Worse offseason move was keeping Pagano and letting Arians walk....

[Blackhawk4]

A lot of people caping up and coming with threads like this the past 24 hours has been laughable to honest.

 

I forgot more about football than you will ever know...Not talking fantasy football either which is probably as close to playing as you have been....

 

Case in point. Caping up and with a sentence that sums up how good this thread really is. Nobody is going to take your point seriously when you say something like this.

[chrisfarley]

to the OP: In the back of my mind, I have always been thinking that same thing.  Ariens was a gem of a catch and it was pure accidental timing that we snagged him from Steelers.  Steelers screwed up big time. I had that ChuckStrong thing going in my heart and soul but really never quite fully bought into the Pagano thing (maybe that will change).  I never really thought he looked completely in control (more like a lost puppy) in his first game(s) in indy and then the playoff return.  Ariens was the key to everything I'm afraid to say.  I am hoping and praying that my mind changes and I start believing more in Pagano, but that hasn't happened and the feel-good story has worn off long ago.  It's now about accumulating wins and lots of them.  Looks like an uphill battle this season where a win will be hard to come by.  I'm all for the warm and fuzzies and such but let's go kick some sassafras.

[jshipp23]

to the OP: In the back of my mind, I have always been thinking that same thing.  Ariens was a gem of a catch and it was pure accidental timing that we snagged him from Steelers.  Steelers screwed up big time. I had that ChuckStrong thing going in my heart and soul but really never quite fully bought into the Pagano thing (maybe that will change).  I never really thought he looked completely in control (more like a lost puppy) in his first game(s) in indy and then the playoff return.  Ariens was the key to everything I'm afraid to say.  I am hoping and praying that my mind changes and I start believing more in Pagano, but that hasn't happened and the feel-good story has worn off long ago.  It's now about accumulating wins and lots of them.  Looks like an uphill battle this season where a win will be hard to come by.  I'm all for the warm and fuzzies and such but let's go kick some sassafras.

The Cardinals were as bad as you get but look pretty good already....The guy is just a leader and it's a shame it took him this long to be a head coach...

[BOTT]

Never had a QB and took low talent teams to the playoffs...Great Leader of men though...

I guess if leader of men = eye rolling, cliche using blow hard. Not sure how a grown man could take herm edwards seriously.

[Nostrils]

I forgot more about football than you will ever know...Not talking fantasy football either which is probably as close to playing as you have been....

Lol keeps proving the point how.... Stooopid he is

Yeah I bet you "forgot" more about football than all of us hahahaha goober

[BOTT]

I too liked Arians a lot. Loved him in Pitt and thought he coached a miracle season last year when he was unexpectedly handed the HC job early in the season. I have always believed that if something is not broke, don't try to fix it. Arians did a masterfully job with Luck and the team and won COY. I think what is tough is that he got the HC offer. I think the Colts would have retained him as OC if they could have. At least that is what mgmt said.

 

Pagano does seem conservative and Luck is not as explosive but yet Colts were in both games. Miami is a very good so playing them close is not a diaster by any means but I agree that they Colts probably should have won.

 

The other thing working against Pagano is the schedule. The next few weeks are brutal.

I'm sure you did love Arians when he was in Pitt...didn't the Patriots hammer the Steelers during that time?

[jamesie jr]

Doubt that, i think it was quite a good move imo. Getting Pep was smart plus Luck doesn't hurl the ball downfield every time with Pep like he did with Arians.

[SMett]

First loss of the season.

Better throw in the towel on the rest of the season!

 

Anyone remember the Jets game last year? ...  Won 10 more after that debacle. 

[Goodtimes]

I know we had a moral obligation to allow Pagano to come back and coach this year, but I feel we let a GREAT GREAT coach in Arians walk and keeping Pagano...Just look how the Steelers have went downhill without him at OC...I am beyond frustrated watching the first 2 games and the terrible decisions and playcalling on both sides of the ball...We are coaching horribly conservatively and this comes from the top!!! We r running 2 te, fb sets instead of 3 wides and it's so predictable any easy to defend...Pagano is coaching us like we are the old Ravens when we don't have old Ravens personnel??? We need to play a style more like the Falcons, but we are calling plays like we are the old Ravens or Cleveland Browns or something...It is obvious to me how much more talented we were than the Dolphins or Raiders and neither game should have been close....It has to go on the coach....Beyond frustrated so far this season...

 

It will soon be clear to everyone that we are in a complete rebuilding mode. The coach who does the rebuilding never survives it and with the otherworldly expectations of Colts fans, I think Pagano will be driven out in 24 months.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Superman

[amfootball]

I'm sure you did love Arians when he was in Pitt...didn't the Patriots hammer the Steelers during that time?

Brady hammers Pitt every time no matter the OC. Goes back to the early '00s when he beat then in Pitt twice for the AFC champ games. 

 

Loving the avatar again. I find myself looking forward to what you will post each week now.

[BOTT]

Brady hammers Pitt every time no matter the OC. Goes back to the early '00s when he beat then in Pitt twice for the AFC champ games. 

 

Loving the avatar again. I find myself looking forward to what you will post each week now.

The Pitt offense was usually kinda clunky during his tenure.....ranking 9, 20, 12, 12, 21 in offense. And that's with a top ranked defense. I like Arians as a HC, but I still don't like him as a play caller.

[amfootball]

The Pitt offense was usually kinda clunky during his tenure.....ranking 9, 20, 12, 12, 21 in offense. And that's with a top ranked defense. I like Arians as a HC, but I still don't like him as a play caller.

Just curious, were the 20 and 21 rankings seasons in which Ben missed a lot of games?

 

I think with Arians you get a down field passing attack but he also game plans well for the other teams defense. I think when you look at Ben prior to Arians, he was a QB that just handed it off to Bettis. When Arians came, he developed into more of a pure passer and threw a really nice deep ball and offense was put on his shoulders. They went to two Sbs with Arians and won one and losing the other to Rodgers. I think to the extent that Ben voiced his displeasure that Arians was let go tells you how much he thought of him and what he did for his game.

 

In terms of Luck, I really thought it was a match made in heaven. I believe Arians got too much of the blame for Luck's TOs as rookies make mistakes. The boom far outweighed the bust IMO but I get the thinking of wanting Luck to take less  hits. I just think the NFL is very unforgiving and teams that are willing to take risks usually get the reward. Conservative teams watch from home.

[GoColts8818]

As Dan Dakich would say if you wanna jump then jump!

[COLT in J-ville]

I say we fire Pagano and trade our next three 1st round draft picks for Jim Caldwell

[Tracy Denton]

You think you know, But, You don't know ~ Jim Mora

[jshipp23]

The Pitt offense was usually kinda clunky during his tenure.....ranking 9, 20, 12, 12, 21 in offense. And that's with a top ranked defense. I like Arians as a HC, but I still don't like him as a play caller.

He is a better head coach, wasn't saying he is the best playcaller, but he seems made to be a head coach and I don't think he really wanted it till he got it...

[Balzer40]

I can't even find the words to express just how stupid this thread is. 

[Jason_]

I say we fire Pagano and trade our next three 1st round draft picks for Jim Caldwell

 

Only if he brings Painter back with him!

[Dudley Smith]

Pagano is still somewhat learning on the job. Remember he really only coached like what-- four games last season? So this was his fifth game as HC? I think he will learn to feel out his style and I think we will see him become less conservative as he gets experience. I think that like players, brand new head coaches are afraid to make a mistake and take a big chance. That's why he tries for the 52 yard field goal instead of going for it on a manageable 4th-and-1 to begin the game.

 

Give him time to grow into the position. Arians did not have the added pressure of being afraid to make a mistake because he was simply Acting HC last year and could essentially make any mistake by taking any chance he wanted because it had no impact on his job security as the OC. He was going to get his job back regardless. Pagano seems to be a tremendous motivator, according to both reports and to the Colts players, and I think dismissing him this early in his tenure is a mistake.

[tomasi1230]

I honestly think Pagano is just fine....watching the game we made poor decisions on offense. Bradshaw was running the ball well and on 3 and short yards we would pass. Let him run the ball he is tough and can make the plays. Plus not having him in late in the game for blocking purposes was a bad move. Brown is not that good. He missed key blocks when we needed them. Also on the D side we didnt bring enough pressure not many to many time did we blitz and put pressure on the qb. Be aggressive get after the qb. Let Landry run wild.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I know we had a moral obligation to allow Pagano to come back and coach this year, but I feel we let a GREAT GREAT coach in Arians walk and keeping Pagano...Just look how the Steelers have went downhill without him at OC...I am beyond frustrated watching the first 2 games and the terrible decisions and playcalling on both sides of the ball...We are coaching horribly conservatively and this comes from the top!!! We r running 2 te, fb sets instead of 3 wides and it's so predictable any easy to defend...Pagano is coaching us like we are the old Ravens when we don't have old Ravens personnel??? We need to play a style more like the Falcons, but we are calling plays like we are the old Ravens or Cleveland Browns or something...It is obvious to me how much more talented we were than the Dolphins or Raiders and neither game should have been close....It has to go on the coach....Beyond frustrated so far this season...

Some of what you say there is a shred of stuff there, but Bottom line we are just OK! Honestly I didn't see a BIG DISPARITY between our talent & the Dolphins? Arians would have been nice to keep didn't play out that way, & I like Pagano he's trying to build a balanced team!

[Larry Horseman]

I think a discussion of the coaching staff is worthwhile. The tone of the thread really puts a damper on a real question mark--Pagano is 3-4 as an HC, Hamilton is 1-1 as an OC, and Manusky has never really had great success as a DC. I do think all three have shown conservative tendencies. Conservatism shouldn't be based on/defined as run/pass ratio or blitz/coverage ratio. Not being conservative is more about the ability to continuously toe and sometimes cross the line of accepted NFL standards re: situational play calling, punting, kicking field goals, blitzing, playing bump and run coverage, formations (jumbo vs. 3/4 wide), etc. Pagano et. al., at this point, are showing that they are more inclined to stay on the conservative side of the line, which, as another poster pointed out, leads to watching at home during the playoffs. I'm willing to give this more time, but I'm hoping starting next week against the '9ers we start seeing more aggressive concepts introduced on a regular basis. Pep really needs to stop with so much jumbo and spread out the defense to slow down blitzes and open up running lanes. This was my main concern when he was hired, along with his lack of OC NFL experience when coupled with Pagano's lack of offensive and HC experience. The poor 3rd quarters point to our inability to have quick halftime adjustments, which point to a coaching staff who is struggling to work on the fly. 

 

All in all, we still have a lot of promise among coaches and players, and it is too early to say we made the wrong decision on any coaching front. However, come the end of the season, there will be a large enough sample size to point one way or the other. 

[Dudley Smith]

 

I think a discussion of the coaching staff is worthwhile. The tone of the thread really puts a damper on a real question mark--Pagano is 3-4 as an HC, Hamilton is 1-1 as an OC, and Manusky has never really had great success as a DC. I do think all three have shown conservative tendencies. Conservatism shouldn't be based on/defined as run/pass ratio or blitz/coverage ratio. Not being conservative is more about the ability to continuously toe and sometimes cross the line of accepted NFL standards re: situational play calling, punting, kicking field goals, blitzing, playing bump and run coverage, formations (jumbo vs. 3/4 wide), etc. Pagano et. al., at this point, are showing that they are more inclined to stay on the conservative side of the line, which, as another poster pointed out, leads to watching at home during the playoffs. I'm willing to give this more time, but I'm hoping starting next week against the '9ers we start seeing more aggressive concepts introduced on a regular basis. Pep really needs to stop with so much jumbo and spread out the defense to slow down blitzes and open up running lanes. This was my main concern when he was hired, along with his lack of OC NFL experience when coupled with Pagano's lack of offensive and HC experience. The poor 3rd quarters point to our inability to have quick halftime adjustments, which point to a coaching staff who is struggling to work on the fly. 

 

All in all, we still have a lot of promise among coaches and players, and it is too early to say we made the wrong decision on any coaching front. However, come the end of the season, there will be a large enough sample size to point one way or the other. 

 

 

Good post, LH. I agree with most of what you said. I think Pagano and Pep will learn on the job and will probably become less conservative as they get more comfortable. Manusky does concern me in that prior to last season with the Colts he has never had very much success and he was the one hire I did not care much for. The defense has looked lost for major portions of the first two games of this season. The two TDs to open the Dolphins game really set the tone for the rest of the game and they both happened over the course of maybe just four total plays that were the result of defensive collapses by the Colts. 

 

I feel that if you are going to have a conservative offense, you really need to have a dominant defense (which our Colts don't). I actually liked the playcalling much better in the Dolphins game than the Raiders game. I think Pep will open up the offense more for Luck as the season progresses. The biggest thing is making defenses pay for the blitz which has been the biggest issue thus far on offense.

[jvan1973]

I can't even find the words to express just how stupid this thread is.

dude he has forgotten more about football than anyone here.

[Balzer40]

dude he has forgotten more about football than anyone here.

 

 

 

I think he forgot it all!

[jvan1973]

I think he forgot it all!

there seems to be a lot of that around here today

[Larry Horseman]

The biggest thing is making defenses pay for the blitz which has been the biggest issue thus far on offense.

 

Yes, which goes to play calling, formations, and adjustments. Did you see the play call the Seahawks made in the red zone last night on Lynch's receiving TD? That is exactly what Pep needs to learn to do. The OC knew the blitz was coming and served up a perfect play with Lynch as the hot read. I actually am more comfortable with Pep after the first two games than I thought I would be. He needs to grow in his position, which I always thought he would, but I think he can and will. If we can hover around .500 up to the bye, I really think this team will turn the corner after that.

 

I think part of the problem with the D is all the new faces in new places--again, give them some real time to mesh and things will get progressively better.

[braveheartcolt]

With two weeks down, the only one our loyal fans have not thrown under the bus is Blue. I'm expecting his time will come in the very near future.

[Coffeedrinker]

_{I am not calling for anyone to be fired, although the jury is still out on Pagano (to be realistic Pagano has been the head coach for 7 games and the Colts are 3-4 in those games considering Arians went 9-3 as the HC of the Colts last year, it's not encouraging).}

 

_{But I will say this... so far this year the Colts have scored 31 points in the 1st half and 10 in the 2nd half.  That means the O is being predictable and not making the small adjustments that need to be made during the game.}

 

_{Defensively there seems to be some improvement.  They are getting some turnovers, pressuring the QB more but they are still in the bottom third of the league in yards per play (giving up 6 yards/play) and third down coversions allowed (48%).}

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I can't even find the words to express just how stupid this thread is.

^^^^^^^^ THAT ^^^^^^^^^

[coltsfanatic24]

Pagano isn't the problem Greg Manusky is. His defense is too vanilla and his play calling(cb's giving 5 yard cushions and not blitzing more ) are terrible.The sooner we get rid of him the better our defense will be.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Lol keeps proving the point how.... Stooopid he is

Yeah I bet you "forgot" more about football than all of us hahahaha goober

puh puh puh personal attack? That stuff is against the rules I thought?

[Nostrils]

puh puh puh personal attack? That stuff is against the rules I thought?

 

 

report it then?... you are right up there with him with your crazy talk on this forum... it should be against the rules for YOU to post ANYTHING

[Nostrils]

puh puh puh personal attack? That stuff is against the rules I thought?

 

 

just shhhh lil boy

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

report it then?... you are right up there with him with your crazy talk on this forum... it should be against the rules for YOU to post ANYTHING

 

 

just shhhh lil boy

simple questions for you sir Why did you waste your time writing 2 seperate replies for one quote? Also what exactly have I wrote that is crazy? The only "extreme" opinion that I have is that i think Fleener is a bad football player so far. Also why should it be against the rules for me to post here? Finally, why the ? on the end of "report it then" How can you make that a question, it doesn't even make sense.... My phone doesn't let me report things anyways, so there is the reason why i didn't/can't. I'll have to wait until after football practice i guess.

[NewEra]

People keep talki g about how great Arians was. What they forget is that he used chicks leukemia to spark a huge fire under last years teams butts. We brought it a lot of new guys. The season has just begun. Did we expect them to come out firing on all cylinders? Would be nice but unrealistic.

[Goodtimes]

Herm Edwards??? 58-78....proven mediocrity. The guy is best known for being a caricature of himself on espn.

 

I would certainly be excited about Gruden but Jimmy will never pay for him.

[Jules]

I didn't want Arians as our OC in the end. But, I always said I thought he was HC material, where I preferred him.

 

Pagano I always loved too. The only problem I have though is with Arians I really did like his fire at times and "telling it like it is" mentality. After the Jets game last year when talking about Andrew he just said, "rookie....".

 

And after we beat up on the Jags last year he said, "Great win but not against a very good team. We will need to play a lot better then that going into New England and we sure ain't going there to lose either."

 

However, there are times looking back to last year I think Arians benefited A LOT from the Pagano feel good story. He even admitted himself that with a young team like we had last year giving them a common goal to fight for WORKS.

 

I think it's still too early with Pagano. We have beaten a few playoff teams with him such as Houston last year in the final game and the Vikings last year in week 2.. We also have had some heartbreakers at home too under him like the Jags last season and yesterday vs. Miami.

 

One thing I will say about Pagano. I think he is a great man and I am a fan. But, he was brought in here to also improve this defense. I know we don't have all the pieces needed and might not this season. I do think the talent in the secondary is better though then they have played at times and against Oakland and Miami at times we have given up way too many big plays.

 

At the same time though there were plenty of times with Dungy who also was brought here to fix this defense where the D would flat out stink.

 

So I don't have a real answer yet since it's too soon. I do however hope we can clean up this team at times and develop more a more fluid game on both sides of the ball.

 

My final concern about any of this is that I felt Arians fire was a good balance with Luck's calmness. I hope I am wrong there but I used to feel the same with Dungy's calmness and Manning's fire balancing out...so I hope this is not something we will miss. Pagano has some fire too....we have seen his speeches but they lean to me more on the Dungy inspirational side.

 

I am more then willing to give Pagano a chance though. I think he is terrific but we really have to see more improvements this season. I am fine with giving up scores at times, I just don't want it to look so easy at times too like it has lately. I am fine with the offense stalling at times.....I just don't want to see them shoot themselves in the foot and not utilizing the strengths of our offensive talents and Luck.

 

We are still finding ourselves and our identity I think. Thinking we would become the old Baltimore Ravens defenses in a year or two was wishful thinking. We don't have the best players on D in football on our team and two of the best of all time either in Ray Lewis and Ed Reed.

 

We have to give Pagano a fair shot though here. This was his team since last offseason and he helped energize the squad and fanbase. He was the initial hire to be the HC and he deserves this shot. He is doing a good enough job but I don't think it is a bad thing either if people look back to last year and appreciate the job Arians did as our leader too.

 

JMO

[jvan1973]

I would certainly be excited about Gruden but Jimmy will never pay for him.

you already have John Fox. Plus your owners name is Pat...

[Jules]

_{I am not calling for anyone to be fired, although the jury is still out on Pagano (to be realistic Pagano has been the head coach for 7 games and the Colts are 3-4 in those games considering Arians went 9-3 as the HC of the Colts last year, it's not encouraging).}

 

_{But I will say this... so far this year the Colts have scored 31 points in the 1st half and 10 in the 2nd half.  That means the O is being predictable and not making the small adjustments that need to be made during the game.}

 

 

Yes I thought of this too. And it is concerning and needs to improve. The second half offense has been lackluster. And I always felt we shined the most in second halves but we have not been......