Dwayne Allen's Comments on the Offense

[rockywoj]

Neither Fleener nor Allen are due big money this year, for in reality, they have been mediocre at best, generally speaking.

So there it is, based on their body of work, they are mediocre TEs that flash a lot of potential, occasionally. Second contracts ought to reward production and reliability, not potential (though potential can be worked into the contract equation via production bonuses). Ergo, by the measure of past production and reliability, I think they're dreaming if they expect to hit the contract jackpot this coming offseason.

It was sadly disturbing to read all the misuse of dominate versus dominant. Very glad somebody set the record straight. :-)

Despite the validity of what Allen said, he needs to shut up and put up. I think he "can" be dominant, but the occasional flash of such does not make it so.

[tikyle]

Nothing he said was out of bounds or wrong.  If TY said the same exact thing no one could deny it or gripe about it.  It's just that Allen is in a contract year and he's currently not healthy enough to play.  That being said the Colts have no real offensive identity b/c they are trying to find out what plays will work with that excuse for an offensive line.  And Luck does lock in onto his #1 receiver.  Always has.  His rookie year every 3rd down you knew the ball was going to Reggie.  Last year you knew the ball was going to TY.  But for some reason when the Colts get down big and he's in comeback mode he starts spreading the ball around and the offense becomes unstoppable.  And then everyone says Pep should have been calling these plays all game.  Nope!  Luck should trust all his receivers all game and see what happens.  And if they play terrible they need to get benched and put in the next man (I'm talking to you Andre).

 

We will see Thursday night b/c they won't change too much on such a short week.  Luck needs to pass to everyone and we need to get a backup RB who can stay on the field and not fumble.

[Esquire59]

Getting sick and tired of Fwagile Dwayne's leaks and critiques.  Though, this isn't as bad as griping about not being on the team promo pictures (likely because he skipped OTAs, BTW).  Hope his yeast infection or whatever it is this time clears up and we can get some production out of him before he's on another team (and injured frequently) next year. 

[ColtRider]

Dominant. That's the word you guys are looking for. Dominant.

Feel like I just got "Passworded"! ... uh, a long time running game show back in the '60s - '80s ... argh ... never mind ...

$&@&$

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Getting sick and tired of Fwagile Dwayne's leaks and critiques.  Though, this isn't as bad as griping about not being on the team promo pictures (likely because he skipped OTAs, BTW).  Hope his yeast infection or whatever it is this time clears up and we can get some production out of him before he's on another team (and injured frequently) next year. 

 

Hey you don't talk about our dominant TE like that, I mean, after all, he is on pace for 12 catches this year.

[Nadine]

I think it's one thing to say you'd like more opportunity and another to comment on the team as a whole.  That's not his job and I'll bet he regrets doing that. 
 
dysfunctional: characterized by a breakdown of normal or beneficial relationships between members of the group.

 

 Not exactly ONE Team stuff

[Superman]

Detroit is real thin at TE right now, maybe the Colts should trade Allen to the Lions for a 4th round pick, sign back McGrath and just move foward with Doyle and Fleener.

 

I like Allen, I think he's a good TE but the dude cannot stay healthy.

 

I would do that trade today. Not out of spite or because I dislike Allen, but because I figure he's gone after this season, I doubt he'll be 100% through the rest of the season, and even if we got a compensatory 4th from him leaving, we wouldn't get it until 2017. But I don't think the Lions are going to give up a 4th for an oft-injured TE who is a free agent at the end of the season.

[Superman]

The Colts can't keep both Fleener and Allen. Cap economics just won't allow it. Keep Fleener and Doyle. Doyle can block and catch and he stays relatively healthy......and he's very affordable. Draft another Doyle style TE and move on. 

 

Yes they can, but no, they won't.

[NewColtsFan]

Neither Fleener nor Allen are due big money this year, for in reality, they have been mediocre at best, generally speaking.

So there it is, based on their body of work, they are mediocre TEs that flash a lot of potential, occasionally. Second contracts ought to reward production and reliability, not potential (though potential can be worked into the contract equation via production bonuses). Ergo, by the measure of past production and reliability, I think they're dreaming if they expect to hit the contract jackpot this coming offseason.

It was sadly disturbing to read all the misuse of dominate versus dominant. Very glad somebody set the record straight. :-)

Despite the validity of what Allen said, he needs to shut up and put up. I think he "can" be dominant, but the occasional flash of such does not make it so.

 

It depends on how you define "big money".....    Fleener is going to get a solid contract.     I'd guess 4/25.

 

But the team salary structure can absorb bringing them both back if we want to.  

 

The question becomes -- do we want to?      And I suspect we're way too far off from having to make such a decision?

[chad72]

I would do that trade today. Not out of spite or because I dislike Allen, but because I figure he's gone after this season, I doubt he'll be 100% through the rest of the season, and even if we got a compensatory 4th from him leaving, we wouldn't get it until 2017. But I don't think the Lions are going to give up a 4th for an oft-injured TE who is a free agent at the end of the season.

 

Yeah, right now, as it stands, we'd be lucky to get a 6th rounder for Allen, to be honest. Most likely, it will be a TE needy team like the Steelers that may pick him up in the off season. As long as he doesn't go to the Broncos or Patriots, I'm OK with that.

 

Fleener, on the other hand, we have to re-sign. In all likelihood, Pep Hamilton is gone and we will get a new OC at the least that hopefully will utilize our TEs better, IMO. Fleener will get more in the open market than Allen. Availability trumps ability any day of the week in the NFL.

[Coffeedrinker]

I would do that trade today. Not out of spite or because I dislike Allen, but because I figure he's gone after this season, I doubt he'll be 100% through the rest of the season, and even if we got a compensatory 4th from him leaving, we wouldn't get it until 2017. But I don't think the Lions are going to give up a 4th for an oft-injured TE who is a free agent at the end of the season.

 

 

Yeah, right now, as it stands, we'd be lucky to get a 6th rounder for Allen, to be honest. Most likely, it will be a TE needy team like the Steelers that may pick him up in the off season. As long as he doesn't go to the Broncos or Patriots, I'm OK with that.

 

Fleener, on the other hand, we have to re-sign. In all likelihood, Pep Hamilton is gone and we will get a new OC at the least that hopefully will utilize our TEs better, IMO. Fleener will get more in the open market than Allen. Availability trumps ability any day of the week in the NFL.

I'd take a 6th for Allen for the reasons Superman point out.  He will be gone next, IMO, and if the Colts can get something for him now that'd be great.

 

Plus the Lions don't necessarily need him for the whole season, just long enough to get Ebron back from his leg injury.

[Superman]

I'd take a 6th for Allen for the reasons Superman point out.  He will be gone next, IMO, and if the Colts can get something for him now that'd be great.

 

Plus the Lions don't necessarily need him for the whole season, just long enough to get Ebron back from his leg injury.

 

Other thing is that the Lions are 0-4 and might not be looking to make moves right now.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would take a 6th Round pick as well for Allen for reasons expressed above by many posters. We have Fleener who is good enough. That extra draft pick could yield another OLineman. I would love to be able to get a 4th Round pick for him but I know that probably wont happen.

[Coffeedrinker]

Other thing is that the Lions are 0-4 and might not be looking to make moves right now.

I'm not following the reasoning with that.  Plus right now Wright is there only TE.  They'd probably be more likely to sign someone like McGrath than trade but Allen is a talent and if the Colts made the call, I bet they'd listen.

[Superman]

I'm not following the reasoning with that.  Plus right now Wright is there only TE.  They'd probably be more likely to sign someone like McGrath than trade but Allen is a talent and if the Colts made the call, I bet they'd listen.

 

It's not like they have great odds to save their season, or even like Allen would be the guy to save it for them. And Allen is a free agent after this year, so he doesn't help them moving forward.

[ColtsLegacy]

I'm not following the reasoning with that. Plus right now Wright is there only TE. They'd probably be more likely to sign someone like McGrath than trade but Allen is a talent and if the Colts made the call, I bet they'd listen.

their*

Redemption.

[ColtsLegacy]

I'd trade Allen for a 4th, only because I highly doubt he returns next year, even if the Colts offer him a fair contract. But, I think he is more valuable, even for just this season, than a 6th round pick.

[Solon]

Well, since Moncrief right now has more receptions than TY the idea that Luck only targets TY is false.

It's not false at all. Once Luck comes back, we'll look at the targets between the two.

[jvan1973]

The Colts can't keep both Fleener and Allen. Cap economics just won't allow it. Keep Fleener and Doyle. Doyle can block and catch and he stays relatively healthy......and he's very affordable. Draft another Doyle style TE and move on.

They certainly can keep both if they want to.

[BlueShoe]

I can categorically state that this will not happen, in this universe, or any parallel universe. Just sayin....

 

If I had a dollar for everyone on these boards who had your mislead confidence. Just sayin....

[jvan1973]

If I had a dollar for everyone on these boards who had your mislead confidence. Just sayin....

It's pretty easy to predict they won't let both Allen and Fleener go.

[BlueShoe]

It's pretty easy to predict they won't let both Allen and Fleener go.

I am not so sure. We could just as easily allow them both to hit the market. I am not sold keeping either one is a long term plan.

Not so sure why so many others are sold we will keep both of them.

Plus a lot of changes could happen in the front office by the end of this year.

[jvan1973]

I am not so sure. We could just as easily allow them both to hit the market. I am not sold keeping either one is a long term plan.

Not so sure why so many others are sold we will keep both of them.

Plus a lot of changes could happen in the front office by the end of this year.

I don't think keeping them both is a lock. But I have a hard time believing neither will be on the team next year

[BlueShoe]

I don't think keeping them both is a lock. But I have a hard time believing neither will be on the team next year

It's one of those things that could go a few different ways.

In my mind, Doyle seems to be the safest bet, because while he isn't as good of a blocker as Allen, he is solid. He can also contribute with his hands. Plus he is very cheap to keep around for a while.

To me, it makes sense to keep Doyle and pair him with a draft pick.

A lot can happen between now and then though. We'll see how it plays out.

[smittywerb]

I agree we should spread out and spread the ball. Too much speed between Hilton, moncreif and dorsett. Let fleener create mismatches.

[JH8788]

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Kickoff-Luncheon-Dwayne-Allen-Talks-Colts-Offense/cbf3d358-730e-49fd-a013-3720a3a89df2

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Dwayne-Allen-on-0-2-Start-Way-Higher-Standards/d60bc7f5-4a52-4813-9e55-b47cad95dbb6

 

To the people who are getting on Dwayne's case about what he said, he's reiterating what he said a couple times before. And at the Kickoff Luncheon, while he said that he & Coby joke about them being the clear out guy for T.Y., there's a lot of truth to that comment. Yes we're all highly frustrated that he has issues staying healthy & the timing of the comment was bad since he is currently hurt right now, but all he's trying to say is that Andrew doesn't always have to lean on T.Y., he has plenty of other options as well. The way I see it, while you want everybody to be team players, you have to have guys who want the ball & aren't shy about it being known.

[Mr.Debonair]

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Kickoff-Luncheon-Dwayne-Allen-Talks-Colts-Offense/cbf3d358-730e-49fd-a013-3720a3a89df2

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Dwayne-Allen-on-0-2-Start-Way-Higher-Standards/d60bc7f5-4a52-4813-9e55-b47cad95dbb6

To the people who are getting on Dwayne's case about what he said, he's reiterating what he said a couple times before. And at the Kickoff Luncheon, while he said that he & Coby joke about them being the clear out guy for T.Y., there's a lot of truth to that comment. Yes we're all highly frustrated that he has issues staying healthy & the timing of the comment was bad since he is currently hurt right now, but all he's trying to say is that Andrew doesn't always have to lean on T.Y., he has plenty of other options as well. The way I see it, while you want everybody to be team players, you have to have guys who want the ball & aren't shy about it being known.

Most ppl agree with his assessment just thought the medium he used to discuss was wrong

[JH8788]

I know ppl agree, I was just highlighting that this isn't the 1st time he's mentioned wanting the ball more along with getting Coby more touches as well.

[jayt327]

I'm sure calling out Luck is the way to get him the ball more...(sarcasm)

[krunk]

I ain't tripping off nothing Allen said. When we are at our best you see Luck spreading the ball around. That's how it was last year in the games where we put up a lot of points. Spread the ball around, run the freaking football!

[Coffeedrinker]

It's not false at all. Once Luck comes back, we'll look at the targets between the two.

Oh, so it's just luck targeting TY.  Well, let's see, in the first three games with Luck as QB he targeted Hilton 28 times.  He targeted Moncrief 26 times.  So, yes, the idea that Luck only targets TY is false.

[Tsarquise]

Yes they can, but no, they won't.

.

Why won't they?

[bleevit]

One thing sticks out.  With Pep's shorter passing game plan for Matt, Coby Fleenor suddenly reappeared.  IMO the base passing game for Luck should be closer to what they ran against the Jags.  They can still go longer once the rush simmers down a bit.  With Houston though, it may not.  Stay shorter, stay on the field, protect the QB a little bit and good things could happen.

[Hoose]

They certainly can keep both if they want to.

Ok. You argue that both Fleener and Allen could be resigned.

 

They could theoretically keep both but it makes no sense because of the other big contracts they need to shell out and because serious holes remain  in the lineup. That extra money should be going to help pay for a new free agent Guard/Tackle; perhaps a new free agent Center; and another top caliber CB. Then you have Luck's contract, which I presume they will complete before they have to franchise him. As a result, the cap space gets very thin very quickly. Keeping two relatively expensive TE's is a luxury the Colts will not be able to afford. 

 

Fleener will command a much higher salary because he's a much more important commodity; a quality pass catching TE with speed who basically plays every game.Every team looks for a player like this. Allen has slipped from his freshman year; his hands are less reliable and he cannot stay healthy. Again, keep Fleener and Doyle; find another Doyle clone, and move on. 

[Hoose]

Plus, I really do like Doyle. The guy can play; I think he can be Allen's replacement. Not quite the same athlete, but durable, and a far better player than people give him credit. I don't think the Colts miss much of a beat at all with Doyle replacing Allen. 

 

Ok. You argue that both Fleener and Allen could be resigned.

 

They could theoretically keep both but it makes no sense because of the other big contracts they need to shell out and because serious holes remain  in the lineup. That extra money should be going to help pay for a new free agent Guard/Tackle; perhaps a new free agent Center; and another top caliber CB. Then you have Luck's contract, which I presume they will complete before they have to franchise him. As a result, the cap space gets very thin very quickly. Keeping two relatively expensive TE's is a luxury the Colts will not be able to afford. 

 

Fleener will command a much higher salary because he's a much more important commodity; a quality pass catching TE with speed who basically plays every game.Every team looks for a player like this. Allen has slipped from his freshman year; his hands are less reliable and he cannot stay healthy. Again, keep Fleener and Doyle; find another Doyle clone, and move on. 

[Superman]

Ok. You argue that both Fleener and Allen could be resigned.

 

They could theoretically keep both but it makes no sense because of the other big contracts they need to shell out and because serious holes remain  in the lineup. That extra money should be going to help pay for a new free agent Guard/Tackle; perhaps a new free agent Center; and another top caliber CB. Then you have Luck's contract, which I presume they will complete before they have to franchise him. As a result, the cap space gets very thin very quickly. Keeping two relatively expensive TE's is a luxury the Colts will not be able to afford. 

 

Fleener will command a much higher salary because he's a much more important commodity; a quality pass catching TE with speed who basically plays every game.Every team looks for a player like this. Allen has slipped from his freshman year; his hands are less reliable and he cannot stay healthy. Again, keep Fleener and Doyle; find another Doyle clone, and move on. 

 

I've done the numbers. http://forums.colts.com/topic/38882-cap-projections-w-main-guys/

 

The Colts can retain Allen, Fleener and Luck this offseason, and still be $30m under the projected 2016 cap. And that's assuming we keep guys like Arthur Jones, Trent Cole and Andre Johnson after this season. It's also with contract projections for Fleener and Allen that are probably a little ambitious, based on how they're playing right now. Realistically speaking, if we get rid of some under-performing veterans and roll forward the unused 2015 cap space, there's plenty of flexibility. I haven't updated my numbers since the Hilton/AC deals (still no details on AC's contract, a month later, which irritates me). But if you want these free agent linemen and a corner -- and it's a little early to be talking about free agent needs, but fine -- there's cap space.

 

Still, the point is that the Colts are fine cap wise, even keeping both TEs. I don't expect them to at this point, but that's not because we won't have the cap space.

[Superman]

Why won't they?

 

My assumption is that a) one of them wants too much money and gets it in free agency, or b) Allen can't stay healthy all year and the team moves on from him. It's a non-premium position with a low replacement cost. I think we can move on from one of them without the quality of the roster being sacrificed.

[southwest1]

Allen needs to pump himself up with Adamantium so he can play a full game first. 

 

I did accidently pee on his dog once, true story. 

Okay, if this means I'm strange so be it, but you've got me curious now. Send me a PM about that story M-432. Not too many INDY fans can lay claim to that headline feature. LOL! I gotta hear this 1 in all it's glory.

 

Again, it depends on how you define dominant. I think he was easily one of, if not the best, blocking TE his rookie year. And, he was a great target in the passing game as well, when utilized.

The injuries have been a damn shame. He's got all the talent in the world. I hope he can get back to and exceed his rookie form. I'm not sure Pep's offense is the best place for him to do that.

You read my mind man. Darn, you're good. I'd be targeting Allen so much if I was under center, but I'll admit I'm biased toward #83 flat out. I'm not alienating Fleener either. I just want to see both TE's targeted more evenly that's all. 

[southwest1]

I think it's one thing to say you'd like more opportunity and another to comment on the team as a whole.  That's not his job and I'll bet he regrets doing that. 

 

dysfunctional: characterized by a breakdown of normal or beneficial relationships between members of the group.

 

 Not exactly ONE Team stuff

Yes Nadine, you're exactly right, if Dwayne Allen does have an issue with how he is being utilized in this offense, request a meeting 1 on 1 behind closed doors with Pep & Chuck to voice your concerns. Never, never, never do it in the media. Keep all disagreements in house. Allen made a mistake here. Not professional at all. 

 

Also, if he is gone from INDY next year, don't think that other GMs aren't looking at how Allen is conducting himself when it comes to airing his grievances out in the open for all to see & hear. He's costing him money because some front offices will say we don't want a TE with loose lips no matter how athletically gifted he truly is. 

[ColtRider]

I ain't tripping off nothing Allen said. When we are at our best you see Luck spreading the ball around. That's how it was last year in the games where we put up a lot of points. Spread the ball around, run the freaking football!

This. Especially this. Although it's been tough on Luck so far this season, (injury wise) nothing comes so close to the truth. Even without Andrew leading at QB, this still should be the way to attack every opponent regardless who's QBing.