a QB alone can only take you so far.  He even had the advantage of being paired with maybe the greatest coach of all time, and if not the greatest he's top five all time. Yet they got a A Super Bowl during that whole time and lost.  So based on Marino one would have to conclude it takes more than just a great QB and a great coach to win in this league. 

[esmort]

Played a bigger role in our progress? Jeez, Grigson is the one along with his staff who brought all the players in but for the 4 or 5 in including 2 kickers. I really think you are trying to make an argument just for the sake of arguments. Luck would have never made it this far had it not been for the players on the team now. Luck is great but he did not make a winner out of the Colts by himself. My example was Marino. He had all the talent a QB could want but yet he never had a team that won a super bowl. As great as Manning was as a Colt how many years did it take to win a super bowl? And may I add that was with the great HOF GM Polian.  Why? Because a QB does not do it alone. Grigson IS the one who is responsible for putting the players on this team that has helped Luck be as successful as he is. Every team in the NFL has it's weaknesses and strengths. There have not been but one undefeated season in the history of the NFL. Ask any GM or coach in the league and they will all tell you they are aware of their weaknesses. Now you are ready to kick Grigs to the curb because he hasn't hit a home run with all of his efforts?  Yes I could be better but on the other hand it could be a lot worse with someone else as a GM. There are only around 16 above average GMs in the league and Grigson is one of them no matter what you think.

 

16th out of 32 ... That's mediocre I will agree with that.  you yourself even say "yes it could be better" ... so why settle for mediocrity? 

 

You mean the he only had the 4 or 5 best players on the team outside of Luck left .... Any competent GM could have likely surrounded Luck with the rest of the pieces that would have achieved similar results.  He has made some good moves, some average moves, and many very bad moves.

 

Other than V. Davis and TY Hilton he hasn't done anything to write home about; he inherited the best O-Lineman and OLB on the team and has not been able to add a player of equal (or even close) talent to either line in 4 years. Most everyone else he brought in save 2 or 3(plus the 2 I already mentioned) were JAGs or worse. Maybe a couple from this draft class turn into something ... that's why I said this will be what pushes me one way or the other on my opinion.

 

A QB may not be able to do it by himself, but with a couple other good players they can sure carry a lot of the load and cover up a lot of bad decisions.  You bring up great QBs who have not won Superbowls ... and we haven't yet either, so that argument can work against you as well ... I could say if Grigson doesn't show that he can acquire talent in the trenches he will doom Luck to the same fate as Manning. 

 

I agree every GM has his weaknesses and up to this point Grigson's happens to be judging OL and DL talent.

 

Never have I said fire him or kick him to the curb, but if OL and DL look bad again (and I hope they turn out to be great) than I think it needs to be an option on the table after this season ... though I am sure it won't be; Pagano will be the sacrificial lamb and Grigson will get the last year of his contract to attempt to keep his head off the chopping block. 

[esmort]

First of all he didn't inherit Andrew Luck.  When he was hired Andrew Luck had not been drafted yet.  Yes Irsay made the call on what to do with Manning but if you truly believe Irsay is the one who sat down and broke down film and went and watched Luck and RG3 when trying to decide between the two you are mistaken....

 

 

We were taking Luck no matter who was hired.  The only way RG3 was ever coming to Indy is if Luck had some catastrophic injury.  I don't know why you continue to peddle this idea that Irsay hadn't already made this decision when he decided to release Manning ... It's delusional.

[GoColts8818]

We were taking Luck no matter who was hired.  The only way RG3 was ever coming to Indy is if Luck had some catastrophic injury.  I don't know why you continue to peddle this idea that Irsay hadn't already made this decision when he decided to release Manning ... It's delusional.

Link that has Grigson or Irsay saying that?  Other wise it's just your opinion.  Like I said even if the Colts were leaning towards Luck they would have been fools not to do the homework on the two QBs they could have taken and made the most informed decision they could have. Several very creditable people thought they should have taken RG3 with the pick.  There is no way the Colts didn't gather as much information as they could have about both players and while I would agree it was probably Luck's spot to lose I think they gave an open minded look at both players. 

[Buck Showalter]

We were taking Luck no matter who was hired. The only way RG3 was ever coming to Indy is if Luck had some catastrophic injury. I don't know why you continue to peddle this idea that Irsay hadn't already made this decision when he decided to release Manning ... It's delusional.

Well if Irsay would've hired Skip Bayless as the GM maybe he would've drafted Bobert...

[crazycolt1]

16th out of 32 ... That's mediocre I will agree with that.  you yourself even say "yes it could be better" ... so why settle for mediocrity? 

 

You mean the he only had the 4 or 5 best players on the team outside of Luck left .... Any competent GM could have likely surrounded Luck with the rest of the pieces that would have achieved similar results.  He has made some good moves, some average moves, and many very bad moves.

 

Other than V. Davis and TY Hilton he hasn't done anything to write home about; he inherited the best O-Lineman and OLB on the team and has not been able to add a player of equal (or even close) talent to either line in 4 years. Most everyone else he brought in save 2 or 3(plus the 2 I already mentioned) were JAGs or worse. Maybe a couple from this draft class turn into something ... that's why I said this will be what pushes me one way or the other on my opinion.

 

A QB may not be able to do it by himself, but with a couple other good players they can sure carry a lot of the load and cover up a lot of bad decisions.  You bring up great QBs who have not won Superbowls ... and we haven't yet either, so that argument can work against you as well ... I could say if Grigson doesn't show that he can acquire talent in the trenches he will doom Luck to the same fate as Manning. 

 

I agree every GM has his weaknesses and up to this point Grigson's happens to be judging OL and DL talent.

 

Never have I said fire him or kick him to the curb, but if OL and DL look bad again (and I hope they turn out to be great) than I think it needs to be an option on the table after this season ... though I am sure it won't be; Pagano will be the sacrificial lamb and Grigson will get the last year of his contract to attempt to keep his head off the chopping block. 

So just snap your fingers and all pro players just appear? Don't kick him to the curb, just put his head on a chopping block? The 4th year has yet to be played and it seems you are going to pre judge this season before the 1st game is even played. The QB comment was made in regards to you comment about Luck and it being him who has made the wins happen like he was the only player on the offensive side of the ball. IMO you are going to be disappointed no matter how this team works out. Irsay is not going to fire Grigson anytime soon. You have made you opinion known as I have. There is no longer a need to keep this going as we have both said what was on our mind. We will just have to agree to disagree on Grigson and the job he has done.

[esmort]

Link that has Grigson or Irsay saying that?  Other wise it's just your opinion.  Like I said even if the Colts were leaning towards Luck they would have been fools not to do the homework on the two QBs they could have taken and made the most informed decision they could have. Several very creditable people thought they should have taken RG3 with the pick.  There is no way the Colts didn't gather as much information as they could have about both players and while I would agree it was probably Luck's spot to lose I think they gave an open minded look at both players. 

 

I don't need it spelled out to know what was obvious to most fans and everyone else connected to the NFL knows (except maybe a couple crackpots in the media).  You don't always need a smoking gun or a body to know someone was murdered. Irsay had made these decisions before he ever started cleaning house and knew who the replacement was going to be before he ever released Manning.  We were doing a lot more than "leaning" toward Luck ... we may have did our due diligence on RG3, but he was always only the back up plan. 

[esmort]

So just snap your fingers and all pro players just appear? Don't kick him to the curb, just put his head on a chopping block? The 4th year has yet to be played and it seems you are going to pre judge this season before the 1st game is even played. The QB comment was made in regards to you comment about Luck and it being him who has made the wins happen like he was the only player on the offensive side of the ball. IMO you are going to be disappointed no matter how this team works out. Irsay is not going to fire Grigson anytime soon. You have made you opinion known as I have. There is no longer a need to keep this going as we have both said what was on our mind. We will just have to agree to disagree on Grigson and the job he has done.

 

No, I said decide after this year ... and I hope both lines play great ..... but, if they look as bad as last year someone needs to held accountable, and that someone is Grigson. 

[GoColts8818]

I don't need it spelled out to know what was obvious to most fans and everyone else connected to the NFL knows (except maybe a couple crackpots in the media).  You don't always need a smoking gun or a body to know someone was murdered. Irsay had made these decisions before he ever started cleaning house and knew who the replacement was going to be before he ever released Manning.  We were doing a lot more than "leaning" toward Luck ... we may have did our due diligence on RG3, but he was always only the back up plan. 

Tony Dungy was one of those out there who said he would have taken RG3 number one over all.  Is he a crackpot in the media? 

 

It's also common sense if you are about to pick the guy who is going to replace Peyton Manning as the cornerstone of your franchise and who you frankly cut Peyton Manning to make room for you don't do it just based off people in the media going well Andrew Luck is clearly the best QB that has been in the draft since John Elway.  You do your homework.  If the Colts didn't do their homework on Luck and RG3 before making that final decision they are fools.  Someone had to do that homework and that falls at the feet of the General Manager. 

[Superman]

Building teams through the draft is overrated.

 

Must be. Someone tells those dummies in Seattle, New England, Baltimore, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Dallas that they're doing it wrong.

 

(It's ironic seeing who liked your post.)

[crazycolt1]

We were taking Luck no matter who was hired.  The only way RG3 was ever coming to Indy is if Luck had some catastrophic injury.  I don't know why you continue to peddle this idea that Irsay hadn't already made this decision when he decided to release Manning ... It's delusional.

In your opinion it is delusional. If you think that RG3 was not thought of and intense debate about both, in my opinion you are the one delusional. It would not have been out of the question for the Colts to have taken RG3. There was a turn in what teams were looking at as far as the QB position was concerned the year that Luck was drafted. Kaepernick, Wilson and Newton along with RG3 were thought to be the future of what QBs were going to become with the read options till the defenses figured out how to defend it.

[Superman]

yes I would, but not just any veteran, a gm has to have the ability to recognize talent at a good price like the great hoodie does, even though I don't like hoodie he has the ability to get above average talent and stay in cap as a good gm should

 

That was your chance to say you were just playing about the trading picks for vets thing. You blew it.

[crazycolt1]

I don't need it spelled out to know what was obvious to most fans and everyone else connected to the NFL knows (except maybe a couple crackpots in the media).  You don't always need a smoking gun or a body to know someone was murdered. Irsay had made these decisions before he ever started cleaning house and knew who the replacement was going to be before he ever released Manning.  We were doing a lot more than "leaning" toward Luck ... we may have did our due diligence on RG3, but he was always only the back up plan. 

So I didn't know you knew Irsay so personal to be able to tell us all exactly what was on his mind. You could have told us before now?

[esmort]

Tony Dungy was one of those out there who said he would have taken RG3 number one over all.  Is he a crackpot in the media? 

 

It's also common sense if you are about to pick the guy who is going to replace Peyton Manning as the cornerstone of your franchise and who you frankly cut Peyton Manning to make room for you don't do it just based off people in the media going well Andrew Luck is clearly the best QB that has been in the draft since John Elway.  You do your homework.  If the Colts didn't do their homework on Luck and RG3 before making that final decision they are fools.  Someone had to do that homework and that falls at the feet of the General Manager. 

 

Wouldn't call Dungy a crack pot, but I don't think that highly of him/his opinions as a media analyst. 

 

It wasn't just the media ... pretty much everyone associated with football knew Luck was the real deal ... RG3 was a flash in the pan media hype ... who like I said I am sure we looked at for the sake of due diligence, but it was really only to confirm the decision that was already 99.9% made.  Even if Grigson was the one who did the due diligence homework he was not really making any decisions. 

[Superman]

No, I said decide after this year ... and I hope both lines play great ..... but, if they look as bad as last year someone needs to held accountable, and that someone is Grigson. 

 

I'm close to where you are. I'm not as down on what he's done so far; to me, it's really just a bad 2013 offseason (Hughes, Werner, Richardson, Landry, Cherilus; and even the good players got hurt, like Thomas, Toler, Ballard, etc.) The rest of the time, I think he's been pretty good. Not great, not the best, not perfect, but I like a lot of what he's done. I think he was deserving of the Exec award in 2012.

 

But there's a difference between tearing down a broken roster to scotch-tape together a playoff contender, and building and sustaining a perennial Super Bowl contender. The contractor you hire to quick-flip your rental property might not be the right guy to remodel your dream home. I think Grigson did a pretty good job with what he was given. Whether he's the right guy to run this operation going forward is undetermined. 

 

I think learning from the mistakes of 2013 is critical. I think he has, based on what he's said and done since then. The question is whether he can draft well enough to keep restocking the shelves. I don't agree with Dustin's criticism about drafted defensive players, but it is true that Grigson hasn't drafted any defensive playmakers so far (maybe Newsome; no comment on the 2015 class yet). Like you said, if this team isn't performing at the level they are expected to after four offseasons, then my tune on Grigson (and Pagano) will be different. I think that's part of why Irsay hasn't made the big commitment to Pagano yet. And Grigson has a 5th year option, if reports are true.

 

I'm fine with holding these guys to high expectations, especially at this point. I disagree with undermining all the positives and hindsight nitpicking all the proven negatives.

[Gavin]

16th out of 32 ... That's mediocre I will agree with that.  you yourself even say "yes it could be better" ... so why settle for mediocrity? 

 

You mean the he only had the 4 or 5 best players on the team outside of Luck left .... Any competent GM could have likely surrounded Luck with the rest of the pieces that would have achieved similar results.  He has made some good moves, some average moves, and many very bad moves.

 

Other than V. Davis and TY Hilton he hasn't done anything to write home about; he inherited the best O-Lineman and OLB on the team and has not been able to add a player of equal (or even close) talent to either line in 4 years. Most everyone else he brought in save 2 or 3(plus the 2 I already mentioned) were JAGs or worse. Maybe a couple from this draft class turn into something ... that's why I said this will be what pushes me one way or the other on my opinion.

 

A QB may not be able to do it by himself, but with a couple other good players they can sure carry a lot of the load and cover up a lot of bad decisions.  You bring up great QBs who have not won Superbowls ... and we haven't yet either, so that argument can work against you as well ... I could say if Grigson doesn't show that he can acquire talent in the trenches he will doom Luck to the same fate as Manning. 

 

I agree every GM has his weaknesses and up to this point Grigson's happens to be judging OL and DL talent.

 

Never have I said fire him or kick him to the curb, but if OL and DL look bad again (and I hope they turn out to be great) than I think it needs to be an option on the table after this season ... though I am sure it won't be; Pagano will be the sacrificial lamb and Grigson will get the last year of his contract to attempt to keep his head off the chopping block. 

"That's mediocre I will agree with that.  you yourself even say "yes it could be better" ... so why settle for mediocrity?"

 

Ryan Tannehill and Miami Dolphins record is average...mediocre....He literally has 2 less losses then wins and mediocre production

 

That's what mediocrity is, Not bad at all but mediocre. Mediocrity is not getting to the AFC Championship game which we did in year 3...despite getting thoroughly outcoached and played we still got there, Players just have to execute when in position to make plays. Colt defensive players were right on the ball vs the Patriots many times but just tackled like they were slathered in butter or completely whiffed. Just like players had to step up on defense our SB year our players do now as well though. We did not have a loaded roster then. It took Peyton and the Colts 5 years to reach the AFC Championship game

 

However I do agree Grigsons eye for O Line talent is simply not very good right now...maybe ever. It has to improve, I was critical of his eye for O Line talent from the beginning and got chastised by a few for it

[esmort]

In your opinion it is delusional. If you think that RG3 was not thought of and intense debate about both, in my opinion you are the one delusional. It would not have been out of the question for the Colts to have taken RG3. There was a turn in what teams were looking at as far as the QB position was concerned the year that Luck was drafted. Kaepernick, Wilson and Newton along with RG3 were thought to be the future of what QBs were going to become with the read options till the defenses figured out how to defend it.

 

 

I can't believe you 2 actually believe there was an intense debate ... other than due diligence it was always Luck .. don't buy into the media hype.

 

So I didn't know you knew Irsay so personal to be able to tell us all exactly what was on his mind. You could have told us before now?

 

I don't know him personally, I know enough to know that Irsay was a smart enough business man to have a plan in place way before RG3 was even seriously in the picture, and I don't think he was dumb enough to buy into the crap the media was selling.  The same crap they tried to recycle with Manziel, except fewer fell for it the second time. 

[GoColts8818]

Wouldn't call Dungy a crack pot, but I don't think that highly of him/his opinions as a media analyst. 

 

It wasn't just the media ... pretty much everyone associated with football knew Luck was the real deal ... RG3 was a flash in the pan media hype ... who like I said I am sure we looked at for the sake of due diligence, but it was really only to confirm the decision that was already 99.9% made.  Even if Grigson was the one who did the due diligence homework he was not really making any decisions. 

You still do the homework.  That's not the type of decision you make based on what others say.  You do your homework and make your own decision.  Again, had the Colts drafted RG3 and not Luck whose fault would it have been?  If people are going to blame Grigson if he would have made the wrong choice he gets the credit when he makes the right one, no matter how much of a no brainer you think it might have been. 

[esmort]

I'm close to where you are. I'm not as down on what he's done so far; to me, it's really just a bad 2013 offseason (Hughes, Werner, Richardson, Landry, Cherilus; and even the good players got hurt, like Thomas, Toler, Ballard, etc.) The rest of the time, I think he's been pretty good. Not great, not the best, not perfect, but I like a lot of what he's done. I think he was deserving of the Exec award in 2012.

 

But there's a difference between tearing down a broken roster to scotch-tape together a playoff contender, and building and sustaining a perennial Super Bowl contender. The contractor you hire to quick-flip your rental property might not be the right guy to remodel your dream home. I think Grigson did a pretty good job with what he was given. Whether he's the right guy to run this operation going forward is undetermined. 

 

I think learning from the mistakes of 2013 is critical. I think he has, based on what he's said and done since then. The question is whether he can draft well enough to keep restocking the shelves. I don't agree with Dustin's criticism about drafted defensive players, but it is true that Grigson hasn't drafted any defensive playmakers so far (maybe Newsome; no comment on the 2015 class yet). Like you said, if this team isn't performing at the level they are expected to after four offseasons, then my tune on Grigson (and Pagano) will be different. I think that's part of why Irsay hasn't made the big commitment to Pagano yet. And Grigson has a 5th year option, if reports are true.

 

I'm fine with holding these guys to high expectations, especially at this point. I disagree with undermining all the positives and hindsight nitpicking all the proven negatives.

 

I agree and even listed some of the positives, but I think his negatives have almost caught up with his positives at this point.  To push the scales back the the other way he needs at the minimum the OL to come together both inside and right side, someone to step up at NT, and a solid pass rush from some combination of Mathis, Cole, and Newton (although from what little we seen Walden may surprise and come out and make some noise... which surprisingly was a Grigson acquisition a lot of people hate, that I never really had a problem with).  I know they looked to be testing the run game in pre-season and I am not worried about W-L ... but even taking that into account the OL looked like it had a long way to go ... and I didn't see anyone really step up and look consistently dominant at NT. 

[esmort]

You still do the homework.  That's not the type of decision you make based on what others say.  You do your homework and make your own decision.  Again, had the Colts drafted RG3 and not Luck whose fault would it have been?  If people are going to blame Grigson if he would have made the wrong choice he gets the credit when he makes the right one, no matter how much of a no brainer you think it might have been. 

 

I would have blamed Irsay ... because I think he realized he had become complacent and let the Polians have too much control, and in his "cleaning house"/"righting the ship" mindset right or wrong he was going to decide the direction of his franchise. 

[crazycolt1]

I would have blamed Irsay ... because I think he realized he had become complacent and let the Polians have too much control, and in his "cleaning house"/"righting the ship" mindset right or wrong he was going to decide the direction of his franchise. 

What I see is your opinion, not fact.  We all have our different opinions on what might have happened or what we think happened but the facts remain the same. No one really knows for sure. Irsay does have a history of letting the people he hired do their jobs without much interference. We can all say drafting Luck was a no brainer after the fact. Even for those who said it before does not automatically tell us what was on Irsay's mind. Before Polian was hired Irsay did make some questionable moves and complete bone head hires. There were quite a few draft bust. Matter of fact the Colts have 3 or 4 of the worst 10 draft bust in history. I have no knowledge of how long you been a Colt fan but I have been one since Bert Jones was their QB quite a few years before coming to Indy. I was a huge fan of both Baltimore's teams in the NFL and MLB. I watched the Hoosier Dome built piece by piece as I worked at South and Senate Streets for 10 years. Little did I know the Colts were going to move to Indy at the time. Maybe through out the years I have learned to appreciate the Colts under Jim rather than Bob. Till you know what Bob Irsay was and the difference between father and son you cant understand  the whole Colt picture. Jim was not always as keen as owner as he is now. Things for the Colts have been pretty good for the last 20 years or so but as a long time Colt fan those lean years still linger and will never be forgotten. Maybe in my older age I have become a little mellower but the fan in me still burns. There are a small amount of NFL teams who have had the privilege of having two back to back GMs who bring the excitement that the Colts have had. A normal rebuild takes five years to rebuild. Grigson did it his first year. You say that I give Grigson a pass? Maybe I do but he has earned it. Grigsons Colts have accomplished more in their first three years than any team I can recall in the history of the NFL. When you look at the bigger picture maybe you can see that a lack of one position on the Colts is not a concern to go bonkers. I have read that winning spoils you and you become compliant. Maybe that is truer than anyone one of us would like to admit.

[BleedBlu8792]

funny they all have good to great defenses

 

What's even funnier is that those teams, except for Seattle, are pretty much