Raimann

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, KB said:

This season has brought out the best in all of us.

 

I'm glad Raimann has done so well. Shows there isn't a big road to improvement ahead for the o line. Probably the team as a whole.

They need a right guard for sure and maybe a new center but the rest of the line is fine so I agree with you.  With as balanced as the NFL you are almost always a player or two away from being really good or really bad.

[crazycolt1]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

They need a right guard for sure and maybe a new center but the rest of the line is fine so I agree with you.  With as balanced as the NFL you are almost always a player or two away from being really good or really bad.

Agreed. I think every draft should include at least 1 or 2 linemen taken to cover injuries and depth. 

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Ballard had a very solid draft even without a 1st rounder due to the awful Wentz trade that Reich wanted. I’m actually good with Ballard staying as GM, so long as he humbles himself and stops being so stubborn in free agency and gets more aggressive when he identifies a franchise QB within Indy’s grasp in the draft. 

I think it was a solid draft too.  I think the players we wanted happen to be sitting there for the taking, so its not particularly impressive decision making, but the draft was very solid.  Being solid and being impressive are two different things.  Kinda like picking Luck with the first pick when you have it and he's there.  Solid decisioning, but somewhat obvious.

 

I don't get the Frank tie in to the draft pick.  Are you saying that Frank decided to give up a first round pick for Wentz?  I know that he wanted him as the QB, but to my knowledge, a HC isn't the one deciding what kind of capital to give up.   Do you think Ballard thought that a first round pick was fair compensation for Philly?  Or are you saying that Ballard didn't like the price but Irsay told him to accommodate Frank?

 

I've been reading comments that are trying to sell the idea that Frank is responsible for the personnel on offense and not the GM.  I want to be clear about what you're saying, because there seems to be a pivot about who is responsible for draft capital within your comment that I'm not following.  Its a solid offensive draft for Ballard as the GM, except for the first round draft pick that Frank made Ballard give up.

 

[stitches]

6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Hoping he hits the weights hard in the offseason. Promising improvement. 

Pryor's grades weren't horrible on LT. They were horrible at RG. 

Not 100% certain but I think he had some truly horrific grades at LT the previous years with the Eagles. Again in limited snaps -simply because noone would let him play that position so badly for that long. The bigger point is - it was indeed very limited. I think he only played like 1 game and a half for us at LT last year. That was why I was much more willing to put more weight on all the previous evidence from playing all over the line that he's not as good as that grade at LT was. There is no reason why a great LT would struggle so much at every other position he's played AND at LT in previous attempts to play the position. And it turned out with more chances to play he was indeed horrible all around the line. 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Raimann sure has stepped up. Glad he is earning his spot, and keeping Pryor where he belongs (on the bench) 

[gspdx]

11 hours ago, RollerColt said:

Good gravy, people… I didn’t mean for this to become another Ballard flame war. I just wanted to give a shout-out to our rookie LT for doing a good job. 

 

Some people can't help it.

[Myles]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The point about Raimann is that Ballard made a correct professional judgement that Raimann would be there at 77.   Other teams could’ve picked Raimann before the Colts did.  
 

Woods has actually had a very good rookie season.   In hindsight, both players could’ve been drafted sooner than they eventually went.  
 

As a big Ballard supporter, I’m beyond furious with him.  (I’d love to be at his year end press conference)   But that doesn’t stop me from giving him credit when he makes good decisions which he did in the 2022 draft.   I try not to reduce people to all good or all bad.  Ballard has made some good decisions even in his worst year by far. 

Some people are stuck thinking it must be all one way or all the other.   It's a shame that they stick themselves in that hole.  

[richard pallo]

14 hours ago, RollerColt said:

He’s had his ups and downs, but with 1 game left in the season his PFF is 72.3, which is the highest rated among all rookie lineman. Good for our rookie to learn and grow in a turbulent season. 

Curious.  Do you know how the other OL graded out for the game?  

[stitches]

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

On 1/2/2023 at 7:13 PM, DougDew said:

Good for him.  Expectations are high.

 

I hope Raimann's good ratings can be relied upon next year.  Unlike Pryor, who's good ratings last year turned out to be unsustainable.

Fair question

[stitches]

So what do you guys think? Do you feel OK going into next year with Raimann as the presumed starter? Or do you pursue another OT in FA and/or the draft? 

[smittywerb]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:23 PM, DougDew said:

 Whatever the PFF grade,  By most measures, Pryor failed at LT despite showing positive signs last year.

 

 

my thoughts exactly.  
 

we’ll wait and see.  

[Colt Overseas]

3 hours ago, stitches said:

So what do you guys think? Do you feel OK going into next year with Raimann as the presumed starter? Or do you pursue another OT in FA and/or the draft? 

I think if we are going into a full rebuild, we should go with him as the presumed starter. Use the year in transition to see if he is the future. I think he has shown enough that he has the potential to be the answer, so long as he makes some improvements (mainly with his anchor). Sign a vet OT as backup. 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

So what do you guys think? Do you feel OK going into next year with Raimann as the presumed starter? Or do you pursue another OT in FA and/or the draft? 

I think Ballard should draft at least 1 offensive linemen in every draft. Preferably a lineman that can play multiple positions. 

[John Waylon]

There’s been some scabs, but he’s showing potential. I can’t wait to see what he looks like with a full offseason in an NFL strength and conditioning program, and I definitely think bringing in a good vet that could mentor him wouldn’t hurt, either. 

[harrisoncolts88]

As I come out of hibernation and I make my yearly journey back to the forum to discuss draft stuff, I agree with letting Raimann continue to man the LT and keep growing. I personally feel that Center is the weak link on the line. I personally hate it for him, but I almost feel like since Kelly lost his baby, his play has not been there.

[ADnum1]

There are still questions about Raimann.

 

Keep in mind that even with the most serious strength and conditioning, your strength only improves 10% at the most (unless you're juicing).

 

So any strength and conditioning may still not be enough.

 

I would look for another LT in the second round next draft.

[Hoose]

Maybe we can close this discussion by all of us agreeing that Ballard made a good pick with Raimann, and that he appears to be a keeper. To me, that’s a bright spot in a mostly dismal year. 
Ballard has also made some terrible personnel decisions concerning the O-line, and will need to redeem himself this off-season by getting the team a new C and RG. 
He knows what he has to do; I’m looking forward to a positive, game changing off-season for our Colts. 

[rock8591]

7 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

There are still questions about Raimann.

 

Keep in mind that even with the most serious strength and conditioning, your strength only improves 10% at the most (unless you're juicing).

 

So any strength and conditioning may still not be enough.

 

I would look for another LT in the second round next draft.

 

He's already 6'6'' 303, only need to add a few pounds to 310 or so.

[sb41champs]

They finally stopped playing "musical chairs" on the offensive line and allowed Raimann to get very valuable game reps.

 

Now they need to fix the RG position - AND - find QUALITY offensive line backups - PLUS - a QUALITY offensive line coach (Jeff Saturday?) to help them back to the pinnacle of the NFL.

[IndyColtsFan411]

On 1/2/2023 at 8:25 PM, DougDew said:

Good Lord, my grandmother could have picked Raimann at 77 with Pryor being the only LT on the roster.

 

Ballard actually picked a not so great Woods one round before...in a deep TE class.  Raimann just happened to still be there. 

Say what???  Given the horrible OL play, the horrific QB play, when Woods was given reps, he produced.  He's going to be a good player for the Colts.

[richard pallo]

Does anyone know what Raimann’s grade was for the final game against Houston?  Very curious.

[Dark Superman]

He was solid for a rookie third round pick who showed improvement as the season went on. I'm glad they started him halfway through the season, all those snaps and experience is gonna help his growth so much heading into his second season. Either way, the Colts need to bring in actual competition for these guys to compete with and not hand guys like Pinter/Pryor starting jobs without them having to earn it first.

[Dobbinblitz]

On 1/3/2023 at 11:10 AM, richard pallo said:

Curious.  Do you know how the other OL graded out for the game?  

Overall Raimann was 71.0 second only to Braden Smith who was at 73.3 Raimann had Best pass blocking grade on the line against Houston at 78.2

Overall:

Nelson : 69.6

Fries :  67.3

Kelly : 64.2

 

[throwing BBZ]

8 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

He was solid for a rookie third round pick who showed improvement as the season went on. I'm glad they started him halfway through the season, all those snaps and experience is gonna help his growth so much heading into his second season. Either way, the Colts need to bring in actual competition for these guys to compete with and not hand guys like Pinter/Pryor starting jobs without them having to earn it first.

 

  Pinter and Pryor had EARNED THEIR JOBS through play on the field.

  Unfortunately Pryor Thought he could play at slob weight, and Mysteriously, Kelly and Smith played like dysfunctional, brainless louts around Pinter.

  It's history now. We need  NEW C, and RG. Fries has improved and is a worthy quality backup.

[Dark Superman]

5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Pinter and Pryor had EARNED THEIR JOBS through play on the field.

  Unfortunately Pryor Thought he could play at slob weight, and Mysteriously, Kelly and Smith played like dysfunctional, brainless louts around Pinter.

  It's history now. We need  NEW C, and RG. Fries has improved and is a worthy quality backup.

When did they earn their jobs on the field? They were basically handed the starting jobs straight from TC. Pinter played center in 2021 when Ryan Kelly was hurt and Ballard just decided to put him at guard without him proving himself at the position or bringing in legit competition. Pryor moved around the line when the Colts were going through injuries across the line in 2021, but he never showed me that he deserved to be handed to the starting LT spot. Ballard drafted Raimann in the third round knowing he was a rookie with one one year of experience in college at LT, because he played TE his first two years at Central Michigan.

[DougDew]

On 1/4/2023 at 2:26 PM, stitches said:

So what do you guys think? Do you feel OK going into next year with Raimann as the presumed starter? Or do you pursue another OT in FA and/or the draft? 

I think Raimann's late play looks like we don't need to find an immediate starter at LT.  He should be able to hold it down well enough to still evaluate him next year.

 

I think our best solution at RG is to slide Smith there and then draft a OT.  There have been several OTs that have played RT then wanted to flip to LT.  So if we can find one of those OTs, then he would also provide some insurance against Raimann failing.  Or Raimann can possibly be flipped to RT of the other guy balls out.

 

I think drafting an OT and a C fixes the oline, and it can be done in rounds 2 through 4, IMO.

 

Are there any FA Cs available?

[stitches]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think Raimann's late play looks like we don't need to find an immediate starter at LT.  He should be able to hold it down well enough to still evaluate him next year.

I think I agree. But if we love an OT prospect, I wouldn't be totally against drafting him. Or adding a swing tackle in FA. 

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think our best solution at RG is to slide Smith there and then draft a OT.  There have been several OTs that have played RT then wanted to flip to LT.  So if we can find one of those OTs, then he would also provide some insurance against Raimann failing.  Or Raimann can possibly be flipped to RT of the other guy balls out.

This is the thing I don't understand. WHY? Braden has played really well at RT. For multiple years now. Why should we put question mark on two positions by moving him to guard than just keep him at RT? The main problems of this line this year were RG and OC. And IMO it's much easier to find good interior linemen than good tackles. 

 

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think drafting an OT and a C fixes the oline, and it can be done in rounds 2 through 4, IMO.

 

Are there any FA Cs available?

I haven't checked the FA lists yet, but I imagine some will be available. I guess ideally Kelly would just return to form, but I haven't loved his trajectory last two years. I wouldn't mind us drafting a guard in the draft. 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is the thing I don't understand. WHY? Braden has played really well at RT. For multiple years now. Why should we put question mark on two positions by moving him to guard than just keep him at RT? The main problems of this line this year were RG and OC. And IMO it's much easier to find good interior linemen than good tackles. 

To make room for the RT we draft and possibly make room for Raimann if the new OT is a stud.   I don't see where there would be much question that Smith could play well at RG.  Usually the issue is a G sliding out to T because of measurables and athleticism, not the T sliding to G.  Smith isn't too tall to be a good RG, IMO.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

To make room for the RT we draft and possibly make room for Raimann if the new OT is a stud.   I don't see where there would be much question that Smith could play well at RG.  Usually the issue is a G sliding out to T because of measurables and athleticism, not the T sliding to G.  Smith isn't too tall to be a good RG, IMO.

But he's already really good at RT(the more valuable position and the harder position to find good players at)! Why would you take away a strength of that line and risk putting a player with zero experience there? When you draft a RT you pretty much hope and pray he becomes what Braden Smith is now. 

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, Dark Superman said:

When did they earn their jobs on the field? They were basically handed the starting jobs straight from TC. Pinter played center in 2021 when Ryan Kelly was hurt and Ballard just decided to put him at guard without him proving himself at the position or bringing in legit competition. Pryor moved around the line when the Colts were going through injuries across the line in 2021, but he never showed me that he deserved to be handed to the starting LT spot. Ballard drafted Raimann in the third round knowing he was a rookie with one one year of experience in college at LT, because he played TE his first two years at Central Michigan.

 

 Uh, Pryor didn't need to prove anything to you. Clearly he proved enough to his coaches and Ballard to get a nice contract. What is so hard about this?
 Same with Pinter. They had been working with him for a couple years and he did prove himself on the field. Fries BTW had earned some faith as a good backup prospect to play RG. I could see him being a pretty good starter for someone. He is coming along. The end.
 Ballard lucked into a 1st rd caliber LT in Raimann and that is proving out VERY WELL. 
 And OF COURSE You left out the signing of Kelly, who had proven himself in TN as a very capable LT.

[Dark Superman]

20 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Uh, Pryor didn't need to prove anything to you. Clearly he proved enough to his coaches and Ballard to get a nice contract. What is so hard about this?
 Same with Pinter. They had been working with him for a couple years and he did prove himself on the field. Fries BTW had earned some faith as a good backup prospect to play RG. I could see him being a pretty good starter for someone. He is coming along. The end.
 Ballard lucked into a 1st rd caliber LT in Raimann and that is proving out VERY WELL. 
 And OF COURSE You left out the signing of Kelly, who had proven himself in TN as a very capable LT.

What in the hell are you talking about? Ballard just said in his press conference that his initial feeling on guys like Pryor/Pinter being able to come in and play well solely because the Colts had three solid players in Nelson, Smith, and Kelly surrounding them. That's literally the reason why he rolled with them. Ballard failing to sign a proven LT/RG in free agency and waiting until the third round to take Raimann was the biggest mistake he could make. Labeling Raimann as a first round caliber player right now is silly. He literally started the year as a backup to Matt Pryor and the Colts wanted him to sit and learn behind Pryor to have him develop. That didn't happen because Matt Pryor might be the worst offensive linemen in the NFL. Raimann is a project and struggled heavily his first few weeks but having him out there during a already lost season is the best decision the Colts could have made. Let him gain as much experience as possible in 2022, and he showed quite abit of improvement as the second half the season went on, but he still has a long way to go. He literally has one year of college experience at LT. And now one in the NFL. Either way, you gotta bring in legit competition for him in 2023. But I hope he continues to grow into a solid LT. Pinter is too small to play guard and should be competing for the starting C spot in 2023. Will Fries showed growth, but I still think you draft or sign someone to upgrade the position and keep Fries as a backup. Dennis Kelly played in how many games at LT? He's gonna be 33 in a couple of days and he was basically an emergency guy since the other guys looked terrible or were injured.

[NorthernColt]

Hearing Ballard talk about Raimann, I'd say its likely hes the Lt next year. I like it. Really came on strong. Will add weight n strength this offseason and be even better.

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, NorthernColt said:

Hearing Ballard talk about Raimann, I'd say its likely hes the Lt next year. I like it. Really came on strong. Will add weight n strength this offseason and be even better.

That’s what Ballard said.  I think he’s the projected starter.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

But he's already really good at RT(the more valuable position and the harder position to find good players at)! Why would you take away a strength of that line and risk putting a player with zero experience there? When you draft a RT you pretty much hope and pray he becomes what Braden Smith is now. 

I think leaving Smith at RT is fine too. 

 

 I was looking at it from the standpoint that if you draft a RG to fill the hole there, then you are now committing to Raimann at LT.  If you are unsure about Raimann, and a stud OT is there at pick 35, then picking him makes you have to create a spot for both he and Raimann should Raimann work out    So the only option is to move Smith to G.

 

If you have confidence in BR right now, then commit to him and draft the RG.   Are you ready to commit to him?  You have until May to figure it out.

 

Are you going to use pick 35 on a G...when we could get a EDGE or a Corner?  If we wait until pick 79 (WAS), is there a guarantee he will be better than Fries.   Smith almost assuredly is better than Fries.

 

BTW, I don't think Smith has ever been considered pro bowl or all pro-so I'm not that sold on him not being upgradeable at RT.

[KB]

Raimann did well in the later half of the season, and showed growth. He should still have to earn the job in camp. Along with whoever is at RG, and every other spot. That's one thing Ballard preached early in his tenure and then totally went away from last season. There should he competition across the whole roster. Just giving someone the start is lazy and will cause complacency in play. The competition they have in camp will make them work harder for the spot or show they don't have what it takes to start.

[stitches]

 

 

Look at that graph. Both Braden Smith and Bernhard Raimann with very good seasons in pass protection. The further to the left the harder the assignments those players got(not sure how exactly they calculate it, but I assume it includes opponent and/or getting help from scheming/TE or RB chips, etc... 

 

Seems like our offense does no favors to the tackles and both of them are among the players with hardest assignments. 

[BProland85]

4 hours ago, richard pallo said:

That’s what Ballard said.  I think he’s the projected starter.

He should be. QB is a much bigger need than LT at this point. Raimann was probably one of the better players on the OL towards the end of the season. 

[EastStreet]

On 1/3/2023 at 3:14 AM, stitches said:

Not 100% certain but I think he had some truly horrific grades at LT the previous years with the Eagles. Again in limited snaps -simply because noone would let him play that position so badly for that long. The bigger point is - it was indeed very limited. I think he only played like 1 game and a half for us at LT last year. That was why I was much more willing to put more weight on all the previous evidence from playing all over the line that he's not as good as that grade at LT was. There is no reason why a great LT would struggle so much at every other position he's played AND at LT in previous attempts to play the position. And it turned out with more chances to play he was indeed horrible all around the line. 

 

Most OLs are not interchangeable (positions, and sides). Some can, but most can't. And it takes time for chemistry at any position. And there's a reason why different skillsets are required at T and G, and C too. Not suggesting Pryor is great or even good (at any position). But he played decent, against great DEs when at LT, and didn't much time to settle in. And played horrible when he switched to the right side, and inside. And Raimann played awful early at LT, and it took time before he settled in. 

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

 

 

Look at that graph. Both Braden Smith and Bernhard Raimann with very good seasons in pass protection. The further to the left the harder the assignments those players got(not sure how exactly they calculate it, but I assume it includes opponent and/or getting help from scheming/TE or RB chips, etc... 

 

Seems like our offense does no favors to the tackles and both of them are among the players with hardest assignments. 

Yeah the problem wasn’t the tackle spots.  Yes they got beat a few times but that will happen to ALL linemen at times.  Add into that the Colts were much better at running the ball to the outside as well the Colts have their tackles.

 

Where they need help is the middle.  They have big decision to make on Kelly.  Nelson is coming back and sounds like he knows he needs to be better.  He’s earned the chance to show he can bounce back.  I do think they need another RG.  Ironically I’d be looking for someone like Glow.  Not a big name on another team but pretty good.  
 

The Colts do need some depth.  Fries and Pinter are good inside depth.  They need another swing tackle but that can be found in the draft, especially if you are looking for depth mostly.  Also, a young rookie could be used to “compete” with Raimann rather than just handing him the job even though it would be Raimann’s job to lose.