Would you be opposed to trading Fleener?

[ProblChld32]

Another Trade Fleener Thread  ? 

[BlueShoe]

Don't take this personal because its not...But I think we have different ideas of what blocking well is...at least when it comes to Fleener, In my opinion he has gotten a bit better yes but he still has no business blocking in my opinion

 

Yes. We have different ideas of what blocking well is.

 

No. I do not take it personal. 

[HeSoColt]

Bacarri Rambo was released, anyone love him?

 

He is awful! Legit awful... being from VA, I see alot of Redskins stuff. He does nothing well or average.

[21isSuperman]

Yeah I know and the fact that he would be joining a team that's had an extensive injury history in recent years would even freak me out more.

This is true

[supremecoltsfan300]

Fleener/2nd for Chandler Jones(he can cover TE), NE needs a TE, Jones is pretty good at cover and can presure the QB.

Jones is one of the better players in the league and is a cornerstone on that pats defense. No way would they trade him. plus they have 3 tight ends already.

[Coffeedrinker]

Raiders for MacFadden? SEA for 1 of their backup guards

Some more evidence that you are not a better GM than Grigson.

 

I know you asked for "one post" but you do provide a lot of examples.

 

The truly funny thing is, I don't think Grigson is that good of a GM but I do know you would be much worse for the Colts or any team... including arena league, any college program, semi-pro, high school programs, a back yard pick up game of neighborhood kids...

[cm43sports]

Rogers can't get on the field with Luck to much talent in front of him he is 6th on the depth chart. He does look great against 2/3 teamers I will give you that.

 

I think people really over value what  we have in Fleener he is a pass catching TE that doesn't catch the ball well in traffic. I prefer Doyle at least there is the threat that he will block someone.

 

Why would the Browns want to trade a 1st for Fleener? They have a TE that is a lot better than him I know it is Cleveland but trading a first for a back up TE is crazy even for them.

I mentioned the Browns because they need receiving weapons and ideally Fleener can play tight end and also be flexed out as a wide receiver. Essentially he's Devin Funchess except he's already in the NFL. I also said that such a trade would likely require a second round and possibly a third round pick.

[Jason_]

To the OP, it would depend on what we'd get in return.  I would entertain certain offers but would not get rid of Fleener just to get rid of him like some would.

 

Yes. Doubt they'd agree to it.

Wonder if NE would part with Dennard for him

 

Why would we need another CB? 

 

You wanna package him and Da Rick for a bag of chips and a soda. The guy can't catch the ball in traffic not good for a TE and is not a good blocker. Rogers and Fleener are popular in Indy don't see much value for those two in the real world.

 

I would love to see mostly Allen and more Doyle.

 

That is simply not true.  

[akcolt]

OK he can but doesn't catch the ball in traffic   

 

 

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

As always it depends on the return, but I worry with Fleener that we may already have seen his ceiling and he isn't going to get marginally better at this point. In my eyes, this would make a prime target to move, presumably for a piece on D. He is still young and his value is probably at his peak.

[ColtsLegacy]

We wouldn't get much value for him because he has little value as of now.

[ColtsLegacy]

...

Somewhere over Dwayne Bowe*

[Jason_]

 

OK he can but doesn't catch the ball in traffic   

 

 

 

 

Well that's not true either

[chrisfarley]

No, for:

Jimmy Graham

[DougDew]

No.  If anything, I would trade Allen.

 

Just going by last game, Doyle got short passes thrown to him, and tough YAC.  He also played FB.  Essentially, he did the the things Allen does, just as well as Allen does them.

 

Fleener is a down the seem guy, and doesn't play FB.

 

The performance of Doyle makes Allen more expendible than Fleener.

 

But, I doubt that we would get much for Allen...our second TE....because the NFL values down the seem TEs like Fleener more than they do possession TEs like Allen/Doyle.

 

Trading Fleener makes sense only if you don't want to have a big-chunk yardage receiver/TE on the roster.

[akcolt]

As always it depends on the return, but I worry with Fleener that we may already have seen his ceiling and he isn't going to get marginally better at this point. In my eyes, this would make a prime target to move, presumably for a piece on D. He is still young and his value is probably at his peak.

What do you think his value is?

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

What do you think his value is?

I honestly don't think it's that high. In my eyes, and maybe this will change, Fleener hasn't show anything that makes me think he will a top tight end. Right now, I think he is about an average receiving tight end. However, he is young and a high pick so I could see him generating some interest.

[BOTT]

No.  If anything, I would trade Allen.

 

Just going by last game, Doyle got short passes thrown to him, and tough YAC.  He also played FB.  Essentially, he did the the things Allen does, just as well as Allen does them.

 

Fleener is a down the seem guy, and doesn't play FB.

 

The performance of Doyle makes Allen more expendible than Fleener.

 

But, I doubt that we would get much for Allen...our second TE....because the NFL values down the seem TEs like Fleener more than they do possession TEs like Allen/Doyle.

 

Trading Fleener makes sense only if you don't want to have a big-chunk yardage receiver/TE on the roster.

Yeah....no

[cm43sports]

No.  If anything, I would trade Allen.

 

Just going by last game, Doyle got short passes thrown to him, and tough YAC.  He also played FB.  Essentially, he did the the things Allen does, just as well as Allen does them.

 

Fleener is a down the seem guy, and doesn't play FB.

 

The performance of Doyle makes Allen more expendible than Fleener.

 

But, I doubt that we would get much for Allen...our second TE....because the NFL values down the seem TEs like Fleener more than they do possession TEs like Allen/Doyle.

 

Trading Fleener makes sense only if you don't want to have a big-chunk yardage receiver/TE on the roster.

Allen is well rounded and good possession target that can reliably move the chains. Fleener is a hit-or-miss target that whose biggest asset is that he can be flexed out wide as a wide receiver but that's negated given how many quality receivers we have. I think that once Allen begins regaining some of his speed he'll return to being the number one tight end.

[dudeski]

If we trade Fleener we'll get pennies on the dollar back in terms of value.

All we have to do with Fleener is use him properly, which we have yet to do this season......

using him properly is correct. We haven't used him properly. He should be on the bench. That is using him properly

[dudeski]

No. If anything, I would trade Allen.

Just going by last game, Doyle got short passes thrown to him, and tough YAC. He also played FB. Essentially, he did the the things Allen does, just as well as Allen does them.

Fleener is a down the seem guy, and doesn't play FB.

The performance of Doyle makes Allen more expendible than Fleener.

But, I doubt that we would get much for Allen...our second TE....because the NFL values down the seem TEs like Fleener more than they do possession TEs like Allen/Doyle.

Trading Fleener makes sense only if you don't want to have a big-chunk yardage receiver/TE on the roster.

have you ever seen a colts game?

[Jhaze55]

This thread again?

*Moonwalks out of thread*

 

Ironic, because all I've seen you post about since Monday is how bad Pep is.

 

Sounds familiar..   

[dudeski]

Ironic, because all I've seen you post about since Monday is how bad Pep is.

Sounds familiar..

he admittedly doesn't even watch the games. Wouldn't concern myself with his opinions

[relishfunk]

I don't think anyone wants this...

Fleener: "Wait, come back!!!"

[BProland85]

If we are comfortable with Allen and Doyle as our 2 TEs, and Luck is ok with the trade being that he and Fleener are buds, then I'd be all for this trade...

 

Indy trades TE Coby Fleener to Seattle for OLB Bruce Irvin

 

(I think this trade works for both teams since Seattle needs a talented TE while Indy needs added pass rush. Irvin hasn't been vital to Seattle and they could easily survive without him. However, his talent would be a good fit at the rush LB spot. Seattle is probably one of the better places to trade for a pass rusher since they have so much depth.

[oldunclemark]

Stop talking about Trading Coby Fleener....

He's a 3rd year tight end who's been effective for us..and is under contract

Its not going to happen

[Colts_Fan12]

Coby Fleener - Dion Jordan/6th.

I wish just don't see them taking that

[DougDew]

Yeah....no

What are you saying "no" to.  Trading Allen, or the idea that Doyle and Allen have been playing the same role this season?

 

I wouldn't trade Allen.  I'd leave the TE situation the way it is.  But people just aren't seeing that if you trade Fleener, we'd be losing the only big chunk TE we have.  Should he be traded?  If so, ...then we'd need to get another TE to replace his role, cuz Allen and Doyle aren't that guy.

 

The knock on Allen coming out of college is that he is shorter and slower than what you want in a big chunk receiving TE.  Fleener is the downfield guy, and Allen is the possession guy/blocker/FB.

 

The competition is between Allen and Doyle, not Allen and Fleener.  I think people think of Fleener and Doyle as being the same simply because they are both white.  They play two completely different roles.

 

The question should be "should we trade Allen for a pass rusher?"  I say no.

[DougDew]

have you ever seen a colts game?

Where was I wrong in the difference in the role the three TE's are playing?  Does Fleener line up at FB?

[DougDew]

Allen is well rounded and good possession target that can reliably move the chains. Fleener is a hit-or-miss target that whose biggest asset is that he can be flexed out wide as a wide receiver but that's negated given how many quality receivers we have. I think that once Allen begins regaining some of his speed he'll return to being the number one tight end.

Well..who is number one and number two depends upon the roles they are playing.  TEs like Fleener are more valuable than TEs like Allen these days...that's the way the NFL sees it....which is why Fleener was drafted ahead of Allen. That's the basis for calling Fleener the first TE, however, Fleener is performing subpar in his role as the big chunk "number 1" TE.  In that sense, Allen wasn't drafted to be the "number 1" TE.   He runs a 4.8 when healthy. 

 

If Fleener is traded, the Colts would have to replace him with someone other than Allen..putting Allen again in the secondary role behind the new guy.....unless the Colts change the offense and have one traditional TE, which Allen fits very well, and Doyle could be the backup.

[Bobbycovert]

You wanna package him and Da Rick for a bag of chips and a soda. The guy can't catch the ball in traffic not good for a TE and is not a good blocker. Rogers and Fleener are popular in Indy don't see much value for those two in the real world.

 

I would love to see mostly Allen and more Doyle.

     I don't get where your're coming from on this one. To me, pairing Allen and Doyle would be a pretty redundant unless the team is really going to just commit to the conservative ground and pound game plans.  I like the idea of having two tight-ends that are more complimentary.  

     As far as Allen goes, I'm not sure what others are seeing.  Aside from his blocking he's really been pretty unremarkable this year; not terribly quick and doesn't seem to get separation.  To me, the hometown bias for Fleener you suggested is just as real for Allen.  I don't know if its skill, health, gameplan or something else but neither tightend has looked particularly valuable in the passing game so far.

[dgambill]

How about we play a WHOLE season with him and Allen and see how it works out. This is the first time we've had them on the field together with Pep and they know what they are suppose to be doing. Besides...we are 1 injury away from being in bad shape. We have two young good TEs and a nice young blocking TE. We need 3..we have 3. Lets not take a strength and make a weakness out of it. We will have to generate a pass rush with Walden, Werner, and some blitz packages.

[ColtsHoosiersBB]

Fleener is a tall receiver and not a TE IMO. Nice hands but not enough

power to pull a hat off your head.

[ColtsLegacy]

Where was I wrong in the difference in the role the three TE's are playing? Does Fleener line up at FB?

Most of your post was wrong but here's the biggest moment, "Essentially, he (Jack Doyle) did the the things Allen does, just as well as Allen does them". Doyle had a solid game (blocking) but to imply that one solid game with 2 receptions makes him as good as Allen, making Allen expendable, is flat out dumb and erroneous.

Also, when has Fleener ever been a down the seam TE for us? We all want him to be that but he never has been that for us, thus far. The fact of the matter is that Allen is far better at pretty much every aspect of the TE position than Fleener. And Doyle had a solid blocking game but it's a joke to say he can do everything at Dwayne Allen's level.

Dwayne Allen would, however, be the only TE that would be worth anything on the trading block. Fleener isn't fetching us anything in a trade.

[ColtsLegacy]

Well that's not true either

He's extremely unreliable in traffic and he's pretty much the last guy I want Luck to target in a crucial situation.

I think you know I used to defend him with you but he's just not improving.

[fvantagio]

Well..who is number one and number two depends upon the roles they are playing.  TEs like Fleener are more valuable than TEs like Allen these days...that's the way the NFL sees it....which is why Fleener was drafted ahead of Allen. That's the basis for calling Fleener the first TE, however, Fleener is performing subpar in his role as the big chunk "number 1" TE.  In that sense, Allen wasn't drafted to be the "number 1" TE.   He runs a 4.8 when healthy. 

 

If Fleener is traded, the Colts would have to replace him with someone other than Allen..putting Allen again in the secondary role behind the new guy.....unless the Colts change the offense and have one traditional TE, which Allen fits very well, and Doyle could be the backup.

Could care less about what there draft profiles or measurables where coming out of college. Since they've been in Indy Allen has proven to be a better YAC receiver, better on the deep ball, better blocker..both run and pass blocking. Plays the game faster, stronger and smarter then Fleener. Proving why measurements alone dont make a player at this level. D Allen has been playing TE since HS and it shows in all aspects of his game. Across the board he is better then Fleener. Even with Fleeners height and speed advantage, thats a fact.

[Dark Superman]

Flee we did throw some good blocks in that Eagles game. I would like to see the Colts allow him to run deeper routes though and take advantage of his speed and height.

[akcolt]

     I don't get where your're coming from on this one. To me, pairing Allen and Doyle would be a pretty redundant unless the team is really going to just commit to the conservative ground and pound game plans.  I like the idea of having two tight-ends that are more complimentary.  

     As far as Allen goes, I'm not sure what others are seeing.  Aside from his blocking he's really been pretty unremarkable this year; not terribly quick and doesn't seem to get separation.  To me, the hometown bias for Fleener you suggested is just as real for Allen.  I don't know if its skill, health, gameplan or something else but neither tightend has looked particularly valuable in the passing game so far.

I was just saying all this talk about trading Fleener for a starting S or a pass rusher is ridiculous. I think this board has a much higher opinion of Fleener and Rogers than the rest of the NFL. You could package them both and not come away with a starter. Meanwhile we have guys posting that Fleener is going to net us first rounder next year or some how help get someone on the back end. It seems crazy. He isn' t that good.

 

Doyle seems to be able to do what Fleener can't in short yardage situations especially not give away if it is a pass or unsuccessful run because he can actually block. To me that is about the only time to have 2 TE's on the field at the same time. I would run TY Hicks 87 and Allen for the majority of the time but I am not in charge. I think Fleener is way over valued by our fans.

 

Roger's is not a star in the league far from it neither is Fleener again far from not sure what hometown bias  you are talking about. I would go with game plan as the problem 

[Bobbycovert]

I was just saying all this talk about trading Fleener for a starting S or a pass rusher is ridiculous. I think this board has a much higher opinion of Fleener and Rogers than the rest of the NFL. You could package them both and not come away with a starter. Meanwhile we have guys posting that Fleener is going to net us first rounder next year or some how help get someone on the back end. It seems crazy. He isn' t that good.

 

Doyle seems to be able to do what Fleener can't in short yardage situations especially not give away if it is a pass or unsuccessful run because he can actually block. To me that is about the only time to have 2 TE's on the field at the same time. I would run TY Hicks 87 and Allen for the majority of the time but I am not in charge. I think Fleener is way over valued by our fans.

 

Roger's is not a star in the league far from it neither is Fleener again far from not sure what hometown bias  you are talking about. I would go with game plan as the problem 

      I think I understand your meaning better now.  I was under the impression that you felt that Doyle could fill the same role as Fleener..I agree that the loss of Fleener would change the offensive philosophy to some degree.  

   

      The bias I was talking about is related to the idea that Fleener is vastly inferior to Allen.  To be honest, the offense is so out of sorts right now that it is tough to judge much of anything.  I just think that neither TE has done enough yet to distinguish himself from the other overall.  So far I see them as complementary pieces that are both being mismanaged. 

[akcolt]

      I think I understand your meaning better now.  I was under the impression that you felt that Doyle could fill the same role as Fleener..I agree that the loss of Fleener would change the offensive philosophy to some degree.  

   

      The bias I was talking about is related to the idea that Fleener is vastly inferior to Allen.  To be honest, the offense is so out of sorts right now that it is tough to judge much of anything.  I just think that neither TE has done enough yet to distinguish himself from the other overall.  So far I see them as complementary pieces that are both being mismanaged. 

I would take it a step farther and say the entire offense is being mismanaged. It will be interesting to see how we do vs the Jags.