Kenny Moore absent from OTAs, wants new contract

[ProblChld32]

23 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

This is the business. He's a good player, just made his first Pro Bowl (which earned him an extra $300k over the next two years), likely at the peak of his powers. There's no more guaranteed money on his contract. He'll be 27 at the start of the season, 29 when his contract expires. This represents a good chance for him to lock up more money and maximize his earning potential. As a UDFA, he was able to sign his new deal a year early, so now only five years into his career he has a rare chance for a third contract while his 30s are still a little ways away. He's the 24th highest paid corner in the NFL, making about 40% of what the highest paid corners make, and he's the 2nd highest paid on the roster now that Gilmore is here. He also might be uncertain about his future in the new defense, and wants to lock up more money/guarantees before that uncertainty costs him some standing.

 

I agree that he wasn't great last season, especially at the end of the year. But his reasoning is obvious, and I think the team knows better than to say 'Kenny, get back to work, we're not going to extend you or give you more money, plus you kind of let us down last season.' 

 

Also, his 'holdout' is kind of as peaceful and reasonable as it could be. It's like 'hey, I would like to be taken seriously, but I don't want to rock the boat too much.' Hopefully it gets resolved without too much trouble, but it's possible they just move some money around. They could give him some more guaranteed money in 2022 and bring his cap hit down, without extending him. I kind of thought they should restructure him anyway, he seemed like an obvious candidate to create some cap space.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but when he received his last big pay day wasn’t he one of the top paid Slot CBs in the league? 

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but when he received his last big pay day wasn’t he one of the top paid Slot CBs in the league? 

You’re correct and @Supermanknows this. 

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why can't these players realize we have a loaded team now. I hope Ty see's that too. Win that ring and you have 100's of avenues. Kenny Moore just needs to play in 2022. I have to say I am disappointed in him right now because I look at him as a leader and he is good. He is being paid well. My gas tank is waiting 

What makes you think Kenny Moore is not going to play in 2022.    We are a long, Long, LONG way from reaching that point.   And odds are high we will never reach that point.   
 

No one is freaking out here except you and other fans.    Everything will likely work itself out.   

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Like I said, the whole thing just seams strange to me.

 

Well, the other 3 CBs on that PB roster make $17-20M AAV. So I understand why he sees it as a slight.

 

But this is sort of feels like Ryan Kelly trying to get a contract like Trent Williams.

 

Moore's AAV was $8M though when he signed, so I am curious to know what range he thinks would be acceptable.

 

Is it $10-12M? More? 

 

I don't know many slot CBs that are even making $10-12M AAV. Not talking about the outside CBs that can move inside and play slot too (like Marlon Humphrey)...I am talking about pure slot CBs.

 

Guys like Mike Hilton and Troy Hill make less than Moore. Taron Johnson just got $8M AAV and Chris Harris gets $8.5M, which are similar to what Moore got.

 

Those are guys that are typically on the list of top slot CBs, along with Moore.

 

Mathieu did make $10-12M in KC, but he was also an AP player. Now he gets $9.5M AAV. I don't think Moore is on that level.

[Moosejawcolt]

17 minutes ago, #12. said:

Too bad he didn't hold out for the Raiders game.  

He did and the Jags game as well...lol. He suited up for both and I believe I saw him on the field but I would not describe him as actually putting forth a concerted effort.

[Superman]

18 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but when he received his last big pay day wasn’t he one of the top paid Slot CBs in the league? 

 

Yes.

[tweezy32]

Guaranteed he doesn’t hold out. He doesn’t make that much money to be able to hold out. He’s lose too much money to hold out. He’s not a wr or qb that makes 20M+ a year that can afford to hold out on a couple mill..

[CanuckColt]

Meh. This sounds a lot like agent-talk.

Time to train a new slot corner and see if he gets more elsewhere.

 

[sb41champs]

Kenny Moore II signed an extension just two years ago. 

 

While he has "upped his game" significantly during the past two years - I don't believe the Colts will give him a new contract - UNLESS - it will help the team as a whole.

[csmopar]

17 hours ago, Colt.45 said:

Your military story is legit. You have lived a strong experience. However, it aint got diddly to do with this. What you got or didnt get is not germane to the issue at hand. Stop arguing about what gas prices were in 1981, that's got nothing to do with the price of feed in 2022 lol. Yeah, you're wondering what kinda statement that is right? Well, that's what your point is like. Your life experiences are valid and honored but aint got anything to do with this situation.

 

thanks for your service. And if you want to change the situation, you should stop watching the NFL and i promise you, that will change it FAST when enough folks do that. Not willing to do so? Well, the news aint good. The NFL will continue to pay more and more to players. When is enough going to be enough? Well, i just answered that. It'll stop when you and i and EastStreet and everyone else says screw this and go do something else with our time. Till then, this is what it is. You are part of that whether you like it or not. And the more you support the league, the bigger the rock will grow. 

My point was, you can’t whine or pout about a contract YOU agreed to sign. 
 

 

but yeah, the rest I agree.

 

 

oh and while I appreciate it, please don’t thank me. I’ve done little. Thank those in Arlington and other cemeteries around the country. They deserve thanks, not me. They gave their lives for freedom and Liberty and paid the ultimate sacrifice. 

[csmopar]

16 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

So if you sign a contract with any job saying you’ll be paid X amount of money, then you shouldn’t be able to ask for a raise ever? 
 

What if you find out you’re being underpaid?

What if you take on more responsibility?

What if you mentor others? 
what if you over-perform? 
 

Nah. No reason to ask or demand more money for any reason, ever. 

When it’s time for your contact to renew, sure, not half way thru it, not after you’ve performed worse than you did when you signed it.

[shasta519]

52 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Meh. This sounds a lot like agent-talk.

Time to train a new slot corner and see if he gets more elsewhere.

 

 

I think the agent probably told the local media, but Kenny "don't call me a slot CB no" Moore has been talking about disrespect for the past couple of season. So this isn't very surprising.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I think the agent probably told the local media, but Kenny "don't call me a slot CB no" Moore has been talking about disrespect for the past couple of season. So this isn't very surprising.

 

 

Most agents are toxic IMO. They are just in it for the money. The more they get for the player they are representing, the more they make. They don't look at the whole picture and how a player that may make 1 or 2 mill a year in a certain place can become miserable and be average on a bad team. In the long run that player loses money. I still go back to Alvin Harper when he left Dallas to go to Tampa. Yeah he made a couple more Mill a year at the time but had he stayed in Dallas he would've made more in the long run and even won another SB. His endorsements would have been better as well playing in Dallas.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[shasta519]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Most agents are toxic IMO. They are just in it for the money. The more they get for the player they are representing, the more they make. They don't look at the whole picture and how a player that may make 1 or 2 mill a year in a certain place can become miserable and be average on a bad team. In the long run that player loses money. I still go back to Alvin Harper when he left Dallas to go to Tampa. Yeah he made a couple more Mill a year at the time but had he stayed in Dallas he would've made more in the long run and even won another SB. His endorsements would have been better as well playing in Dallas.

 

Well somebody has to play on those bad teams. That's just a decision a player has to make. But plenty of them are happy to take more money to play on a bad team, especially if they get to be the guy at that position. Not only do they get more money and more opportunity, but they also get to help turn a team around.

 

In the case of Harper, he was getting out from under Irvin's shadow (as well as Smith and Novacek). And just looking at the numbers at the time, it seems like he got far more money to play in Tampa than DAL would give him. And it was probably a good move because much of that TB contract was gtd and he ended up getting hurt anyways. If he had gotten hurt in DAL, he would have gotten a fraction of the money.

 

But I don't really see most agents as toxic. These players need somebody advocating for them and looking out for their interests, as well as someone to navigate the complexities of contract negotiations and contract language. Agents can do all of that and more. I bet if you asked players, most would say they are more than worth the 4-15% they give them. 

 

You should see how hard some of these low-level agents work, especially the ones that represent college players who are just trying to get drafted. It's a serious grind. 

[Indyfan4life]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

When it’s time for your contact to renew, sure, not half way thru it, not after you’ve performed worse than you did when you signed it.

You mean when forced to not play slot corner and every QB having 10 seconds to throw the ball against him? Nah. Not going to let you do mental gymnastics to justify your anger because of something YOU experienced. This is a you problem.

[John Waylon]

I think the reason most fans don’t like it is because Ballard already did him a real solid when he, quite literally, ripped up Kenny’s contract that he came here on to compensate him fairly. And it was a very good deal for him at the time. 
 

He’s only halfway through it, and he’s wanting another one. The Nelson deal is driving the car right now. It just is. Whatever it ends up looking like is going to dictate how we have to spend the remaining money. 
 

I don’t think it’s out of line to ask Kenny to wait until after this season is over and Nelson’s deal is out of the way to revisit it. Ballard took care of him once already, and I have nothing but confidence that he would again. The timing just isn’t great. Ballard gave him the new deal 2 years ago, as the pay scale continues to morph through the years are we just gonna be in this situation again in 2 years?

 

We have to start figuring out how to keep the nucleus of Ballard players now, and managing the cap is about to become a bigger part of Ballard’s job than it has been to this point. 
 

No one can sit here and tell me that if they lock Nelson up long-term after this season that Kenny (going into a contract year of his own,) isn’t going to be a top priority for Ballard. Sometimes you just have for things to break. 

[Boondoggle]

I don't think it's a big deal if the Colts are willing to recognize that he's outplayed his contract and restructure him.  But there is a precedent issue here, where once you start to redo contracts the moment a player outplays what he's being paid you can cause future issues for yourself.

 

Also what hurts Kenny is being a slot defender.  He's a top one.  But he's still a slot dude.  That is the position you put guys who are athletically and size limited who otherwise can't play outside the hash but are good cover options.  Which means there's a lot of them, compared to the outside hash types.  So this is a supply and demand thing too.

[BlackTiger]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:42 PM, masterlock said:

A contract is a contract

Both sides can break out of them in the nfl pretty easily too.  The player can retire and the team can cut him

 

Im not sure what they say about hold outs exactly 

[NFLfan]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

When it’s time for your contact to renew, sure, not half way thru it, not after you’ve performed worse than you did when you signed it.

 

You must be equally as vocal when teams don't honor contracts and cut players before the contract ends. Right? 

[AKB]

I'm not gonna sit and here and pretend like Kenny Moore isn't an important piece to this defense. However, when you sign a contract play through the contract. It's not like it's the last year of his contract, he barely just signed it. Dude should've signed a shorter term deal if he wanted to reup back to back. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

What makes you think Kenny Moore is not going to play in 2022.    We are a long, Long, LONG way from reaching that point.   And odds are high we will never reach that point.   
 

No one is freaking out here except you and other fans.    Everything will likely work itself out.   

I think he will play but he still has 2 years left on his deal and he isn't a player we will cut either, he will get every cent to the contract he agreed too. I am not freaking out at all, I think Moore is the one freaking out over diddly poo. Whining about a contract he agreed too when his contract isn't even up for 2 years. Last thing we need is distractions, we have a good team and we don't need our best players complaining. Maybe Houston will pay him more, go play in that pit hole and tell me how happy he would be - my point of the day is, appreciate what you have because things could be a lot worse in life. Moore has the best of both world's. He plays for a team that will win a lot of games which makes the game fun and he is getting paid a lot of money to be a slot corner. Good player but he isn't Gilmore for example.

[2006Coltsbestever]

- here is me in life with the ladies and I just make enough money to survive. If gas prices keep going up, I will just jog to work. I need to lose weight anyway  . Homer has some moves I have to admit 

[NewColtsFan]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think he will play but he still has 2 years left on his deal and he isn't a player we will cut either, he will get every cent to the contract he agreed too. I am not freaking out at all, I think Moore is the one freaking out over diddly poo. Whining about a contract he agreed too when his contract isn't even up for 2 years. Last thing we need is distractions, we have a good team and we don't need our best players complaining. Maybe Houston will pay him more, go play in that pit hole and tell me how happy he would be - my point of the day is, appreciate what you have because things could be a lot worse in life. Moore has the best of both world's. He plays for a team that will win a lot of games which makes the game fun and he is getting paid a lot of money to be a slot corner. Good player but he isn't Gilmore for example.

This is IMHO one of the WORST stretches of posts you’ve ever made in the 10 years I’ve been here.  I doubt you have any idea what you’ve even posted in this discussion.   
 

You’re not freaking out?   Riiiight. 
 

Kenny Moore, who is IN CAMP and WORKING WITH THE COACHES and is only not practicing which he is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO DO in an OTA, oh HE is the one freaking out according to you.    Riiiight. 
 

If I didn’t know better I’d say your account has been hacked by someone insane.  SMDH!

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

This is IMHO one of the WORST stretches of posts you’ve ever made in the 10 years I’ve been here.  I doubt you have any idea what you’ve even posted in this discussion.   
 

You’re not freaking out?   Riiiight. 
 

Kenny Moore, who is IN CAMP and WORKING WITH THE COACHES and is only not practicing which he is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO DO in an OTA, oh HE is the one freaking out according to you.    Riiiight. 
 

If I didn’t know better I’d say your account has been hacked by someone insane.  SMDH!

 

 

Kenny Moore is the one complaining about his contract. It is all over the internet. It is not like I am making this up. Everyone knows this. How are my posts bad? I already even said he will play. I think you are misunderstanding my stance here. He makes 33 Mill over 4 years, why even complain at all is my point. I just don't want this to be a distraction. He is a good player as I have stated. Why even mention a contract problem? He was the last person I thought that would even complain about something like that. 

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Well, the other 3 CBs on that PB roster make $17-20M AAV. So I understand why he sees it as a slight.

 

But this is sort of feels like Ryan Kelly trying to get a contract like Trent Williams.

 

Moore's AAV was $8M though when he signed, so I am curious to know what range he thinks would be acceptable.

 

Is it $10-12M? More? 

 

I don't know many slot CBs that are even making $10-12M AAV. Not talking about the outside CBs that can move inside and play slot too (like Marlon Humphrey)...I am talking about pure slot CBs.

 

Guys like Mike Hilton and Troy Hill make less than Moore. Taron Johnson just got $8M AAV and Chris Harris gets $8.5M, which are similar to what Moore got.

 

Those are guys that are typically on the list of top slot CBs, along with Moore.

 

Mathieu did make $10-12M in KC, but he was also an AP player. Now he gets $9.5M AAV. I don't think Moore is on that level.

Yup. He simply doesn't compare to that top tier group. And really shouldn't have been a PBer last season. We had several players on the PB list that really shouldn't have been named. Odd year. Odd situation (2 years left). 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

This is IMHO one of the WORST stretches of posts you’ve ever made in the 10 years I’ve been here.  I doubt you have any idea what you’ve even posted in this discussion.   
 

You’re not freaking out?   Riiiight. 
 

Kenny Moore, who is IN CAMP and WORKING WITH THE COACHES and is only not practicing which he is LEGALLY ALLOWED TO DO in an OTA, oh HE is the one freaking out according to you.    Riiiight. 
 

If I didn’t know better I’d say your account has been hacked by someone insane.  SMDH!

 

 

I am human after all. I just love our team.

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. He simply doesn't compare to that top tier group. And really shouldn't have been a PBer last season. We had several players on the PB list that really shouldn't have been named. Odd year. Odd situation (2 years left). 

 

 

Yep. Kelly didn’t have a PB season. Moore didn’t either. Q was questionable because he missed 4 games and wasn’t his usual self, but the elite guys often make it. 

I think some of it had to do with Hard Knocks and media hype. 

 

They had so much hype and then fell flat the last two games. It was simply amazing. And that is coming from a Cubs fan, who is used to seeing that happen.

 

But with Wentz being a convenient scapegoat for how the team played late last year, the hype machine is back.

 

 

 

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. He simply doesn't compare to that top tier group. And really shouldn't have been a PBer last season. We had several players on the PB list that really shouldn't have been named. Odd year. Odd situation (2 years left). 

 

 

This YT video is a pretty good example of perception/hype vs. reality:

 

 

I believe this is after PB nods had been announced…and Jonathan Vilma (I think that is who it is) is just hyping the Moore/Renfrow matchup all game, which wasn’t even a matchup. 

 

 

[masterlock]

13 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

Both sides can break out of them in the nfl pretty easily too.  The player can retire and the team can cut him

 

Im not sure what they say about hold outs exactly 

A player who retires forfeits the remainder of his salary. A team who cuts a player under contract must pay any remaining compensation (specified by the contract). Hence the term 'dead money'. NFL contracts contain clauses for hold-outs. 

 

Moore signed a fair contract AT THE TIME. If he wanted more money, then he could've held out for more money. If he overperforms, then he's disappointed he didn't ask for more. Conversely, if he underperforms, then the Colts are disappointed they didn't pay LESS. There's always risk.

[Nickster]

21 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

Well, the other 3 CBs on that PB roster make $17-20M AAV. So I understand why he sees it as a slight.

 

But this is sort of feels like Ryan Kelly trying to get a contract like Trent Williams.

 

Moore's AAV was $8M though when he signed, so I am curious to know what range he thinks would be acceptable.

 

Is it $10-12M? More? 

 

I don't know many slot CBs that are even making $10-12M AAV. Not talking about the outside CBs that can move inside and play slot too (like Marlon Humphrey)...I am talking about pure slot CBs.

 

Guys like Mike Hilton and Troy Hill make less than Moore. Taron Johnson just got $8M AAV and Chris Harris gets $8.5M, which are similar to what Moore got.

 

Those are guys that are typically on the list of top slot CBs, along with Moore.

 

Mathieu did make $10-12M in KC, but he was also an AP player. Now he gets $9.5M AAV. I don't think Moore is on that level.

Slot corner and outside corner are two different positions with about 100% value difference.  
If Moore thinks he’s worth outside money he’s friggin delusional.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

Yep. Kelly didn’t have a PB season. Moore didn’t either. Q was questionable because he missed 4 games and wasn’t his usual self, but the elite guys often make it. 

I think some of it had to do with Hard Knocks and media hype. 

 

They had so much hype and then fell flat the last two games. It was simply amazing. And that is coming from a Cubs fan, who is used to seeing that happen.

 

But with Wentz being a convenient scapegoat for how the team played late last year, the hype machine is back.

 

Yup. Kelly, Nelson, and Moore... none had a great year, let alone PB. 

 

When they released the final fan vote for the PB, only Taylor (he was #1 in the NFL) made the top 40 in fan PB votes for the Colts. Fan votes are 1/3 of the mix, with a third coming from coaches, and the last third from players. I don't believe they publish the players and coaches votes. IIRC, we had a lot of alternates too in addition to the 7 PBers.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, shasta519 said:

This YT video is a pretty good example of perception/hype vs. reality:

 

 

I believe this is after PB nods had been announced…and Jonathan Vilma (I think that is who it is) is just hyping the Moore/Renfrow matchup all game, which wasn’t even a matchup. 

 

 

 

Kenny had a few wins, but Renfrow easily got the better of Kenny. 

But like I said earlier, it wasn't just the last two games either. Had some bad games early and mid season too. 

He put a decent group of games together after mid season though. But overall, just an up and down year. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

Slot corner and outside corner are two different positions with about 100% value difference.  
If Moore thinks he’s worth outside money he’s friggin delusional.

He can deserve more without getting to outside money level.    The explosion in corner money has widened the gap between what KM makes and what he feels is fair.   

[csmopar]

17 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

You must be equally as vocal when teams don't honor contracts and cut players before the contract ends. Right? 

Nope. Because again, it’s usually due to the player not performing to the standards that got them the contract in the first place. No different than my boss firing me even though I’m under contract if I’m not providing the results expected for said contract.

[csmopar]

20 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

You mean when forced to not play slot corner and every QB having 10 seconds to throw the ball against him? Nah. Not going to let you do mental gymnastics to justify your anger because of something YOU experienced. This is a you problem.

No. Not at all. Moore was made the highest paid slot corner at the time he signed. Not my fault he’s not happy with that and wants more. That’s entirely on him

[NewColtsFan]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am human after all. I just love our team.

As holdouts go, this is mild.   Moore is IN Camp.   He’s working with the coaches.   The only thing he’s not doing is practicing, which he is legally allowed to do because thus OTA is voluntary.   The team is NOT complaining. People here are making way too big a deal of this for right now. 
 

This may change as the off-season schedule continues.  Maybe this doesn’t get resolved? Maybe KM starts missing practice that he’s not allowed and we have an official holdout?   I don’t see that happening, but I suppose it’s possible.  But there will plenty of opportunity to be upset then.   For right now, there’s no need to be this upset.   In all likelihood this gets worked out.    But if it doesn’t, THEN we can all be disappointed and angry. 
 

Fair enough?

 

PS….   A response to your PM is coming!   

[Moosejawcolt]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. He simply doesn't compare to that top tier group. And really shouldn't have been a PBer last season. We had several players on the PB list that really shouldn't have been named. Odd year. Odd situation (2 years left). 

 

 

Trade him if he doesn't want come to camp. 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Trade him if he doesn't want come to camp. 

 

I posted early that right now, it's not a big deal. And it's not. Just depends on what is important to him. We really don't know what the actual "ask", or concern, is. Guessing we'll find out a lot in the next 3 weeks leading up to mandatory camp. 

 

If he's primarily concerned with the lack of guarantees over the next two years, I think there's an easy compromise or fix. If however, he think he should be making top 5 CB money, then I'd give him permission to seek a trade. He's not in that company IMO, and perhaps would benefit with a reality check. 

[JediXMan]

Deals like this is why players want to get paid fairly. Imagine getting this contract only averaging 27 yards per game lol.