Kenny Moore absent from OTAs, wants new contract

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

First off, you mentioned a bunch of people that I wasn’t addressing, nor am I mad.  Secondly, I was genuinely asking what contracts are for, if not to honor them.  What is the point?  Thirdly, I can have my own opinion about if a player has a bad year and asks for more money, it seems like entitlement to me? Others have said other CBs around the league are making more money?  That sounds like entitlement to me.  Now if he played as well or better than previous years, it would make sense to me to ask for more money.  That’s just my opinion. Others may disagree.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that you're not mad.

 

NFL contracts are mere guidelines. They're effectively "here's some money this year, and then we'll see". These contracts are NOT fully guaranteed. Also, when you read or hear that a player got $100Million contract, ask for how much is guaranteed because those big amounts quoted are nowhere close to what gets paid out for most players.

 

You can have your opinion, but what i'm trying to tell you is how the business works. If your opinion conflicts with the facts on the ground then you're going to run into problems. Opinions are like freedom of speech...they come with consequence. That's the silent part that many don't tell you. Saying a player shouldn't ask for a raise is all well and good except that player, in that so-called bad year, made it to the pro-bowl for the first time in his career. So again, the year you call a bad one wasn't viewed that way by the pro bowl. Okay, you're going to argue next that the pro bowl isnt worth spit....okay sure, that's a fine opinion to have except for the fact (facts keep interfering...) that in contract negotiations, those individual accolades (pro bowl, walter payton man of the year, all pro, etc) will absolutely carry weight. So again...it's fine to have opinions but facts matter. Do i think Moore played well last year? Meh, he had a so-so year especially early on but you'd best believe he's not arbitrarily asking for money, he has a legit case that's almost water tight. The ball is in Ballard's court. It's either we pay him or someone else likely will. This is business.

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

Ok, hear me out…I’m not angry, just confused on Kenny’s approach.  Ballard made him the highest paid slot corner, before his first contract was up.  I don’t think it’s Ballards fault that the market increased.

 

Not really my point though.  My confusion is in Kenny wanting more money, when you agreed to front load your recent contract to begin with.  Now that most of the money was paid, you want more?  Might just be me, but it just feels like trying to find a loophole in signing contracts

 

again not mad or angry, I support players getting what they’re worth when the time comes.  Just confused and concerned with the approach 

[Colt.45]

25 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I just wanted to put his alleged demands into perspective. 
 

The thing is he’s already got, what, 8-9 million in signing bonus? It’s not like he’s in need, yet he wants more while already being the highest paid slot corner in the league. 
 

1. That’s why you had to make sure you signed with the right guy/team.
2. The team would also be cheating themselves out of playing time from the league highest paid (and thus supposedly the best?) slot corner. Who’s cheating who then?

3. GMs who do this only make it so future players will demand more guarantees to sign with him/the team. 

 

You're putting his demands in perspective. I totally get it brother. I am asking YOU if you feel privileged and lucky because there're many whose cards meant they are born citizens of other countries. Good, hardworking people YET their lives are not worth your life according to the facts. Do you feel privileged? Are you turning down chances or fighting so that they get a fair shot? Are you demanding that their nations get an equal chance at the table on international affairs? Now, THAT is an abstract thought, and the perspective isnt that far removed from the logical argument you're making. 

 

Need? Seriously, you're tugging on the emotional heartstrings while presenting no facts that acknowledge the reality of the world, please don't do that. Is every dollar you have being used optimally? Are you sending your extra change to poor folks around the world? It's not like you're in need like those poor suckers after all. I mean, i',m sure you can buy Colts gear, and i'm sure you pay for the internet and x, y, z while those folks can barely stick a meal a day in their belly, and they certainly don't get the chance or luxury of being on the internet arguing NFL football. So....why are you not giving away more? Are you going to trade places with those people? See how that argument comes off? It doesnt make sense, does it?

 

You're one of my fave forumers man. You're also closing your mind on this. The business of the NFL is what it is, you aint gotta agree with it of course, but if you feel strongly enough, you can walk. Seriously. One day, i'm going to cut this addiction out because i share some of your feelings but the fact is i aint doing it today and because of folks like me...and you, the NFL is king, and the players who play in it must be smart enough to capitalize on it. Good for them. They deserve it given how much the owners actually make.

[compuls1v3]

4 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

 

Thanks for clarifying that you're not mad.

 

NFL contracts are mere guidelines. They're effectively "here's some money this year, and then we'll see". These contracts are NOT fully guaranteed. Also, when you read or hear that a player got $100Million contract, ask for how much is guaranteed because those big amounts quoted are nowhere close to what gets paid out for most players.

 

You can have your opinion, but what i'm trying to tell you is how the business works. If your opinion conflicts with the facts on the ground then you're going to run into problems. Opinions are like freedom of speech...they come with consequence. That's the silent part that many don't tell you. Saying a player shouldn't ask for a raise is all well and good except that player, in that so-called bad year, made it to the pro-bowl for the first time in his career. So again, the year you call a bad one wasn't viewed that way by the pro bowl. Okay, you're going to argue next that the pro bowl isnt worth spit....okay sure, that's a fine opinion to have except for the fact (facts keep interfering...) that in contract negotiations, those individual accolades (pro bowl, walter payton man of the year, all pro, etc) will absolutely carry weight. So again...it's fine to have opinions but facts matter. Do i think Moore played well last year? Meh, he had a so-so year especially early on but you'd best believe he's not arbitrarily asking for money, he has a legit case that's almost water tight. The ball is in Ballard's court. It's either we pay him or someone else likely will. This is business.

Thanks for explaining about the contracts.  Are contract details public?  Also, again, my opinion of ProBowls is I could care less.  I was happy when Smith got paid, and he wasn’t a ProBowler.  All-Pro is more important in my eyes.  But I could see how Probowl could be important in a contract, if there’s a bonus for it.

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

Ok, hear me out…I’m not angry, just confused on Kenny’s approach.  Ballard made him the highest paid slot corner, before his first contract was up.  I don’t think it’s Ballards fault that the market increased.

 

Not really my point though.  My confusion is in Kenny wanting more money, when you agreed to front load your recent contract to begin with.  Now that most of the money was paid, you want more?  Might just be me, but it just feels like trying to find a loophole in signing contracts

 

again not mad or angry, I support players getting what they’re worth when the time comes.  Just confused and concerned with the approach 

The market shifted. Many other players have made similar demands, there's nothing confusing about it. You answered your question. The price yesterday isnt the price today. I doubt Kenny is going to hold out into the season or make unnecessary 'waves' but nothing confusing here. This isnt about more money, it's about perceived FAIR value. It's about maximizing your value while you can....especially when YOU noted that Rodgers was breathing down his neck which in reality means that Kenny (past this season) might have moved from untouchable to Anthony Walker territory.

[Superman]

23 minutes ago, stitches said:

Heh, I don't know how to defend my "tone". I just posted every single post of mine here and there is one overlapping theme in pretty much every single one of them - level of play and whether it deserves a new contract or not. 

 

No idea how much he gets this year if he were a FA. Based on how much other slots are getting... probably not as much as you assume. I didn't find a list of salaries, but I searched lists of best slot CBs and checked their salaries one by one. Kenny's was the highest. Now this might be missing someone, but I thought it was likely that I checked most of the better/highest paid slots. The salaries slot CBs get are very low compared to outside CBs. It was kind of shocking to see. Makes you wonder even more, how much exactly does Kenny want? 

 

No need to defend your tone, and maybe I was arguing against a monolith, not you specifically. But I don't think I'm making that up.

 

Specific to Kenny, yeah, the question is about what he wants. If he's comparing himself to these corners who mostly play outside in man coverage, his market is well below them. But just looking at his pay schedule over the life of his contract, he's on an old CBA contract, with no guaranteed money remaining, and he's still two years away from FA. 

 

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he just feels like he should get some assurances for the next year, and then maybe get a closer to market extension next year. If he really wants a huge bump in his contract, I think he's fighting a losing battle. It's not gonna get resolved in one day. We'll see what happens.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

Kenny is probably the highest paid “slot corner”. He is not a outside corner by any stretch  

I think Kenny WAS the highest paid slot corner.   I think the last year, maybe two, that us no longer the case. 
 

I think Jaire Alexander just got $21 mill per.   I believe he plays the slot for GrBay. 

[Colt.45]

16 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

Thanks for explaining about the contracts.  Are contract details public?  Also, again, my opinion of ProBowls is I could care less.  I was happy when Smith got paid, and he wasn’t a ProBowler.  All-Pro is more important in my eyes.  But I could see how Probowl could be important in a contract, if there’s a bonus for it.

Yeah, i think most football fans would agree with you. 

Actual Contract details are not public but you can find close representations widely.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

OK, let me ask you directly then - what should the Colts do with Kenny Moore? And does this vibe with whatever version of accountability you want the Colts to instill? Keep in mind - his whole season last year and his final 2 games. He wants a new contract with more money now. What do YOU want us to do? How much more than he's making now are you willing to give him? Lets say he wants 15M a year? Do you give it to him? What's the absolute maximum you would give him? But again ... keep in mind that accountability thing and the way he played last year. 

 

 

Oh I acknowledge it's just business and I acknowledge it's his right to do it. Hell, contractually he can just go home and not do anything... even more - when he's required to be here, he can stay home and risk being fined by the Colts. That too is within his rights. I FULLY acknowledge that. This is NOT the question - the question is - do you think he's warranted in doing this? Do you think he deserves a new contract after last year(or if you want, include the last 2 years)? How much do you think is reasonable for the Colts to pay him after the way he played last year? 

You didn’t ask me, but I’d like to answer.   What I’d offer to do is this….   I’d fully guarantee both of Kenny’s remaining two years.   That’s $15 mill.  But I wouldn’t add any new money or years.   
 

But I’d tell him we can re-visit this next off-season when there is only one year left on his deal.  
 

That’s what I’d do.  Honestly, it’s roughly what I’m expecting CB to do and I think he should do it even if Moore is not happy with the offer.  

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think Jaire Alexander just got $21 mill per.   I believe he plays the slot for GrBay. 

 

He played a lot of slot as a rookie. As of 2020, he was mostly a boundary corner. He got hurt and missed most of last season.

 

Kenny is best at slot, and struggles on the boundary.

[RollerColt]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You didn’t ask me, but I’d like to answer.   What I’d offer to do is this….   I’d fully guarantee both of Kenny’s remaining two years.   That’s $15 mill.  But I wouldn’t add any new money or years.   
 

But I’d tell him we can re-visit this next off-season when there is only one year left on his deal.  
 

That’s what I’d do.  Honestly, it’s roughly what I’m expecting CB to do and I think he should do it even if Moore is not happy with the offer.  

That’s fair. I can understand where Moore is coming from in a way. As a teacher, I can understand not feeling my value is appreciated or acknowledged.

 

I’ve learned from an early age that the only people who have your back in the business and money world is yourself. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Last thing we need from a leader and a good player. I will leave it at that. 

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Last thing we need from a leader and a good player. I will leave it at that. 

Yeah, it's actually the best thing we need. The rookies need to see right away what the business side of the business is. Facts are facts. Leave feelings for game day.

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He played a lot of slot as a rookie. As of 2020, he was mostly a boundary corner. He got hurt and missed most of last season.

 

Kenny is best at slot, and struggles on the boundary.

Thanks.   I did not know the Alexander info.  Appreciate it.   The Kenny info I knew.   Do you roughly know the difference in Moore’s grades from the slit to playing outside?   Roughly-ish?   

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah, it's actually the best thing we need. The rookies need to see right away what the business side of the business is. Facts are facts. Leave feelings for game day.

Win me a SB then gripe. If he signs with someone like the Texans or Jets he will be no name. Win something is all I ask as a fan. He is being paid big money, why gripe? Take care of business and stop being a cry baby, I love Kenny Moore by the way so this bothers me. I think he is good.

[Blueblood23]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, the 'honor your contract!' crowd is out of touch in a real way.

Agree, but why sign one then if it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on?

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks.   I did not know the Alexander info.  Appreciate it.   The Kenny info I knew.   Do you roughly know the difference in Moore’s grades from the slit to playing outside?   Roughly-ish?   

 

PFF doesn't publish grades differentiated by position, at least not that I can see. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Agree, but why sign one then if it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on?

 

I understand your question in principle. In practice, we know how this works. Might as well acknowledge it, rather than act like this isn't part of the business. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Win me a SB then gripe. If he signs with someone like the Texans or Jets he will be no name. Win something is all I ask as a fan. He is being paid big money, why gripe? Take care of business and stop being a cry baby, I love Kenny Moore by the way so this bothers me. I think he is good.

Im sorry, but win me a super bowl, THEN gripe is not a serious answer.   It’s a fans answer.   The owners might love you for it, but there isn’t a player who would take that seriously.   Because every year players from 31 teams don’t win the super bowl.  So none of those guys get to gripe?  Come on now? 

[stitches]

26 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You didn’t ask me, but I’d like to answer.   What I’d offer to do is this….   I’d fully guarantee both of Kenny’s remaining two years.   That’s $15 mill.  But I wouldn’t add any new money or years.   
 

But I’d tell him we can re-visit this next off-season when there is only one year left on his deal.  
 

That’s what I’d do.  Honestly, it’s roughly what I’m expecting CB to do and I think he should do it even if Moore is not happy with the offer.  

That's reasonable, but I seriously doubt this is what Kenny wants when he's doing that "hold in". His contract for this year is all but guaranteed. What has to happen for him to not get his money for this season? He can tear an Achilles/ACL/break a leg tomorrow and the Colts will still not cut him and will give him the full salary he's owed this year, IMO. They'd want to see him back next year... which pretty much guarantees the second year too... unless he is horrible in pre-season I guess? 

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

38 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

The market shifted. Many other players have made similar demands, there's nothing confusing about it. You answered your question. The price yesterday isnt the price today. I doubt Kenny is going to hold out into the season or make unnecessary 'waves' but nothing confusing here. This isnt about more money, it's about perceived FAIR value. It's about maximizing your value while you can....especially when YOU noted that Rodgers was breathing down his neck which in reality means that Kenny (past this season) might have moved from untouchable to Anthony Walker territory.

I did not note anything, you may be referring to another poster with a similar name.  Also the confusion still is there for the fact of knowing the cons of front loading ones contract.  From what I said from the beginning, it’s a little confusing for me.  If it’s not confusing to you, that is fine.  As for me, it is 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

PFF doesn't publish grades differentiated by position, at least not that I can see. 

I know….  I have a basic PFF subscription, but wondered if you knew perhaps from a different source?   Thanks anyway. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Agree, but why sign one then if it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on?

Yep, why even sign a contract, then want to complain about it 2 years later?? That would be like me doing security work and I signed a 3 year contract for 100,000 a year but then after a year doing it saying I deserve 200,000 a year or I won't protect my business. Honor your contract - you agreed too it. After your contract is over go get more if you want to move on.

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

That's reasonable, but I seriously doubt this is what Kenny wants when he's doing that "hold in". His contract for this year is all but guaranteed. What has to happen for him to not get his money for this season? He can tear an Achilles/ACL/break a leg tomorrow and the Colts will still not cut him and will give him the full salary he's owed this year, IMO. They'd want to see him back next year... which pretty much guarantees the second year too. 

I think you’ve made some assumptions there, some leaps of faith.  Maybe you’re right, but I wouldn’t bet on it, especially about the second year if he got hurt this year.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im sorry, but win me a super bowl, THEN gripe is not a serious answer.   It’s a fans answer.   The owners might love you for it, but there isn’t a player who would take that seriously.   Because every year players from 31 teams don’t win the super bowl.  So none of those guys get to gripe?  Come on now? 

All I say is honor your contract, he agreed too it. 

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Win me a SB then gripe. If he signs with someone like the Texans or Jets he will be no name. Win something is all I ask as a fan. He is being paid big money, why gripe? Take care of business and stop being a cry baby, I love Kenny Moore by the way so this bothers me. I think he is good.

Yeah, i've made the counter to these points all thru this thread, your argument doesnt hold water at all.

 

Your premise is totally false (whether you mean it to be or not). He isn't griping. He is asking to be paid fair value. Free men all over the world do that everyday, in all works of life. So lets correct the language, he isnt griping. This is how many negotiations in the league go today, it is accepted business practice whether you realize it or not, that is a FACT.

 

If he goes to the Texans, he can 100% still make the pro bowl there. Ditto the Jets. You think he will suddenly become a nobody? The player who we've all hyped would suddenly become nobody because he left our team? That sounds like a scorned 14 year old girl argument. All emotion, no logic. Logic and fact is he is a pro bowler, he is a guy Belichick said he regrets letting leave, yet all of a sudden he'll be bad? How is that going to work? The air works for him only in Indy? This isnt Donte Moncrief. It's Kenny Moore.

 

He is taking care of business. The fact that you don't understand how the NFL business works isnt his fault. 

 

I know you love Kenny Moore. It's the fact that a player you claim you love is the same one you want to get paid like he is the 27th best at his position. And if he was the 27th best, you wouldn't love him. Your love is conditional. 

[Solid84]

14 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

You're putting his demands in perspective. I totally get it brother. I am asking YOU if you feel privileged and lucky because there're many whose cards meant they are born citizens of other countries. Good, hardworking people YET their lives are not worth your life according to the facts. Do you feel privileged? Are you turning down chances or fighting so that they get a fair shot? Are you demanding that their nations get an equal chance at the table on international affairs? Now, THAT is an abstract thought, and the perspective isnt that far removed from the logical argument you're making. 

 

Need? Seriously, you're tugging on the emotional heartstrings while presenting no facts that acknowledge the reality of the world, please don't do that. Is every dollar you have being used optimally? Are you sending your extra change to poor folks around the world? It's not like you're in need like those poor suckers after all. I mean, i',m sure you can buy Colts gear, and i'm sure you pay for the internet and x, y, z while those folks can barely stick a meal a day in their belly, and they certainly don't get the chance or luxury of being on the internet arguing NFL football. So....why are you not giving away more? Are you going to trade places with those people? See how that argument comes off? It doesnt make sense, does it?

 

You're one of my fave forumers man. You're also closing your mind on this. The business of the NFL is what it is, you aint gotta agree with it of course, but if you feel strongly enough, you can walk. Seriously. One day, i'm going to cut this addiction out because i share some of your feelings but the fact is i aint doing it today and because of folks like me...and you, the NFL is king, and the players who play in it must be smart enough to capitalize on it. Good for them. They deserve it given how much the owners actually make.

To the first paragraph. Please don’t go there. You don’t know me, what I do for a living and how I live my life. 

  I live in a 1st world country and I know very well I’m extremely privileged to do so. In my professional life I work to help others who’ve been less fortunate than me in life and privately I make sure everyday to remind my boys how lucky they are to have their damned Ipads and the like *grumble*. I do charity work several times a year. I KNOW I’m privileged and try to give back to the world as best I can.

  Also, how this went from me saying NFL players are privileged to me not equating other peoples lives to my own and having to fight for other nations’ rights I have no idea and I want nothing to do with it. 
 

Second paragraph. You’re getting out of line here… I’m not a dollar millionaire and thus I can’t PAY like one - I do charity work instead. 

  My guess is this is about him wanting more guaranteed money and my point is he already made 8-9 million in signing bonus. If he wants to get paid he can let his play do the talking and make another 6+ million. Instead he’s crying about wanting guarantees so he doesn’t have to perform. And if he gets injured? He makes what he makes that season and starts getting ready for the next season - he signed the contract. 
 

Like I said to another poster - I watch football because I like watching football. Doesn’t mean I have to accept listening to millionaires whining about wanting more money.
  This started with me stating my opinion on it, which I’m pretty sure is the point of the forum, and yes it differs from a lot of other posters’ opinion, but I’m not going to apologise for it. 

 

[TaylorStillTruckedYou]

I feel like everytime I make a post, someone comes at me after mistaking me for someone else

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is a good point.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah, i've made the counter to these points all thru this thread, your argument doesnt hold water at all.

 

Your premise is totally false (whether you mean it to be or not). He isn't griping. He is asking to be paid fair value. Free men all over the world do that everyday, in all works of life. So lets correct the language, he isnt griping. This is how many negotiations in the league go today, it is accepted business practice whether you realize it or not, that is a FACT.

 

If he goes to the Texans, he can 100% still make the pro bowl there. Ditto the Jets. You think he will suddenly become a nobody? The player who we've all hyped would suddenly become nobody because he left our team? That sounds like a scorned 14 year old girl argument. All emotion, no logic. Logic and fact is he is a pro bowler, he is a guy Belichick said he regrets letting leave, yet all of a sudden he'll be bad? How is that going to work? The air works for him only in Indy? This isnt Donte Moncrief. It's Kenny Moore.

 

He is taking care of business. The fact that you don't understand how the NFL business works isnt his fault. 

 

I know you love Kenny Moore. It's the fact that a player you claim you love is the same one you want to get paid like he is the 27th best at his position. And if he was the 27th best, you wouldn't love him. Your love is conditional. 

He is a good player but if he went to a team like the Texans he would not sniff a Pro Bowl, don't kid yourself. You sign a contract, you agree to it, play it out and be good or great. He isn't the QB or someone like Taylor  .

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is a good point.

 

 

TY, I hope. I would love it 

[Solid84]

3 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is a good point.

 

 

Not really the same thing though. People wanted Bradburry because they felt we had a need for another corner. Paying Moore doesn’t change that. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's reasonable, but I seriously doubt this is what Kenny wants when he's doing that "hold in". His contract for this year is all but guaranteed. What has to happen for him to not get his money for this season? He can tear an Achilles/ACL/break a leg tomorrow and the Colts will still not cut him and will give him the full salary he's owed this year, IMO. They'd want to see him back next year... which pretty much guarantees the second year too... unless he is horrible in pre-season I guess? 

 

This is complicated, but a team can terminate the player's contract, and he would still be paid under the Injury Protection rules of the CBA, but the team could also split the remaining pay over the course of several years. There are also injury settlements, and a bunch of other stuff that we never really hear about because it's boring to everyone except contract nerds like me.

 

And while it's not likely to happen, the Colts could simply cut Moore right now, for no reason, and they would not owe him any more money. 

[Colt.45]

5 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

To the first paragraph. Please don’t go there. You don’t know me, what I do for a living and how I live my life. 

  I live in a 1st world country and I know very well I’m extremely privileged to do so. In my professional life I work to help others who’ve been less fortunate than me in life and privately I make sure everyday to remind my boys how lucky they are to have their damned Ipads and the like *grumble*. I do charity work several times a year. I KNOW I’m privileged and try to give back to the world as best I can.

  Also, how this went from me saying NFL players are privileged to me not equating other peoples lives to my own and having to fight for other nations’ rights I have no idea and I want nothing to do with it. 
 

Second paragraph. You’re getting out of line here… I’m not a dollar millionaire and thus I can’t PAY like one - I do charity work instead. 

  My guess is this is about him wanting more guaranteed money and my point is he already made 8-9 million in signing bonus. If he wants to get paid he can let his play do the talking and make another 6+ million. Instead he’s crying about wanting guarantees so he doesn’t have to perform. And if he gets injured? He makes what he makes that season and starts getting ready for the next season - he signed the contract. 
 

Like I said to another poster - I watch football because I like watching football. Doesn’t mean I have to accept listening to millionaires whining about wanting more money.
  This started with me stating my opinion on it, which I’m pretty sure is the point of the forum, and yes it differs from a lot of other posters’ opinion, but I’m not going to apologise for it. 

 

See how this feels to you? Those feelings that you are expressing are 100% valid. Now, you need to understand that those feelings are not dissimilar to the young man's feelings. Do you know what Kenny Moore has gone through in life to get to where he is? A position that many desire and cant yet he got there and yet you feel empowered to knock him for asking to get paid fair wage according to the conventions of the league he is in? How is that fair???

 

This isnt about being a millionaire. He's not robbing us on Wall Street. He is asking to be paid what society has decided is fair to him. How exactly THAT becomes whining is on you. He is acting rationally. You don't like that aspect of football, cool but it is what is and again YOU contribute to it. Own that part.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

I did not note anything, you may be referring to another poster with a similar name.  Also the confusion still is there for the fact of knowing the cons of front loading ones contract.  From what I said from the beginning, it’s a little confusing for me.  If it’s not confusing to you, that is fine.  As for me, it is 

I have not followed this discussion, but if you like, here are the cons of front loading a contract….

 

From a team stand point, the con is that teams are typically tight against the cap and since the cap typically goes up every year, you typically want to put more money in the outgoing years when there’s more cap space. 
 

From a players standpoint point, if you’re an older player front loading is typically good.  You don’t know how many years you have left and you’re getting more money in your pocket sooner rather than later.  But if you’re a younger player, they typically want to make more and more as they get better and the cap is going up so teams can offer more.  Front loading is ok, everyone likes getting more money sooner, but then you’re setting up to do a potential fight with the team who may not be willing to re-do the deal.  What happens if the player has been injured or comes off a down year?  And now wants more?    Well..   Kenny’s deal wasn’t front loaded, it has gotten bigger, but you see where Moore is now wanting to re-do his deal coming off his worst season.  Things get complicated.  
 

Don’t know if this helps, but hope so….

[Colt.45]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He is a good player but if he went to a team like the Texans he would not sniff a Pro Bowl, don't kid yourself. You sign a contract, you agree to it, play it out and be good or great. He isn't the QB or someone like Taylor  .

Yeah, that isnt how NFL contracts work. Educate yourself or ask for help with that education. You're in the wrong here.

[EastStreet]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, this is typical, rabid fan, bitter nonsense, turning hard on a player using the only leverage he has to maximize his earning potential. 

 

The Colts could cut Kenny Moore tomorrow, and pay him absolutely nothing more. If Moore is practicing in OTAs and blows an Achilles or an ACL, the Colts would IR him and force an injury split into his contract, reducing his 2022 earnings. Let's not talk about the sanctity of the contract, when that sanctity is one-sided. 

 

It's also pretty extreme to undermine a player's entire career because he had a couple bad games at the end of the season. Kenny Moore and Carson Wentz are not the same guy just because they both played poorly in the last two games. 

 

And really, as was mentioned earlier, this is the weakest "holdout" I've ever seen. First, it's not a holdout because OTAs are voluntary -- another area where players get screwed in public perception, because if they choose not to show up to a non-mandatory team event then the fans and media turn on them, even though it's the players risking their career/health, especially with no guaranteed money on their contracts (like Moore right now).

 

Second, the dude is actually present, and just not practicing on the field. Aaron Rodgers -- who flamed out in the playoffs again, and who has held his team hostage the last two offseasons, and who signed a massive contract to make him the highest paid player in the league -- is literally on the golf course as I type this, advancing his own agenda, while his teammates are at OTAs. 

 

And if the Colts tell Kenny Moore 'no, prove it, and we'll talk,' that's fine. It would not be the first time a team told a player with two years remaining on his contract that they weren't going to talk about a new deal. There are lots of ways they can handle this, and I'm sure they've weighed them out. Just because he wants a new deal doesn't mean they have to capitulate, and I'd be fine with them taking a hardline there. 

 

What I'm not fine with is people acting like he's "wrong" for making his wishes known, in literally the only way he can.

 

"Wrong" or "right" is a subjective term in this situation. And saying this is only way to make his wishes known is literally not accurate. A simple conversation with the FO is a way. A Tweet or interview is a way. He's choosing a soft holdout with 2 years left on his contract, which is a public display, and only one of several ways to make his wishes known.

 

I'd add that your comments are pretty one sided here. Yes, some deals are one sided. Some deals are not. Some players get underpaid based on their performance, some overpaid. Did Indy ask for a refund after it gave Brissett and unneeded raise and extension, only to have him sit the bench the next season? Nope.

 

So sorry, not going to feel sorry for the guy. He's made 23ish M in 5 seasons as a UDFA. I have to think that's pretty darn good for a UDFA, no? Frankly it's a weird time for him to do this. 2 years left on his contract, and after a year where he underperformed. And realistically, yes, he's a good slot CB or NB, but he showed he's not very good at all when taken vertical, or when asked to fill in at outside corner.

 

And it wasn't just a couple bad games at the end of the year. Teams picked on him last season, and he had ups and down throughout the year. He gave up the most receptions of any player in the NFL last season, was targeted 2nd most, and was top 10 in both yards and TDs allowed. So just maybe, he should have focused on improving this year, and waited till next off season (when he'd be in a contract year) to start the public leveraging. And frankly, I'd like to see how he plays in Bradley's new scheme before a raise/extension. 

 

And since when is simply asking that someone honor a contract with 2 years left, "rabid fan" or "bitter nonsense", especially after a year of decline. That's more than a little harsh given this is an area where folks will have differing opinions. It's a business.... 

 

 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

Not really the same thing though. People wanted Bradburry because they felt we had a need for another corner. Paying Moore doesn’t change that. 

 

You're missing the point. When you want a FA, it's 'pay the man, Ballard, stop being cheap!' But when it's our own player who feels like his contract doesn't match his real value, it's 'shut up and play out your contract!' There's a double standard there.

[throwing BBZ]

 

  Our D is going to be significantly different when we play cover 3, and our pass rush will be much improved IMO.
  I am not exactly sure if Kenny will be used more like he was when he earned being the highest paid slot, or if he can play at a consistently high level in the new D.

 I want to think he can, but i'm not sure today that he can't be replaced by someone already on the roster without a significant drop in play.
 Seems like guaranteeing him much of his salary and adding easily attainable bonuses is what will happen. But i do not believe he has earned more than a smaller rather than large bonus pkg. 
  I can forsee the possibility that it may become in our and his best interest that he moves on after this season. He will hopefully play well.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This is complicated, but a team can terminate the player's contract, and he would still be paid under the Injury Protection rules of the CBA, but the team could also split the remaining pay over the course of several years. There are also injury settlements, and a bunch of other stuff that we never really hear about because it's boring to everyone except contract nerds like me.

 

And while it's not likely to happen, the Colts could simply cut Moore right now, for no reason, and they would not owe him any more money. 

They can but why would they? What's the chance they would? Even if he suffers a major injury. IMO it's close to 0. Definitely not high enough to stage a "hold in" over. That's why I don't think that's what he wants. He wants more money IMO... more money and more years most probably.