Kenny Moore absent from OTAs, wants new contract

[Superman]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2022/05/25/colts-pro-bowl-cb-kenny-moore-unhappy-contract-not-attending-otas/9927015002/

 

 

I believe this is the first contract related absence in the Ballard era. 

[stitches]

(copy from other thread)

 

Moore started believing his hype way too much if that's true. He was one of the main reasons (defensively) for those two disastrous games at the end of the season and now he has the gall to demand more money after he just signed his contract last year? Are you serious? If he wants more, how much should Hunter Renfrow who made him look like an amateur get? How much should the Jags' scrubs that put 170 yards against him in coverage get? Get your * to practice and show what you deserve, because that last season wasn't it... 

 

[chad72]

It is his prerogative but I feel KM has lost a step and has taken a step backwards, not the best case you can make on the heels of last year. 

 

His PFF rating was close to 75 in 2019 and 2020 while it was 66 in 2021. 

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kenny-moore/51596?season=2021

 

[Superman]

More info, he's present, but working individually.

 

 

[jbaron04]

8 minutes ago, stitches said:

(copy from other thread)

 

Moore started believing his hype way too much if that's true. He was one of the main reasons (defensively) for those two disastrous games at the end of the season and now he has the gall to demand more money after he just signed his contract last year? Are you serious? If he wants more, how much should Hunter Renfrow who made him look like an amateur get? How much should the Jags' scrubs that put 170 yards against him in coverage get? Get your * to practice and show what you deserve, because that last season wasn't it... 

 

Kenny had a down year for sure , and I don’t want to hear about him making the probowl please , 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

More info, he's present, but working individually.

 

 

 

So his answer to Irsay's question of the off-season is - no. 

[jbaron04]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It is his prerogative but I feel KM has lost a step and has taken a step backwards, not the best case you can make on the heels of last year. 

 

His PFF rating was close to 75 in 2019 and 2020 while it was 66 in 2021. 

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kenny-moore/51596?season=2021

 

He gave up the most reception in the league last year lol 

[lollygagger8]

[masterlock]

A contract is a contract.

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

(copy from other thread)

 

Moore started believing his hype way too much if that's true. He was one of the main reasons (defensively) for those two disastrous games at the end of the season and now he has the gall to demand more money after he just signed his contract last year? Are you serious? If he wants more, how much should Hunter Renfrow who made him look like an amateur get? How much should the Jags' scrubs that put 170 yards against him in coverage get? Get your * to practice and show what you deserve, because that last season wasn't it... 

 

 

4 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It is his prerogative but I feel KM has lost a step and has taken a step backwards, not the best case you can make on the heels of last year. 

 

His PFF rating was close to 75 in 2019 and 2020 while it was 66 in 2021. 

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kenny-moore/51596?season=2021

 

 

This is the business. He's a good player, just made his first Pro Bowl (which earned him an extra $300k over the next two years), likely at the peak of his powers. There's no more guaranteed money on his contract. He'll be 27 at the start of the season, 29 when his contract expires. This represents a good chance for him to lock up more money and maximize his earning potential. As a UDFA, he was able to sign his new deal a year early, so now only five years into his career he has a rare chance for a third contract while his 30s are still a little ways away. He's the 24th highest paid corner in the NFL, making about 40% of what the highest paid corners make, and he's the 2nd highest paid on the roster now that Gilmore is here. He also might be uncertain about his future in the new defense, and wants to lock up more money/guarantees before that uncertainty costs him some standing.

 

I agree that he wasn't great last season, especially at the end of the year. But his reasoning is obvious, and I think the team knows better than to say 'Kenny, get back to work, we're not going to extend you or give you more money, plus you kind of let us down last season.' 

 

Also, his 'holdout' is kind of as peaceful and reasonable as it could be. It's like 'hey, I would like to be taken seriously, but I don't want to rock the boat too much.' Hopefully it gets resolved without too much trouble, but it's possible they just move some money around. They could give him some more guaranteed money in 2022 and bring his cap hit down, without extending him. I kind of thought they should restructure him anyway, he seemed like an obvious candidate to create some cap space.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Yeah I was going to say restructuring it and giving him more guaranteed money may actually help the cap hit.  

Reich will talk here soon so we will see if he addresses it.

[LiveAndLetAddai]

  Let's hope a reasonable outcome is in the cards.  Too many positives leading into the season to let this fester.

[Superman]

 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

This is the business. He's a good player, just made his first Pro Bowl (which earned him an extra $300k over the next two years), likely at the peak of his powers. There's no more guaranteed money on his contract. He'll be 27 at the start of the season, 29 when his contract expires. This represents a good chance for him to lock up more money and maximize his earning potential. As a UDFA, he was able to sign his new deal a year early, so now only five years into his career he has a rare chance for a third contract while his 30s are still a little ways away. He's the 24th highest paid corner in the NFL, making about 40% of what the highest paid corners make, and he's the 2nd highest paid on the roster now that Gilmore is here. He also might be uncertain about his future in the new defense, and wants to lock up more money/guarantees before that uncertainty costs him some standing.

24th highest paid corner... There are at least 30 corners I would rather have than him. Sounds reasonable pay. Especially when we gave him that contract at a time he had proven very little in the league.  

 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree that he wasn't great last season, especially at the end of the year. But his reasoning is obvious, and I think the team knows better than to say 'Kenny, get back to work, we're not going to extend you or give you more money, plus you kind of let us down last season.' 

Maybe they actually should tell him that? Honestly... 

 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

Also, his 'holdout' is kind of as peaceful and reasonable as it could be. It's like 'hey, I would like to be taken seriously, but I don't want to rock the boat too much.' Hopefully it gets resolved without too much trouble, but it's possible they just move some money around. They could give him some more guaranteed money in 2022 and bring his cap hit down, without extending him. I kind of thought they should restructure him anyway, he seemed like an obvious candidate to create some cap space.

He's still rocking the boat. But that's not the main reason I'm miffed. It's because he didn't play well last year... and he still wants more money. If he'd played like a top 20 corner, I'd be good with us giving him extension and more money. But what do we win by that? Lets say he has another year where he gets beat all the time and crumbles in the most important games. But now he's on the books for 12-15m a year over the next X years? What then? 

[Superman]

Colts fans aren't used to this kind of stuff. It's not often we have players outperforming their contracts. It's hard to remember any contract standoffs over the last decade that aren't related to rookie contract guarantees or offset language. 

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So the 15th best corner for the duration of his previous contract. Now do the same for last year. Because he's certainly not anywhere close to top 15 last year. Maybe top 50.... 

[#12.]

Who was worse during the final two game debacle, Wentz or Kenny?  Honestly.

 

Imagine if Wentz were back and were holding out for more money.  lol 

[Superman]

Just now, stitches said:

24th highest paid corner... There are at least 30 corners I would rather have than him. Sounds reasonable pay. Especially when we gave him that contract at a time he had proven very little in the league.  

 

Maybe they actually should tell him that? Honestly... 

 

He's still rocking the boat. But that's not the main reason I'm miffed. It's because he didn't play well last year... and he still wants more money. If he'd played like a top 20 corner, I'd be good with us giving him extension and more money. But what do we win by that? Lets say he has another year where he gets beat all the time and crumbles in the most important games. But now he's on the books for 12-15m a year over the next X years? What then? 

 

Again, this is the business, and it's one part that the Colts haven't been affected by in many years. 

 

I think the bolded is pretty ridiculous. The Colts didn't "give" him a contract, he earned his contract, and was paid accordingly. And if the Colts don't value him enough to consider meeting whatever his new salary demands are -- and we don't know what they are, or whether they're reasonable, or how far off the two sides are; we really don't know much about the nature of the disagreement at this point -- then they have some decisions to make. But the NFL is a league where plays have very little leverage, and are encouraged to exercise that leverage when they have it. Get used to it. But acting like the Colts have done him a favor by paying him is too far on the pro-team end of the spectrum for me.

 

I agree, he didn't have a great season last year. It's still his best opportunity to maximize his earning potential. And that's the entire reason he's taking this route. It's understandable. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This will probably get worked out.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

33 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It is his prerogative but I feel KM has lost a step and has taken a step backwards, not the best case you can make on the heels of last year. 

 

His PFF rating was close to 75 in 2019 and 2020 while it was 66 in 2021. 

 

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/kenny-moore/51596?season=2021

 

“Hey Chris. This is Kenny. I want a new contract!”

”Sure buddy, here you go!”

”But wait, what!? It is less than the current one!?”

”Sure buddy. I aligned it with your latest PFF rating! Enjoy!”

 

[stitches]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Again, this is the business, and it's one part that the Colts haven't been affected by in many years. 

 

I think the bolded is pretty ridiculous. The Colts didn't "give" him a contract, he earned his contract, and was paid accordingly. And if the Colts don't value him enough to consider meeting whatever his new salary demands are -- and we don't know what they are, or whether they're reasonable, or how far off the two sides are; we really don't know much about the nature of the disagreement at this point -- then they have some decisions to make. But the NFL is a league where plays have very little leverage, and are encouraged to exercise that leverage when they have it. Get used to it. But acting like the Colts have done him a favor by paying him is too far on the pro-team end of the spectrum for me.

Yes, he earned that contract and the Colts gave it go him. I have no problem with his current contract. And he is still UNDER THAT CONTRACT!! For TWO MORE YEARS! So how about he gets on the field and practice with his teammates as if he's actually being paid by the Colts and as if it's actually HIS SIGNATURE under that contract. 

 

Just now, Superman said:

 

I agree, he didn't have a great season last year. It's still his best opportunity to maximize his earning potential. And that's the entire reason he's taking this route. It's understandable. 

His best opportunity to maximize his earning potential is to get his * on the practice field and have a good season. If he had played well, I bet Ballard wouldn't mind giving him an extension and a good contract he would be happy with. But what he wants is something entirely different - he wants to play like % and still get paid. Well, no.... I'd be good with the Colts just telling him - no, prove it. Unless that whole accountability thing was just for show and Wentz was indeed the only scapegoat who deserved any beef for what this team did last year. 

[JediXMan]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This will probably get worked out.

If it’s reasonable for both sides.

[Hoosier Kriegs]

He is under contract that both he and the colts agreed on.  

 

Why should it matter if he has outperformed his contract?  If he underperformed, would he be asking for less money than his contract stipulates?  lol

 

If he wanted to bet on himself with a prove it contract, then he should have just signed a 1 year contract.  He didn't.

 

Time for him to shut up and play for his next contract.

[shasta519]

He was a PBer, but he also played really bad the end of last season.

 

Interested to see where this goes.

[NewColtsFan]

Quite honestly this is what I’ve been expecting from Nelson.   The fact that he’s been in camp working out I view as a good sign that the two sides are working on a new deal for Q. 
 

As for Moore….   At the moment this is a soft holdout.   But cornerback salaries have exploded these last two years, even for zone corners.    So this is not that big a surprise.  

[luv_pony_express]

So disappointing.  Maybe the last Colt I’d have expected this from.

 

One thing I hate about pro sports is that contracts just don’t seem to be honored the way they are in other walks of life.  Too many players seem to honor contracts only so long as they still like them…:as soon as they no longer like them, they act as if they never signed it.

 

Imagine if one of the teams tried to do something like this whenever they get buyer’s remorse on a contract.

[stitches]

Just now, shasta519 said:

He was a PBer, but he also played really bad the end of last season.

 

Interested to see where this goes.

It wasn't just the end of the season. I didn't like his play throughout the whole season, there was a very clear step down from his previous years... the last two games were hust the exclamation point of the whole thing. The PB was nonsense. He didn't deserve that spot(for this year... maybe he deserved it for previous ones), 

[Scott Pennock]

 So what if he "outperformed" his contract. If he "underperformed" he wouldn't demand a paycut so let's not act like he's a fricken Saint here.

 

He willingly signed it and was "speechless" as I recall......see linked article!

 

https://www.colts.com/news/kenny-moore-ii-speechless-after-signing-new-contract

 

From Sportrac

Kenny Moore signed a 4 year, $33,300,000 contract with the Indianapolis Colts, including $9,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,325,000. In 2022, Moore will earn a base salary of $6,500,000 and a roster bonus of $250,000, while carrying a cap hit of $6,750,000.

Contract: 4 yr(s) / $33,300,000

Guaranteed at Signing: $9,000,000

Average Salary: $8,325,000

 

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, stitches said:

So the 15th best corner for the duration of his previous contract. Now do the same for last year. Because he's certainly not anywhere close to top 15 last year. Maybe top 50.... 

 

Dear God,  these rants are embarrassing.   Moore is one of the top nickel corners in the game.   No, he didn’t have a great year last year.   He also had injuries and Covid.  And the market for corners has exploded.  Did you just see what Alexander in GB got?   $21m per.   
 

Kenny will likely get some more guaranteed money despite your moral outrage and indignation.   Good grief. 

[csmopar]

Meh cry some where else. He’s replaceable. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

It wasn't just the end of the season. I didn't like his play throughout the whole season, there was a very clear step down from his previous years... the last two games were hust the exclamation point of the whole thing. The PB was nonsense. He didn't deserve that spot(for this year... maybe he deserved it for previous ones), 

 

I think he's a bit of an overrated player because he has limitations. But I still love the guy.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Yes, he earned that contract and the Colts gave it go him. I have no problem with his current contract. And he is still UNDER THAT CONTRACT!! For TWO MORE YEARS! So how about he gets on the field and practice with his teammates as if he's actually being paid by the Colts and as if it's actually HIS SIGNATURE under that contract. 

 

His best opportunity to maximize his earning potential is to get his * on the practice field and have a good season. If he had played well, I bet Ballard wouldn't mind giving him an extension and a good contract he would be happy with. But what he wants is something entirely different - he wants to play like % and still get paid. Well, no.... I'd be good with the Colts just telling him - no, prove it. Unless that whole accountability thing was just for show and Wentz was indeed the only scapegoat who deserved any beef for what this team did last year. 

 

Yeah, this is typical, rabid fan, bitter nonsense, turning hard on a player using the only leverage he has to maximize his earning potential. 

 

The Colts could cut Kenny Moore tomorrow, and pay him absolutely nothing more. If Moore is practicing in OTAs and blows an Achilles or an ACL, the Colts would IR him and force an injury split into his contract, reducing his 2022 earnings. Let's not talk about the sanctity of the contract, when that sanctity is one-sided. 

 

It's also pretty extreme to undermine a player's entire career because he had a couple bad games at the end of the season. Kenny Moore and Carson Wentz are not the same guy just because they both played poorly in the last two games. 

 

And really, as was mentioned earlier, this is the weakest "holdout" I've ever seen. First, it's not a holdout because OTAs are voluntary -- another area where players get screwed in public perception, because if they choose not to show up to a non-mandatory team event then the fans and media turn on them, even though it's the players risking their career/health, especially with no guaranteed money on their contracts (like Moore right now).

 

Second, the dude is actually present, and just not practicing on the field. Aaron Rodgers -- who flamed out in the playoffs again, and who has held his team hostage the last two offseasons, and who signed a massive contract to make him the highest paid player in the league -- is literally on the golf course as I type this, advancing his own agenda, while his teammates are at OTAs. 

 

And if the Colts tell Kenny Moore 'no, prove it, and we'll talk,' that's fine. It would not be the first time a team told a player with two years remaining on his contract that they weren't going to talk about a new deal. There are lots of ways they can handle this, and I'm sure they've weighed them out. Just because he wants a new deal doesn't mean they have to capitulate, and I'd be fine with them taking a hardline there. 

 

What I'm not fine with is people acting like he's "wrong" for making his wishes known, in literally the only way he can.

[Colt.45]

Good for him. As long as his agent has a case, and he indeed can prove that case then he does deserve to get paid as much as he can, while he can.

 

This is NOT a negative thing, Colts fans. If our GM and his staff (inc coaching staff) did not anticipate this happening then we need a new GM. 

The way the BUSINESS of the sport works should be separated from the way the love and other mushy side of the sport works. As long as Moore shows up when he is mandated to, and that he plays up to the level of the wage he is asking for, then i don't see the problem. OTAs are optional, last i checked. I believe a great player used to once say that....ah yes, Edgerrin James was his name.

 

Good for Kenny, get paid dude. 

[Colt.45]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

This is the business. He's a good player, just made his first Pro Bowl (which earned him an extra $300k over the next two years), likely at the peak of his powers. There's no more guaranteed money on his contract. He'll be 27 at the start of the season, 29 when his contract expires. This represents a good chance for him to lock up more money and maximize his earning potential. As a UDFA, he was able to sign his new deal a year early, so now only five years into his career he has a rare chance for a third contract while his 30s are still a little ways away. He's the 24th highest paid corner in the NFL, making about 40% of what the highest paid corners make, and he's the 2nd highest paid on the roster now that Gilmore is here. He also might be uncertain about his future in the new defense, and wants to lock up more money/guarantees before that uncertainty costs him some standing.

 

I agree that he wasn't great last season, especially at the end of the year. But his reasoning is obvious, and I think the team knows better than to say 'Kenny, get back to work, we're not going to extend you or give you more money, plus you kind of let us down last season.' 

 

Also, his 'holdout' is kind of as peaceful and reasonable as it could be. It's like 'hey, I would like to be taken seriously, but I don't want to rock the boat too much.' Hopefully it gets resolved without too much trouble, but it's possible they just move some money around. They could give him some more guaranteed money in 2022 and bring his cap hit down, without extending him. I kind of thought they should restructure him anyway, he seemed like an obvious candidate to create some cap space.

You, my friend, understand the business of football.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

So disappointing.  Maybe the last Colt I’d have expected this from.

 

One thing I hate about pro sports is that contracts just don’t seem to be honored the way they are in other walks of life.  Too many players seem to honor contracts only so long as they still like them…:as soon as they no longer like them, they act as if they never signed it.

 

Imagine if one of the teams tried to do something like this whenever they get buyer’s remorse on a contract.

Ok..    your last paragraph says you don’t follow football very closely.   Teams do this all the time.  Even the Colts.  We signed Pierre Desir to 3 years and 22 million.   One year later, we cut him.   Desir got zero more dollars from the Colts.  This happens every year.  
 

Don’t you notice every year just before free agency starts and some teams are way WAY Over The Cap and people here anticipate teams cutting expensive players?   This happens every year.   
 

Players laugh at fans who don’t get this.   Teams cut players all the time who have years left on their contract.   If we wanted, we could cut Kenny Moore today and we’d owe him zero. 

[MarquisJ]

I dont know if you can let Hunter Renfrow do what he did week 16 and try to hold out for a new contract... All jokes aside I really like Kenny one of my favorites on the Colts today but he did leave a bad taste in my mouth those last two weeks but hopefully they figure it all out.

[shasta519]

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yes, he earned that contract and the Colts gave it go him. I have no problem with his current contract. And he is still UNDER THAT CONTRACT!! For TWO MORE YEARS! So how about he gets on the field and practice with his teammates as if he's actually being paid by the Colts and as if it's actually HIS SIGNATURE under that contract.  

 

He was an UDFA, so he actually got his extension after only two years in the league. The Colts took a big leap in giving him a 4-year extension after one season starting. He knew the score too when he signed that deal...that he was trading some future earning potential to get some security really early in his career.

 

But I understand his position as well.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Ok..    your last paragraph says you don’t follow football very closely.   Teams do this all the time.  Even the Colts.  We signed Pierre Desir to 3 years and 22 million.   One year later, we cut him.   Desir got zero more dollars from the Colts.  This happens every year.  
 

Don’t you notice every year just before free agency starts and some teams are way WAY Over The Cap and people here anticipate teams cutting expensive players?   This happens every year.   
 

Players laugh at fans who don’t get this.   Teams cut players all the time who have years left on their contract.   If we wanted, we could cut Kenny Moore today and we’d owe him zero. 

 

Yeah, the 'honor your contract!' crowd is out of touch in a real way.

[shasta519]

DeFo is another who I thought might be a potential holdout at some point. The last two years of his contract have no gtd money, which is unusual for a player of his status. Plus, he will only be 29 and could still get another huge contract with some serious guarantees.

 

So that could be an interesting one to watch as well.