Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[crazycolt1]

any GM that drafted luck would have looked good. he won more games for us then we should have with the D we have had since he's been here. if it weren't for his mobility and great size he would have been injured by our garbage line since he's been here too. I don't care how many games we have won none of those have came because of the D he has put together or cause of a good run game. since we can't create holes cause like said the line is garbage. you take luck away and give Grigson another QB like say Joe Flacco talent wise and we don't win half the games we have won with the rosters we have had they are just average idk how that's hard to see.

If you think Luck won all those games by himself then I  question your ability to assess football.

[OffensivelyPC]

LOL

I actually spent 10 or 15 minutes looking around on the website to see if there wasn't anything I didn't already know.  I didn't know there was 3 different hyphen-type marks.  Just thought it was always the hyphen and the dash.

[crazycolt1]

I agree he had his work cut out for him when he took over and did a great job rebuilding many parts of the roster, but you are exaggerating a bit with the bolded statement you keep using ... although only 4 or 5 may remain there were more pieces than that when he got here.

 

When he arrived in addition to the jags the roster included:

 

Reggie Wayne

Robert Mathis

Anthony Castonzo

Dwight Freeney

Jerry Hughes

Pierre Garcon

Joe Reitz

Pat McAfee

Adam Veneteri

Antoine Bethea

 

So he had multiple future HOF players, some good players, as well as some other usable jags; the fact that he decided not to pay (I agree not paying Garcon) some and didn't effectively utilize others doesn't mean they weren't here.  He also walked into the #1 draft pick in the year Luck came out, and had all of that years high draft picks, as well as 3 compensatory picks.  So like I said he did inherit a lot of problems many of which he did a good job fixing, but the situation he was walking into isn't quite as dire as you are making it out either. I would guess there were other names on the potential GM list (as well as many who weren't on the list) that probably would have been able to achieve similar results with the what Grigson had to work with had he not taken the job. 

You have yet to give me any GMs name that has accomplished what he has done. Just your opinion that there is one out there. Fact. So taking over a team that went 2-14 and had a 39 million dollar dead cap space is not what you call dire? Get real. If you thought the Colts would have had the turnaround they had you are dreaming.

[Colts_Fan12]

If you think Luck won all those games by himself then I question your ability to assess football.

like I said put a QB that not near elite like Luck and the roster is average

[Colts_Fan12]

You're being so sensational.

well I'm not the only one who thinks it. at least other know the roster is average and the picks have mostly been bad to average players.

[Jason_]

well I'm not the only one who thinks it. at least other know the roster is average and the picks have mostly been bad to average players.

 

there's more than one scientologist.  Just because someone else believes the same thing you do doesn't mean it's correct.

[GoColts8818]

like I said put a QB that not near elite like Luck and the roster is average

and you can say that about just about any team in the league that's built around a franchise QB. Even the Seahawks take Russel Wilson away and you have the Houston Texans. A team that was 9-7 last year, just about average. Still how many games do the Packers win without Rodgers? What do the Broncos do without Peyton? Heck people think if you take away the defending Champs franchise QB for four games they will start 1-3. Truth is if you have a franchise QB you pay him so much you are expecting him to cover up other flaws on your roster and you aren't going to survive being without him for an extended period of time. It's why teams that don't have one try really hard to get one because they are a difference maker. I know the Pats over came it one year but that was an exception to what you see to most teams if they lose their franchise QB for a season.

No one is going to argue Luck isn't the Colts best player and that he's the biggest on the field reason for the Colts success since he got here. However, he is not the Colts only good player. They have other talented players and Grigson brought almost all of them here, that's why people give Grigson credit for the Colts success too. Again, just about everyone who is saying that also agrees he hasn't been perfect. He's made mistakes but it's not out of the norm for a GM to make mistakes. However, overall, he's done a good job and it's shown up with on the field results, especially in the playoffs where it counts the most, and is an area several people took issue with his predecessor.

Yes the oline needs to get better. I think Grigson knows this which is why he keeps trying to fix it. He has tried multiple ways to fix it. He's drafted linemen late in the draft as well as high in the draft. He's signed stop gap guys, he went out and got a high priced free agent in Gosder. Clearly not all if these moves have worked. I doubt it means Grigson is going to stop trying though. I will also say this, I do think the line is better today than it was when he took over even if it still has room for improvement.

[jabbanobadda]

and you can say that about just about any team in the league that's built around a franchise QB. Even the Seahawks take Russel Wilson away and you have the Houston Texans. A team that was 9-7 last year, just about average. Still how many games do the Packers win without Rodgers? What do the Broncos do without Peyton? Heck people think if you take away the defending Champs franchise QB for four games they will start 1-3. Truth is if you have a franchise QB you pay him so much you are expecting him to cover up other flaws on your roster and you aren't going to survive being without him for an extended period of time. It's why teams that don't have one try really hard to get one because they are a difference maker. I know the Pats over came it one year but that was an exception to what you see to most teams if they lose their franchise QB for a season.

No one is going to argue Luck isn't the Colts best player and that he's the biggest on the field reason for the Colts success since he got here. However, he is not the Colts only good player. They have other talented players and Grigson brought almost all of them here, that's why people give Grigson credit for the Colts success too. Again, just about everyone who is saying that also agrees he hasn't been perfect. He's made mistakes but it's not out of the norm for a GM to make mistakes. However, overall, he's done a good job and it's shown up with on the field results, especially in the playoffs where it counts the most, and is an area several people took issue with his predecessor.

Yes the oline needs to get better. I think Grigson knows this which is why he keeps trying to fix it. He has tried multiple ways to fix it. He's drafted linemen late in the draft as well as high in the draft. He's signed stop gap guys, he went out and got a high priced free agent in Gosder. Clearly not all if these moves have worked. I doubt it means Grigson is going to stop trying though. I will also say this, I do think the line is better today than it was when he took over even if it still has room for improvement.

Great post! Couldn't have said it any better. There is no way you can argue this.

[Colts_Fan12]

and you can say that about just about any team in the league that's built around a franchise QB. Even the Seahawks take Russel Wilson away and you have the Houston Texans. A team that was 9-7 last year, just about average. Still how many games do the Packers win without Rodgers? What do the Broncos do without Peyton? Heck people think if you take away the defending Champs franchise QB for four games they will start 1-3. Truth is if you have a franchise QB you pay him so much you are expecting him to cover up other flaws on your roster and you aren't going to survive being without him for an extended period of time. It's why teams that don't have one try really hard to get one because they are a difference maker. I know the Pats over came it one year but that was an exception to what you see to most teams if they lose their franchise QB for a season.

No one is going to argue Luck isn't the Colts best player and that he's the biggest on the field reason for the Colts success since he got here. However, he is not the Colts only good player. They have other talented players and Grigson brought almost all of them here, that's why people give Grigson credit for the Colts success too. Again, just about everyone who is saying that also agrees he hasn't been perfect. He's made mistakes but it's not out of the norm for a GM to make mistakes. However, overall, he's done a good job and it's shown up with on the field results, especially in the playoffs where it counts the most, and is an area several people took issue with his predecessor.

Yes the oline needs to get better. I think Grigson knows this which is why he keeps trying to fix it. He has tried multiple ways to fix it. He's drafted linemen late in the draft as well as high in the draft. He's signed stop gap guys, he went out and got a high priced free agent in Gosder. Clearly not all if these moves have worked. I doubt it means Grigson is going to stop trying though. I will also say this, I do think the line is better today than it was when he took over even if it still has room for improvement.

I said give us a QB like Joe Flacco he isn't elite or anything but he's good. We wouldn't have done as good as we have with the rosters that Grigson has built. They are average.

I'm also not sure that the Seahawks would be just average without Wilson. Wilson isn't elite or non replaceable. I think the Hawks would be SB candidates with Alex Smith at QB

[Colt Forty-Five]

Take away Luck and this conversation does not happen and Grigson is long gone! And there you have it, the game of football reduced to a simple set of equations  ....

 

No QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Cleveland Browns

No QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Most of The NFL

No QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Eagles

Top QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Colts

Top QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Packers,

Top QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Patriots, Seahawks

 

And the results speak for themselves.

[GoColts8818]

I said give us a QB like Joe Flacco he isn't elite or anything but he's good. We wouldn't have done as good as we have with the rosters that Grigson has built. They are average.

I'm also not sure that the Seahawks would be just average without Wilson. Wilson isn't elite or non replaceable. I think the Hawks would be SB candidates with Alex Smith at QB

I think the Colts would do fine with Flacco at QB.  No not as good as they do with Luck but NO ONE is saying Luck isn't the biggest reason the Colts win on the field.  What people are saying is that he's NOT the only good player the Colts have and Grigson gets credit for bringing most of those other good players here or keeping them here.  He didn't just draft Luck and stick 52 Joe Nobody's out there with him. 

 

The Seahawks defense was largely in place the season before Wilson arrived.  They were 7-9.  So clearly Wilson helped some how as the next season they jumped to 11-5.  I also don't think Wilson is elite yet and the Seahawks are clearly not built around him.  However, I do think he's pretty good and in that group of QBs below the elite QBs in the NFL.  If you removed him from the Seahawks they would pretty much be the Texans.  A team with a great defense and a good running game but no QB.  The Texans were 9-7 last year and missed the playoffs.  That's not getting to the Super Bowl.  However, the Seahawks are about the only playoff team from last year that could take the QB off of that would probably still be in the playoff hunt.  So the argument that the Colts would stink if you removed Luck for an extended period of time isn't saying much.  Again, you can say that about any team if you take away their superstar QB. 

[GoColts8818]

Take away Luck and this conversation does not happen and Grigson is long gone! And there you have it, the game of football reduced to a simple set of equations  ....

 

No QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Cleveland Browns

No QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Most of The NFL

No QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Eagles

Top QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Colts

Top QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Packers,

Top QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Patriots, Seahawks

 

And the results speak for themselves.

Take away Hilton, Fleener, Wayne, and Allen isn't producing like Luck has to this point and the Colts aren't winning games like they have either.  If you truly think Luck would be producing like he has if his best weapons were Whalen, Rodgers, Brazil, and Doyle you have another thing coming. 

 

It's a team effort.  No question Luck is the best player.  At the sametime he benefits from the weapons that Grigson has put around him. 

[jabbanobadda]

Take away Luck and this conversation does not happen and Grigson is long gone! And there you have it, the game of football reduced to a simple set of equations ....

No QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Cleveland Browns

No QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Most of The NFL

No QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Eagles

Top QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Colts

Top QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Packers,

Top QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Patriots, Seahawks

And the results speak for themselves.

Another troll post but Im a gluten for punishment so here goes.

So, if Tom Brady was not on the Patriots, the Patriots would have...

A. Not made the playoffs in 2014

B. One and done in 2014

C. Lost AFC Championship in 2014

D. Lost SuperBowl in 2014

E. SuperBowl Champs in 2014.

[Colts_Fan12]

I think the Colts would do fine with Flacco at QB. No not as good as they do with Luck but NO ONE is saying Luck isn't the biggest reason the Colts win on the field. What people are saying is that he's NOT the only good player the Colts have and Grigson gets credit for bringing most of those other good players here or keeping them here. He didn't just draft Luck and stick 52 Joe Nobody's out there with him.

The Seahawks defense was largely in place the season before Wilson arrived. They were 7-9. So clearly Wilson helped some how as the next season they jumped to 11-5. I also don't think Wilson is elite yet and the Seahawks are clearly not built around him. However, I do think he's pretty good and in that group of QBs below the elite QBs in the NFL. If you removed him from the Seahawks they would pretty much be the Texans. A team with a great defense and a good running game but no QB. The Texans were 9-7 last year and missed the playoffs. That's not getting to the Super Bowl. However, the Seahawks are about the only playoff team from last year that could take the QB off of that would probably still be in the playoff hunt. So the argument that the Colts would stink if you removed Luck for an extended period of time isn't saying much. Again, you can say that about any team if you take away their superstar QB.

I didn't start off disliking Grigson I liked him a lot after year one but his moves since then have not been good keeping Vontae was good resigning Hilton was good too but other then those and the 2012 draft I haven't been impressed

[crazycolt1]

like I said put a QB that not near elite like Luck and the roster is average

But there is no other QB besides Luck so what you are saying means nothing. If, If, If the biggest 2 letter work in the dictionary that has so many meanings. If my aunt would have been born with a set of n??s she would be my uncle.

[SteelCityColt]

This topic has taught me one thing, it's much the better play to be a negative nancy because if things do go wrong people can jump and down smugly saying "I told you so" and if things do go well and let's say we do win the SB they'll be right there too drinking the celebratory Kool aid. As for some of the bending of facts to suit narratives... Truly some of it is worthy of Skip.

Extremists aside, those in the know on here (with one notable exception), seem to hold the middle ground on Grigson. Yes he's made mistakes but he's put together a winning team, not too shabby considering. Not perfect but my own personal opinion is that progress is being made, I'm pretty excited about this years draft class for one.

Newsflash too for all those calling for his head, it's not like he's getting the boot at this stage of the season do how about seeing how we go on this year? Now there may be argument about what his minimum achievement should be but it would be very odd to see a GM or coach sacked if they make the playoffs, let alone say the AFC Champ game.

[SteelCityColt]

But there is no other QB besides Luck so what you are saying means nothing. If, If, If the biggest 2 letter work in the dictionary that has so many meanings. If my aunt would have been born with a set of n??s she would be my uncle.

Another way to think of it, if there's no Luck then we probably still have 18 here....

[crazycolt1]

I said give us a QB like Joe Flacco he isn't elite or anything but he's good. We wouldn't have done as good as we have with the rosters that Grigson has built. They are average.

I'm also not sure that the Seahawks would be just average without Wilson. Wilson isn't elite or non replaceable. I think the Hawks would be SB candidates with Alex Smith at QB

We don't have Joe Flacco. We can all use hypothetical what ifs but they mean nothing.

[Colts_Fan12]

We don't have Joe Flacco. We can all use hypothetical what ifs but they mean nothing.

the point is the rest of the roster around Luck and Vontae is average

[Buck Showalter]

the point is the rest of the roster around Luck and Vontae is average

Tell that to Robert Mathis...

[Buck Showalter]

Take away Luck and this conversation does not happen and Grigson is long gone! And there you have it, the game of football reduced to a simple set of equations  ....

 

No QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Cleveland Browns

No QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Most of The NFL

No QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Eagles

Top QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Colts

Top QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Packers,

Top QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Patriots, Seahawks

 

And the results speak for themselves.

bwahahaha

[crazycolt1]

the point is the rest of the roster around Luck and Vontae is average

So what? they are winners. Average is better than below average, so I will take winners every time.

[Colts_Fan12]

Tell that to Robert Mathis...

I don't really count him cause he was here before Grigson and was a Polian pick plus he is on the decline

[Colts_Fan12]

So what? they are winners. Average is better than below average, so I will take winners every time.

guess I have higher standards in life my goal sure as hell wouldn't be to sign and draft all average players

[crazycolt1]

I don't really count him cause he was here before Grigson and was a Polian pick plus he is on the decline

You can dislike any GM, coach or players all you care to. But the facts speak for themselves. I am done with this so called debate because it is apparent you have your opinion and now all you can to do is argue. No thanks.

[crazycolt1]

guess I have higher standards in life my goal sure as hell wouldn't be to sign and draft all average players

It makes no different what your standards are. Goal in life??

[crazycolt1]

Take away Luck and this conversation does not happen and Grigson is long gone! And there you have it, the game of football reduced to a simple set of equations  ....

 

No QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Cleveland Browns

No QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Most of The NFL

No QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Eagles

Top QB + Brain Dead GM and Coaches = Colts

Top QB + Half Brain GM and Coaches = Packers,

Top QB + Smart GM and Coaches = Patriots, Seahawks

 

And the results speak for themselves.

Are you serious? Maybe you should put your flying Elvis cap on now and quit trolling.

[ztboiler]

I don't really count him cause he was here before Grigson and was a Polian pick plus he is on the decline

Grigson and Pagano should get full credit for Mathis being here.  Mathis was out of contract when they arrived.  Same with Wayne.  Those were huge decisions that contributed to instant success, and Grigson made the right calls on who to keep and who to let go.

 

The only people that don't respect how hard it is to get a single victory in the ultimate meritocracy that is the NFL are those who get to pay to watch.

[Colts_Fan12]

It makes no different what your standards are. Goal in life??

well if your happy with average then good for you

[SteelCityColt]

I don't really count him cause he was here before Grigson and was a Polian pick plus he is on the decline

Do you count Hilton, Gore, Johnson, Freeman, Butler, Adams? Because they're all above "average".

[Colts_Fan12]

Do you count Hilton, Gore, Johnson, Freeman, Butler, Adams? Because they're all above "average".

Gore has been weather he will be here is TBD. Hilton is part of the 2012 draft which in another post I said I liked. Johnson meh also on the decline not necessary IMO.Freeman is average. Butler is nothing special. Adams is over the hill and had a good season don't see him repeating it.

[Johnhenry]

Do you count Hilton, Gore, Johnson, Freeman, Butler, Adams? Because they're all above "average".

 

I don't think you can call Gore and Johnson above average when they haven't played a game yet. At their age, who knows if they have anything left in the tank and if they can play the season without serious injuries. I think they were overhyped, overpaid and over the hill. There were better choices for that amount of money.

[Superman]

This topic has taught me one thing, it's much the better play to be a negative nancy because if things do go wrong people can jump and down smugly saying "I told you so" and if things do go well and let's say we do win the SB they'll be right there too drinking the celebratory Kool aid. 

 

[SteelCityColt]

I don't think you can call Gore and Johnson above average when they haven't played a game yet. At their age, who knows if they have anything left in the tank and if they can play the season without serious injuries. I think they were overhyped, overpaid and over the hill. There were better choices for that amount of money.

You could also argue till proven orherwise they're records speak for themselves. But hey you're determined to see the current FO in the worse possible light.

Kinda gets real Ol real fast, you know what I mean Blu?

[Johnhenry]

You could also argue till proven orherwise they're records speak for themselves. But hey you're determined to see the current FO in the worse possible light.

Kinda gets real Ol real fast, you know what I mean Blu?

 

Not at all, I think they have made great decisions. Gore and Johnson may also turn out to be great decisions but I think they should at least play a game or two before deciding that.

[GoColts8818]

Do you count Hilton, Gore, Johnson, Freeman, Butler, Adams? Because they're all above "average".

or Wayne (who Grigson kept when everyone thought he was gone), Jackson (who made the pro-bowl last year), Mewhort, or Newsome who was our best pass rusher a year ago and had a darn good rookie season. 

[Buck Showalter]

well if your happy with average then good for you

it's the NFL you are already talking about the cream of the crop...

The colts have made the playoffs 16 out of the past 20 seasons, pretty much the opposite of average...

[Cynjin]

Gore has been weather he will be here is TBD. Hilton is part of the 2012 draft which in another post I said I liked. Johnson meh also on the decline not necessary IMO.Freeman is average. Butler is nothing special. Adams is over the hill and had a good season don't see him repeating it.

LOL

[Lawrence Owen]

I don't really count him cause he was here before Grigson and was a Polian pick plus he is on the decline

You  cannot truthfuly say he's on the decline when the last season he played he was the NFL sack leader.  granted, he got seriously hurt, and is a little older, so your perception is most likely right.  But until he actually hits the field and shows his production, what you said is just that..an assumption.

[crazycolt1]

I don't think you can call Gore and Johnson above average when they haven't played a game yet. At their age, who knows if they have anything left in the tank and if they can play the season without serious injuries. I think they were overhyped, overpaid and over the hill. There were better choices for that amount of money.

Maybe you better take a look at the contracts that Gore and Johnson signed before jumping to conclusions?