Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[Colts_Fan12]

200.

cool the GM sucks end of story if me and Dustin are horrible fans for thinking that the oh well

[crazycolt1]

How many teams have stud offensive lines? There is Dallas and...who else? Serious question because I really don't pay attention to other teams lines that much. Do stud offensive lineman grow on trees? I don't know...

Didn't you know a GM can just snap his fingers and come up with great linemen and get them for cheap? That seems to be what some think?

[Colts_Fan12]

Didn't you know a GM can just snap his fingers and come up with great linemen and get them for cheap? That seems to be what some think?

actually none of us have said that but a top 5 guard just signed for less the Donald's worthless *

[jabbanobadda]

actually none of us have said that but a top 5 guard just signed for less the Donald's worthless *

How do you know he wanted to play here? Didn't they say he turned down a 5 mil deal only to sign for Denver for less?

[Buck Showalter]

Well H. Thorton, believe it or not played better his first two years at the LG position, then he has the last few years IMO. I dont know what happened if he lost the love of the game, or if he isnt being challenged enough...

How many years has Thorton been on the team???

[Colts_Fan12]

How do you know he wanted to play here? Didn't they say he turned down a 5 mil deal only to sign for Denver for less?

it has been said we had no intrest and I believe it with Grigson

[NewColtsFan]

I question this teams ability to scout talent on OL and defense with the many many misses in both free agency and the draft.

Since 2012, here are some of the main misses...

Bjoern Werner

Hugh Thornton

Gosder cherilus

Laron Landry

Donald Thomas

Josh chapman

Montori Hughes

Tbd- Art jones, Jonathan newsome, Kendall Langford, Todd herremans

My basic point here is that outside of offensive skill position players, this scouting group has dropped the ball of many players and hopefully this isn't a trend.

 

You may -- MAY -- have a very good point.

 

But for me,  I'd also put guys like Werner, Thornton, Chapman, Thomas and Hughes in the TBD category.

 

I'm willing to wait one more year on these guys and hope that they can step up their game.

[Gavin]

How many years has Thorton been on the team???

The start of game 1 of the regular season will officially the start of his 3rd year

[NewColtsFan]

Don't you know that if it wasn't a first round draft pick, it doesn't count?

 

You know the first time I saw some poster make that draft/FA list from 2013, I think was.....   you.

 

So,  I've literally stolen from you several dozen times over the last few years.   And every time I do, I feel like I owe you some copyright fee!    Seems only fair.    

 

I get all these "likes" and what do you get?     The comfort that I least I steal from the best!        

[jabbanobadda]

it has been said we had no intrest and I believe it with Grigson

Well that's kind of weird...do you have a quote from Grigson saying that? I'm not doubting you, just wondering. Did he say he didn't because he's happy with what we have now? It really surprises me just because of the whole Philly connection.

I'm willing to wait and see what a healthy, well jelled o-line can do.

I hope between Luck's growth/getting rid of the ball faster along with the upgrades at running back will help the o-line.

[Colts_Fan12]

Well that's kind of weird...do you have a quote from Grigson saying that? I'm not doubting you, just wondering. Did he say he didn't because he's happy with what we have now? It really surprises me just because of the whole Philly connection.

I'm willing to wait and see what a healthy, well jelled o-line can do.

I hope between Luck's growth/getting rid of the ball faster along with the upgrades at running back will help the o-line.

no just was said by most of our colts insiders

[Superman]

cool the GM sucks end of story if me and Dustin are horrible fans for thinking that the oh well

 

Save the melodrama. No one said anything about anyone being a horrible fan. I just don't think you know what you're talking about, and would rather cling to fallacies and extremes.

 

I know Dustin knows what he's talking about, I just disagree with him.

[Superman]

How many years has Thorton been on the team???

 

I was wondering the same thing... maybe he's closer to the Earth's core and time moves more quickly for him.

[Superman]

You may -- MAY -- have a very good point.

 

But for me,  I'd also put guys like Werner, Thornton, Chapman, Thomas and Hughes in the TBD category.

 

I'm willing to wait one more year on these guys and hope that they can step up their game.

 

Don't you know that players don't get better after two seasons in the NFL? 

 

(Tired of my sarcasm yet?)

 

Yet, at the same time, we're complaining about the Jerry Hughes trade.

[Superman]

You know the first time I saw some poster make that draft/FA list from 2013, I think was.....   you.

 

So,  I've literally stolen from you several dozen times over the last few years.   And every time I do, I feel like I owe you some copyright fee!    Seems only fair.    

 

I get all these "likes" and what do you get?     The comfort that I least I steal from the best!      

 

You're too kind.

[Colts_Fan12]

Save the melodrama. No one said anything about anyone being a horrible fan. I just don't think you know what you're talking about, and would rather cling to fallacies and extremes.

I know Dustin knows what he's talking about, I just disagree with him.

because I liked Worford before the draft its "hindsight" not my fault no one else thought he would be good and like I said how many high picks have went to the O line? Actually picks and how much money? Not near enough as should head bad as it was year one

[Colts_Fan12]

Save the melodrama. No one said anything about anyone being a horrible fan. I just don't think you know what you're talking about, and would rather cling to fallacies and extremes.

I know Dustin knows what he's talking about, I just disagree with him.

just can't understand how someone as smart as you can't see the countless missed opportunities to fix our O line

[NewColtsFan]

because I liked Worford before the draft its "hindsight" not my fault no one else thought he would be good and like I said how many high picks have went to the O line? Actually picks and how much money? Not near enough as should head bad as it was year one

 

I think Grigson was trying to focus on defense with his first pick that year.   The 2nd pick had already gone to Vonte.

 

The third pick was Thornton.    We had better intel on Thornton than anyone as our assist OL coach came from Illinois and coached Thornton in college.      Holmes was a 4th round pick and Grigson noted he had been part of three different franchises (St. Lou, Philly & Indy)  that had all reached the SB with a free agent at center.    So, Grigson was investing much more than he usually wants to fill the center position.   

 

Remember things are obvious in hindsight.   Clearly Thornton was not as good as Worford.   But I think Grigson hoped to draft a good defender and then fill the guard spot with a good player (even if not as good as Worford)     It just didn't work out as we all wanted.     At least,  not so far.

[crazycolt1]

just can't understand how someone as smart as you can't see the countless missed opportunities to fix our O line

Just out of curiosity is there anything else you would like to dislike about Grigson? There are 22 starters on the team but you want to crucify Grigson over two positions. So the other 20 you feel the need to overlook as he has a done a good job. The two positions you are complaining about could be better but it wasn't from the lack of trying to get better. I have some shocking news for you to think about. All GMs struggle finding great linemen across the NFL. When one is found they get well paid and don't move around. Most free agents that become available are over priced or over the hill. That is the reality of the NFL. You think finding great linemen is easy? Check with about 31 other GMs and they are looking every day for good linemen. Keep in mind all these player have to be found and signed while staying within the cap.

[Colts_Fan12]

Just out of curiosity is there anything else you would like to dislike about Grigson? There are 22 starters on the team but you want to crucify Grigson over two positions. So the other 20 you feel the need to overlook as he has a done a good job. The two positions you are complaining about could be better but it wasn't from the lack of trying to get better. I have some shocking news for you to think about. All GMs struggle finding great linemen across the NFL. When one is found they get well paid and don't move around. Most free agents that become available are over priced or over the hill. That is the reality of the NFL. You think finding great linemen is easy? Check with about 31 other GMs and they are looking every day for good linemen. Keep in mind all these player have to be found and signed while staying within the cap.

yeah his overall lack of evaluating talent is sad

[BleedBlu8792]

They are obviously all bad because of how good their defenses are.

 

Aren't you the one about all the defensive moves and picks, and the offensive ones too, Grigson makes? I know what you're fishing for, and again, outside of Seattle there really is no team out there with a good-great QB and top-tier defense. About half have one or the other, and the rest have neither. On top of that, most of the teams that were in that list have been picking in the top half of the draft MULTIPLE times and that's not being generous enough. Those teams SHOULD be good defensively as most of those defenses are littered with high round draft picks. However, the majority of those teams couldn't draft a decent QB to save their lives as none of those teams have had a relevant QB in YEARS.

[BleedBlu8792]

only cause they don't have a QB guess what we do so if we actually put money into the D we would be great like then except our offense would also be good like I said to someone else with Andrew you don't need all your top picks and money to go towards WRs and TEs

 

All of those teams you listed have a plethora of high round draft picks on their defense. With the exception of Seattle, those teams have been picking in the top half of the draft for a LONG time, and even with all of those "high" picks they still couldn't draft a half way decent QB. Seattle is really the only team to have done right in getting an above average QB to pair with a top-tier defense. Everybody else is trying to mold their teams the same way, but just haven't quite figured it out.

 

For the bolded part of your quote which is completely FALSE, the Colts have less than 12% of their cap tied up in WR and TE's right now and a LARGE portion of the cap is directly pointed to the defense.

[NewColtsFan]

it has been said we had no intrest and I believe it with Grigson

 

 

Let me ask you a question....    lets assume for a moment that Grigson indeed had no interest in Mathis.   None.   Zero.

 

If you remember,  we got Grigson from Philly.     And where did Mathis come from?     Philly.     He got there in 2011.   Ryan Grigson was there in 2011.     So,  Ryan Grigson knows Evan Mathis.

 

And for whatever reason,  too much money,  not a scheme fit,  not a fit on the locker-room (whatever?!)  Grigson (if your belief is true)  thought that Mathis would not work for the Colts.

 

Why would you think that you -- as a fan -- would know more about a player being a good fit with the team than Grigson would?!?

 

I might not agree with a decision,  but I'd never assume I know more than a GM.  

 

Why isn't Grigson not believing that Mathis is a fit good enough for you to accept.    And yes,  I get that your * that our OL is still not up to par.    I get that.    I'm not happy with that either.   But I still think Grigson knows more than I do.

 

I look forward to your comments.

[Colts_Fan12]

All of those teams you listed have a plethora of high round draft picks on their defense. With the exception of Seattle, those teams have been picking in the top half of the draft for a LONG time, and even with all of those "high" picks they still couldn't draft a half way decent QB. Seattle is really the only team to have done right in getting an above average QB to pair with a top-tier defense. Everybody else is trying to mold their teams the same way, but just haven't quite figured it out.

For the bolded part of your quote which is completely FALSE, the Colts have less than 12% of their cap tied up in WR and TE's right now and a LARGE portion of the cap is directly pointed to the defense.

til we pay out the * next year for all our weapons and it's true our money is into the D too bad it's on average players or players over the hill besides Vontae

[Colts_Fan12]

Let me ask you a question.... lets assume for a moment that Grigson indeed had no interest in Mathis. None. Zero.

If you remember, we got Grigson from Philly. And where did Mathis come from? Philly. He got there in 2011. Ryan Grigson was there in 2011. So, Ryan Grigson knows Evan Mathis.

And for whatever reason, too much money, not a scheme fit, not a fit on the locker-room (whatever?!) Grigson (if your belief is true) thought that Mathis would not work for the Colts.

Why would you think that you -- as a fan -- would know more about a player being a good fit with the team than Grigson would?!?

I might not agree with a decision, but I'd never assume I know more than a GM.

Why isn't Grigson not believing that Mathis is a fit good enough for you to accept. And yes, I get that your * that our OL is still not up to par. I get that. I'm not happy with that either. But I still think Grigson knows more than I do.

I look forward to your comments.

who cares take the risk grow some balls we paid Thomas who was in NE in a zone blocking scheme not a power why not Mathis he's a Top guard in the whole league and he just signed for 2.5 million yeah I'm gonna be *

[NewColtsFan]

who cares take the risk grow some balls we paid Thomas who was in NE in a zone blocking scheme not a power why not Mathis he's a Top guard in the whole league and he just signed for 2.5 million yeah I'm gonna be *

 

Goodness....

 

Grow some balls?    Seriously?

 

The last time Grigson grew some balls he traded a #1 for Trent Richardson against conventional wisdom.

 

How'd that work out?

[crazycolt1]

yeah his overall lack of evaluating talent is sad

Sounds like your hate is over riding your sight. He has evaluated a good enough team to advance every year since he has been here. Since he is so bad I would like for you to give me one GM that has done what he has done? He took over this team when it was in shambles and 39 million in dead cap money. He won GM of the year his first year and that was voted on by people who know more about football than you or me no matter what you think. He took over a team and rebuilt it with the exception of 4 or 5 players and two of those were kickers. He put a team that was one game from the super bowl last season. You can say what you want but that does not make it true. Now name one GM that has taken a team to the playoffs his first 3 years dealing with pretty much a whole new team. I am waiting for your GM that has done that besides Grigson.

[BleedBlu8792]

til we pay out the * next year for all our weapons and it's true our money is into the D too bad it's on average players or players over the hill besides Vontae

 

I'm not sure how competent you are to how business works, especially in football, but good players get paid and get paid generously. However, looking at the salaries of the players, there really isn't anyone on the roster who I can explicitly point out and say they are being overpaid. Maybe Art Jones? But that's about it....

 

I look for one of the TE's to be gone and the other to be paid relative to their production. Neither are going to be getting a top-5 contract, at least not from here. Even with Andrew's and Anthony's contracts, the money may tip slightly in favor of the offense but it won't be due to the money being paid to the "weapons".

 

You want to see average players... Go look at NE's defense the past 5 years. Outside of Revis and even an aging Wilfork, that defense has defined the word "average". The difference is they actually have a HC/DC that knows how to scheme and get the best out of what he has. Manusky has flashed in being able to do that, but consistently? Not even close. If anyone is on the hot-seat this year, Manusky's rear-end is blazing right now. There is more than enough talent on that defense to pair with the offense to be able to win games decisively.

[Colts_Fan12]

Sounds like your hate is over riding your sight. He has evaluated a good enough team to advance every year since he has been here. Since he is so bad I would like for you to give me one GM that has done what he has done? He took over this team when it was in shambles and 39 million in dead cap money. He won GM of the year his first year and that was voted on by people who know more about football than you or me no matter what you think. He took over a team and rebuilt it with the exception of 4 or 5 players and two of those were kickers. He put a team that was one game from the super bowl last season. You can say what you want but that does not make it true. Now name one GM that has taken a team to the playoffs his first 3 years dealing with pretty much a whole new team. I am waiting for your GM that has done that besides Grigson.

any GM that drafted luck would have looked good. he won more games for us then we should have with the D we have had since he's been here. if it weren't for his mobility and great size he would have been injured by our garbage line since he's been here too. I don't care how many games we have won none of those have came because of the D he has put together or cause of a good run game. since we can't create holes cause like said the line is garbage. you take luck away and give Grigson another QB like say Joe Flacco talent wise and we don't win half the games we have won with the rosters we have had they are just average idk how that's hard to see.

[Colts_Fan12]

Goodness....

Grow some balls? Seriously?

The last time Grigson grew some balls he traded a #1 for Trent Richardson against conventional wisdom.

How'd that work out?

that's not growing balls or taking a risk. trading a 1st for any RB is stupid. I liked T rich and was fine when we got him but no RB is worth a 1st IMO. Was just dumb

[esmort]

Sounds like your hate is over riding your sight. He has evaluated a good enough team to advance every year since he has been here. Since he is so bad I would like for you to give me one GM that has done what he has done? He took over this team when it was in shambles and 39 million in dead cap money. He won GM of the year his first year and that was voted on by people who know more about football than you or me no matter what you think. He took over a team and rebuilt it with the exception of 4 or 5 players and two of those were kickers. He put a team that was one game from the super bowl last season. You can say what you want but that does not make it true. Now name one GM that has taken a team to the playoffs his first 3 years dealing with pretty much a whole new team. I am waiting for your GM that has done that besides Grigson.

 

I agree he had his work cut out for him when he took over and did a great job rebuilding many parts of the roster, but you are exaggerating a bit with the bolded statement you keep using ... although only 4 or 5 may remain there were more pieces than that when he got here.

 

When he arrived in addition to the jags the roster included:

 

Reggie Wayne

Robert Mathis

Anthony Castonzo

Dwight Freeney

Jerry Hughes

Pierre Garcon

Joe Reitz

Pat McAfee

Adam Veneteri

Antoine Bethea

 

So he had multiple future HOF players, some good players, as well as some other usable jags; the fact that he decided not to pay (I agree not paying Garcon) some and didn't effectively utilize others doesn't mean they weren't here.  He also walked into the #1 draft pick in the year Luck came out, and had all of that years high draft picks, as well as 3 compensatory picks.  So like I said he did inherit a lot of problems many of which he did a good job fixing, but the situation he was walking into isn't quite as dire as you are making it out either. I would guess there were other names on the potential GM list (as well as many who weren't on the list) that probably would have been able to achieve similar results with the what Grigson had to work with had he not taken the job. 

[Dustin]

Delete

[Lawrence Owen]

This year was the "Stop the run" year.  NOT 'build the o-line' year.

 

 Irsay flat told Pagano and Grigson to fix the defense, stop the run.

 

They Got Langford, Cole, Irving, and drafted Parry, Anderson, Herrera, and Geathers for that sole purpose.

 

 If 1/2 these guys are able to do what they were brought in to do,...Grigson has a big fat + on his resume' for this year.

[Cynjin]

In all seriousness, Shipley wasn't that good.

Don't tell the Shipley fanboys that.

[OffensivelyPC]

I was wondering the same thing... maybe he's closer to the Earth's core and time moves more quickly for him.

Actually, the core of Earth is moving faster than its surface.  And the faster you travel, the slower time goes (interestingly enough, theories also postulate the lower the gravity, the slower time goes, which means if Thornton would be at the center of the earth gravity would be zero, obviously less than the gravity constant on earth's surface).  So really, if there were measurable differences between two people, one born on the surface and one born at the core, the person born at the core would be younger than the one on the surface over a given period of time.  Of course, we don't have gear to withstand the magma, pressure, or any other hazardous conditions the closer we get to earth's core, plus the core of earth isn't moving anywhere close to the speed of light.  So the age difference would be negligible - or Thornton would be dead. The more you know...

[Superman]

just can't understand how someone as smart as you can't see the countless missed opportunities to fix our O line

 

You're being so sensational.

[Superman]

Actually, the core of Earth is moving faster than its surface.  And the faster you travel, the slower time goes (interestingly enough, theories also postulate the lower the gravity, the slower time goes, which means if Thornton would be at the center of the earth gravity would be zero, obviously less than the gravity constant on earth's surface).  So really, if there were measurable differences between two people, one born on the surface and one born at the core, the person born at the core would be younger than the one on the surface over a given period of time.  Of course, we don't have gear to withstand the magma, pressure, or any other hazardous conditions the closer we get to earth's core, plus the core of earth isn't moving anywhere close to the speed of light.  So the age difference would be negligible - or Thornton would be dead. The more you know...

 

So, what I said, except backward. 

[Superman]

who cares take the risk grow some balls we paid Thomas who was in NE in a zone blocking scheme not a power why not Mathis he's a Top guard in the whole league and he just signed for 2.5 million yeah I'm gonna be *

 

1) The bolded is false. The Patriots at best were a hybrid man/zone run blocking team when Donald Thomas was there, with a lot of pulling guard action. He was a great fit for the blocking scheme the Colts wanted to run. And he was 27 years old.

 

2) Saying things like 'who cares, take the risk' and then criticizing moves like Richardson is hypocritical.

 

3) http://www.thepunctuationguide.com/index.html

[Cynjin]

3)http://www.thepunctuationguide.com/index.html

LOL

[Superman]

I agree he had his work cut out for him when he took over and did a great job rebuilding many parts of the roster, but you are exaggerating a bit with the bolded statement you keep using ... although only 4 or 5 may remain there were more pieces than that when he got here.

 

When he arrived in addition to the jags the roster included:

 

Reggie Wayne

Robert Mathis

Anthony Castonzo

Dwight Freeney

Jerry Hughes

Pierre Garcon

Joe Reitz

Pat McAfee

Adam Veneteri

Antoine Bethea

 

So he had multiple future HOF players, some good players, as well as some other usable jags; the fact that he decided not to pay (I agree not paying Garcon) some and didn't effectively utilize others doesn't mean they weren't here.  He also walked into the #1 draft pick in the year Luck came out, and had all of that years high draft picks, as well as 3 compensatory picks.  So like I said he did inherit a lot of problems many of which he did a good job fixing, but the situation he was walking into isn't quite as dire as you are making it out either. I would guess there were other names on the potential GM list (as well as many who weren't on the list) that probably would have been able to achieve similar results with the what Grigson had to work with had he not taken the job. 

 

1) Every player on that list who is still here was re-signed by Grigson (besides AC), so he gets a little credit for them being here. Add Reggie, also. Most people thought Reggie and Mathis were gone.

 

2) One of my biggest beefs with Grigson was keeping Freeney in 2012, so I'd remove him.

 

3) Two of those players are kickers. Not really a big part of building a formidable roster (important, but let's not act like the foundations of the team were firm because McAfee and Vinatieri were already here).

 

4) Hughes was awful his first two seasons.

 

5) Garcon never played for Grigson's Colts, so I don't get why he's there; he didn't help the team win 11 games/year.

 

I don't think there's any exaggerating going on when you say that Grigson has completely rebuilt the roster, and along the way the team has been able to win 11 games each season. That's rare, if not unprecedented. Most people didn't expect the Colts to be anywhere near the playoffs until 2014. Here we're acting like it's no big deal. The situation was very dire. Maybe another GM could have managed the turnaround as well or better than Grigson, but that's an undetermined IF.