we coulda had Patterson

[needanoline63]

Werner has potential but is raw as sashimi tuna, it's up to the colts coaches and players to mold this guy

[needanoline63]

Don't know quite what you are asking ...so I will answer like this: the signing of Walden did not bother me; drafting Werner instead of trading back did bother me. I think Werner will probably be significantly better than Walden.

However I think the value of additional players we could have gotten from trading back would have outweighed the value Werner will add. For instance I think a good guard would have a lot of added value (nearly as much as Werner) if we traded back; plus we would get the value of the additional picks/players. Now we will likely not get a good guard .... both Warford and Winters will be gone by our 3rd round pick.

So I guess basically I look at it like: Warford + 2 extra picks > Werner

Maybe we will get lucky and maybe a couple of the best players still available will slip some how. Grigson must be holding out hope for Ben ijalana and Justin Anderson

[BOTT]

If there was a grade of F- the Colts would get it.  You need a pass rusher yes but you also need a WR and a RB which had much better players available so you grab a mediocre player that doesn't fit into your scheme?  Grigson is green and it showed big time.  He probably ruined the team between free agency and that colossal dud.

It's early, but this will be in contention for post of the year....and not in a complimentary way.

Running Back? .

Edited April 26, 2013 by Nadine
profanity

[Narcosys]

Cowherd was talking smack on the Jets, Vikings, & Dolphins first day moves this morning...

Loved Rams, Cincy, & Indy's picks...

Cowherds had alot of love for the Colts since the regime changs, & the dude is right more than he is wrong...

just saying...

No cowherd is a lot of mouth and has stuck his foot in it plenty of times. You don't think Floyd, Rhodes, and Patterson are worth the picks they gave up? Which they really only gave up a 2nd and 3rd considering they still have a pick in all the other rounds. They made out like a bandit.

Plus he's a pats homer, he's going to talk trash about them. Especially jets and dolphins.

[Mouthfire]

If there was a grade of F- the Colts would get it.  You need a pass rusher yes but you also need a WR and a RB which had much better players available so you grab a mediocre player that doesn't fit into your scheme?  Grigson is green and it showed big time.  He probably ruined the team between free agency and that colossal dud.

 

People clamoring for a 1st round WR or (oh, dear lord) 1st round RB this year, clearly don't understand football

[Narcosys]

If there was a grade of F- the Colts would get it. You need a pass rusher yes but you also need a WR and a RB which had much better players available so you grab a mediocre player that doesn't fit into your scheme? Grigson is green and it showed big time. He probably ruined the team between free agency and that colossal dud.

I'm going to remember this and revisit if after the season.

Edit. Pagano prob had as much say and influence in this.

[USAFHoosier]

There were a lot of options on the board and I dont think he could have gone wrong with Werner, Patterson, or Rhodes.  There are a lot of great prospects tonight.  We could stay pat and grab BPA or still possibly trade up.

[NewEra]

Yes, cause you obviously build the Monster by drafting wr's and rb's! Build my Colts like the steelers/ravens. Not like these high flying one and done teams that some of our fans want. Been there done that. One Super Bowl to show for it. And that was with Manning.

[Jason_]

Werner has potential but is raw as sashimi tuna, it's up to the colts coaches and players to mold this guy

 

How has a guy who played in 14 games as a true freshman, 13 as a sophomore and 14 as a junior accumulating the following accolades:

 

*********** Unanimous All-American ***********

Walter Camp All-American (First Team)*

FWAA All-American (First Team)*

AP All-American (First Team)*

FACA FBS Coaches All-American (First Team)*

Sporting News All-American (First Team)*

CBSSports.com All-American (First Team)

Pro Football Weekly All-American (First Team)

Athlon Sports All-American (First Team)

SI.com All-American (Second Team)

Phil Steele All-American (Second Team)

ACC Defensive Player of the Year

Athlon Sports ACC Defensive Player of the Year

College Football News ACC Defensive Player of the Year

All-ACC (First Team)

Coaches All-ACC (First Team)

ESPN.com All-Conference (First Team)

Phil Steele Postseason All-ACC (First Team)

College Football News All-ACC (First Team)

Bronko Nagurski Trophy Finalist

Ted Hendricks Award Finalist

 

while racking up 23.5 sacks in the ACC "raw as a sashimi tuna"?  

 

Ansah is raw...Margus Hunt is raw.  I don't see how Werner could be considered raw...unless you're just getting bad sashimi tuna. ;)

[needanoline63]

I've watched him play, he still needs work, just cause he did good in college doesn't mean he will do good in the pros. I like Werner and i think he will be better off as a 3-4 OLB, obviously grigson and pags don't trust walden. He needs to get stronger and a little faster. Potential is there though

[Qwiz]

Just having a little fun with you. I'm sure they are not doing poop DNA tests. I don't know if he'll be "destroying " defenses but he was a nice safe pick and certainly filled a huge hole. Patterson may have been the sexier pick but Hopkins will be good from day 1 and has little chance of busting. But lack of vertical speed is why is was there at 27 (?) . Not a game changing type guy but solid as can be.

Yep. He'll be more than enough help though, all we needed was a legit wideout opposite Andre. This relieves some pressure. I wasn't a big fan of Patterson, but I'm sure he'll do well with Minnesota.

[LockeDown]

It doesn't take a genius to know that with the 24th pick in the 1st round with impact players still out there at need positions you don't take a "motor" guy that runs like a truck for your pass rush hole.  

 

Griswold does it again.

 

So far, you're qualified.  What else does it NOT take to know?  Because, I am betting you won't know that stuff either.

[MSColtsFan]

People clamoring for a 1st round WR or (oh, dear lord) 1st round RB this year, clearly don't understand football

 

Like Jon Gruden?  He said the Colts should take Lacy when they were on the clock.  Kiper agreed that RB could be considered.  Many others who have actually spent many years in the profession mentioned WR or RB.  Sports Illustrated had RB listed first for the Colts as well (http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/24/2013-nfl-draft-team-needs/).  It's ok to run the ball still in the NFL.  The 49ers (4th) and Ravens (11th) did that pretty well last year, and they were the last teams standing.  More to the point, a team which makes as many moves as the Colts did in the offseason in free agency, have the franchise QB locked up, and made the playoffs the previous year (have talent), have flexibility.  I love the Werner pick, but I wouldn't have lost my mind had the pick gone OL, RB, or WR. 

[Qwiz]

Like Jon Gruden?  He said the Colts should take Lacy when they were on the clock.  Kiper agreed that RB could be considered.  Many others who have actually spent many years in the profession mentioned WR or RB.  Sports Illustrated had RB listed first for the Colts as well (http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/24/2013-nfl-draft-team-needs/).  It's ok to run the ball still in the NFL.  The 49ers (4th) and Ravens (11th) did that pretty well last year, and they were the last teams standing.  More to the point, a team which makes as many moves as the Colts did in the offseason in free agency, have the franchise QB locked up, and made the playoffs the previous year (have talent), have flexibility.  I love the Werner pick, but I wouldn't have lost my mind had the pick gone OL, RB, or WR. 

Especially with the OC's mention of an emphasis on the running game, I could see how the Colts could have taken Lacey and not gotten any flack for it either.

[BOTT]

Like Jon Gruden?  He said the Colts should take Lacy when they were on the clock.  Kiper agreed that RB could be considered.  Many others who have actually spent many years in the profession mentioned WR or RB.  Sports Illustrated had RB listed first for the Colts as well (http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/24/2013-nfl-draft-team-needs/).  It's ok to run the ball still in the NFL.  The 49ers (4th) and Ravens (11th) did that pretty well last year, and they were the last teams standing.  More to the point, a team which makes as many moves as the Colts did in the offseason in free agency, have the franchise QB locked up, and made the playoffs the previous year (have talent), have flexibility.  I love the Werner pick, but I wouldn't have lost my mind had the pick gone OL, RB, or WR.

On his own podcast Kiper has been adamant about never taking a running back in the first round. When on tv sometimes you gotta say something...anything.

[Jason_]

I've watched him play, he still needs work, just cause he did good in college doesn't mean he will do good in the pros. I like Werner and i think he will be better off as a 3-4 OLB, obviously grigson and pags don't trust walden. He needs to get stronger and a little faster. Potential is there though

 

That could be said of literally every single player to ever play college football.

[Jason_]

Like Jon Gruden?  He said the Colts should take Lacy when they were on the clock.  Kiper agreed that RB could be considered.  Many others who have actually spent many years in the profession mentioned WR or RB.  Sports Illustrated had RB listed first for the Colts as well (http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/24/2013-nfl-draft-team-needs/).  It's ok to run the ball still in the NFL.  The 49ers (4th) and Ravens (11th) did that pretty well last year, and they were the last teams standing.  More to the point, a team which makes as many moves as the Colts did in the offseason in free agency, have the franchise QB locked up, and made the playoffs the previous year (have talent), have flexibility.  I love the Werner pick, but I wouldn't have lost my mind had the pick gone OL, RB, or WR. 

 

 

Gruden also said that Mathieu was the "best CB in the draft".   That and the Lacy comments were just 2 more reasons I'm ecstatic he did not become our head coach.

[chrisfarley]

This is an odd pick (Germanator).  This guy has a cold/hot motor.  Takes plays off, just watch the film, once feet settle after quick start, CANNOT change direction to follow ball (too slow).  If play is on opposite side of ball, he just watches like a spectator - he might as well take a seat and pay admission.  I don't know how FSU defensive coordinator wasn't in his grill.  Has attitude like non-other.  Mixed reviews for sure.  Like his motor on plays where he is motivated, can get to the ball (in college).  Has College sack capability (big play),  has NFL average player to below average player written all over him.  He wanted to go to Giants, NOT COLTS, just like last year with our 2nd Tight End pick.  Hated to come to the Colts from all indications.

[ztboiler]

Patterson is a bust waiting to happen if you ask me.  

 

I maintain that if I had to pick one WR in this draft I would go with Keenan Allen.  I'd be ok with Hopkins too.  

 

Patterson is a big risk.  Has 1st round athletic ability but hasn't shown first round production.  A lot of guys drafted highly on the basis of athletic ability alone end up being busts.  

 

Patterson probably ended up in the right place to do well not bust.  They don't have the QB for a complex system and the addition of Greg Jennings takes the immediate pressure off of Patterson to run precision routes.  All the Vikes need him to do is stretch the defense occasionally and catch simple stuff underneath with YAC.  It is the perfect fit and likely to work.  Probably a poor fit for a Manning or Brady team on the other hand.

[MSColtsFan]

On his own podcast Kiper has been adamant about never taking a running back in the first round. When on tv sometimes you gotta say something...anything.

 

Or maybe he, like many others, think that as nice a back as Ballard is, there is room for improvement at that position, like several others on the current Colts roster.  And for many teams who drafted late yesterday, the 'best' available player at certain positions remained available.  The Texans landed the WR many considered the best available, most NFL ready.  Colts got the DE who many thought was the best.  Many had Floyd as the best DT.  And the 'best' RB and WR were still on the board when the Colts were on the clock.  That wasn't true at CB, G, or T. 

 

Gruden also said that Mathieu was the "best CB in the draft".   That and the Lacy comments were just 2 more reasons I'm ecstatic he did not become our head coach.

 

I'm not suggesting Gruden isn't as crazy as a loon, but he was involved in coaching from 1986 to 2008, and then remained active in the industry through his media gig.  The point I was trying to make is that those who feel that considering a RB, or WR even, means people don't understand football is as ludicrous to me as taking a RB at 24 would have been to those who disliked that idea.  There were many who understood why WR, RB, OL would have been as beneficial as CB, DE, OLB.  Again, the joy of drafting 24th after a playoff season with all signs pointed to years of continued success. 

[BOTT]

Or maybe he, like many others, think that as nice a back as Ballard is, there is room for improvement at that position, like several others on the current Colts roster.  And for many teams who drafted late yesterday, the 'best' available player at certain positions remained available.  The Texans landed the WR many considered the best available, most NFL ready.  Colts got the DE who many thought was the best.  Many had Floyd as the best DT.  And the 'best' RB and WR were still on the board when the Colts were on the clock.  That wasn't true at CB, G, or T. 

 

 

I'm not suggesting Gruden isn't as crazy as a loon, but he was involved in coaching from 1986 to 2008, and then remained active in the industry through his media gig.  The point I was trying to make is that those who feel that considering a RB, or WR even, means people don't understand football is as ludicrous to me as taking a RB at 24 would have been to those who disliked that idea.  There were many who understood why WR, RB, OL would have been as beneficial as CB, DE, OLB.  Again, the joy of drafting 24th after a playoff season with all signs pointed to years of continued success.

Ok, then he is contradicting himself. His podcast is on ITunes...I'm not putting words in his mouth.

[Hans Moleman]

Patterson probably ended up in the right place to do well not bust.  They don't have the QB for a complex system and the addition of Greg Jennings takes the immediate pressure off of Patterson to run precision routes.  All the Vikes need him to do is stretch the defense occasionally and catch simple stuff underneath with YAC.  It is the perfect fit and likely to work.  Probably a poor fit for a Manning or Brady team on the other hand.

 

All they need is a QB who doesn't believe there's an invisible force field that prevents the ball from traveling more than 15 yards downfield at a time.

[Hans Moleman]

As for the original topic, it's easy:

 

It's easier to find a WR in the 3rd or 4th round than it is a 3 down LB with pass rushing skills and scheme versatility.

[Mouthfire]

Like Jon Gruden?  He said the Colts should take Lacy when they were on the clock.  Kiper agreed that RB could be considered.  Many others who have actually spent many years in the profession mentioned WR or RB.  Sports Illustrated had RB listed first for the Colts as well (http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/24/2013-nfl-draft-team-needs/).  It's ok to run the ball still in the NFL.  The 49ers (4th) and Ravens (11th) did that pretty well last year, and they were the last teams standing.  More to the point, a team which makes as many moves as the Colts did in the offseason in free agency, have the franchise QB locked up, and made the playoffs the previous year (have talent), have flexibility.  I love the Werner pick, but I wouldn't have lost my mind had the pick gone OL, RB, or WR. 

 

Yeah, sure.  I think I'll skip over Gruden's opinion...

 

It's particularly telling when NO ONE took a flyer on Lacy in the 1st round, particularly the GB Packers, who have easily have a bigger need at RB than almost anyone else.

 

Yeah, I think I'll skip Chucky's opinion.... Lacy's really a 2nd round talent, and he'll probably get picked in the appropriate spot tonight.

[MSColtsFan]

Ok, then he is contradicting himself. His podcast is on ITunes...I'm not putting words in his mouth.

 

Nor was I, so perhaps he simply evaluated the postion (24), the available talent on the board, team needs, and changed his mind.

[Mouthfire]

Or maybe he, like many others, think that as nice a back as Ballard is, there is room for improvement at that position, like several others on the current Colts roster.  And for many teams who drafted late yesterday, the 'best' available player at certain positions remained available.  The Texans landed the WR many considered the best available, most NFL ready.  Colts got the DE who many thought was the best.  Many had Floyd as the best DT.  And the 'best' RB and WR were still on the board when the Colts were on the clock.  That wasn't true at CB, G, or T. 

 

 

I'm not suggesting Gruden isn't as crazy as a loon, but he was involved in coaching from 1986 to 2008, and then remained active in the industry through his media gig.  The point I was trying to make is that those who feel that considering a RB, or WR even, means people don't understand football is as ludicrous to me as taking a RB at 24 would have been to those who disliked that idea.  There were many who understood why WR, RB, OL would have been as beneficial as CB, DE, OLB.  Again, the joy of drafting 24th after a playoff season with all signs pointed to years of continued success. 

 

If you think WR/RB is as important as CB/DE/OLB in today's NFL, then you really don't understand football.

[BOTT]

Nor was I, so perhaps he simply evaluated the postion (24), the available talent on the board, team needs, and changed his mind.

Ok...

[Franklin County]

Lacy's really a 2nd round talent, and he'll probably get picked in the appropriate spot tonight. Quoted MouthFire and agreed with this.

[MSColtsFan]

Yeah, sure.  I think I'll skip over Gruden's opinion...

 

It's particularly telling when NO ONE took a flyer on Lacy in the 1st round, particularly the GB Packers, who have easily have a bigger need at RB than almost anyone else.

 

Yeah, I think I'll skip Chucky's opinion.... Lacy's really a 2nd round talent, and he'll probably get picked in the appropriate spot tonight.

 

I think the Colts did the exact right thing which also happened to be a position of need.  The best of both worlds.  I think Lacy will go early in the second, and perhaps that is exactly where he should go.  And RB isn't alone - the results of the first round speak volumes about most 'skill' positions this year.   But I would feel the same way right now if the Colts has taken Lacy at 24 as I do with Werner.  Happy.  Jones, or Rhodes, or Hopkins would have been fine too.  And that's my point.  DE, OLB, CB, RB, or WR I can understand, and I would have accepted the evaluation process of people who do this for a living.  Taking the third or fourth best G (Pugh might be a C?), or a real project like Patterson is (to me), would not have been as warm and fuzzy. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

I'm pretty sure many experts don't love that pick from what I've read.  Are you reading the Grigson Times.

 

You're part of the problem if you criticize without offering  an alternative.  Who, exactly, did YOU want/recommend?

[MrNLM]

Why Grigson, Why?

We have to get at the QB better AND stop the run better than we ever have... We know Luck can get the ball to anyone out there on the field who is eligible. Not taking a WR in the first also shows DHB that we value him and that he needs to work his tail off and prove we made the right choice by not taking a WR.

 

Our defense is gonna be pretty darn good in IMO... if we can avoid the injury bug we will be looking at a top 10 defense as early as week 3. Beating the 49'ers will be our announcement party that we are a new team that is gonna make all opponents as one dimensional as possible.

[Buck Showalter]

No cowherd is a lot of mouth and has stuck his foot in it plenty of times. You don't think Floyd, Rhodes, and Patterson are worth the picks they gave up? Which they really only gave up a 2nd and 3rd considering they still have a pick in all the other rounds. They made out like a bandit.

Plus he's a pats homer, he's going to talk trash about them. Especially jets and dolphins.

The Vikings may end up doing well, they did get some talent that fell well past pre-draft projection...

I posted Cowherds remarks because I heard his show just before I read this thread, thought it was interesting,

it's easy to say a team has a good draft if they have three picks in the first round...

Think several people on this board are slightly jealous since MN ended up with Rhodes...

[MSColtsFan]

If you think WR/RB is as important as CB/DE/OLB in today's NFL, then you really don't understand football.

 

CB?  DE and OLB I agree with you.  CB, no.  Five out of the ten highest paid CBs are on teams that didn't make the playoffs last year.  Horrible investment if you ask me.  Rule changes have crippled CB and S play. 

 

RB?  Eight of the eleven leading rushers last year played on playoff teams.  Seems like there are still teams running the ball with success. 

 

Baltimore had the 17th ranked D.  They wear the ring.  And the 49ers, who ranked third during the season gave up 31, 24, and 34 points in the playoffs/SB.   No 85 Bears or Steel Curtain there. 

 

10 of the top 16 teams in total offense made the playoffs.  8 of the top 16 in total defense. 

 

I think QB is the important position in football.  The rest, all the others, fall somewhere far below that position.  I understand football just fine.  And nowhere did I say RB or WR were more important than CB/DE/OLB.  But I do know that Lacy is a RB , has been his whole playing life.  I also know Werner has played football for five total years in his life, and never OLB.  And yet I still love the pick. 

[mvbighead]

If there was a grade of F- the Colts would get it.  You need a pass rusher yes but you also need a WR and a RB which had much better players available so you grab a mediocre player that doesn't fit into your scheme?  Grigson is green and it showed big time.  He probably ruined the team between free agency and that colossal dud.

 

This is simply comical.  Our green GM built a team that went 2-14 (due solely to the loss of their QB), and got them into the playoffs with a rookie QB.

 

The only thing I do not like about the Werner pick was the fact that we brought in two guys at OLB (Walden, Sidburry), and we already have Mathis.  Add to that Hughes, and we have a pretty full group of guys, and it seems to me that Hughes has been progressing in this scheme while be buried behind Freeney and Mathis all these years.

 

That said, if Grigson and staff were high fiving this pick (which they said they would only pick a guy there if they were truly excited about him), then I have to assume he knows something we don't.

 

As for ruining this team... LOL!!!

[Drewbacca]

Lacy ran behind what was one of the best lines in college football, he is not that good. If they are choosing a RB they need Jonathon Franklin from UCLA. Ballard and Franklin produce a nice 1-2 punch together.

[dgambill]

Screw Patterson, look at the deal the vikings gave for #29. At #24 we prolly could have convinced them to part with Peterson, as well as all the picks they gave the Pats.

 

Mark my words:

 

The vikings just sent the road to the AFC right back through New England, and it's now likely going to be a road paved for years to come. This was NOT the draft to play into their down trading ways. 

The pats have needs right now...their window is closing with Brady. I'm not saying those picks won't pan out but really a player in the first rd has a much better chance to turn into a difference maker than players selected in the 2nd 3rd 4th rds....the 7th rd probably won't even make their roster. I think Minnesota did fine....I don't think NE is going to see a lot out of those picks outside the second rounder....it would be a stretch to think this is somehow going to set the Pats up for years. They had a chance to pick up help in their secondary or on their DL or at wr and they passed...I don't see anything special happening for NE.

[Andy]

Pass rusher is a bigger need and Patterson is overrated and not worth our pick.

 

Very happy they passed on him. They didn't need him.

[Warhorse]

If there was a grade of F- the Colts would get it.  You need a pass rusher yes but you also need a WR and a RB which had much better players available so you grab a mediocre player that doesn't fit into your scheme?  Grigson is green and it showed big time.  He probably ruined the team between free agency and that colossal dud.

For myself, this takes the validity out of your future posts. I really don't even know how to respond.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Yea.. it looked to be a boatload but the first one they get is a low second. The odds of getting a really good player is just so much larger at 24 than 52.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9214247/study-shows-more-value-2nd-round-picks-1st-rounders

[Mouthfire]

CB?  DE and OLB I agree with you.  CB, no.  Five out of the ten highest paid CBs are on teams that didn't make the playoffs last year.  Horrible investment if you ask me.  Rule changes have crippled CB and S play. 

 

RB?  Eight of the eleven leading rushers last year played on playoff teams.  Seems like there are still teams running the ball with success. 

 

Baltimore had the 17th ranked D.  They wear the ring.  And the 49ers, who ranked third during the season gave up 31, 24, and 34 points in the playoffs/SB.   No 85 Bears or Steel Curtain there. 

 

10 of the top 16 teams in total offense made the playoffs.  8 of the top 16 in total defense. 

 

I think QB is the important position in football.  The rest, all the others, fall somewhere far below that position.  I understand football just fine.  And nowhere did I say RB or WR were more important than CB/DE/OLB.  But I do know that Lacy is a RB , has been his whole playing life.  I also know Werner has played football for five total years in his life, and never OLB.  And yet I still love the pick. 

 

 

 

Yeah… about those playoff running backs…

 

Ben Jarvis Green Ellis – Undrafted

Arian Foster – Undrafted

Vick Ballard – 5^th round pick

Ray Rice – 2^nd round pick

Adrian Peterson – 1^st round pick

James Starks – 6^th round

Alfred Morris – 6^th round

Marshawn Lynch – 1^st round

Stephen Ridley – 3^rd round

Knowshown Moreno – 1^st round

Frank Gore – 3^rd round

Michael Turner – 5^th round

 

 

 

Only three 1^st round running backs (out of 12) in the playoffs last year.  And how did those 1^st round running backs do? 

 

How about one playoff win between the three of them?

 

 

Adrian Peterson – No playoff wins

Marshawn Lynch – One playoff win

Knowshown Moreno – No playoff wins