Trade Potential?

[CanuckColt]

Why do we have this dumb thread? and so many replies?

[Manning1887]

Brown and Carter are hardly established commodities;  they will be the one's patrolling the sidelines next year, if they even make the team.....not Moncrief.  Andre Johnson has 2 years left max.  If we are lucky enough to resign Hilton, we will need Dorsett and Moncrief to fill the 2-3 WR positions.  If Hilton leaves, that makes Moncrief all the more valuable.

 

Also, one of Allen or Fleener is gone next year.  And Doyle's a mediocre layman who's name shouldn't ever occupy the same paragraph as phrases such as "loaded" and "offensive playmakers".

 

If we are unable to re-sign Hilton (although unlikely), they dynamic changes, but it won't change until next season. However, this year Hilton, Johnson, and Dorsett are the top 3 guys with Moncrief as #4. (Granted, it is possible that Moncrief wins the #3 job, but I doubt it).

 

IF we could obtain a second round pick in next year's draft for Moncrief, we are adding tremendous value to our cache of draft picks next year. THIS YEAR, Moncrief is a luxury. We can add more depth at wide receiver next year or even in the 2017 draft. 

 

For those who believe we could not obtain a 2nd round pick for Moncrief I disagree. It is a matter of need (first and foremost), the potential Moncrief has shown, and his cheap contract. A team in need with playoff aspirations would consider this deal. 

 

Part of my rationale for considering this type of trade is the plethora of talent at WR the last couple of drafts. I believe it would not be terribly difficult to obtain a quality wide receiver in the 3rd or 4th round of an upcoming draft. Again, trading Moncrief does not hurt as much THIS season given the depth we have. 

 

Injuries can always change the consideration. 

[ColtsLegacy]

I'd trade Dwayne Allen and Donte Moncrief for a 7th and a 5th respectively once they show some production as the year begins.

That is the most we are going to get, likely. Moncrief may get a 4th with the right team but that is the most I expect. Look at the rookie wide outs contributing around the league, it is easier to get another Moncrief than you think. We are not keeping Dwayne Allen, either he plays well and leaves because we have enough play makers to pay or he does not get enough touches and wants to leave anyway.

Boom Herron, I doubt he even gets a pick, IMO, given the RB situation in the NFL.

If that is not acceptable, we are better off riding with the horses we got as long as we can ride them .

. If Grigson wanted to top the stupidity of the TR trade he would make those trades.

And then we, the fans, would send Grigson out to the middle of the ocean on a wooden ship and then light said ship on fire.

[Manning1887]

Why do we have this dumb thread? and so many replies?

 

The whole point was really to take a look at places of strength on the roster, as well as weaknesses to assess potential trade options. 

 

I gave a couple of thoughts and people ran with them. Will my thoughts come to fruition? Absolutely not, but it is interesting to have a discussion. 

 

If you disagree, say something. Everyone has an opinion. However, you do not need to make disrespectful comments. 

[BPindy]

If we are unable to re-sign Hilton (although unlikely), they dynamic changes, but it won't change until next season. However, this year Hilton, Johnson, and Dorsett are the top 3 guys with Moncrief as #4. (Granted, it is possible that Moncrief wins the #3 job, but I doubt it).

IF we could obtain a second round pick in next year's draft for Moncrief, we are adding tremendous value to our cache of draft picks next year. THIS YEAR, Moncrief is a luxury. We can add more depth at wide receiver next year or even in the 2017 draft.

For those who believe we could not obtain a 2nd round pick for Moncrief I disagree. It is a matter of need (first and foremost), the potential Moncrief has shown, and his cheap contract. A team in need with playoff aspirations would consider this deal.

Part of my rationale for considering this type of trade is the plethora of talent at WR the last couple of drafts. I believe it would not be terribly difficult to obtain a quality wide receiver in the 3rd or 4th round of an upcoming draft. Again, trading Moncrief does not hurt as much THIS season given the depth we have.

Injuries can always change the consideration.

Moncrief is the #3 guy until proven otherwise. Dorsett looks like he could be solid, but even if he his, he's another small speedy WR. We need a big bodied receiver like Moncrief (who knows how long AJ will play), and Carter is completely unproven. No one knows if he will make any impact whatsoever

[Narcosys]

 

 

Donte Moncrief: 2nd round pick

I realize mentioning this possibility is akin to heresy, but I could see Moncrief drawing a lot of attention. He is one year into his 4 year rookie deal as a 3rd round pick (lower cost than 2nd rounder). He has shown a great deal of potential. However, he is stuck as the 3rd or 4th WR on a team loaded with offensive playmakers. We have Dorsett, Carter, Brown at WR, as well as Fleener, Allen, and Doyle. An extra second rounder next year would be more valuable, in my opinion, than having Moncrief patrolling the sidelines. 

 

 

I would get rid of Carter before Moncrief, but you have to offer something.

[MacDee1975]

I'd trade Dwayne Allen and Donte Moncrief for a 7th and a 5th respectively once they show some production as the year begins.

 

That is the most we are going to get, likely. Moncrief may get a 4th with the right team but that is the most I expect. Look at the rookie wide outs contributing around the league, it is easier to get another Moncrief than you think. We are not keeping Dwayne Allen, either he plays well and leaves because we have enough play makers to pay or he does not get enough touches and wants to leave anyway.

 

Boom Herron, I doubt he even gets a pick, IMO, given the RB situation in the NFL.

 

If that is not acceptable, we are better off riding with the horses we got as long as we can ride them .

 

Wow

[Douzer]

I'd personally keep Allen, Dude can run block as well as make a real good receiving TE if he was used in that way more, If we were to trade a TE (And Im not saying do this...Just hypothetical) then I'd rather it be Fleener, While he clearly is a very good receiving TE Allen would be able to do the job just as good more then likely and be able to run block as well....Something Fleener just is not very good at at all unless he gets up in space on a Linebacker and he is still inconsistent with that....Again Im not saying trade Fleener but just using your scenario. I'd honestly rather have 2-3 TE's that can run block well and just be decent at receiving over a TE that can catch and get vertical

Fleener is a quality receiving target and also enhances red zone options. He's a good asset, however Fleener does grade out poorly on blocking, and blocking is where the Colts absolutely must improve, whereas receiving targets is where they should grade out nicely. In a purely hypothetical exercise, Fleener would have trade value, and a guy like Swoop could potentially fill the catch void. This is a hypothetical trade that I wouldn't love, but could reason out its merits.

 

Trading Moncrief on the other hand would irritate me to no end. He's really young (I think he's just twenty), talented, smart, hard working, etc., etc. etc. He's all upside and it makes no sense to me to even think about letting someone else have him.

 

Tipton has always been on the bubble, outside looking in. That's not trade level.

[Chucklez]

. If Grigson wanted to top the stupidity of the TR trade he would make those trades.

And then we, the fans, would send Grigson out to the middle of the ocean on a wooden ship and then light said ship on fire.

I couldnt agree more, who in their right minds only values Dwayne Allen for 7th rounder?! That's insane.... Same goes for Moncrief for a 5th.....

[GoColts8818]

Fans reaction:

"Oh we have depth lets trade someone!"

Trade is made and then a player gets hurt

"Why don't we have depth there? Fire the GM!"

[RealityIsLuck]

No point in moving Moncrief or Herron, they are all potential. They will both be worth way more then the market would give us at this point.

[RockThatBlue]

Neither trade is remotely realistic.

[NewColtsFan]

I'm sorry.....

 

But Herron would not command a 5th.   Not even close.

 

And Moncrief would not get us a 2nd.    Not even close.

 

Neither have done anywhere near enough to get these picks.    Not even close.

[NewColtsFan]

I'd trade Dwayne Allen and Donte Moncrief for a 7th and a 5th respectively once they show some production as the year begins.

 

That is the most we are going to get, likely. Moncrief may get a 4th with the right team but that is the most I expect. Look at the rookie wide outs contributing around the league, it is easier to get another Moncrief than you think. We are not keeping Dwayne Allen, either he plays well and leaves because we have enough play makers to pay or he does not get enough touches and wants to leave anyway.

 

Boom Herron, I doubt he even gets a pick, IMO, given the RB situation in the NFL.

 

If that is not acceptable, we are better off riding with the horses we got as long as we can ride them .

 

 

OK....    who are you,  and what have you done to Chad?!?    Back away from Chad.    Let him go unharmed, and no one else needs to be hurt.    

 

Chad's a good guy.    We like Chad.     What have you done with him?

 

Allen for a 7th?     Moncrief for a 5th?     Huh?!? 

[chad72]

OK....    who are you,  and what have you done to Chad?!?    Back away from Chad.    Let him go unharmed, and no one else needs to be hurt.

 

Allen for a 7th?     Moncrief for a 5th?      Remember,  never drink or do drugs and then post!   

 

Well, that is a post I am not proud of, let us leave it at that . I am not going to keep defending it. 

[Bubbz]

Moncrief wouldn't command a 2nd round pick....nowhere near the production to justify it. This is just a guess but at most a 5th....He will soon prove more valuable to us then a 5th or a 2nd I think

The comparison of Tipton and Foster ends at there height/weight. I agree about Herron not going to be a long term solution/tandem with any of our Backs but he wont command a 5th

Agreed, I think moncrief will be a stud, probably better than dorsett

[Manning1887]

Fans reaction:

"Oh we have depth lets trade someone!"

Trade is made and then a player gets hurt

"Why don't we have depth there? Fire the GM!"

The whole point of the trade is that we have depth at WR. Between Dorsett, Carter, and even Brown, there is enough quality depth to consider a trade. Again, the only way I would trade Moncrief is for a 2nd round pick, which I feel he could command.

[Malakai432]

[akcolt]

The whole point of the trade is that we have depth at WR. Between Dorsett, Carter, and even Brown, there is enough quality depth to consider a trade. Again, the only way I would trade Moncrief is for a 2nd round pick, which I feel he could command.[/quote

You think Moncrief could get a 2nd round pick? Based on what his 27 yards per game last year? Not realistic

AJ is old TY isn't resigned Dorsett and Carter haven't played in a game. Brown has a history of injury. Not smart.

[GoColts8818]

The whole point of the trade is that we have depth at WR. Between Dorsett, Carter, and even Brown, there is enough quality depth to consider a trade. Again, the only way I would trade Moncrief is for a 2nd round pick, which I feel he could command.[/quote

You think Moncrief could get a 2nd round pick? Based on what his 27 yards per game last year? Not realistic

AJ is old TY isn't resigned Dorsett and Carter haven't played in a game. Brown has a history of injury. Not smart.

glad to see someone got my point

[CanuckColt]

The whole point was really to take a look at places of strength on the roster, as well as weaknesses to assess potential trade options. 

 

I gave a couple of thoughts and people ran with them. Will my thoughts come to fruition? Absolutely not, but it is interesting to have a discussion. 

 

If you disagree, say something. Everyone has an opinion. However, you do not need to make disrespectful comments. 

Sorry.  It's just that we cannot afford to trade anyone from the RB and WR positions.

Ballard gets hurt easily and probably won't make the 53, so we need Heron.

Moncrief is our #3 WR this year with a year of NFL experience...he will be playing as our No.2 when Andre gets dinged (and Andre WILL get dinged...just a matter of how bad and how long)...and Andre won't be here very long, so we need to keep all our young WRs.

[Manning1887]

ame="akcolt" post="1138940" timestamp="1438841099"]glad to see someone got my point

 

I absolutely feel that Moncrief could command a 2nd round pick. The value is not based on his body of work last year as much as his potential. When he was called upon last year to contribute in a more substantial capacity, he stepped up. I feel his work in the Pittsburgh and Washington games showcase what he is capable of producing.

 

I think the 2nd round pick also makes sense as we get closer to the season and other teams seek to fill a need created by injury. For instance, Malcolm Floyd will be out for a while for Arizona. As teams look to shore up their roster, Moncrief is an interesting player to consider. He would be more than just a stopgap addition. He has a load of potential and a nice contract situation. A PLAYOFF contending team would have to consider giving up a 2nd to fill a need.

 

One final note, I bring up the Vontae Davis trade. We gave up a 2nd round pick for him. Although he was a first round pick, he had some issues in Miami. There were questions about his dedication to the game. Before the trade, he was nowhere close to an elite corner. A 2nd was a high price for a player that had shown flashes up to that point. However, we had a big need at corner, and we took a chance. It worked out well. 

 

While I am perfectly fine keeping him (most likely what will happen). I mention the possibility to showcase the value of a 2nd round pick to us. We could add a competent offensive lineman, or even a defensive playmaker to the roster. 

[GoColts8818]

I absolutely feel that Moncrief could command a 2nd round pick. The value is not based on his body of work last year as much as his potential. When he was called upon last year to contribute in a more substantial capacity, he stepped up. I feel his work in the Pittsburgh and Washington games showcase what he is capable of producing.

I think the 2nd round pick also makes sense as we get closer to the season and other teams seek to fill a need created by injury. For instance, Malcolm Floyd will be out for a while for Arizona. As teams look to shore up their roster, Moncrief is an interesting player to consider. He would be more than just a stopgap addition. He has a load of potential and a nice contract situation. A PLAYOFF contending team would have to consider giving up a 2nd to fill a need.

One final note, I bring up the Vontae Davis trade. We gave up a 2nd round pick for him. Although he was a first round pick, he had some issues in Miami. There were questions about his dedication to the game. Before the trade, he was nowhere close to an elite corner. A 2nd was a high price for a player that had shown flashes up to that point. However, we had a big need at corner, and we took a chance. It worked out well.

While I am perfectly fine keeping him (most likely what will happen). I mention the possibility to showcase the value of a 2nd round pick to us. We could add a competent offensive lineman, or even a defensive playmaker to the roster.

you aren't getting a second pick for Moncrief. When the Colts traded Faulk they got a second rounder in return. Moncrief is not going to get you the same thing you got for trading Faulk. This isn't Madden.

Also you don't trade depth just because you have it. You do that if you surplus. There is deference between that and depth. You have two rookies an aging WR and a guy going into the last year of his deal. All it takes is a bust, an injury and TY to sign elsewhere in the off-season and you are begging for Mincrief. Right now the smart move is to keep him.

[Gavin]

I absolutely feel that Moncrief could command a 2nd round pick. The value is not based on his body of work last year as much as his potential. When he was called upon last year to contribute in a more substantial capacity, he stepped up. I feel his work in the Pittsburgh and Washington games showcase what he is capable of producing.

 

I think the 2nd round pick also makes sense as we get closer to the season and other teams seek to fill a need created by injury. For instance, Malcolm Floyd will be out for a while for Arizona. As teams look to shore up their roster, Moncrief is an interesting player to consider. He would be more than just a stopgap addition. He has a load of potential and a nice contract situation. A PLAYOFF contending team would have to consider giving up a 2nd to fill a need.

 

One final note, I bring up the Vontae Davis trade. We gave up a 2nd round pick for him. Although he was a first round pick, he had some issues in Miami. There were questions about his dedication to the game. Before the trade, he was nowhere close to an elite corner. A 2nd was a high price for a player that had shown flashes up to that point. However, we had a big need at corner, and we took a chance. It worked out well. 

 

While I am perfectly fine keeping him (most likely what will happen). I mention the possibility to showcase the value of a 2nd round pick to us. We could add a competent offensive lineman, or even a defensive playmaker to the roster. 

Vontae showed more then flashes in Miami, Up till last year as a Colts Vontae put up very similar production in Miami, Up till Vontaes huge year last year his production pretty much was equal to when he was a Dolphin, Last year was his a huge breakout type of year....Moncrief on the other hand while he did flash...He flashed 1 year and in limited snaps.

[Gavin]

you aren't getting a second pick for Moncrief. When the Colts traded Faulk they got a second rounder in return. Moncrief is not going to get you the same thing you got for trading Faulk. This isn't Madden.

That trade would not fly on Madden actually

[Manning1887]

you aren't getting a second pick for Moncrief. When the Colts traded Faulk they got a second rounder in return. Moncrief is not going to get you the same thing you got for trading Faulk. This isn't Madden.

Also you don't trade depth just because you have it. You do that if you surplus. There is deference between that and depth. You have two rookies an aging WR and a guy going into the last year of his deal. All it takes is a bust, an injury and TY to sign elsewhere in the off-season and you are begging for Mincrief. Right now the smart move is to keep him.

 

Really? You are going back to a trade from 1999 to support your argument in 2015 that a player at a different position is not worth a second round pick? 

 

The Faulk trade was brought on due to him wanting a new contract. There was no question we were going to trade him, which alters the trade market a little. Also, we traded him for a pick in that subsequent draft (only a few months later), not after a season was played. Finally, we turned down better trade offers in order to trade Faulk to the Rams (Polian interview I remember reading). 

 

Moncrief's potential, his contract (1 year into his 4 year deal for a 3rd rounder), plus a team's need showcase 2nd round consideration. As a topper, we absolutely do not need to trade him. An offer of a 2nd rounder is probably what it would take for the team to listen. 

 

I am not saying trade depth because we have it, but we have it in spades on offense. I would not trade Moncrief for anything, but a 2nd would perk my ears up. It's a risk to trade depth, which is why the consideration has to match up. 

[GoColts8818]

Really? You are going back to a trade from 1999 to support your argument in 2015 that a player at a different position is not worth a second round pick? 

 

The Faulk trade was brought on due to him wanting a new contract. There was no question we were going to trade him, which alters the trade market a little. Also, we traded him for a pick in that subsequent draft (only a few months later), not after a season was played. Finally, we turned down better trade offers in order to trade Faulk to the Rams (Polian interview I remember reading). 

 

Moncrief's potential, his contract (1 year into his 4 year deal for a 3rd rounder), plus a team's need showcase 2nd round consideration. As a topper, we absolutely do not need to trade him. An offer of a 2nd rounder is probably what it would take for the team to listen. 

 

I am not saying trade depth because we have it, but we have it in spades on offense. I would not trade Moncrief for anything, but a 2nd would perk my ears up. It's a risk to trade depth, which is why the consideration has to match up. 

The point being a proven player who went on to be one of the best players in the NFL of that era only drew a second round pick.  You are expecting an unproven player to draw the same value.  To further that Bolden and a fifth rounder was traded for a third and fourth pick and when he was traded again he was traded for a sixth round pick, Holmes was traded for a fifth, Marshall off a very good season drew a second round pick when he was traded and when he was traded again it was a third round pick. 

 

Those are all WRs who were more proven than Moncrief is right now and they drew less than what you are asking for and in most cases they were also still young and had a lot of potential, especially when Bolden and Marshall were traded the first times.  While the Broncos got a second rounder for Marshall in came after he had an extremely good year for a WR and he had done a lot more than Moncrief has done. 

 

You aren't getting a second round draft pick for Moncrief.  If teams thought Moncrief's potential warranted a second round pick then a team would have drafted him in the second round because he hasn't done much on the field yet to show he has much more potential than was there when he was drafted. 

 

Also if he's worth a second round pick in your eyes that means he's a pretty darn good player and odds are that those talents are going to be better served with the Colts than he is going to be dealt for a second round pick, especially in a year where they are going all in in an attempt to win a Super Bowl. 

[Manning1887]

The point being a proven player who went on to be one of the best players in the NFL of that era only drew a second round pick.  You are expecting an unproven player to draw the same value.  To further that Bolden and a fifth rounder was traded for a third and fourth pick and when he was traded again he was traded for a sixth round pick, Holmes was traded for a fifth, Marshall off a very good season drew a second round pick when he was traded and when he was traded again it was a third round pick. 

 

Those are all WRs who were more proven than Moncrief is right now and they drew less than what you are asking for and in most cases they were also still young and had a lot of potential, especially when Bolden and Marshall were traded the first times.  While the Broncos got a second rounder for Marshall in came after he had an extremely good year for a WR and he had done a lot more than Moncrief has done. 

 

You aren't getting a second round draft pick for Moncrief.  If teams thought Moncrief's potential warranted a second round pick then a team would have drafted him in the second round because he hasn't done much on the field yet to show he has much more potential than was there when he was drafted. 

 

Also if he's worth a second round pick in your eyes that means he's a pretty darn good player and odds are that those talents are going to be better served with the Colts than he is going to be dealt for a second round pick, especially in a year where they are going all in in an attempt to win a Super Bowl. 

 

I understand what you both are saying, but your examples are all unique. Also consider that Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick to the Patriots, but he was a head case at the time. Bolden threatened to retire before being traded to the 49ers, and he had a contract that was coming up. Bolden is a very good receiver, but he is older and wants to be paid. You are not going to trade a high pick for a player in the last year of their contract. 

 

Moncrief is a building block type of receiver. A guy with the potential to be a strong #2 WR in this league. Again, his potential, his contract, and a team in need of a WR would consider a #2 to be a good investment for a guy that will be on their roster long term.

 

The main reason I would consider trading him is because a 2nd round pick holds more value to me than a #4 WR, and given our offensive playmakers, he may be 8th option. I like the potential of Duron Carter. I think Vincent Brown is an underrated WR. I really liked him coming out of San Diego State a few years ago. 

 

Most importantly, the 2nd round pick allows us to add a competent offensive lineman or even a highly rated defensive player next year. Given the strong WR drafts, I think we can add another solid  WR at some point in the draft. 

 

Again, with Faulk, he was threatening a holdout unless he got a new deal. That limits his value in trade. Plus, we are talking about 1999, not 2015, there is a vast difference. It is not always about how good a player is. The contract also comes into play. 

[GoColts8818]

I understand what you both are saying, but your examples are all unique. Also consider that Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick to the Patriots, but he was a head case at the time. Bolden threatened to retire before being traded to the 49ers, and he had a contract that was coming up. Bolden is a very good receiver, but he is older and wants to be paid. You are not going to trade a high pick for a player in the last year of their contract. 

 

Moncrief is a building block type of receiver. A guy with the potential to be a strong #2 WR in this league. Again, his potential, his contract, and a team in need of a WR would consider a #2 to be a good investment for a guy that will be on their roster long term.

 

The main reason I would consider trading him is because a 2nd round pick holds more value to me than a #4 WR, and given our offensive playmakers, he may be 8th option. I like the potential of Duron Carter. I think Vincent Brown is an underrated WR. I really liked him coming out of San Diego State a few years ago. 

 

Most importantly, the 2nd round pick allows us to add a competent offensive lineman or even a highly rated defensive player next year. Given the strong WR drafts, I think we can add another solid  WR at some point in the draft. 

 

Again, with Faulk, he was threatening a holdout unless he got a new deal. That limits his value in trade. Plus, we are talking about 1999, not 2015, there is a vast difference. It is not always about how good a player is. The contract also comes into play.

building blocks alone don't get you a second round pick in the NFL. To get that in the NFL you have to proven it on the field. Something that as of now Moncrief has not.

The Colts are interested in winning one, like right now this season. They aren't going to trade a player who can help them do that for a draft pick. That would go against everything they spent all off-season doing.

It's clear we disagree here. You asked what people thought of this trade option and the overwhelming answer your getting back is that it's unrealistic. So let's just agree to disagree and move on.

[Dark Superman]

Moncrief is our future along with hopefully Dorsett, Hilton and Carter. No way he's getting traded.

[CanuckColt]

The way things are going so well in camp with the WRs, the guy we should consider trading is T.Y.

We could get a boatload of picks from a receiver-needy team and solidify the roster for multiple Lombardi's.

[Gavin]

The way things are going so well in camp with the WRs, the guy we should consider trading is T.Y.

We could get a boatload of picks from a receiver-needy team and solidify the roster for multiple Lombardi's.

The last thing we need to do is trade one of our top 2 WR's based on what some rookies and a 2nd year player are doing in TC. the real test has not even begun yet for them. Right now they are being asked to follow instructions on drills, Run 7 on 7 and 11 on 11, Watch film of practices (As a team). Lift weights and see trainers for injuries/nicks/bruises........I mean sure things are going at a faster pace then what they are used to coming from college but the challenge really comes in preseason

[Dustin]

The way things are going so well in camp with the WRs, the guy we should consider trading is T.Y.

We could get a boatload of picks from a receiver-needy team and solidify the roster for multiple Lombardi's.

Be lucky to get a 3rd for TY.

[bananabucket]

 

Donte Moncrief: 2nd round pick