Kenny Moore absent from OTAs, wants new contract

[EastStreet]

Just now, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Our D is going to be significantly different when we play cover 3, and our pass rush will be much improved IMO.
  I am not exactly sure if Kenny will be used more like he was when he earned being the highest paid slot, or if he can play at a consistently high level in the new D.

 I want to think he can, but i'm not sure today that he can't be replaced by someone already on the roster without a significant drop in play.
 Seems like guaranteeing him much of his salary and adding easily attainable bonuses is what will happen. But i do not believe he has earned more than a smaller rather than large bonus pkg. 
  I can forsee the possibility that it may become in our and his best interest that he moves on after this season. He will hopefully play well.

I'd definitely prefer to see him in Gus's scheme before giving him a raise/extension. 

We'll likely play mostly C3, but also a fair amount of match stuff. He should be fine on straight cover 3, but I always hold my breath if he ever is taken vertical. 

[Superman]

Just now, stitches said:

They can but why would they? What's the chance they would? Even if he suffers a major injury. IMO it's close to 0. Definitely not high enough to stage a "hold in" over. 

 

I'm talking about theory, not what I expect to happen. But a player not feeling warm and fuzzy because a team is not likely to cut him isn't all that motivating, in most cases, especially not if he feels his contract doesn't match his market.

 

He's taking this action because he wants more money, or guaranteed money, or (probably) both. And given that there's no guaranteed money remaining on his contract, that doesn't seem outrageous.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah, that isnt how NFL contracts work. Educate yourself or ask for help with that education. You're in the wrong here.

well then good riddance. i want winners. I am very educated. He agreed to a contract, play it out - common sense. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

"Wrong" or "right" is a subjective term in this situation. And saying this is only way to make his wishes known is literally not accurate. A simple conversation with the FO is a way. A Tweet or interview is a way. He's choosing a soft holdout with 2 years left on his contract, which is a public display, and only one of several ways to make his wishes known.

 

It's the only way that actually matters, and has been proven to have an impact.

 

Quote

I'd add that your comments are pretty one sided here. Yes, some deals are one sided. Some deals are not. Some players get underpaid based on their performance, some overpaid. Did Indy ask for a refund after it gave Brissett and unneeded raise and extension, only to have him sit the bench the next season? Nope.

 

My comments aren't one sided. I'm expressing my viewpoint, which is actually pretty balanced, if I do say so myself. Don't know how JB's contract situation -- which I didn't like -- is relevant.

 

Quote

So sorry, not going to feel sorry for the guy. He's made 23ish M in 5 seasons as a UDFA. I have to think that's pretty darn good for a UDFA, no?

 

Didn't suggest anyone should feel sorry for him. But if a player thinks he has value above his current pay, responding with 'you've already made a lot of money, why can't you just be happy with that?' seems to be off target. 

 

Quote

Frankly it's a weird time for him to do this. 2 years left on his contract, and after a year where he underperformed. And realistically, yes, he's a good slot CB or NB, but he showed he's not very good at all when taken vertical, or when asked to fill in at outside corner.

 

No guaranteed money remaining. He just hit his Pro Bowl bonus, and got a relatively paltry $300k bonus which will be paid over two years. He's playing in a new scheme, and all the reasons you gave for being concerned about how he'll play moving forward might be concerns he has regarding his future earning potential. The market for corners just exploded. The timing is obvious. He's just a year earlier than anyone wanted to hear this from him, including the team. But that's not unprecedented.

 

Quote

And it wasn't just a couple bad games at the end of the year. Teams picked on him last season, and he had ups and down throughout the year. He gave up the most receptions of any player in the NFL last season, was targeted 2nd most, and was top 10 in both yards and TDs allowed. So just maybe, he should have focused on improving this year, and waited till next off season (when he'd be in a contract year) to start the public leveraging. And frankly, I'd like to see how he plays in Bradley's new scheme before a raise/extension. 

 

And with all that, was still our third best defensive player last season. As I said earlier, if he was a FA, he'd get more than $6.75m, and that's pretty obvious. Again, he wants to capitalize on his standing while he has it. 

 

Quote

And since when is simply asking that someone honor a contract with 2 years left, "rabid fan" or "bitter nonsense", especially after a year of decline. That's more than a little harsh given this is an area where folks will have differing opinions. It's a business.... 

 

It always has been. Especially in the NFL.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have stated I love Kenny Moore but he should play his contract out and not complain - that becomes a distraction. Good players who have agreed to a contract then want to retract on a contract is nonsense. I don't care how anyone wants to slice it. He isn't a franchise QB.

[Colt.45]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

"Wrong" or "right" is a subjective term in this situation. And saying this is only way to make his wishes known is literally not accurate. A simple conversation with the FO is a way. A Tweet or interview is a way. He's choosing a soft holdout with 2 years left on his contract, which is a public display, and only one of several ways to make his wishes known. If you think this is the first time the front office have heard of this, I think you know less about the business side of the sport than you think you do. Tweeting? You want a player to tweet about contract details? Forgive me if i laugh a bit here, have you been paying attention to how that typically goes for players? This course of action is the standard today.

 

I'd add that your comments are pretty one sided here. Yes, some deals are one sided. Some deals are not. Some players get underpaid based on their performance, some overpaid. Did Indy ask for a refund after it gave Brissett and unneeded raise and extension, only to have him sit the bench the next season? Nope.

 

So sorry, not going to feel sorry for the guy. He's made 23ish M in 5 seasons as a UDFA. I have to think that's pretty darn good for a UDFA, no? Frankly it's a weird time for him to do this. 2 years left on his contract, and after a year where he underperformed. And realistically, yes, he's a good slot CB or NB, but he showed he's not very good at all when taken vertical, or when asked to fill in at outside corner. He's not perfect. He got paid 23M over 5 years. He underperformed. Sure. None of that takes away from the actual nature of the business and how contract negotiations go in the NFL today. Not on the agent side, player side, or club side. Doesnt matter if he made 500M over the last two years. If the market price changes, he is obliged to negotiate FAIR wages and take actions that are standard practice. The concept of FAIR is one i am seeing many struggle with today.

 

And it wasn't just a couple bad games at the end of the year. Teams picked on him last season, and he had ups and down throughout the year. He gave up the most receptions of any player in the NFL last season, was targeted 2nd most, and was top 10 in both yards and TDs allowed. So just maybe, he should have focused on improving this year, and waited till next off season (when he'd be in a contract year) to start the public leveraging. And frankly, I'd like to see how he plays in Bradley's new scheme before a raise/extension. How he plays in the system and all that will count in contract negotiations. It is a negotiation and he will be paid fair wage, either by us or by someone else. That's the fact of NFL business. You are arguing for the Colts, his agent will present an argument for Moore, and Moore will be paid what is fair at the end of the day.

 

And since when is simply asking that someone honor a contract with 2 years left, "rabid fan" or "bitter nonsense", especially after a year of decline. That's more than a little harsh given this is an area where folks will have differing opinions. It's a business.... Honor has nothing to do with this. That's a baseless argument. You are one of the most knowledgeable folks on here yet you're acting as if you're a football fan who just started following the game today. There is no honor in these contracts. How many players in the league have fully guaranteed deals? Kirk Cousins....who else? You're saying it's harsh but it most certainly is not. The facts are what they are, folks are either arguing that they want the player to be cheated of his fair wages, or they're saying they want players to give something up while they give up nothing. Hate the wages the players make? Then walk away from the sport in protest.... can't or won't do it? Then you're contributing to why they get paid what society has decided is fair whether you agree and can see it or not. Supply and Demand isn't hokey.

 

 

 

Another good debate coming. Bolded responses to your points.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

well then good riddance. i want winners.

 

What the...???

 

Without digging, I think we have four players on our roster that have even played in a SB (Ryan, Foles, Gilmore, Buckner). If it was 'be a winner or get out,' we wouldn't have a team. 

 

What a ridiculous comment.

[LiveAndLetAddai]

  It is a shame as there has been so much positivity this offseason.  Hopefully this will be rectified quickly, and the Colts can continue to field a team that has aspirations of a deep playoff run.

[Colt.45]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

well then good riddance. i want winners. I am very educated. He agreed to a contract, play it out - common sense. 

You're not educated. Clubs cut players every time including the Colts. This isnt rocket science, you're willfully refusing to be educated. Contracts do NOT work that way in the NFL. This isnt a contract for your mortgage or car note. Doesnt work that way. Read the terms and if you don't want to then understand that you're willfully making dishonest remarks.

[Solid84]

17 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

See how this feels to you? Those feelings that you are expressing are 100% valid. Now, you need to understand that those feelings are not dissimilar to the young man's feelings. Do you know what Kenny Moore has gone through in life to get to where he is? A position that many desire and cant yet he got there and yet you feel empowered to knock him for asking to get paid fair wage according to the conventions of the league he is in? How is that fair???

 

This isnt about being a millionaire. He's not robbing us on Wall Street. He is asking to be paid what society has decided is fair to him. How exactly THAT becomes whining is on you. He is acting rationally. You don't like that aspect of football, cool but it is what is and again YOU contribute to it. Own that part.

The big difference here is he’s been paid millions in guarantees just for signing. He HAS been paid a fair wage. He’s already GETTING a fair wage. Why exactly is he entitled to money if he can’t do his job? He got his guarantees in the event he got injured. If he plays this season he’s STILL getting paid the money he’s entitled to. He’s NOT asking to get paid, he’s asking to get paid MORE and/or getting paid for doing nothing but being on the roster. And that’s when he’s already the highest paid at his position. THAT is whining to me. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What the...???

 

Without digging, I think we have four players on our roster that have even played in a SB (Ryan, Foles, Gilmore, Buckner). If it was 'be a winner or get out,' we wouldn't have a team. 

 

What a ridiculous comment.

Well Kenny is complaining like he has won something, like he is Deion. I am over these players complaining about making millions and it still isn't enough. If he fills my gas tank for 3 months I might forgive him. Win me a SB or at least win the division and I will listen. Nothing ridiculous about my comment at all. You saying my comment is ridiculous makes you look ridiculous  

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's the only way that actually matters, and has been proven to have an impact.

 

 

My comments aren't one sided. I'm expressing my viewpoint, which is actually pretty balanced, if I do say so myself. Don't know how JB's contract situation -- which I didn't like -- is relevant.

 

 

Didn't suggest anyone should feel sorry for him. But if a player thinks he has value above his current pay, responding with 'you've already made a lot of money, why can't you just be happy with that?' seems to be off target. 

 

 

No guaranteed money remaining. He just hit his Pro Bowl bonus, and got a relatively paltry $300k bonus which will be paid over two years. He's playing in a new scheme, and all the reasons you gave for being concerned about how he'll play moving forward might be concerns he has regarding his future earning potential. The market for corners just exploded. The timing is obvious. He's just a year earlier than anyone wanted to hear this from him, including the team. But that's not unprecedented.

 

 

And with all that, was still our third best defensive player last season. As I said earlier, if he was a FA, he'd get more than $6.75m, and that's pretty obvious. Again, he wants to capitalize on his standing while he has it. 

 

 

It always has been. Especially in the NFL.

 

So anyone that puts stock in a legally binding contract has always been a rabid fan or bitter non-sensical... That's probably the worst take I've ever seen from you. 

 

You say you're not asking anyone to feel sorry for him, but your case reads like he's a victim and is being mistreated somehow. 

 

You're flippant glossing over of his performance drop is like a Fred Astaire dance step, which looked like an attempt to repackage into another reason why he should hold out lol... come on man.

 

Overall, I'd be just fine is they simply guaranteed his existing contract. But a raise or an extension right now IMO would be silly. And an early (2 years left) holdout like this, should it translate into that, would be bad precedent. I guess Taylor, Pittman, and Paye should hold out too?

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The big difference here is he’s been paid millions in guarantees just for signing. He HAS been paid a fair wage. He’s already GETTING a fair wage. Why exactly is he entitled to money if he can’t do his job? He got his guarantees in the event he got injured. If he plays this season he’s STILL getting paid the money he’s entitled to. He’s NOT asking to get paid, he’s asking to get paid MORE and/or getting paid for doing nothing but being on the roster. And that’s when he’s already the highest paid at his position. THAT is whining to me. 

Yeah, it doesnt matter if he was paid BILLIONS. There is a convention and body he is part of called the NFL, and if those billions are fair according to that league then that's what is fair.

 

You keep arguing as if his wages should be compared to everyone else in the country yet when i asked you to compare yourself to others in the entire globe, you argued that i don't know you and made like i wasnt being fair to you. You're a human being are you not? How is it not fair to make my argument? The only point that matters here is what the NFL pays everyone else in it's league, it's not about when he asked for money, that is accepted business standard in this league. 

 

If you think business standard in this league is whiny then that's fine. As long as you understand that when you come on here and argue about Colts football like we all do, you are 100% part of the reason the players get paid as they do. You are complicit whether you see it or not. So it's a whining league with overpaid players? Congrats and good job for the role you've played in it. I own my responsibility, do you own yours?

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

You're not educated. Clubs cut players every time including the Colts. This isnt rocket science, you're willfully refusing to be educated. Contracts do NOT work that way in the NFL. This isnt a contract for your mortgage or car note. Doesnt work that way. Read the terms and if you don't want to then understand that you're willfully making dishonest remarks.

I am not educated  . You have no clue. How old are you?

[Solid84]

29 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're missing the point. When you want a FA, it's 'pay the man, Ballard, stop being cheap!' But when it's our own player who feels like his contract doesn't match his real value, it's 'shut up and play out your contract!' There's a double standard there.

Not really. This is a case of people feeling we already paid him and then he wants more. It stinks of entitlement especially on top of a season where he didn’t perform the way he’s done in seasons past and us losing out on a playoff spot. 
 

 

[luv_pony_express]

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that you're not mad.

 

NFL contracts are mere guidelines. They're effectively "here's some money this year, and then we'll see". These contracts are NOT fully guaranteed. Also, when you read or hear that a player got $100Million contract, ask for how much is guaranteed because those big amounts quoted are nowhere close to what gets paid out for most players.

 

You can have your opinion, but what i'm trying to tell you is how the business works. If your opinion conflicts with the facts on the ground then you're going to run into problems. Opinions are like freedom of speech...they come with consequence. That's the silent part that many don't tell you. Saying a player shouldn't ask for a raise is all well and good except that player, in that so-called bad year, made it to the pro-bowl for the first time in his career. So again, the year you call a bad one wasn't viewed that way by the pro bowl. Okay, you're going to argue next that the pro bowl isnt worth spit....okay sure, that's a fine opinion to have except for the fact (facts keep interfering...) that in contract negotiations, those individual accolades (pro bowl, walter payton man of the year, all pro, etc) will absolutely carry weight. So again...it's fine to have opinions but facts matter. Do i think Moore played well last year? Meh, he had a so-so year especially early on but you'd best believe he's not arbitrarily asking for money, he has a legit case that's almost water tight. The ball is in Ballard's court. It's either we pay him or someone else likely will. This is business.

I would agree with all of that…if his contract was up.

 

What I object to is having machinations prior to that.  Granted, he hasn’t violated his contract yet.  That has to be said.  But it could come to that - and has for other players.

 

Players need to play out their contracts - then negotiate new ones.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

So anyone that puts stock in a legally binding contract has always been a rabid fan or bitter non-sensical... That's probably the worst take I've ever seen from you. 

 

You say you're not asking anyone to feel sorry for him, but your case reads like he's a victim and is being mistreated somehow. 

 

You're flippant glossing over of his performance drop is like a Fred Astaire dance step, which looked like an attempt to repackage into another reason why he should hold out lol... come on man.

 

Overall, I'd be just fine is they simply guaranteed his existing contract. But a raise or an extension right now IMO would be silly. And an early (2 years left) holdout like this, should it translate into that, would be bad precedent. I guess Taylor, Pittman, and Paye should hold out too?

Worst take? Speaking of.... I cannot believe you're arguing that he signed a legally binding contract. That is the argument you make? Yet you will gladly come here and say some player should be shipped out for bad play, what happened to that legal argument then? Doesnt matter to you then does it? Actually, you'll be fine with cutting Moore the minute he stops performing good enough for you. 

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I have not followed this discussion, but if you like, here are the cons of front loading a contract….

 

From a team stand point, the con is that teams are typically tight against the cap and since the cap typically goes up every year, you typically want to put more money in the outgoing years when there’s more cap space. 
 

From a players standpoint point, if you’re an older player front loading is typically good.  You don’t know how many years you have left and you’re getting more money in your pocket sooner rather than later.  But if you’re a younger player, they typically want to make more and more as they get better and the cap is going up so teams can offer more.  Front loading is ok, everyone likes getting more money sooner, but then you’re setting up to do a potential fight with the team who may not be willing to re-do the deal.  What happens if the player has been injured or comes off a down year?  And now wants more?    Well..   Kenny’s deal wasn’t front loaded, it has gotten bigger, but you see where Moore is now wanting to re-do his deal coming off his worst season.  Things get complicated.  
 

Don’t know if this helps, but hope so….

I guess I worded it bad.  I'm not confused on front loaded contracts, but confused why Kenny is deciding to have an issue now when we're finally back on track as a team having 2 more years left on his contract.  

 

I appreciate your explanation though.  I love Kenny...I guess I'd give him 12/yr mil and call it a day

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not educated  . You have no clue. How old are you?

Whether i'm 10, 50, or 90 doesnt matter. You are being offered free education on a subject that you're clearly not knowledgable about, yet you bring up age with no shame? Stop.

This is how NFL business works, don't like it? Stop whining.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

So anyone that puts stock in a legally binding contract has always been a rabid fan or bitter non-sensical... That's probably the worst take I've ever seen from you. 

 

You say you're not asking anyone to feel sorry for him, but your case reads like he's a victim and is being mistreated somehow. 

 

You're flippant glossing over of his performance drop is like a Fred Astaire dance step, which looked like an attempt to repackage into another reason why he should hold out lol... come on man.

 

Overall, I'd be just fine is they simply guaranteed his existing contract. But a raise or an extension right now IMO would be silly. And an early (2 years left) holdout like this, should it translate into that, would be bad precedent. I guess Taylor, Pittman, and Paye should hold out too?

I agree.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

Whether i'm 10, 50, or 90 doesnt matter. You are being offered free education on a subject that you're clearly not knowledgable about, yet you bring up age with no shame? Stop.

This is how NFL business works, don't like it? Stop whining.

I am not whining I am laughing 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Another good debate coming. Bolded responses to your points.

lol... 

Teams have salary caps. There are salary rules. There are player contracts.

Nobody is cheating Kenny out of anything here. 

 

You say my take is like I haven't been watching football very long. I follow contracts and cap more than 99% of the people on this board, so well aware of what is the norm. Sorry, some people believe in honoring contracts. Some don't. But I'm gonna guess a lot of people believe in honoring a contract after a year of decline, especially with multiple years left on the contract.

 

Frankly I don't care what players or owners make. I do care how we manage our cap, and I do care when someone wants a super early raise/extension. It impacts other areas of the team in terms of what we can or can't spend on. Again, there is a cap. 

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

I would agree with all of that…if his contract was up.

 

What I object to is having machinations prior to that.  Granted, he hasn’t violated his contract yet.  That has to be said.  But it could come to that - and has for other players.

 

Players need to play out their contracts - then negotiate new ones.

Sure. I agree with you BUT that is not how it works in reality and his actions are considered SOFT and actually an honorable way to handle the business side while still being there for his team. That is how the business side works.  

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not whining I am laughing 

I'm laughing with you too. It's not hard to see how the world is the way it is lol

[twfish]

His isn’t bad honestly, he’s still with the team and everything. We constantly restructure guys to lower the cap or they will take a pay cut. It goes both ways, I don’t view this as too much of an issue

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Worst take? Speaking of.... I cannot believe you're arguing that he signed a legally binding contract. That is the argument you make? Yet you will gladly come here and say some player should be shipped out for bad play, what happened to that legal argument then? Doesnt matter to you then does it? Actually, you'll be fine with cutting Moore the minute he stops performing good enough for you. 

Every contract has terms. Some have less guarantees, some have more. 

 

Team's can't break the terms. They can cut or waive someone, but they have to fulfil the terms of the contract. You seem to think teams must fulfil terms, but players have zero obligation? lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Sure. I agree with you BUT that is not how it works in reality and his actions are considered SOFT and actually an honorable way to handle the business side while still being there for his team. That is how the business side works.  

I'm laughing with you too. It's not hard to see how the world is the way it is lol

- now I am whining. 

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

lol... 

Teams have salary caps. There are salary rules. There are player contracts.

Nobody is cheating Kenny out of anything here. 

 

You say my take is like I haven't been watching football very long. I follow contracts and cap more than 99% of the people on this board, so well aware of what is the norm. Sorry, some people believe in honoring contracts. Some don't. But I'm gonna guess a lot of people believe in honoring a contract after a year of decline, especially with multiple years left on the contract.

 

Frankly I don't care what players or owners make. I do care how we manage our cap, and I do care when someone wants a super early raise/extension. It impacts other areas of the team in terms of what we can or can't spend on. Again, there is a cap. 

 

There are player contracts and players are allowed to negotiate those contracts when the market shifts. That is fair market practice. You say you follow market practice yet your comments betray that 100%.

Some people believe in honoring contracts and don't care whether a player gets cheated and shafted or not as long as he honors the contract, even though he is allowed to negotiate it. Yeah, there's unfairness here and it aint from the player.

 

Cap doesnt matter and is irrelevant. Why are you bringing it up? What's that got to do with a contract? That's the team's problem not the player's problem. Stop putting stuff on the player which is not his responsibility or problem. 

 

If you've ever said you'd gladly cut player X, and grab player Y from another team, then you got ZERO right in this argument. Like, absolute ZERO.

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Every contract has terms. Some have less guarantees, some have more. 

 

Team's can't break the terms. They can cut or waive someone, but they have to fulfil the terms of the contract. You seem to think teams must fulfil terms, but players have zero obligation? lol

Absolutely not. I don't think teams have to fulfill anything. I think the team has to act in its best interest. I understand that. You don't seem to think the player should do same though. 

 

 

How many contracts are fully guaranteed? If it aint fully guaranteed, it's open to negotiation. That's how the business works. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

@Supermanif you sign a WR for 30 Mill for 3 years and he agrees to it = 10 Mill a year. Loves his contract and you as an owner are proud and comfy with it. Then a year later he wants a few mill more and complains. How would you feel? Don't tell me you would be happy because that would be ridiculous beyond belief and you know it.

[shasta519]

55 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is a good point.

 

 

LOL. Bradberry is a boundary CB who is getting paid similar to what Moore makes this year. 

[jbaron04]

targets  - 125 1st in the league last year

receptions allowed  - 87 also first in the league 

 

sorry for image quality had to compress

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

There are player contracts and players are allowed to negotiate those contracts when the market shifts. That is fair market practice. You say you follow market practice yet your comments betray that 100%.

Some people believe in honoring contracts and don't care whether a player gets cheated and shafted or not as long as he honors the contract, even though he is allowed to negotiate it. Yeah, there's unfairness here and it aint from the player.

 

Cap doesnt matter and is irrelevant. Why are you bringing it up? What's that got to do with a contract? That's the team's problem not the player's problem. Stop putting stuff on the player which is not his responsibility or problem. 

 

If you've ever said you'd gladly cut player X, and grab player Y from another team, then you got ZERO right in this argument. Like, absolute ZERO.

Fair is where you get cotton candy.

 

Cap doesn't matter? Holy cow what a horrible take.

 

You have several logic, factual, and common sense fails above.

 

Good talk.. 

[Colt.45]

I really don't see how folks can talk of honor on the one hand, then with the other hand want to deny a player the right to argue for a fair wage according to the standards of the league.

 

If any single one of you arguing about honor was ever dealt with in real life like you're suggesting these players should be dealt with, you would be calling down fire and brimstone. I hope it never happens to you but if/when it does, please come here and share it so we can all publicly deride you for your lack of honor. 

 

The business of the NFL in 2022 works this way. Not by the standards of 1980, or 1990, or 2000, or 2020 even. This is standard business practice and you should actually be proud of the character of the player because he is handling this actually well by today's standards. He is around and being active. He is being a leader. 

[Solid84]

10 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah, it doesnt matter if he was paid BILLIONS. There is a convention and body he is part of called the NFL, and if those billions are fair according to that league then that's what is fair.

 

You keep arguing as if his wages should be compared to everyone else in the country yet when i asked you to compare yourself to others in the entire globe, you argued that i don't know you and made like i wasnt being fair to you. You're a human being are you not? How is it not fair to make my argument? The only point that matters here is what the NFL pays everyone else in it's league, it's not about when he asked for money, that is accepted business standard in this league. 

 

If you think business standard in this league is whiny then that's fine. As long as you understand that when you come on here and argue about Colts football like we all do, you are 100% part of the reason the players get paid as they do. You are complicit whether you see it or not. So it's a whining league with overpaid players? Congrats and good job for the role you've played in it. I own my responsibility, do you own yours?

 

You keep getting hung up on the “numbers”. Strike my first sentence and tell me where I’m wrong? He’s BEEN paid and he gets paid when he plays, top dollar in fact. What exactly is wrong with that?

 

Also comparing income nationally and globally is two extremely different things. An annual income of 50k is about average in the US where as 50k in a 3rd world country is a small fortune because expenses are vastly different. It’s not comparable.

 

The point is he can live comfortably for the money he has already made in the US and the Colts already made him the highest paid slot corner, so why should he feel entitled to more guaranteed money? He didn’t exactly prove he was worth it last year..

  The way the NFL is run doesn’t entitle him to more guaranteed money 2 years before his contract is out and it doesn’t entitle him to guaranteed money when he’s up for a new one (as far as I know?). 
 

He’s not entitled to more money, millions or not, and if he wants more he has to earn it in a new defensive scheme. 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Absolutely not. I don't think teams have to fulfill anything. I think the team has to act in its best interest. I understand that. You don't seem to think the player should do same though. 

 

 

How many contracts are fully guaranteed? If it aint fully guaranteed, it's open to negotiation. That's how the business works. 

Again, logic and factual failure here.

 

Let me know all the times a team did not honor a contract under the NFL rules. 

[Colt.45]

Just now, EastStreet said:

Fair is where you get cotton candy.

 

Cap doesn't matter? Holy cow what a horrible take.

 

You have several logic, factual, and common sense fails above.

 

Good talk.. 

Fair is where you get cotton candy. It's also how player's and people decide their wages. Get with the times.

 

Cap doesnt matter. If the Colts fielding a good team meant they were going to cheat a player and the player responded then the idiocy is 100% on the Colts side. So yeah congrats, maybe this team is indeed run by dunces if they dare argue about the cap.

 

I present FACTS. You present emotions.

 

Good talk. 

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think Kenny WAS the highest paid slot corner.   I think the last year, maybe two, that us no longer the case. 
 

I think Jaire Alexander just got $21 mill per.   I believe he plays the slot for GrBay. 

I think he played the outside , packers GM came out and said he is gonna be following the beat Wr in 2022 , so I guess that will reflect the salary. We all know what would happen if we asked Kenny Moore to cover one of the top 2 Wr on a team 

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

You keep getting hung up on the “numbers”. Strike my first sentence and tell me where I’m wrong? He’s BEEN paid and he gets paid when he plays, top dollar in fact. What exactly is wrong with that?

 

Also comparing income nationally and globally is two extremely different things. An annual income of 50k is about average in the US where as 50k in a 3rd world country is a small fortune because expenses are vastly different. It’s not comparable.

 

The point is he can live comfortably for the money he has already made in the US and the Colts already made him the highest paid slot corner, so why should he feel entitled to more guaranteed money? He didn’t exactly prove he was worth it last year..

  The way the NFL is run doesn’t entitle him to more guaranteed money 2 years before his contract is out and it doesn’t entitle him to guaranteed money when he’s up for a new one (as far as I know?). 
 

He’s not entitled to more money, millions or not, and if he wants more he has to earn it in a new defensive scheme. 

Solid84. This is how business is conducted in the NFL. How hard is that to grasp?

 

It's not about how comfortable he can be, quit bringing in those arguments. Hot dang, I hope you guys don't represent yourselves in wage discussions because you're going to get shafted from sea to shining sea. This is standard business practice in the NFL my guy. This is how the contracts work. If you think otherwise, you've been misinformed about the league you watch

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Again, logic and factual failure here.

 

Let me know all the times a team did not honor a contract under the NFL rules. 

Once you sign a contract you should honor it, it is a contract. If a player just dominates like within 2 years of his contract and wins a SB then he can spout and say I need a bigger contract. Where was Kenny Moore at Jacks?

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Again, logic and factual failure here.

 

Let me know all the times a team did not honor a contract under the NFL rules. 

Kenny Moore is not doing a single thing that's against the same NFL rules. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Stop trying to cheat the player.