Grigson Has Some Explaining To Do

[Cynjin]

Boy, where were all you guys when people were criticizing Mike McGlynn? His job was difficult and I'm sure not one of you could play G better than Mike.....yet nobody was on here telling fans to take it easy on him. Why is it ok to crucify a player, but it's always hands off on a GM and coach?

I thought Mike played okay at center, not so much at guard, but there is a lot more to playing Oline than the one on one match ups. There are plenty of posters on here willing to criticize the Gm and Coaching, just like there are plenty of people on here willing to go after the players. If someone is going to complain every time an Olineman lets a Qb get pressured or misses a block without taking in to consideration the overall play of that player, that would be over the top. Or if posters went after a coach for every play that did not result in more than 3 or 4 yards, without looking at the whole game. It's the same when posters want to nitpick every draft pick or trade without looking at the direction of the team. The Colts have progressed each year after having, IMO, a poor roster in 2011 and 2012. If they regress this year then Irsay will have decisions to make, but until that time this nitpicking of the Gm is ridiculous.

[jabbanobadda]

Must be. Someone tells those dummies in Seattle, New England, Baltimore, Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Dallas that they're doing it wrong.

 

(It's ironic seeing who liked your post.)

Hehe.

[Pacergeek]

Whose decision was it to bench Shipley in favor of Harrison, who cannot correctly snap a ball. If Grigson made this switch, than this is a fireable offense IMO

[Rhane19]

our present gm has had several years to fix our main problems, poor front 7 on d, and o-line, they have gotten worse during his regime , time for an upgrade at the gm position, if we are to be superbowl bound, hoodie can fix his problem spots in 1 season, that's what a good gm does

 

It isn't like he hasn't tried signing people for the DL.    He signed Jean-Francois, Redding, Art Jones and drafted Chapman, Hughes (albeit, later in the draft).   Getting Freeman (thumper / run stopper) and DQ (also known for years as a run stopper).   This doesn't even add those that were added this year. Parry, Andersen, Langford, Cole  all are new for this year trying to fix the front 7.

 

Maybe it is a time for a different D-Coor since Manusky's scheme seems to be what gets destroyed.

 

I am good with a GM that gets us 11-5 almost every year. Teams (bears, redskins, raiders...etc) would kill for that much consistency and making the playoffs annually.

[GoColts8818]

Whose decision was it to bench Shipley in favor of Harrison, who cannot correctly snap a ball. If Grigson made this switch, than this is a fireable offense IMO

people here seem to really like ric Venturi's opinion on things (and I am one of them) and last year Venturi tore Shipley up pretty good and said he wasn't that good. Clearly there is something there that football people see or don't see that most fans don't get.

[Lawrence Owen]

I think Grigson is just a high rolling gambler.  Sometimes he hits, sometimes he misses.  2013 was a loss.  2012 was a win, 2014 was some hits, some miss.   This year the jury is still out, but looking promising to me.  

No team is great at every position.  Some teams are lucky to be good/great in ANY position.  Right now i'd say QB, WR, TE, ST  )the big 3) we are considered great overall.  LB, DB, are good, O-line and D-line are average.  

And that is not noting Mewhort learning a new position, Herrimans learning entire new scheme for the o-line, nor adding how Mathis, Cole, Irving, Lowery, or the rookies will effect things.

 

How many of you who are complaining were doing so right AFTER Indy whooped Denver in the playoff's last year? 

 

They pick a WR in the draft whom they called BPA after NE took away Hilton and we had no passing offence.  And the starting o-line looked less than ready for the first 2 PRESEASON games -when they ALWAYS looked bad in preseason because they don't game plan hardly at all- and the world is coming to an end.  

 

You cannot rebuild a team  in 1 or 2 years.  takes time to bring in talent, and time for that talent to learn your scheme.

Give some players time to learn new positions, their new team, and the rookies time to fit into NFL speed, and you might just be surprised.  

[Lawrence Owen]

OH, and I know some of you are not big on BR, but they just did a 'going into week 3 rookie report card",...and they got an A- overall.

 

 Saying that "Overall, though, this looks like a talented group that fits the Colts' needs from top to bottom."

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2554060-team-by-team-nfl-rookie-class-report-card-heading-into-preseason-week-3/page/15

[Dustin]

What's even funnier is that those teams, except for Seattle, are pretty much

They are obviously all bad because of how good their defenses are.

[throwing BBZ]

You still do the homework.  That's not the type of decision you make based on what others say.  You do your homework and make your own decision.  Again, had the Colts drafted RG3 and not Luck whose fault would it have been?  If people are going to blame Grigson if he would have made the wrong choice he gets the credit when he makes the right one, no matter how much of a no brainer you think it might have been. 

 

 It would have been Irsay`s fault. That is the point!

[GoColts8818]

It would have been Irsay`s fault. That is the point!

yeah no it wouldn't have been people would have been using it to call for Grigson to be fired.

[Jason_]

for what it's worth, which admittedly isn't much, I distinctly remember Irsay giving an interview when he started the search for a new GM, and he said that he would be making the decision on Manning and he would be making the decision on the #1 pick, but after that the new GM would have full control of the team.  I don't believe for a second that there was ever even a 1% chance that RG3 would have been the Colts selection with the #1 pick.  The ONLY way we would have wound up with RG3 is if we wound up with the 2nd pick rather than the first.

[BProland85]

I brought this up w/ friends the other day about Grigson: If you are a new leader, part of your job is to analyze what went wrong before, what didnt work. So what were those things in the Polian era: Couldnt run the ball, couldn't play top end defense, no backup QB, bad OL ,the surrounding talent outside the QB was subpar because of cap issues.

I'm pretty sure all Grigson has done is turnover the roster & give us the exact same problems 4 years later.

Couldn't agree more. Not all of its on Grigson, but I do see a lot of similarities between this regime and the one before where we had these same issues. I think coaching is a big part of it too. For the OL, we really haven't had a good consistent OL since the days of Howard Mudd. And our D coordinators have been very lackluster as well.

[Superman]

for what it's worth, which admittedly isn't much, I distinctly remember Irsay giving an interview when he started the search for a new GM, and he said that he would be making the decision on Manning and he would be making the decision on the #1 pick, but after that the new GM would have full control of the team.  I don't believe for a second that there was ever even a 1% chance that RG3 would have been the Colts selection with the #1 pick.  The ONLY way we would have wound up with RG3 is if we wound up with the 2nd pick rather than the first.

 

I remember Irsay saying something similar to that as well. What I don't believe is that he did the scouting and film study and made the decision without any input from the football people he just hired. I don't believe that this decision was made without doing intensive and extensive scouting and information gathering on Luck, Griffin, and other QBs in that draft.

 

I believe Grigson (and his staff) did that scouting, then Grigson and Irsay (and Pagano, and probably others), went over the scouting. Grigson made his recommendation -- draft Luck -- and Irsay, who was probably already partial to drafting Luck, said 'yeah, let's draft Luck.' 

[Jason_]

I remember Irsay saying something similar to that as well. What I don't believe is that he did the scouting and film study and made the decision without any input from the football people he just hired. I don't believe that this decision was made without doing intensive and extensive scouting and information gathering on Luck, Griffin, and other QBs in that draft.

 

I believe Grigson (and his staff) did that scouting, then Grigson and Irsay (and Pagano, and probably others), went over the scouting. Grigson made his recommendation -- draft Luck -- and Irsay, who was probably already partial to drafting Luck, said 'yeah, let's draft Luck.' 

 

pretty much yes to all that, though I think it Irsay was already more than "partial to drafting Luck" lol...IMO I figure Irsay had in mind all along that he wanted Luck, I got that feeling around Thanksgiving...if I remember right Irsay gave a live interview at the halftime of one of the Thanksgiving day games and they talked about all this.  So I think Irsay was sold on Luck all along, but yeah I have no doubt that Grigson and staff did the due diligence which really just confirmed what Irsay had already been planning. 

[Superman]

Whose decision was it to bench Shipley in favor of Harrison, who cannot correctly snap a ball. If Grigson made this switch, than this is a fireable offense IMO

 

That was my decision, and I stand by it.

[Superman]

pretty much yes to all that, though I think it Irsay was already more than "partial to drafting Luck" lol...IMO I figure Irsay had in mind all along that he wanted Luck, I got that feeling around Thanksgiving...if I remember right Irsay gave a live interview at the halftime of one of the Thanksgiving day games and they talked about all this.  So I think Irsay was sold on Luck all along, but yeah I have no doubt that Grigson and staff did the due diligence which really just confirmed what Irsay had already been planning. 

 

Everyone knew Luck would be the best player in the draft for over a year. But still, GMs mess up big decisions like this all the time. We all knew Clowney would be the best player in the 2014 draft, but that doesn't mean he should have been the #1 pick.

[ColtRider]

I couldn't read more than a few pages on here, but to me it seems crazy that we are defending and giving the benefit of the doubt to our OL.. No other quarterback in the league has been hit more than Andrew Luck since his rookie season. Our run blocking has been sub par ever since. I'm not saying we need to panic, but "relaxed" doesn't seem to be the right mindset... 

 

I still haven't been able to watch the last preseason game.. NFL network didn't show it Saturday.

Luck has held the ball too long, too many times, to entirely fault the OL. He's learning. Believe me, he's learning.

[Jason_]

That was my decision, and I stand by it.

 

Next time I expect you to run such decisions past the Trilateral Commission before acting on them.

[ColtRider]

our present gm has had several years to fix our main problems, poor front 7 on d, and o-line, they have gotten worse during his regime , time for an upgrade at the gm position, if we are to be superbowl bound, hoodie can fix his problem spots in 1 season, that's what a good gm does

Although Belichick is a GREAT HC, you're telling us that the Colts would've gone to the Super Bowl in 2013 after 2012 to fix all problems as our GM? Uh, take a look at what GM Grigson has accomplished these last 3 seasons. Following the logic of a GM Belichick lead team, it seems as though you have the Colts pegged in all 3 Super Bowls since. (2013, 2014, 2015)

This is based upon giving one season to fix "problem spots". Just trying to be clear here. Is that the implication, because "that's what a good gm does"?

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Imo, Luck was the reason Peyton was cut. If we didn't have the #1 pick to choose Luck, Peyton would still have been here.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

[Cynjin]

That was my decision, and I stand by it.

 

Whhhhhhy, Why, would you make such a horrible decision?  

[Colts_Fan12]

Grigson gets criticized plenty in the media. Must be more of those hindsight/revisionist history guys....

your prolly right

[Colts_Fan12]

& how are those teams offenses???

Did more than 75% of those teams even make the playoffs???

do any of those teams have Andrew Luck? Im sorry but when you have a QB like that you don't put all your money and draft pics into the offense

[Colts_Fan12]

What's even funnier is that those teams, except for Seattle, are pretty much

only cause they don't have a QB guess what we do so if we actually put money into the D we would be great like then except our offense would also be good like I said to someone else with Andrew you don't need all your top picks and money to go towards WRs and TEs

[Buck Showalter]

do any of those teams have Andrew Luck? Im sorry but when you have a QB like that you don't put all your money and draft pics into the offense

Who put all the money into offense??? I thought the problem was not enough $$$ went to the offense... Which is it, & what positions do Langford, Cole, Irving, Geathers, Parry, Anderson & Smith play???

[Colts_Fan12]

Who put all the money into offense??? I thought the problem was not enough $$$ went to the offense... Which is it, & what positions do Langford, Cole, Irving, Geathers, Parry, Anderson & Smith play???

well Grigson uses all the to picks on weapons and ignores the trenches and he spends all our money on old * players on the D or players who suck like Landry

[BOTT]

I thought Mike played okay at center, not so much at guard, but there is a lot more to playing Oline than the one on one match ups. There are plenty of posters on here willing to criticize the Gm and Coaching, just like there are plenty of people on here willing to go after the players. If someone is going to complain every time an Olineman lets a Qb get pressured or misses a block without taking in to consideration the overall play of that player, that would be over the top. Or if posters went after a coach for every play that did not result in more than 3 or 4 yards, without looking at the whole game. It's the same when posters want to nitpick every draft pick or trade without looking at the direction of the team. The Colts have progressed each year after having, IMO, a poor roster in 2011 and 2012. If they regress this year then Irsay will have decisions to make, but until that time this nitpicking of the Gm is ridiculous.

well, we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I think his list of mistakes is significant.

[BOTT]

If anything Marino is the argument a QB alone can only take you so far.  He even had the advantage of being paired with maybe the greatest coach of all time, and if not the greatest he's top five all time. Yet they got a A Super Bowl during that whole time and lost.  So based on Marino one would have to conclude it takes more than just a great QB and a great coach to win in this league.

Well, it's a good thing nobody said different. Nobody said a QB alone can win a SB....although Marino and elway came close.

Shula was great.....in the 60's and 70's

[Superman]

well Grigson uses all the to picks on weapons and ignores the trenches and he spends all our money on old * players on the D or players who suck like Landry

 

 

And didn't you basically co-sign the Landry signing?

[Superman]

Whhhhhhy, Why, would you make such a horrible decision?  

 

In all seriousness, Shipley wasn't that good.

[chad72]

It isn't like he hasn't tried signing people for the DL.    He signed Jean-Francois, Redding, Art Jones and drafted Chapman, Hughes (albeit, later in the draft).   Getting Freeman (thumper / run stopper) and DQ (also known for years as a run stopper).   This doesn't even add those that were added this year. Parry, Andersen, Langford, Cole  all are new for this year trying to fix the front 7.

 

Maybe it is a time for a different D-Coor since Manusky's scheme seems to be what gets destroyed.

 

I am good with a GM that gets us 11-5 almost every year. Teams (bears, redskins, raiders...etc) would kill for that much consistency and making the playoffs annually.

 

I also feel it is time to look at the OL coach. We like to blame Grigson for everything but he has drafted Thornton, Holmes and Mewhort, and signed Donald Thomas, Cherilus, Herremann etc. and gave the coach enough horses. I look at what the Patriots have done. They had one heck of a coach named Scarnecchia who made it work with Ryan Wendell, Dan Connolly etc. that were not household names. Yeah, they did draft Matt Light, Logan Mankins, Sebastian Vollmer (though Vollmer is not a world beater by any means) etc. but lately, they have made it work with later round picks and free agent pickups

 

At some point, we have to point fingers at our OL and DL coaches because our trenches do not seem to get the job done. Luck is in year 4 and I anticipate that he will start releasing the ball quicker to make the OL look better than it is as well just like Peyton started doing as his career progressed. DL - unless you get some experience in the league, it takes time to produce and this is the year you can expect our DL young guns to start playing better, IMO. Seahawks - they went out and signed Jason Jones, Tony McDaniels, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril etc. to get the depth on their DL and that is when they won their SB. Having the personnel for the depth is one thing, coaching them up is another. 

[NewColtsFan]

well Grigson uses all the to picks on weapons and ignores the trenches and he spends all our money on old * players on the D or players who suck like Landry

 

Let me take you all the way back to 2013,  where Grigson didn't use a single pick on a weapon and he didn't ignore either the OL or the DL.

 

1st pick was Werner

 

2nd pick was traded for Vonte

 

3rd pick was Thornton  (Trench)

 

4th pick was Holmes    (Trench)

 

5th pick was Hughes   (Trench)

 

6th pick was Boyett 

 

And in FA he signed Cherilus (Trench) Thomas (Trench)  RJF (Trench)  and Franklin (Trench)

 

So, you assertion that he ignores the trenches wasn't hard to disprove,  same with your assertion that he focuses on is weapons.

 

Now, none of the above worked out as hoped for,  but that wasn't the thrust of your point.  

 

Then again,  Dustin will be along in 3, 2, 1 to say you don't get points for trying........

[BOTT]

Whose decision was it to bench Shipley in favor of Harrison, who cannot correctly snap a ball. If Grigson made this switch, than this is a fireable offense IMO

The man, the myth, the legend.....AQ Shipley. RING OF HONOR

[Superman]

Let me take you all the way back to 2013,  where Grigson didn't use a single pick on a weapon and he didn't ignore either the OL or the DL.

 

1st pick was Werner

 

2nd pick was traded for Vonte

 

3rd pick was Thornton  (Trench)

 

4th pick was Holmes    (Trench)

 

5th pick was Hughes   (Trench)

 

6th pick was Boyett 

 

And in FA he signed Cherilus (Trench) Thomas (Trench)  RJF (Trench)  and Franklin (Trench)

 

So, you assertion that he ignores the trenches wasn't hard to disprove,  same with your assertion that he focuses on is weapons.

 

Now, none of the above worked out as hoped for,  but that wasn't the thrust of your point.  

 

Then again,  Dustin will be along in 3, 2, 1 to say you don't get points for trying........

 

Don't you know that if it wasn't a first round draft pick, it doesn't count?

[BProland85]

I question this teams ability to scout talent on OL and defense with the many many misses in both free agency and the draft.

Since 2012, here are some of the main misses...

Bjoern Werner

Hugh Thornton

Gosder cherilus

Laron Landry

Donald Thomas

Josh chapman

Montori Hughes

Tbd- Art jones, Jonathan newsome, Kendall Langford, Todd herremans

My basic point here is that outside of offensive skill position players, this scouting group has dropped the ball of many players and hopefully this isn't a trend.

[jabbanobadda]

How many teams have stud offensive lines? There is Dallas and...who else? Serious question because I really don't pay attention to other teams lines that much. Do stud offensive lineman grow on trees? I don't know...

[Rackeen305]

I question this teams ability to scout talent on OL and defense with the many many misses in both free agency and the draft.

Since 2012, here are some of the main misses...

Bjoern Werner

Hugh Thornton

Gosder cherilus

Laron Landry

Donald Thomas

Josh chapman

Montori Hughes

Tbd- Art jones, Jonathan newsome, Kendall Langford, Todd herremans

My basic point here is that outside of offensive skill position players, this scouting group has dropped the ball of many players and hopefully this isn't a trend.

Well H. Thorton, believe it or not played better his first two years at the LG position, then he has the last few years IMO. I dont know what happened if he lost the love of the game, or if he isnt being challenged enough...

[Colts_Fan12]

And didn't you basically co-sign the Landry signing?

how many top picks have went to fix this god awful o line

[Superman]

how many top picks have went to fix this god awful o line

 

200.

[chad72]

Well, here you go. The O-line that won us the SB:

 

Tarik Glenn - Round 1 pick

Ryan Lilja - Undrafted

Jeff Saturday - Undrafted

Jake Scott - Round 5 pick

Ryan Diem - Round 4 pick

 

 

We don't need top round picks on OL to win us the SB. We do need them to play well as a unit cohesively with continuity, and need a coach that can coach them up well.