Fleener -- cool stat

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I remember Pagano saying prior to the season that Fleener's stats would double in his 2nd year....

 

"During the 2013 OTAs, Chuck Pagano said he expected

Coby Fleener to double his rookie production of 26 catches for 281 yards.

Fleener did just that (52 catches for 608 yards in 2013) but that came at the expense of losing Dwayne Allen after one game."

 

Pretty amazing, exactly double his catches and just barely went over doubling his yardage.

 

In some ways, I have to think Fleener's 'forced emergence' this season will be awesome next year for 2 reasons: (1) Teams will have to respect Fleener going into the season and (2) If Allen comes back fully healthy, he can potentially start the season 'under the radar', which should mean when teams learn how good he is after a few weeks, it will be a 'pick-your-poison' scenario for opposing D's when it comes to decide whether to focus on Fleener, Allen or TY/Whalen/Brazzill/potential newcomer in the slot.

[BrentMc11]

Allen will make a huge impact on the offense.  He will make each tackle even better when he lines up in traditional sets..weak side vs strong side.  Fleener got a little swagger this year...still some key drops, but he will have more next year as well.  We are in great shape at TE IMO

[Andy]

I'm happy to see Fleener quiet a lot of doubters. Last year, I was indifferent about Fleener, but loved his potential, and was hoping he would take a step forward this year.

 

He definitely did that, as you mentioned with the doubling of the stats, and his very low drop rate. He still needs to work on some things, but next year will only be his 3rd year, and the 2nd in this offense. I think he can get a lot better, EVEN with Allen in the lineup. 

[Kyle]

Fleener came along A LOT this year.

 

Maybe Fleener can be our Jimmy Graham and Allen can be our Vernon Davis.  ya ya ya, i know that was a stretch but fun to think about 2 TEs like that on the same offense.

[AntonMcG]

Allen will make a huge impact on the offense.  He will make each tackle even better when he lines up in traditional sets..weak side vs strong side.  Fleener got a little swagger this year...still some key drops, but he will have more next year as well.  We are in great shape at TE IMO

 

He had one drop.

[BrentMc11]

He had one drop.

HMMM...I must have been sleeping.  Catchable vs. drop is a fine line.  I could have sworn I saw a stat earlier that said he had more but I will take your word for it!!

[lollygagger8]

Fleener and Allen will be a lethal combo next year. There's no defense in the league that could cover Fleener, Allen, Wayne, T.Y. and ______ (Rogers, Whalen, Brazil) all at the same time. 

 

[BrentMc11]

Fleener and Allen will be a lethal combo next year. There's no defense in the league that could cover Fleener, Allen, Wayne, T.Y. and ______ (Rogers, Whalen, Brazil) all at the same time. 

 

I said last year with Allen and Ballard and Bradshaw/Brown....we would virtually score at will...WILL we ever see them all healthy?  With a respectable...OL?  This guy thinks so.....and this guy too....but he lies a lot.

 

[Indygal1218]

HMMM...I must have been sleeping. Catchable vs. drop is a fine line. I could have sworn I saw a stat earlier that said he had more but I will take your word for it!!

I'm not. I'm pretty sure there was more than one.

[Valpo2004]

If Allen is out there playing TE it gives us Fleener as an option to split out wide.  

[OffensivelyPC]

I'm not. I'm pretty sure there was more than one.

Regardless, it was still a pretty low amount.  According to this website - http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/ - he had 2 with a 2.3 drop percentage.  I crunched some numbers, and I can't remember, but he was like 6th among tight ends with at least 60 targets (give or take a few targets, can't remember where I cut it off at)in drop percentage.

[Caleb3502]

I'm not. I'm pretty sure there was more than one.

I think Fleener had the second best drop rate among TEs.  I think Tony Gonzalez had the best.

[beavis]

It will help him a lot when Luck stops focusing on 1 receiver.

[Dustin]

Fleener dropped 1 pass all year.

[Dark Superman]

Fleener will even have more success with a strong running game and the return of Allen and Wayne and hopefully Rogers improves.. And Lucks ability to scramble. This offense could be dominant.

[IndyScribe]

Fleener will even have more success with a strong running game and the return of Allen and Wayne and hopefully Rogers improves.. And Lucks ability to scramble. This offense could be dominant.

Yeah. Allen going down really hurt Pep's offense, and he only had one TE to rely on. Now that Allen is back, Luck can start using those dangerous 2 TE plays that worked well. Wayne is coming back, and our receivers will get a whole offseason with the Colts. Richardson gets a whole offseason. D-Thomas and Ballard are back, not to mention any players that Grigson signs through FA, or drafts.

[BrentMc11]

Fleener dropped 1 pass all year.

I think I read that somewhere here...HMMM...

[dgambill]

The offense has soo much potential I believe if we upgrade the middle of our OL. We have a ton of good young talent...QB,RB,WRS,TE...they just need to focus on the trenches and continue building that defense. I know we feel like losing Reggie without an heir apparant will be a huge detriment but by the end of the year we showed we can move the ball on offense even without him. We need a consistant run game to take the ball out of Lucks hands so he doesn't have to throw on 3rd and longs and a defense that gets after the qb outside of Mathis. Run and stop the run...we have potential..we just have to realize it. Good thing was all the injuries caused lots of people to get valuable experience and when they all start playing together we will be even better...and if we do have guys go down...we won't take 5 or 6 weeks for people to step up.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I thought as the season went on he continued to get better. More confident. Him & Allen next year could be a match up nightmare for teams.

[wig]

I think I read that somewhere here...HMMM...

You read incorrectly, fortunately.

[BleedBlu8792]

If there was one injury I wish the Colts could wipe away, it was D.Allen's. He gave the offense such a different dimension in terms of blocking and receiving that we REALLY missed. This guy has the potential to be the best all around TE in the league, and very soon. That's a player that's hard to overcome, especially with what the Colts were trying to do on offense.

[theanarchist]

Allen will make a huge impact on the offense.  He will make each tackle even better when he lines up in traditional sets..weak side vs strong side.  Fleener got a little swagger this year...still some key drops, but he will have more next year as well.  We are in great shape at TE IMO

Agree. We have 2 real good TE's. Each are different in the style of play. I see Allen like more of a traditional TE who has a better all around game than Fleener. Fleener is more of a modern TE where he is more of a oversized WR. They both bring something good to the table and hopefully Pep can find ways of getting the ball to both of them.

[BrentMc11]

You read incorrectly, fortunately.

????? Two people said one drop...what is your point?  I said I was wrong.

[BrentMc11]

Agree. We have 2 real good TE's. Each are different in the style of play. I see Allen like more of a traditional TE who has a better all around game than Fleener. Fleener is more of a modern TE where he is more of a oversized WR. They both bring something good to the table and hopefully Pep can find ways of getting the ball to both of them.

Exactly!  2 TE sets are back with Fleener a little bit of...Everywhere.  

[IndyTrav]

Yea, I think it was neat that he did infact "double" his production. But Im truly not impressed by it. I think he will be an average TE, who has decent games, then disappears. 

 

As for "doubling" his production. It came at the expense of Reggie Wayne going down early. Dwayne Allen missing an entire year, and DHB deciding  he couldn't start on a HS Varsity team....Not to mention he was playing with his college OC, and his college QB....And while he did show improvement, when that many things "go your way", I expect better than to be 14th in rec,13th in yards, 17th in TDs, 12th in 1st downs among TEs, which is essentially middle of the road. 

 

I just dont know that he is ever going to be anything more than average....

[Jason_]

Yea, I think it was neat that he did infact "double" his production. But Im truly not impressed by it. I think he will be an average TE, who has decent games, then disappears. 

 

As for "doubling" his production. It came at the expense of Reggie Wayne going down early. Dwayne Allen missing an entire year, and DHB deciding  he couldn't start on a HS Varsity team....Not to mention he was playing with his college OC, and his college QB....And while he did show improvement, when that many things "go your way", I expect better than to be 14th in rec,13th in yards, 17th in TDs, 12th in 1st downs among TEs, which is essentially middle of the road. 

 

I just dont know that he is ever going to be anything more than average....

 

You don't think that, just maybe, Wayne going down, Allen missing the entire year and DHB being a non factor hindered Fleener's chances? Sure, that should have opened up more opportunities for Fleener, but it also meant that defenses didn't have to worry about covering Wayne, Allen or DHB.  Defenses could focus on Hilton and Fleener and force someone else to step up...which didn't happen for several games.

[IndyTrav]

You don't think that, just maybe, Wayne going down, Allen missing the entire year and DHB being a non factor hindered Fleener's chances? Sure, that should have opened up more opportunities for Fleener, but it also meant that defenses didn't have to worry about covering Wayne, Allen or DHB.  Defenses could focus on Hilton and Fleener and force someone else to step up...which didn't happen for several games.

 

Not really no. 

 

Before the Wayne injury, Fleener was avg about 4.5 targets per game, pulling in 3.1......After the Wayne injury he was avg about 6.1 targets per game, and pulling in 3.3. 

 

I dont think a single team we played this year went into a game saying "we have to stop Fleener."

[CroatianColtsFan21]

Still not impressed with fleenOr..

[Dustin]

Not really no. 

 

Before the Wayne injury, Fleener was avg about 4.5 targets per game, pulling in 3.1......After the Wayne injury he was avg about 6.1 targets per game, and pulling in 3.3. 

 

I dont think a single team we played this year went into a game saying "we have to stop Fleener."

 

Luck averaged about 6 more pass attempts a game after Wayne got injured. 

[Danfish98]

You always hear when a big receiver gets injured that it's a great opportunity for another guy to step up.  While that is true, expecting higher production from someone because of injuries is a bit unfair.  Once Allen went down the only TE we had that has any future in this league as a receiver was Fleener.  We knew that and every team we played knew that.  While that increases the number of opportunities, it also increases the amount the defense keys in on you.  When Reggie went down it took awhile for TY to start putting up decent numbers again.  Part of that was TY getting better but a bigger part was that other guys started stepping up.  Any halfway decent defense in the NFL can shut down 1 guy if they decide to (look at a couple games this year when Jimmy Graham was shut down for a perfect example of this).  In a lot of ways, the fact that Fleener doubled his production with all the injuries is more impressive than if he had done the same without the injuries.  If the key players on offense can stay healthy next year the Colts should put up epic numbers. Probably not Broncos epic numbers but top 3 to 5 in the league numbers.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Fleener dropped 1 pass all year.

but god that drop may have cost is that game. .... I still remember it the chargers all but gave us a touchdown b4 the half.. However love fleener just reminiscing

[Jason_]

Not really no. 

 

Before the Wayne injury, Fleener was avg about 4.5 targets per game, pulling in 3.1......After the Wayne injury he was avg about 6.1 targets per game, and pulling in 3.3. 

 

I dont think a single team we played this year went into a game saying "we have to stop Fleener."

 

Simply looking at stats will in no way give you an idea of how the opposing defenses played Fleener and Hilton.  However, having said that, the numbers you posted do actually support my theory.  Prior to Wayne getting injured, Fleener was catching a larger percentage of passes thrown his way whereas he was only catching about half of what came his way after Wayne went out.  Because teams could focus more on covering him knowing that he and Hilton were the only 2 real big play threats at the time.  Therefore tougher coverage made passes more difficult to catch, which would explain why his catch percentage went down.

[colts_mp]

If Allen and Wayne play all year, Fleenor would have put up the same numbers as last year.  He'll have alot to prove next year.

[coltsfanatic24]

Fleener was much improved this year but i thought he could have did a lot more. As big and fast as he is sometimes he plays like he's 6'2 230 lbs instead of 6'6 250 lbs. He has the size and speed over every LB with the exception of Willis, Bowman, Kuechly and Wagner. Every other LB he should get 75+ yards on every game, he has the talent to do it he just needs to learn how to use his size as an advantage.

[IndyTrav]

Simply looking at stats will in no way give you an idea of how the opposing defenses played Fleener and Hilton.  However, having said that, the numbers you posted do actually support my theory.  Prior to Wayne getting injured, Fleener was catching a larger percentage of passes thrown his way whereas he was only catching about half of what came his way after Wayne went out.  Because teams could focus more on covering him knowing that he and Hilton were the only 2 real big play threats at the time.  Therefore tougher coverage made passes more difficult to catch, which would explain why his catch percentage went down.

 

So a player who has nearly every single one of his counterparts who he competes with for catches out, is supposed to play worse?...Ty Hilton disagrees with that argument....Harry Douglas, Keenan Allen do as well.....Why are guys like Josh Gordon/Jordan Cameron able to perform, even tho the opposing team know its just those 2, and "tougher coverage made passes more difficult to catch"?.... 

 

If you wanted to make the claim that Cobys YPR would go up with Wayne/Allen, perhaps I'd get behind that statement. 

[NewColtsFan]

Not really no. 

 

Before the Wayne injury, Fleener was avg about 4.5 targets per game, pulling in 3.1......After the Wayne injury he was avg about 6.1 targets per game, and pulling in 3.3. 

 

I dont think a single team we played this year went into a game saying "we have to stop Fleener."

 

Actually,  given the stats you have posted,  it looks like teams tried to do a much better job at cutting down on Fleener's effectiveness,  and they did a good job.

 

He was targeted 1.6 more times per game, and only made .2 more catches.   

 

Looks like defenses did a good job of limiting Fleeners overall impact.

 

Just thinking out loud......

[NewColtsFan]

I'm still not sure we've seen the best of Coby Fleener....

 

I think his best is yet to come....     of course, I think the same thing for guys like Hilton and Ballard, and Brazill,  and some guy named Luck too.

 

I really do think all have a higher ceiling and will reach it sooner rather than later...

 

Especially Luck.   And when his game goes up,  everyone's game will go up....  

[JoKeR]

Fleener and Allen will be a lethal combo next year. There's no defense in the league that could cover Fleener, Allen, Wayne, T.Y. and ______ (Rogers, Whalen, Brazil) all at the same time. 

 

Or line up in a single back formation, just to change the play and have Fleener or Allen shift over to the slot, having a LBer covering. Luck can make it a pass or run play.

Or line up in Trips, with Allen, Fleener, and T.Y. in the bunch. There's some nice possibilities with bubble screens in that.

[Surge89]

I'm happy to see Fleener quiet a lot of doubters. Last year, I was indifferent about Fleener, but loved his potential, and was hoping he would take a step forward this year.

 

He definitely did that, as you mentioned with the doubling of the stats, and his very low drop rate. He still needs to work on some things, but next year will only be his 3rd year, and the 2nd in this offense. I think he can get a lot better, EVEN with Allen in the lineup. 

 

I too was one of the big doubters of Fleener.  In my book he did great this year in comparison to last which did not impress at all.  I will say he still had moments when he just looks smaller than the LB covering him instead of using his athletic ability to out muscle.  Maybe I'm a little harsher in critique but other TE's that I see with his frame and not his speed spend a lot of times catching in traffic using their body to make something happen.  With Fleener I see more of a receiver than anything.  Which isn't bad AT ALL  If he can still progress as a receiver we really don't need him to be that big body except in the run game, which still needs some work btw.  So put me in the "I want more Fleener crowd  "

 

If Allen could have his speed though... man oh man would he be lighting up the record books.

[crazycolt1]

I think Fleener, Allen and all the receivers will all become more effective with a better offensive line. If Luck gets better protection and more time to read the progressions the sky is the limit. Picking one receiver over the others might be hard to do if Luck can just get the time to do his job. It would be nice if the defenses the Colts face couldn't game plan on just stopping one or two receivers. We can all debate on who we think will step up but till the offensive line is improved we will see exactly what we have seen the last two seasons. The key to advance in the playoffs and on to a super bowl is all reliant on the offensive line getting much better than what we have witnessed the last two seasons. I know the thread is about Fleener but it boils down to improvements on the O line for any of the receivers to shine.