Colts will NOT Tender AQ Shipley

[Dustin]

That's kinda my thought about this.  I think Shipley is a bit of forum hero and he is over valued on the forum. I am not saying he's awful because he's not but he's far from this great player that some on this forum seem to think he is. 

 

What is with you people and this ridiculous strawman that people think he's a great player?

[GoColts8818]

Fact is he's not much better then the younger guys here. I don't know why so many think they know more then our HC and GM when they see them in practice everyday. if he was as good as people here seem to think don't ya think he wouldn't be getting cut?

and if he was teams would be tripping over themselves to sign him and the Ravens would have never released him after the Colts traded him to them.  He's a journeyman center who doesn't have the upside that Holmes and or Harrison can have as younger players.  He might be slightly better right now, and even that is up for debate as I think Holmes was the best of the bunch and the question should be why on earth did the Colts wait so long to go back to Holmes but that's another debate, but next year or the year after Holmes and or Harrison might very well be better and the only way they are going to get better is to play.  While the Colts are trying to win a Super Bowl now they are not turning a blind eye to the future either.  In fact they are doing both, trying to win a Super Bowl now as well as build a team that will compete for them over the next 10 years.

[lollygagger8]

Maybe he wiped a booger on Grigson's coat or something...? 

 

 

 

I think Shipley is good versatile depth since he can play center and guard. 

[ColtsLegacy]

Everyone outside the organization? Get real. The organizations has a lot more tape and sees this guy every day. So no everyone don't see anything the organization don't see. Opinions don't count.

Clearly hyperbole but most people who were paying any attention could see the line played the best at the start of the season when, coincidentally, AQ Shipley was playing.

[Superman]

 

AQ Shipley isn't that good. His advantage over Harrison is solely that he consistently snaps the ball where and when he's supposed to. That's big for a center -- you had one job to do! -- but it's also very fixable. His advantage over Holmes is probably just that he hasn't been hurt, but Holmes finished the season upright. Shipley was insufficient in making line calls and picking up inside blitzes; watch the Eagles game for an example.

 

He's the definition of a JAG. If he's still available after a few weeks, he can be re-signed for $660K, his vet minimum. There's no upside to hitting him with the lower tender when it's more than twice what he should probably be offered, and there's no compensation for us if he gets an offer from another team. The only real reason to tender him is if you think he has a market. I kind of thought they would, since he's good depth, but I'm not really surprised if they don't.

[crazycolt1]

 

AQ Shipley isn't that good. His advantage over Harrison is solely that he consistently snaps the ball where and when he's supposed to. That's big for a center -- you had one job to do! -- but it's also very fixable. His advantage over Holmes is probably just that he hasn't been hurt, but Holmes finished the season upright. Shipley was insufficient in making line calls and picking up inside blitzes; watch the Eagles game for an example.

 

He's the definition of a JAG. If he's still available after a few weeks, he can be re-signed for $660K, his vet minimum. There's no upside to hitting him with the lower tender when it's more than twice what he should probably be offered, and there's no compensation for us if he gets an offer from another team. The only real reason to tender him is if you think he has a market. I kind of thought they would, since he's good depth, but I'm not really surprised if they don't.

Very good explanation. I don't quite understand why there is such a difference in opinions on this guy. He hasn't taken the spot and made anyone think he is the man IMO.

[crazycolt1]

Clearly hyperbole but most people who were paying any attention could see the line played the best at the start of the season when, coincidentally, AQ Shipley was playing.

Now you think the coaching staff don't pay attention?  

[Superman]

Very good explanation. I don't quite understand why there is such a difference in opinions on this guy. He hasn't taken the spot and made anyone think he is the man IMO.

 

I think it's two things, primarily.

 

1) The offense was very productive the first month of the season, and the line looked pretty good. 

2) Everyone else who has played center for us over the last three seasons has been problematic, in one way or the other. Satele, McGlynn, Holmes, Harrison... all have warts. Shipley is a known commodity. 

 

Combine those two things, and I can understand why he has fans. I just don't think his ability is anything to be thrilled with.

[throwing BBZ]

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=indianapolis-colts&i=TWT&id=11092&w=1exa8

Holmes officially the future now? Maybe?

 

Will Shipley make any opening day roster is the question.

[ColtsLegacy]

Now you think the coaching staff don't pay attention?

. You're a great company man.

I suppose you think Satele and McGlynn were our best options for 2 years as well.

[RockThatBlue]

I guess I'll never understand the hate for Shipley the colts apparently have.

He's no great center, but the line for the most part played better with him, not to mention he actually knew how to snap the ball, which is kind of a big deal.

[RockThatBlue]

You would think that Shipley was an all pro or something the way some are talking about him. He evidently is not that good or the Colts would have kept him. The coaching staff sees these players on a day to day bases not on a couple of plays. I would think there would be more important and more interesting things to talk about besides a player who cant win and keep the position.

Nobody thinks he's an all pro. But he absolutely was our best option at center last year. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

[sundance75]

He is at his floor right now I'd say, Shipley has reached his ceiling

 

Are you REALLY saying Shipley reached his ceiling starting a total of 10 games at center his whole career.  And 5 of those games were without Colts training camp.  Well then I guess Harrison and Holmes have too because they have started more games than Shipley and the advantage of all of preseason camp

[theanarchist]

 The Ravens didn`t want him either because he didn`t play well. He didn`t get abused here for a couple games and he became our Mack. !

No one said he was Mack. no on has even eluded to that.

[DougDew]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were reports after our brutal loss to the Cowboys that Shipley wanted to leave Indy ASAP in the offseason?

You are correct. I don't recall the specific point of the season or the specific words...but something to the effect that he was "done with the organization" comes to mind. I don't know if he ever played in a game after that.

[theanarchist]

You are correct. I don't recall the specific point of the season or the specific words...but something to the effect that he was "done with the organization" comes to mind. I don't know if he ever played in a game after that.

Getting benched for lesser player and then standing on the sidelines while your team gets trounced probably had something to do with those comments.

[Gavin]

Are you REALLY saying Shipley reached his ceiling starting a total of 10 games at center his whole career.  And 5 of those games were without Colts training camp.  Well then I guess Harrison and Holmes have too because they have started more games than Shipley and the advantage of all of preseason camp

A players floor don't necessarily come with number of games played but comes with there physical abilities, An O Lineman who is not as mobile as another O Lineman for example don't have as a high a ceiling (assuming that the mobile O Lineman gets his technique down) as the mobile O Lineman

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Not surprising, Holmes played well when he played & Harrison has some talent. Shipley is solid but not great, the other 2 guys humm, have more upside and are bigger, I will say look the part. Shipley is short and stocky, not a physical specimen, but plays well That said if one them others struggle or gets hurt I believe he would be back.

[MTC]

Colts are gonna ride with Harrison and Holmes. Whatever.

[NewColtsFan]

Nobody thinks he's an all pro. But he absolutely was our best option at center last year. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

 

Sorry,   but it isn't hard to make an argument otherwise....

 

Holmes was our starter the last 6 games of the season,  including the playoffs.    The offense worked pretty well during that time.

 

Shipley was a nice stop-gap.

 

If Shipley was what you and others here say he is then the team would have signed him to a nice long-term deal.

 

But they didn't.   They have released him.   

 

I appreciate the "Rudy" story-line....   but this is not it.

 

It's time to move on....    Holmes or Harrison or a FA or a Draft pick.   

 

But Shipley was not who you thought he was......

[Warhorse]

"I know what I saw with my eyes"....does not take into consideration....

 

* size/script of plays open to the offense when a center comes in

* knowledge of playbook/line calls

* quality during weekly practice

* demeanor in the locker room

* attitude toward coaches and other players

* players possible voiced discontent or past indiscretions

* promises or warnings made by staff upon first contract

* relationship with the QB

* medical scans, scopes, and history

* and on and on.....

 

Is it possible that GM's have reached the level they have because they are that good at what they do and fans only see a smidgen of what they meed to make a decision?

 

Or is this board just full of fans who actually think they know more than an NFL level GM?

[Coffeedrinker]

 

AQ Shipley isn't that good. His advantage over Harrison is solely that he consistently snaps the ball where and when he's supposed to. That's big for a center -- you had one job to do! -- but it's also very fixable. His advantage over Holmes is probably just that he hasn't been hurt, but Holmes finished the season upright. Shipley was insufficient in making line calls and picking up inside blitzes; watch the Eagles game for an example.

 

He's the definition of a JAG. If he's still available after a few weeks, he can be re-signed for $660K, his vet minimum. There's no upside to hitting him with the lower tender when it's more than twice what he should probably be offered, and there's no compensation for us if he gets an offer from another team. The only real reason to tender him is if you think he has a market. I kind of thought they would, since he's good depth, but I'm not really surprised if they don't.

I agree, I was never as high on Shipley as many on here nor did I buy into his PFF grades.  But I was pretty vocal that when they started Harrison, I did not see the upgrade over Shipley.  I was told many times that I didn't understand line play and that he has all this upside, etc.  That upside did not pan out in 2014.

 

When AQ was the center, all to often you would see a guy go at Luck unblocked... that is either scheme or line calls.  Then with Harrison you would see a guy go at Luck unblocked and then Harrison's guy was beating him consistently.  At least with Holmes you did not see guys coming unblocked, he and the other lineman lost some one on one battles but there was no one so far out of position that a defender came untouched.  That is why Holmes was a big improvement, you would see Holmes and Luck talking, Luck would point at a defender and Holmes would shake his head and point at a different defender and Luck would nod his head, sometimes you could even hear him say, "yeah, yeah."

 

That being said, I think Shipley being benched and the press it got will actually help him this offseason.  Scouts for other teams will read the articles, see his PFF grades, look at some film of him (and probably Harrison to see if they can see a reason why he started over Ship).  I could see him going to KC if they do reup Hudson.

[Colts_Fan12]

Sorry, but it isn't hard to make an argument otherwise....

Holmes was our starter the last 6 games of the season, including the playoffs. The offense worked pretty well during that time.

Shipley was a nice stop-gap.

If Shipley was what you and others here say he is then the team would have signed him to a nice long-term deal.

But they didn't. They have released him.

I appreciate the "Rudy" story-line.... but this is not it.

It's time to move on.... Holmes or Harrison or a FA or a Draft pick.

But Shipley was not who you thought he was......

I'd give more likes if I was able NCF!!! Great post

[IndyD4U]

He's replaceable. He stepped in when needed and definitely played better than Harrison, but I think Holmes finally solidified his spot.

[Superman]

I agree, I was never as high on Shipley as many on here nor did I buy into his PFF grades.  But I was pretty vocal that when they started Harrison, I did not see the upgrade over Shipley.  I was told many times that I didn't understand line play and that he has all this upside, etc.  That upside did not pan out in 2014.

 

When AQ was the center, all to often you would see a guy go at Luck unblocked... that is either scheme or line calls.  Then with Harrison you would see a guy go at Luck unblocked and then Harrison's guy was beating him consistently.  At least with Holmes you did not see guys coming unblocked, he and the other lineman lost some one on one battles but there was no one so far out of position that a defender came untouched.  That is why Holmes was a big improvement, you would see Holmes and Luck talking, Luck would point at a defender and Holmes would shake his head and point at a different defender and Luck would nod his head, sometimes you could even hear him say, "yeah, yeah."

 

That being said, I think Shipley being benched and the press it got will actually help him this offseason.  Scouts for other teams will read the articles, see his PFF grades, look at some film of him (and probably Harrison to see if they can see a reason why he started over Ship).  I could see him going to KC if they do reup Hudson.

 

Harrison has physical traits and abilities that Shipley doesn't. Once or twice a game, you'll see an outrageous feat of strength from him, a flat-out dominant block that makes you understand why so many people are talking about how strong he is. His problem is he's technically deficient -- poor balance and poor hand placement -- and seems to lack focus. Assuming those things are fixable, I see him as having a higher ceiling than Shipley. Or, he might lack the mental aptitude to grasp and retain coaching, in which case, he'll always be prone to mistakes.

 

To the bolded, I don't think there's any scheme that purposely allows the A-gap to be breached. Protections are prioritized from inside out, to create a pocket.

 

And maybe you're right about Shipley's market, but I doubt it. The attention to his benching was an Indy thing, local media, bloggers, and fans. And PFF, who really like Shipley. But not a national story. And he was highly rated by PFF and locals in 2012, before he was traded. But when he was on waivers in September, at least 26 teams passed on him. So I don't think he has a strong market. Brian de la Puente sat on the market for a month last year, then signed for vet minimum. The Colts staff was very well aware of how that went. To tender Shipley at $1.5m is probably paying double for him. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Harrison has physical traits and abilities that Shipley doesn't. Once or twice a game, you'll see an outrageous feat of strength from him, a flat-out dominant block that makes you understand why so many people are talking about how strong he is. His problem is he's technically deficient -- poor balance and poor hand placement -- and seems to lack focus. Assuming those things are fixable, I see him as having a higher ceiling than Shipley. Or, he might lack the mental aptitude to grasp and retain coaching, in which case, he'll always be prone to mistakes.

 

To the bolded, I don't think there's any scheme that purposely allows the A-gap to be breached. Protections are prioritized from inside out, to create a pocket.

 

And maybe you're right about Shipley's market, but I doubt it. The attention to his benching was an Indy thing, local media, bloggers, and fans. And PFF, who really like Shipley. But not a national story. And he was highly rated by PFF and locals in 2012, before he was traded. But when he was on waivers in September, at least 26 teams passed on him. So I don't think he has a strong market. Brian de la Puente sat on the market for a month last year, then signed for vet minimum. The Colts staff was very well aware of how that went. To tender Shipley at $1.5m is probably paying double for him. 

A few points.

 

I don't think there is any scheme that purposely allows gaps open.  But I do think there are bad blocking schemes that can be exploited like that when other teams study it.  For example, one thing that 3-4 defenses did a lot against Harrison and Shipley, they would line a nT over the guard and bring then the DE or DT between the the guard and tackle on the other side, they would then bring a LB up between the center and guard, so one the Dline it would be DT (or DE), LB, NT, DE(or DT),  At the snap one guard takes the DT, the other guard takes the NT, the center would step in front of the LB, that LB would drop back into coverage and the other linebacker would come right through the spot where the center just vacated.  That is a big scheme problem, it wasn't done to allow that guy to come through but the D saw how everyone would react and how to exploit it and it wasn't until late in the season that the scheme changed.  Instead of having the center step in front of the LB he would maintain his position and just stick out an arm, so if that LB came then that would slow him down enough for the center to get position on him.  They also had the guard direct the NT towards the center to help narrow the lane if the other LB tried to come and if he did then the center was in a better position to pick him up.

 

Also, I don't think the Colts should have tendered Shipley either, especially not at 1.5.  But I think he will be picked up by a team, probably before OTAs and definitely before training camp.

 

Lastly, Harrison did appear strong and he has some tools to work with but I don't think he will ever be anything more than a solid back-up center.  He his too slow in the lower body, he has too much tunnel vision and does not appear to be mentally quick enough on his feet to process the game action.

[Superman]

At the snap one guard takes the DT, the other guard takes the NT, the center would step in front of the LB, that LB would drop back into coverage and the other linebacker would come right through the spot where the center just vacated. 

 

Good points all the way around.

 

Just to comment on the above, if your center has either limited range (Shipley, due to foot speed and arm length) or limited vision, awareness and recognition (Harrison, due to heaven knows what), then that scheme is going to eat you up. But there's hope for the guy with limited vision, awareness and recognition, whereas the other guy isn't going to get faster and grow longer arms.

 

And at Florida, Harrison was known for having good awareness and doing a good job of picking up stunts and blitzes. So being optimistic that he can get it figured out in the pros is reasonable.

 

Meanwhile, we have this one guy who seems to be good at setting protections, picking up inside rushers, and getting back to the other side on delayed blitzes. He just disappointed the staff with his recovery from a preseason injury (conjecture). To me, it's all about Holmes. Harrison's best chance of making the team in 2015 is showing that he can play guard, IMO.

[evilleseniorfan]

Shipley only made $500K.  Hard to imagine letting him go at that cheap of a price.

Are Holmes and Harrison flexible enough to move to OG?

[pgt_rob]

Shipley was just a filler guy but did the job decently. I like Khaled Holmes but he needs a lot of work and time to himself to get healthy again. Harrison was a sight... He needs more work as well. I can't go another season with an underwhelming center and right guard.

[crazycolt1]

. You're a great company man.

I suppose you think Satele and McGlynn were our best options for 2 years as well.

There is another mistake. You supposing anything I think.

[crazycolt1]

Nobody thinks he's an all pro. But he absolutely was our best option at center last year. I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise.

That don't seem to be the opinion of those who make the determination on who stays and who goes.

[CanuckColt]

Kinda sad to see...the guy gives it his all...he is OK at center but a liability at guard...Grigs wants guys who can play both.

[ColtsLegacy]

There is another mistake. You supposing anything I think.

 

Silly me.

[jimmy g]

I think Shipley is a bit of forum hero and he is over valued on the forum.

can DaRick Rogers play center????

[Ohio Colt]

We need a center so badly. I hope they have a true plan. Thought Shipley was one of the best centers in his class when he came out of college.

 

I want Wisniewski

[rock8591]

AQ Shipley is wildly overrated by a lot of forum posters, likely the same types that hyped up Da'Rick Rogers repeatedly. They're essentially undrafted FAs with no trade value and would not make the vast majority of teams as 2nd string.