Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[Goatface Killah]

2 hours ago, Solid84 said:

So four times in 8 years.

 

We've just spent $200m to stay the same. I mean instead re-signing Stewart and extending Franklin sign Arik Armstead and Frankie Luvu than add a safety like Kamren Curl and a CB like Sean Murphy-Bunting. That would've cost us, what, $20m year more? Tell me the defense wouldn't instantly be better...

Is that what that means? That you "stay the same" unless you sign high priced free agents? 

 

No, I dont think the defense wouldve been better with Arik Armstead playing NT. 

 

Btw Arik Armstead has to be one of the most overrated guys Ive ever seen on here. Dude has 14.5 sacks over the last 4 years and just isnt nearly as good as people make him out to be. He was severely overpaid and SF made a big mistake choosing to invest in him over Buck a few years ago. 

[Hoose]

4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’d like to focus on one paragraph.   The one about AR working out.   You connect AR working out, which will take 2-4 more years to confirm with “the roster as it is now.”    Thats a flaw.   When we know about AR working out, whether it’s 26, or 27,  that will be connected to the roster that he has THEN, not the roster he has NOW.   See the disconnect?  The roster should be better to support AR.

 

And I wouldn’t call guys like Luvu or Stone, both guys I like, as shiny toys.  They’re solid players I think we’d all like.  The Sony toys are the four big name plays you listed.  Those guys are just too expensive.  

I would not include Huff in your group of “shiny new toys”. His stats show a special player who was underutilized by the Jets. I think he’d have made the Colts’ pass rush special, and will prove to be a bargain at $17m. 

[Goatface Killah]

9 minutes ago, Hoose said:

I would not include Huff in your group of “shiny new toys”. His stats show a special player who was underutilized by the Jets. I think he’d have made the Colts’ pass rush special, and will prove to be a bargain at $17m. 

Hows he gonna make our pass rush special sharing snaps with Ebukam, Paye, Lewis, Odeyingbo? 

 

He is a situational rusher. He is a good one, but thats all he is. And he would be very redundant with Paye and Ebukam here. 

[NFLfan]

From the Athletic (what you all already knew):

 

Quote

(Power rank)14. Indianapolis Colts

Post-Super Bowl rank: 14

 

Notable additions: DT Raekwon Davis, QB Joe Flacco

 

Notable losses: QB Gardner Minshew, RB Zack Moss

 

Quote

Externally, it was a quiet free agency for the Colts, but they committed $170 million to hang on to their internal talent — re-upping with wide receiver Michael Pittman Jr., linebacker Zaire Franklin, defensive lineman Grover Stewart and safety Kenny Moore II.

 

Quote

Now, Indianapolis gets to see if young quarterback Anthony Richardson is the real deal. Richardson, whose rookie season was cut short by shoulder surgery, started throwing again in February.

 

https://theathletic.com/5348015/2024/03/19/nfl-power-rankings-free-agency-texans-cowboys?source=user-shared-article

[chad72]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Absolutely... Ballard just is very high on... himself. He likes the guys he has liked before and there is noone that likes his guys like he likes them(thus he's the one resigning them)...

 

My soccer team is in deep financial trouble and can't afford much of any new signings of substance so when asked by reporters about his roster our coach said "If you can't have what you like, you better like what you have". I feel like that with the Colts. Except there is no financial reason for the Colts to limit themselves like that. It's purely philosophical approach by the GM. 

 

We have gotten to the point, whether you are a Ballard supporter or detractor for his "purgatory approach", talk is cheap and if Ballard and AR along with Steichen don't win the division by the 2025 season, Ballard needs to be shown the door so that we can see what another GM would do with AR while he is still on his rookie contract.

[cdgacoltsfan]

7 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

From the Athletic (what you all already knew):

 

 

 

 

https://theathletic.com/5348015/2024/03/19/nfl-power-rankings-free-agency-texans-cowboys?source=user-shared-article

The link is to a site you have to pay for. Can you list the team rankings.

Thanks

[csmopar]

56 minutes ago, 07dleigh said:

 Man, I am realllly starting to get frustrated...

I've always liked Ballard.. a lot. I'm typically all for what he stands for: methodical vs rapid, effective vs flashy, sticking to your guns regardless of pressure.. I liked his rare "build the trenches and play physical" philosophy in contrast to today's game, heck, I just like the guy.. I like his swagger and confidence.

 

But wth are we doing, man? WHY is he so okay with having NONE of the top ANYTHING in the game? Year after year.. in a division that's so winnable? Is he trying to win an award for best cap management or is he trying to get over a hump? THESE ONE YEAR DEALS AREN'T GOING TO GET IT DONE.

 

This isn't about Sneed.. frankly I'm not even sure how I'd feel about paying a 28 year old corner so much. I wouldn't mind but that's not what I'm on about. I feel like this was a great FA (and trade candidate) class in positions we could use, and we did NOTHING... while letting our division rivals open a gap. If there was a year to do something that ACTUALLY made a difference, I thought it'd be this year given we actually have the QB.

 

Sorry, had to rant with my morning coffee before I took it out on my coworkers 😆. Go Colts, nonetheless.

I’ve been a big Ballard fan myself. And I was starting to get frustrated with him myself. But then I got to thinking, we still don’t actually know what we have with AR. Yeah he flashed, but so did RG3 and others. The questions surrounding his durability are valid. So why hamstring the team with giant contracts if we still do not know? Ballard can’t come out and say that directly, but I would bet that is his thought process and honestly, it’s one I’d agree with

[w87r]

19 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

The link is to a site you have to pay for. Can you list the team rankings.

Thanks

14

[tfunky14]

31 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

We have gotten to the point, whether you are a Ballard supporter or detractor for his "purgatory approach", talk is cheap and if Ballard and AR along with Steichen don't win the division by the 2025 season, Ballard needs to be shown the door so that we can see what another GM would do with AR while he is still on his rookie contract.

yea that makes sense and the Colts be like the Chargers and have to release their two stud WR.  

[VikingsFanInChennai]

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Actually they can’t without some restructuring which as has been pointed out the Colts could do but don’t seem interested in it.  When you account for rookies and Flacco they have something like $13 or $14 left and Sneed wants $22 million a year.  That’s also just this year.  The Colts will have more free agents they will want to sign next year like Buckner perhaps that may want a raise and you can’t count on another $30 million cap increase like this year.  

The point is, unlike Stephen Holder says, it's never Expensive Free Agent Vs Our Own Free Agents

 

A GM and capologist can make it work easily to have signed both Sneed and own free agents, and Buckner wanting extension next year will not have to be an hindrance, nor the cap not extending next year by 30 million dollar again - you can just make a free agent every year like that every year as excuse but with how Ballard has managed well so far, it's not going to capsize the future if he starts to play cap-economics.

 

Colts just didn't want to pay for Sneed (yet), and it could be for any reason, even other than the spend. Let's see what comes out of it. 

[hoosierhawk]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

So four times in 8 years.

 

We've just spent $200m to stay the same. I mean instead re-signing Stewart and extending Franklin sign Arik Armstead and Frankie Luvu than add a safety like Kamren Curl and a CB like Sean Murphy-Bunting. That would've cost us, what, $20m year more? Tell me the defense wouldn't instantly be better...

Absolutely no proof the D would have been better even though you spent 20M more which we currently don't have considering paying the draft choices. I prefer that we signed our own who are very good players and still have some bucks left to sign possible a CB and FS that is still left in FA.

Really surprised you continue to be a Colt fan. Seems the only player you express as liking is AR.  

[BlackTiger]

Looks like there were not a whole of lot of big moves around the league this year.  

 

Play making positions like WR, edge and CB were kind of weak classes.  Pittman would have been the best WR if we let him go.

 

The Falcons could be good with Cousins.  Wilson and the Steelers might make the division tough.  Barkley to the Eagles could be a good one

 

A lot of teams spent big re signing their own. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

7 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Looks like there were not a whole of lot of big moves around the league this year.  

 

Play making positions like WR, edge and CB were kind of weak classes.  Pittman would have been the best WR if we let him go.

 

The Falcons could be good with Cousins.  Wilson and the Steelers might make the division tough.  Barkley to the Eagles could be a good one

 

A lot of teams spent big re signing their own. 

Even if it were a strong FA class in any position, that'd not have made a difference for Colts, as Ballard rarely will ever go for the strongest of those FAs because they would be the expensive ones, and it would mean over-paying and if they happen to be out of rookie deal, it could also mean a trade parting with precious draft picks, with which Ballard will draft and develop a better team.

 

That's the very basis of ~100 pages here. 

[Solid84]

29 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Absolutely no proof the D would have been better even though you spent 20M more which we currently don't have considering paying the draft choices. I prefer that we signed our own who are very good players and still have some bucks left to sign possible a CB and FS that is still left in FA.

Really surprised you continue to be a Colt fan. Seems the only player you express as liking is AR.  

Well, every player I mentioned are better than players we have in situations we need to get better in - pass rush and coverage.

 

I could get into a back and forth about what makes a fan a fan, but I honestly couldn't be bothered with you.

 

Edit: And me only liking AR is also very wrong, but keep making up your reality...

[BlackTiger]

4 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

That's the very basis of ~100 pages here. 

Makes me wonder how high this will go.  Will we even say much of anything besides bickering??

 

Stay tuned

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, Goatface Killah said:

Hows he gonna make our pass rush special sharing snaps with Ebukam, Paye, Lewis, Odeyingbo? 

 

He is a situational rusher. He is a good one, but thats all he is. And he would be very redundant with Paye and Ebukam here. 

Because his sack and QB hit rate is off the charts. Sign him and you don’t sign Lewis? Let’s not kid ourselves. The Colts’ pass rush late in games was non existent. They need more talent there and will have to address it one way or another. This was a rare opportunity to nab a rising talent while still affordable. 

[runthepost]

47 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Absolutely no proof the D would have been better even though you spent 20M more which we currently don't have considering paying the draft choices. I prefer that we signed our own who are very good players and still have some bucks left to sign possible a CB and FS that is still left in FA.

Really surprised you continue to be a Colt fan. Seems the only player you express as liking is AR.  

Defense was ranked those the bottom last season even with us playing against 10 rookies and backup QBs

[BlackTiger]

We might be ok at safety if Cross and Harrison dont miss too much time.  We dont have depth behind them though.

 

We need to add a starting outside CB, we will still be thin and maybe a bit weak even after doing that unless we find a good one in the draft.  Rookie corners often dont do a whole lot too.

 

If it started today I think Flowers and Brents would be our outside corners?  We need someone that will put some fear into he best WRs in the league.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

We might be ok at safety if Cross and Harrison dont miss too much time.  We dont have depth behind them though.

 

We need to add a starting outside CB, we will still be thin and maybe a bit weak even after doing that unless we find a good one in the draft.  Rookie corners often dont do a whole lot too.

Correct. Rookie corners need a couple of seasons before they often "click". 

 

That's why I feel this team, from Irsay to Ballard to Steichen all view this year as Year One with Anthony. The plan is to be competitive and develop the kid. Really feels like 2025 is the main event year. 

[BlackTiger]

4 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Correct. Rookie corners need a couple of seasons before they often "click". 

 

That's why I feel this team, from Irsay to Ballard to Steichen all view this year as Year One with Anthony. The plan is to be competitive and develop the kid. Really feels like 2025 is the main event year. 

It makes sense, we could use an offensive play maker from the draft too though. Might be hard to do that if we have Flowers and Brents as our starting outside CBs

 

Those two were not bad but they wont put any fear into the best WRs in the league

[Goatface Killah]

11 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Because his sack and QB hit rate is off the charts. Sign him and you don’t sign Lewis? Let’s not kid ourselves. The Colts’ pass rush late in games was non existent. They need more talent there and will have to address it one way or another. This was a rare opportunity to nab a rising talent while still affordable. 

I think you are shortchanging the guys we already have. 

[stitches]

 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Can't even seal the deal with Mike Edwards. This FA is an absolute clownshow disaster. 

[BlackTiger]

Blackmon seemed like an obvious re sign to me.  Guess he wanted too much 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

From the Athletic (what you all already knew):

 

 

 

 

https://theathletic.com/5348015/2024/03/19/nfl-power-rankings-free-agency-texans-cowboys?source=user-shared-article

#14 is high for a team that missed playoffs last season. It would mean that they ranked Colts higher than at least one of those recent play-off teams!  

That's a high praise for Colts. 

[John Waylon]

3 hours ago, Goatface Killah said:

So him drafting a bunch of corners and pass rushers over the last couple of years counts for nothing? Saying he doesnt try to improve the pass defense is just blatantly false. 

Every year grigson flailed wildly to fix the offensive line his entire tenure. 
 

And still never accomplished that. 
 

Just because you draft a guy ≠ fix. Especially when you have a history of day 1 and 2 whiffs as long as Ballard does. A swing and a miss is a swing and a darn miss no matter how much effort and good intention go into the swing. 
 

Now the misses are starting to pile up, and they’re getting dangerously close to out-weighing the hits. 
 

It’s just more bandaids, now at positions other than QB. There were ways to noticeably improve this defense without breaking the bank in FA, but we’re doubling down and running it back instead. If we sign anyone it’s going to be some mid player on a short, team-friendly deal and our secondary is gonna look like a bunch of jabronis out there this fall. Again. Then we’ll have to sit around in the fall and talk about why the defense hasn’t gotten any better and is the difference keeping us from being a contender. Hell, we still need WRs just two years after “I like the guys we have” and now it’s a problem that’s made its way to the secondary.

If only someone could solve this inescapable mystery of the universe. If only, I say!

 

We've seen the effect, we’ve seen the cause, why people are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5 is beyond explanation at this point. 

 

[Nevbot]

I am starting to wonder what Blackmon and Edwards are looking for.  What do you all think they are worth?

I would think Blackmon might command 6-9 mil a year?  Edwards approximately the same or a bit more since he was playing for  SB champ?

 

[throwing BBZ]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I’ve been a big Ballard fan myself. And I was starting to get frustrated with him myself. But then I got to thinking, we still don’t actually know what we have with AR. Yeah he flashed, but so did RG3 and others. The questions surrounding his durability are valid. So why hamstring the team with giant contracts if we still do not know? Ballard can’t come out and say that directly, but I would bet that is his thought process and honestly, it’s one I’d agree with

 

 With so many "incompletes" with important 1st and 2nd year players, a move for that guy that fills a big need, that player or two that makes us a SB contender, clearly the timing isn't right.

 The rumor that Sneed wants to be the highest paid allows me to believe that once Ballard knew that, he was never in. 

 

[John Waylon]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I’ve been a big Ballard fan myself. And I was starting to get frustrated with him myself. But then I got to thinking, we still don’t actually know what we have with AR. Yeah he flashed, but so did RG3 and others. The questions surrounding his durability are valid. So why hamstring the team with giant contracts if we still do not know? Ballard can’t come out and say that directly, but I would bet that is his thought process and honestly, it’s one I’d agree with

Because his * is on the line. Square on the line. If Richardson doesn’t work out, he’s curtains. We've given this guy a pair of presidencies now to make this team into anything, and it’s stuck squarely in the middle, if not slightly  worse, and his record  reflects that. 
 

If Richardson doesn’t work out, the absolute best thing Ballard could do to keep as much of that stink off of himself as he could would be to build a team that showed improvements in other areas. It’s the ONLY thing that gives Ballard any chance of surviving a Richardson bust. But he can’t point to any of the units on this team and say “at least we’ve made that better” in his own defense. 

 

This “sitting around to wait and see” approach hasn’t worked. It doesn’t work. It won’t work. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Hoose said:

I would not include Huff in your group of “shiny new toys”. His stats show a special player who was underutilized by the Jets. I think he’d have made the Colts’ pass rush special, and will prove to be a bargain at $17m. 

I’m not saying players like Huff aren’t good.  I’m saying Ballard doesn’t sign guys like that.   Too expensive.   

[richard pallo]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

We have gotten to the point, whether you are a Ballard supporter or detractor for his "purgatory approach", talk is cheap and if Ballard and AR along with Steichen don't win the division by the 2025 season, Ballard needs to be shown the door so that we can see what another GM would do with AR while he is still on his rookie contract.

I actually think Ballard will be shown the door this year if we don’t make the playoffs.   I think he knows it too.  The only excuse that could save him is if AR misses significant time again.  God forbid.  I have no problem resigning our own players.  They are an instrumental part of a solid nucleus of our team.  We were close to making the playoffs with a backup quarterback who played the vast majority of the games during the entire season.   Who would have thought.  Ballard knows he has some holes to fill.  I think he was and is still interested in Sneed.  Until Sneed is extended by the Chiefs or traded to another team I think the Colts will still be suitors.  A trade might not happen until the draft so I wouldn’t say the door is closed on that happening by any means.  I think there are meaningful signings that could still happen.  And meaningful trades that could also happen.  I think we are in a good place right now with time and many options and choices at our disposal.  I have to say I wish more additions would happen sooner rather than later.  I just keep telling myself it’s only the second week of FA.  So not a catastrophe. But patience is hard.  Ballard appears to have it.  And I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing.  It’s like the tortoise and the hare.  He’s definitely the tortoise.  I hope his race ends the same way.  I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

[lester]

9 hours ago, Solid84 said:

Noone does what Ballard does and he hasn’t had success doing it, so noone’s trying to replicate it. 

 

Let's play a game. Who said this:

 

“Free agency in and of itself is an overpayment situation. That said, if your own players are quality players and you believe they can help you win then it’s better off to pay them because they’re as good or better as you can find in the market and you know them better than you know a player from another team. You’re paying a premium, but you put it into a player you know and believe in. He has no adjustments coming into your system. It’s pretty seamless. When you have good players, when you’ve drafted well, it follows that the more you can keep the better off you are. That’s the right way to go rather than trying to get someone else’s players.“

[Superman]

10 hours ago, Solid84 said:

This gets peddled like it means spending in FA doesn’t work. The Rams won a Super Bowl by spending.

 

Several other teams have gone crazy in free agency, with nothing to show for it. In fact, the Rams were trying to maximize a window and were aggressively spending for a couple years before they won. The big change was upgrading the QB position.

 

They also didn't really spend in free agency. They traded premium draft picks for some big name players, and most times they rented that player for a season or two, and then traded the player away or let him walk in free agency. They traded for Jalen Ramsey, and then signed him to a new contract the following year. Still more aggressive than the Colts, but would qualify as 'keeping their own' more than 'spending in free agency.' 

 

And what gets missed is that the Rams spent less in cash and cap in 2021 -- the year they won the SB -- than they did in 2022 -- the year they went 5-12. Per Spotrac, cash spending in 2021 was $192m; cash spending in 2022 was $284m. Then they had to reset in 2023, and cash spending came back down to $183m, and they went 10-7. (There's a similar dynamic when you compare the 2020 Bucs with the 2021 Bucs.)

 

So why do you correlate spending money with winning? I would argue there is no correlation.

 

The Rams won the SB in the year they spent the least. If you want to say 'being aggressive can be a successful strategy,' I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but I would add that it only works if you have the right QB.

 

5 hours ago, stitches said:

Absolutely... Ballard just is very high on... himself. He likes the guys he has liked before and there is noone that likes his guys like he likes them(thus he's the one resigning them)...

 

I was going to chime in on this, because it's not that the Colts aren't spending money. As has been mentioned, they've spent plenty of money this offseason. I'm not thrilled about the way they've spent, so far, but to say they aren't spending money isn't true. If you compare the Colts' cash spending with pretty much any other team over any 3-4 year period, it's going to be about the same. But the Colts have been paying DT, LG, ILB, RT, RB, now a possession receiver, and at various points veteran QBs of varying quality that all turned out to be one year rentals (also a retired QB, a backup QB, and a cap penalty for Matt Ryan in 2023). Whereas other teams are paying dynamic WR, Edge, LT, CB, and mostly foundational QBs.

[Yoshinator]

4 minutes ago, lester said:

 

Let's play a game. Who said this:

 

“Free agency in and of itself is an overpayment situation. That said, if your own players are quality players and you believe they can help you win then it’s better off to pay them because they’re as good or better as you can find in the market and you know them better than you know a player from another team. You’re paying a premium, but you put it into a player you know and believe in. He has no adjustments coming into your system. It’s pretty seamless. When you have good players, when you’ve drafted well, it follows that the more you can keep the better off you are. That’s the right way to go rather than trying to get someone else’s players.“

I would guess Bill Polian?

[Indeee]

6 minutes ago, lester said:

 

Let's play a game. Who said this:

 

“Free agency in and of itself is an overpayment situation. That said, if your own players are quality players and you believe they can help you win then it’s better off to pay them because they’re as good or better as you can find in the market and you know them better than you know a player from another team. You’re paying a premium, but you put it into a player you know and believe in. He has no adjustments coming into your system. It’s pretty seamless. When you have good players, when you’ve drafted well, it follows that the more you can keep the better off you are. That’s the right way to go rather than trying to get someone else’s players.“

Let's play another game. Who here believes the bolded is true in the current Colts team case? 

 

I personally don't as the success rate and results are actual fact and not speculation. Speculation here is the "believing the players can win" part. 

 

This current group has not won anything but just enough games to keep us out of the playoffs and in the middle of the pack, so we miss out on top 10 draft talent.

 

 

 

 

[#12.]

14 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

If Richardson doesn’t work out, the absolute best thing Ballard could do to keep as much of that stink off of himself as he could would be to build a team that showed improvements in other areas.

 

There's only one way Ballard could survive another Richardson season knockout or a Richardson bust:  they hedge their bets, draft another young QB, and that QB shows quite a bit.  Even a 9-8 or 10-7 repeat of what Minshew did from Flacco probably wouldn't save Ballard.   

 

[BlackTiger]

21 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

would think Blackmon might command 6-9 mil a year?

 

Pff predicted about 6 for Blackmon.  

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, #12. said:

 

There's only one way Ballard could survive another Richardson season knockout or a Richardson bust - they hedge their bets, draft another young QB, and that QB shows quite a bit.  Even a 9-8 or 10-7 repeat of what Minshew did from Flacco probably wouldn't save Ballard.   

 

I think a playoff berth saves Ballard for one more year. If we win the division and/or a playoff game or more, it may give him extra rope. If he misses it IMO, he's gone no matter what, even if Richardson gets hurt again (unless Flacco does his magic or something again).

[BlackTiger]

Keep drafting very young QBs "with potential" and you will never be on the hot seat.

 

Genius plan

[Dr. T]

If 2024 is considered year one for Richardson and he continues to improve, Ballard will last another four years at least. But if Richardson is a flop, Ballard will then be a goner much sooner, IMHO.