Kenny Moore absent from OTAs, wants new contract

[luv_pony_express]

18 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Sure. I agree with you BUT that is not how it works in reality and his actions are considered SOFT and actually an honorable way to handle the business side while still being there for his team. That is how the business side works.  

 

It’s how it should work.  That’s my entire point.

 

It’s a simple maxim, but a very important one:  a deal is a deal.

 

Players should be able expect that teams will live up to the deal they signed.  And vice versa.

 

Kenny signed a 4 year extension.   There are upsides and downsides to a longish contract - and one of the risks for players is that the market will shoot up or that they’ll outplay the value.

 

The proper time to address that is when the contract is up.  You can say “that’s not how it’s done.”  But it’s how it should be done, especially by people with integrity.  And I’ve generally believed that Kenny has that.

 

 

[Blueblood23]

59 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

See how this feels to you? Those feelings that you are expressing are 100% valid. Now, you need to understand that those feelings are not dissimilar to the young man's feelings. Do you know what Kenny Moore has gone through in life to get to where he is? A position that many desire and cant yet he got there and yet you feel empowered to knock him for asking to get paid fair wage according to the conventions of the league he is in? How is that fair???

 

This isnt about being a millionaire. He's not robbing us on Wall Street. He is asking to be paid what society has decided is fair to him. How exactly THAT becomes whining is on you. He is acting rationally. You don't like that aspect of football, cool but it is what is and again YOU contribute to it. Own that part.

This is what’s wrong in society today. No one is accountable for their actions. Moore signs a contract and is happy. Now what he’s done and said are not true. He wanted a long term deal and the Colts overpaid him at the time. Times change and now Moore doesn’t like what he said and did regarding signing the contract. He should do the right thing and man up to what he signed and wanted. Hard to trust someone when they say one thing and think something else. You and I will just have to disagree on this. 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Fair is where you get cotton candy. It's also how player's and people decide their wages. Get with the times.

 

Cap doesnt matter. If the Colts fielding a good team meant they were going to cheat a player and the player responded then the idiocy is 100% on the Colts side. So yeah congrats, maybe this team is indeed run by dunces if they dare argue about the cap.

 

I present FACTS. You present emotions.

 

Good talk. 

I've been nothing but facts.

You fail to understand or weigh the simplest factors like cap management, to a team's success.

Acting like Kenny is getting cheating, sounds very emotional... lol..  

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

I really don't see how folks can talk of honor on the one hand, then with the other hand want to deny a player the right to argue for a fair wage according to the standards of the league.

 

If any single one of you arguing about honor was ever dealt with in real life like you're suggesting these players should be dealt with, you would be calling down fire and brimstone. I hope it never happens to you but if/when it does, please come here and share it so we can all publicly deride you for your lack of honor. 

 

The business of the NFL in 2022 works this way. Not by the standards of 1980, or 1990, or 2000, or 2020 even. This is standard business practice and you should actually be proud of the character of the player because he is handling this actually well by today's standards. He is around and being active. He is being a leader. 

I’d like to point out this is not what I’m arguing. I’m saying he’s BEING paid a fair wage and disagree with him being worth more than his contract currently. 

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, luv_pony_express said:

It’s how it should work.  That’s my entire point.

 

It’s a simple maxim, but a very important one:  a deal is a deal.

 

Players should be able expect that teams will live up to the deal they signed.  And vice versa.

 

Kenny signed a 4 year extension.   There are upsides and downsides to a longish contract - and one of the risks for players is that the market will shoot up or that they’ll outplay the value.

 

The proper time to address that is when the contract is up.  You can say “that’s not how it’s done.”  But it’s how it should be done, especially by people with integrity.  And I’ve generally believed that Kenny has that.

 

 

I agree. I also believe in the days when we could shake hands as men on a deal, and that was that. That was honor. But in 2022, that is not how business works in life in most places in our world, and in the NFL. We can wish it was but the reality is different from our dreams and wishes. Santa isnt real so there's no reason Kenny should act like he is.

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

This is what’s wrong in society today. No one is accountable for their actions. Moore signs a contract and is happy. Now what he’s done and said are not true. He wanted a long term deal and the Colts overpaid him at the time. Times change and now Moore doesn’t like what he said and did regarding signing the contract. He should do the right thing and man up to what he signed and wanted. Hard to trust someone when they say one thing and think something else. You and I will just have to disagree on this. 

Colts had a contract with Peyton Manning and cut him when they felt he was bad business. The greatest player in the team's history. He got cut. The club will act in its interest and the players MUST act in theirs, arguing otherwise is not acknowledging the facts of NFL business.

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Once you sign a contract you should honor it, it is a contract. If a player just dominates like within 2 years of his contract and wins a SB then he can spout and say I need a bigger contract. Where was Kenny Moore at Jacks?

I really don't mind holdouts in a contract year.

Making noise with two years left though, especially after a substantial performance drop, is a different thing. 

It wasn't just Jax. He had some very bad games early and mid season as well. He wasn't good at all vs Seattle, LAR, and SF. I think he was burnt toast in some early mid division games (TN and/or Houston) as well. He picked things up a bit down the stretch, then got killed in the last two games again. 

[jbaron04]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks.   I did not know the Alexander info.  Appreciate it.   The Kenny info I knew.   Do you roughly know the difference in Moore’s grades from the slit to playing outside?   Roughly-ish?   

I don’t know the exact grade but I’ll tell you this Kenny was targeted 125 Times and gave up 87 completions both were number one in the league. Well stats are stats …. The eye test says when ever we went against a good slot or Wr Kenny Moore got cooked. One of the plays that will stick with me forever is when hunter renfrow cooked Moore at the end of that raiders game  

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Kenny Moore is not doing a single thing that's against the same NFL rules. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Stop trying to cheat the player.

lol... At this point, no he's not breaking any rules because OTAs are voluntary.

So... He can do whatever he wants, but how exactly is he being cheated?

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colt.45 said:

I agree. I also believe in the days when we could shake hands as men on a deal, and that was that. That was honor. But in 2022, that is not how business works in life in most places in our world, and in the NFL. We can wish it was but the reality is different from our dreams and wishes. Santa isnt real so there's no reason Kenny should act like he is.

I will keep it on our average people. I sign a contract with Miller for 50,000 a year to serve them beer for 4 years. We are all happy, then a year later I complain because I think I am worth 60,000 a year which is plain dumb. Sign a contract, stick with it. He signed it so play it out. No sugar coating it, doesn't matter what your worth, it is a contract.

[Colt.45]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I’d like to point out this is not what I’m arguing. I’m saying he’s BEING paid a fair wage and disagree with him being worth more than his contract currently. 

No, your argument that he is being paid fairly isn't the sole argument you're making. You're also saying he is greedy though not directly. You're also saying he's not allowed to negotiate when things change even though that is the standard of practice in the league. Essentially you're saying he should act like a naive child.

 

His contract's fairness will be determined by his agent and the GM and his staff. That's not for you to decide. And guess what, the league works in a way where the kid will be paid fairly whether you like it or not. This is not my desire, this is me telling you how it works. You can agree or not, but you're going to see it work out EXACTLY that way. Then we'll all go back to wishing X player wasnt on our team and close our eyes when that player gets cut....whether or not his 5 years contract was up or not.

 

Brother, for the sake of all we have debated today, i beg you to understand this part....NFL CONTRACTS ARE FUNGIBLE, A PLAYER OR CLUB WILL TEAR IT UP IN A HEARTBEAT WHEN THE ODDS ARE IN THEIR FAVOR. THAT IS THE NFL STANDARD OF 2022. 

[luv_pony_express]

8 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Colts had a contract with Peyton Manning and cut him when they felt he was bad business. The greatest player in the team's history. He got cut. The club will act in its interest and the players MUST act in theirs, arguing otherwise is not acknowledging the facts of NFL business.

Yeah, but they didn’t breach the contract.  They didn’t ask out of the contract.   Everything they did was entirely within the terms of both their contract with Peyton and the CBA.

 

In short, they held up their end of the bargain.

 

Again, I know that KM3 hasn’t violated his contract at this point.  I know that he was still there.

 

But if this carries on and he does violate his contract, if he holds out of mandatory activities, if (God forbid) he refuses to play, then he will be guilty of not holding up his end of the bargain.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

lol... At this point, no he's not breaking any rules because OTAs are voluntary.

So... He can do whatever he wants, but how exactly is he being cheated?

 

YOU are arguing he shouldn't negotiate fair wages according to the league STANDARD. That is an argument that he should sit back and be cheated of money.

 

What you think is fair is not what matters, nobody in the NFL gives a crap about your opinion. Same goes for mine. What is fair is what the player's agent and the GM decide. THAT is standard business practice in the NFL in 2022. The fact that you don't know that is your problem not the player's. 

[luv_pony_express]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I really don't mind holdouts in a contract year.

Making noise with two years left though, especially after a substantial performance drop, is a different thing. 

It wasn't just Jax. He had some very bad games early and mid season as well. He wasn't good at all vs Seattle, LAR, and SF. I think he was burnt toast in some early mid division games (TN and/or Houston) as well. He picked things up a bit down the stretch, then got killed in the last two games again. 

Personally, I don’t even care how his performance this past season was.  To me, that’s immaterial.

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, luv_pony_express said:

Yeah, but they didn’t breach the contract.  They didn’t ask out of the contract.   Everything they did was entirely within the terms of both their contract with Peyton and the CBA.

 

In short, they held up their end of the bargain.

 

Again, I know that KM3 hasn’t violated his contract at this point.  I know that he was still there.

 

But if this carries on and he does violate his contract, if he holds out of mandatory activities, if (God forbid) he refuses to play, then he will l be guilty of not holding up his end of the bargain.

Exactly. Kenny has not violated anything. Kenny is going about this the best way possible. If my son played in the league, id want him negotiating like this. That's why you've not heard anything negative from anyone who understands the business.

 

Holding out? We'll cross that bridge if it gets there. He has been on board so far and well within his rights.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, Colt.45 said:

YOU are arguing he shouldn't negotiate fair wages according to the league STANDARD. That is an argument that he should sit back and be cheated of money.

 

What you think is fair is not what matters, nobody in the NFL gives a crap about your opinion. Same goes for mine. What is fair is what the player's agent and the GM decide. THAT is standard business practice in the NFL in 2022. The fact that you don't know that is your problem not the player's. 

Fair wages?! The guy is making millions to play a GAME

[DEColtsLover36]

[Colt.45]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Fair wages?! The guy is making millions to play a GAME

Yeah? Wanna go play instead of him? Millions to play a game because people like you and me are fanatics. It's our fault not his.

I don't see you jumping to the curling forum, or arguing about who cleans toilets the best, or does the best trash collecting in the state of Indiana. You gonna watch trash collecting for 3 hours on Sunday instead of football? No? Then you don't get to scream that the guys get paid what our society has decided to pay them. Kenny Moore didnt make the damn rules folks.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

All I say is honor your contract, he agreed too it. 

Contracts on all 32 teams routinely get re-done.   Now that our roster has matured, meaning the 18 class is looking for their next deals, contracts get reworked.   This is NFL 101 and you know it.   The difference is now it’s happening to the Colts and you don’t like it.  
 

As contract holdouts go, this is almost nothing.  So mild.  Maybe a 3 on a 1 to 10 scale.  It might go up, but I believe Ballard and his team will resolve this.  

[EastStreet]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

YOU are arguing he shouldn't negotiate fair wages according to the league STANDARD. That is an argument that he should sit back and be cheated of money.

 

What you think is fair is not what matters, nobody in the NFL gives a crap about your opinion. Same goes for mine. What is fair is what the player's agent and the GM decide. THAT is standard business practice in the NFL in 2022. The fact that you don't know that is your problem not the player's. 

There is no "right" to market value or league standard in the NFL. If there was, then there would not be standardized rookie contracts, and we'd have refunds for players who got overpaid lol...

 

Did we get a refund from Brissett after giving him a raise/extension, and then he got demoted the next season lol..... We paid him far more than his market value... 

 

But hey, let's keep it factual lol.... You want to talk market value, or pay vs performance levels????

OK... Kenny was the 25th highest paid CB last season. He was graded as the 37th best CB.... 

So his performance / pay situation equated to him being overpaid about 3M..... 

 

 

 

 

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

There is no "right" to market value or league standard in the NFL. If there was, then there would not be standardized rookie contracts, and we'd have refunds for players who got overpaid lol...

 

Did we get a refund from Brissett after giving him a raise/extension, and then he got demoted the next season lol..... We paid him far more than his market value... 

 

But hey, let's keep it factual lol.... You want to talk market value, or pay vs performance levels????

OK... Kenny was the 25th highest paid CB last season. He was graded as the 37th best CB.... 

So his performance / pay situation equated to him being overpaid about 3M..... 

 

 

 

 

If we paid more than fair market value to Brissett then that's on us. I argued then that Brissett should not have got paid that because there was no obligation on our part. Now if he decided he wanted to ask for more money then, you'd best believe the Colts would have shredded his contract and got a scrub QB off the streets. It didnt go that way but it does in NFL business every day. Players get cut all the time, stop acting as if their contracts don't matter. You are not here talking of honor then.

 

Yeah, again you are bringing some stats from PFF or wherever, and you think you're the man. Well good for you, but Kenny Moore's agents will have arguments way stronger than yours, and the dude will get paid whether in Indy or elsewhere, as long as he's alive and plays according to a certain standard, that's a fact that will unfold as i've said whether you like it or not. Your stats don't matter one inch. And by the way, if you brought that argument to the table as the Colts, you'd lose every single player in the building. Every. Single. One.

 

 

[Solid84]

4 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

No, your argument that he is being paid fairly isn't the sole argument you're making. You're also saying he is greedy though not directly. You're also saying he's not allowed to negotiate when things change even though that is the standard of practice in the league. Essentially you're saying he should act like a naive child.

 

His contract's fairness will be determined by his agent and the GM and his staff. That's not for you to decide. And guess what, the league works in a way where the kid will be paid fairly whether you like it or not. This is not my desire, this is me telling you how it works. You can agree or not, but you're going to see it work out EXACTLY that way. Then we'll all go back to wishing X player wasnt on our team and close our eyes when that player gets cut....whether or not his 5 years contract was up or not.

 

Brother, for the sake of all we have debated today, i beg you to understand this part....NFL CONTRACTS ARE FUNGIBLE, A PLAYER OR CLUB WILL TEAR IT UP IN A HEARTBEAT WHEN THE ODDS ARE IN THEIR FAVOR. THAT IS THE NFL STANDARD OF 2022. 

To the first paragraph. I do think he’s greedy, but then I think that of most NFL players and athletes in general. Their salaries are a function of supply and demand as you’ve said earlier and I accept that, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. But even given I accept how it works I still think he’s greedy because I don’t think he’s worth more than his contract currently. This is me looking at it based on his performance last year and the fact that we don’t know how important and good he’ll be in Bradley’s scheme. 
  It’s also a timing thing. I have no problem with him, or any other player, making a statement to get paid in a contract year. But he has 2 years left on his contract and is coming off a season where he underperformed and was a big part in us losing out on the playoffs. 
 

I don’t know exactly what the point was with the second paragraph. OF COURSE it’s not my decision to make?? It’s none our decisions to make. Doesn’t mean we can’t have an opinion on it though. 
 

A player could have a fully guaranteed contract signed one day and start advocating for a new better contract the next. It’s fully within his right. I’m not arguying that and never have. I wouldn’t agree with it though, but that’s MY OPINION. That’s why we’re on this forum, my friend, to discuss our opinions. 
 

I’m right and you’re wrong though lol.

[luv_pony_express]

19 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Fair wages?! The guy is making millions to play a GAME

I’m not real big on using the word “fair” in this context.  It’s a loaded term and completely subjective.

 

That said, there really is such a thing as “the going rate” and I think an argument can be made that KM3 is paid below that.  The fact that this number is millions, though, doesn’t really matter here.

 

So my frustration with him is not that he already makes oodles of money.  I don’t begrudge anybody making what they’re worth, whatever that number is.

 

My frustration with him is that he is apparently trying to get out from under a contract that he signed…because he feels like it’s no longer a good deal.

 

This sometimes happens in my business - and it never reflects well on the person trying to welch on the bargain they struck.  It’s just really bad form.  And I’m disappointed in him.

[EastStreet]

Just now, Colt.45 said:

If we paid more than fair market value to Brissett then that's on us. I argued then that Brissett should not have got paid that because there was no obligation on our part. Now if he decided he wanted to ask for more money then, you'd best believe the Colts would have shredded his contract and got a scrub QB off the streets. It didnt go that way but it does in NFL business every day. Players get cut all the time, stop acting as if their contracts don't matter. You are not here talking of honor then.

 

Yeah, again you are bringing some stats from PFF or wherever, and you think you're the man. Well good for you, but Kenny Moore's agents will have arguments way stronger than yours, and the dude will get paid whether in Indy or elsewhere, as long as he's alive and plays according to a certain standard, that's a fact that will unfold as i've said whether you like it or not. Your stats don't matter one inch. And by the way, if you brought that argument to the table as the Colts, you'd lose every single player in the building. Every. Single. One.

Oh... so it's more than OK for a player to get overpaid, or not perform to his pay level, because of a contract, but it's not OK if a player gets paid less than his performance level because of a contract... ... lol... Do you even hear yourself... 

 

Kenny's agents will play up his history, and his faux-Pro-Bowl selection last season. He was simply bad in several games. Again, you don't have to look at grades. He gave up the most receptions in the NFL last year. Teams circled his name (he was the second most targeted DB in the league), and was top 10 in both yards and TDs allowed. He was burnt toast in several games. 

 

You seem very emotion when provided simple facts..... You can't debate facts, but seem to rely only on subjective opinion and constant pivots. 

 

Like I said earlier, good talk lol.. No reason to continue... 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, TaylorStillTruckedYou said:

I guess I worded it bad.  I'm not confused on front loaded contracts, but confused why Kenny is deciding to have an issue now when we're finally back on track as a team having 2 more years left on his contract.  

 

I appreciate your explanation though.  I love Kenny...I guess I'd give him 12/yr mil and call it a day

Understood….    As for Kenny, two issues.   First, he has zero guaranteed dollars.  He’s exposed playing in a violent sport where the longer you play, the more likely you are to get hurt. 
 

Second, the cornerback market has exploded, even for zone corners.  So by the current market, KM is badly under paid.  Even coming off his poorest year, if he were a free agent, he’d be signed to a larger contract.   
 

I think there is a path for both sides to take.  I’m curious to see how this plays out.   Sorry for any other misunderstanding.  

[Colt.45]

4 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

To the first paragraph. I do think he’s greedy, but then I think that of most NFL players and athletes in general. Their salaries are a function of supply and demand as you’ve said earlier and I accept that, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. But even given I accept how it works I still think he’s greedy because I don’t think he’s worth more than his contract currently. This is me looking at it based on his performance last year and the fact that we don’t know how important and good he’ll be in Bradley’s scheme. 
  It’s also a timing thing. I have no problem with him, or any other player, making a statement to get paid in a contract year. But he has 2 years left on his contract and is coming off a season where he underperformed and was a big part in us losing out on the playoffs. 
 

I don’t know exactly what the point was with the second paragraph. OF COURSE it’s not my decision to make?? It’s none our decisions to make. Doesn’t mean we can’t have an opinion on it though. 
 

A player could have a fully guaranteed contract signed one day and start advocating for a new better contract the next. It’s fully within his right. I’m not arguying that and never have. I wouldn’t agree with it though, but that’s MY OPINION. That’s why we’re on this forum, my friend, to discuss our opinions. 
 

I’m right and you’re wrong though lol.

Yeah, we are on the forum to discuss our opinions however when your opinion is that a player is greedy, you're going to be met with arguments countering such an opinion. You recognize that too don't you?

 

again, i have given you the solution. If you think players get too much then do something about it. Dont want to? Then keep whining about it and there'll be folks who'll also keep shoving the counterpoint into your face. That too is how forums work.

 

Hey, it's business, nothing personal.

[NewColtsFan]

47 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

I don’t know the exact grade but I’ll tell you this Kenny was targeted 125 Times and gave up 87 completions both were number one in the league. Well stats are stats …. The eye test says when ever we went against a good slot or Wr Kenny Moore got cooked. One of the plays that will stick with me forever is when hunter renfrow cooked Moore at the end of that raiders game  

Thanks.   But those are the 2021 numbers.   What about 20 and 19 and 18.   I’m pretty sure KM wasn’t nearly as bad.  21 was his worst season.   He had three excellent seasons before that. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Understood….    As for Kenny, two issues.   First, he has zero guaranteed dollars.  He’s exposed playing in a violent sport where the longer you play, the more likely you are to get hurt. 
 

Second, the cornerback market has exploded, even for zone corners.  So by the current market, KM is badly under paid.  Even coming off his poorest year, if he were a free agent, he’d be signed to a larger contract.   
 

I think there is a path for both sides to take.  I’m curious to see how this plays out.   Sorry for any other misunderstanding.  

He was the 25th highest paid CB in the league. And still easily a top 5 paid NB. 

He was graded as the 37th best CB in the league. His stats ranks were much worse than his grades. 

So, underpaid, I'd say no. But I do agree having no guarantees stink for him. 

[csmopar]

38 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah? Wanna go play instead of him? Millions to play a game because people like you and me are fanatics. It's our fault not his.

I don't see you jumping to the curling forum, or arguing about who cleans toilets the best, or does the best trash collecting in the state of Indiana. You gonna watch trash collecting for 3 hours on Sunday instead of football? No? Then you don't get to scream that the guys get paid what our society has decided to pay them. Kenny Moore didnt make the damn rules folks.

No but he signed the contract. It is what it is. When I joined the military, I didn’t get a cash signing bonus. That came out 3 weeks later... 20,000 dollars cash. I couldn’t tear up my contract or refuse to participate, volunteer or otherwise, to demand that I get the 20k that pretty much everyone else who I went to training with got...

[csmopar]

21 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

I’m not real big on using the word “fair” in this context.  It’s a loaded term and completely subjective.

 

That said, there really is such a thing as “the going rate” and I think an argument can be made that KM3 is paid below that.  The fact that this number is millions, though, doesn’t really matter here.

 

So my frustration with him is not that he already makes oodles of money.  I don’t begrudge anybody making what they’re worth, whatever that number is.

 

My frustration with him is that he is apparently trying to get out from under a contract that he signed…because he feels like it’s no longer a good deal.

 

This sometimes happens in my business - and it never reflects well on the person trying to welch on the bargain they struck.  It’s just really bad form.  And I’m disappointed in him.

Well said and that sums up how I feel on it too. 

[Colt.45]

10 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Oh... so it's more than OK for a player to get overpaid, or not perform to his pay level, because of a contract, but it's not OK if a player gets paid less than his performance level because of a contract... ... lol... Do you even hear yourself... I said very clearly that i didnt think Brissett should have got the raise. I said very clearly that players who underperform get cut everyday. Not sure what this point is meant to be. It literally is the opposite of anything i've said.

 

Kenny's agents will play up his history, and his faux-Pro-Bowl selection last season. He was simply bad in several games. Again, you don't have to look at grades. He gave up the most receptions in the NFL last year. Teams circled his name (he was the second most targeted DB in the league), and was top 10 in both yards and TDs allowed. He was burnt toast in several games. He could have been burnt to toast and bacon and it doesnt matter because that's not the argument his agents will make, and that's not what determines his value eventually. We're all here happy we got Yannick but quietly no one is saying anything about the fact that a top pass rusher is not getting paid fair value. You gonna argue we should give him a raise today? No? Then i see that you do understand how the business works but you only want it in your favor i.e. you're very happy to see folks get screwed yet you wanna talk honor. 

 

You seem very emotion when provided simple facts..... You can't debate facts, but seem to rely only on subjective opinion and constant pivots. Emotional? Well i could give two hoots about whether he gets paid. I do wonder about some of you though. You would happily see a man cheated and burned, and argue about laws, yet be happy to use those laws in your favor when the time comes. Emotion? Yeah, there's an emotion stinking this joint up, it's called confusion, and double standards and you're absolutely reeking of it.

 

Like I said earlier, good talk lol.. No reason to continue... Meh, it's hard to debate with people who see players as cattle. Use them as you like and get mad when they ask to negotiate. I'll gladly let this one drift away.

 

Bad points.

[Colt.45]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No but he signed the contract. It is what it is. When I joined the military, I didn’t get a cash signing bonus. That came out 3 weeks later... 20,000 dollars cash. I couldn’t tear up my contract or refuse to participate, volunteer or otherwise, to demand that I get the 20k that pretty much everyone else who I went to training with got...

Your military story is legit. You have lived a strong experience. However, it aint got diddly to do with this. What you got or didnt get is not germane to the issue at hand. Stop arguing about what gas prices were in 1981, that's got nothing to do with the price of feed in 2022 lol. Yeah, you're wondering what kinda statement that is right? Well, that's what your point is like. Your life experiences are valid and honored but aint got anything to do with this situation.

 

thanks for your service. And if you want to change the situation, you should stop watching the NFL and i promise you, that will change it FAST when enough folks do that. Not willing to do so? Well, the news aint good. The NFL will continue to pay more and more to players. When is enough going to be enough? Well, i just answered that. It'll stop when you and i and EastStreet and everyone else says screw this and go do something else with our time. Till then, this is what it is. You are part of that whether you like it or not. And the more you support the league, the bigger the rock will grow. 

[colts89]

Kenny is a pretty good slot corner. However he got burnt a ton whenever he has to play on the outside, which happened a decent amount last year due to injuries. If we can trade him for a higher draft pick, then I'd be cool with that. Not sure how he got a pro bowl nod last year tbh.

 

That being said, I will never talk badly on a player negotiating for a better contract, even if they hold out. They get a few years at this NFL thing (especially in their prime) so they should go for whatever they believe they are worth. 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Bad points.

 

lol.. YN is not getting screwed. People who sign contracts are not getting screwed. Nobody puts a gun to player's heads. 

 

You act like all players are getting screwed, yet teams who overpay aren't getting screwed. You say "it's on them"... Well it's on the player for signing a contract then lol...

 

I give zero Fs about what Kenny's agent's argument is. You can bet if Kenny was a top 10 graded CB last season, his agent would be singing it from bullhorn. Fact is, Kenny didn't play well last season. His pay rank is greater than his performance rank. It's that simple. He's made 20+M in 5 years. He's set for life. He's not a victim, and he's not getting screwed. Very few are going to feel sorry for him lol.. 

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

Yeah, we are on the forum to discuss our opinions however when your opinion is that a player is greedy, you're going to be met with arguments countering such an opinion. You recognize that too don't you?

 

again, i have given you the solution. If you think players get too much then do something about it. Dont want to? Then keep whining about it and there'll be folks who'll also keep shoving the counterpoint into your face. That too is how forums work.

 

Hey, it's business, nothing personal.

First paragraph. Literally just said we’re here to discuss our opinions. 
 

Second paragraph. I could state my opinion in a more public place, but I’d just get attacked by sheep - lost cause.

I’m not whining about it, I’m stating my opinion, you’re the one getting personal. 
 

I’m done. Have nice evening. 

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He was the 25th highest paid CB in the league. And still easily a top 5 paid NB. 

He was graded as the 37th best CB in the league. His stats ranks were much worse than his grades. 

So, underpaid, I'd say no. But I do agree having no guarantees stink for him. 

Thanks.   Appreciate the good info.  
 

I don’t know if you saw an earlier post of mine?   I’d offer this compromise….  I’d fully guarantee Moore’s last two years, so he’s protected for his final $15 mill.   I would not offer any new money or more years.   And I’d tell him this can be re-visited in one year when he has only one more year left in his deal.   I think this is the path to compromise.  I don’t know if KM would accept this, but I’d hope so.  

[Colt.45]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

lol.. YN is not getting screwed. People who sign contracts are not getting screwed. Nobody puts a gun to player's heads. 

 

You act like all players are getting screwed, yet teams who overpay aren't getting screwed. You say "it's on them"... Well it's on the player for signing a contract then lol...

 

I give zero Fs about what Kenny's agent's argument is. You can bet if Kenny was a top 10 graded CB last season, his agent would be singing it from bullhorn. Fact is, Kenny didn't play well last season. His pay rank is greater than his performance rank. It's that simple. He's made 20+M in 5 years. He's set for life. He's not a victim, and he's not getting screwed. Very few are going to feel sorry for him lol.. 

 

That's the point that keeps flying over your head. It's a two way street. Players get screwed. Teams get screwed. And that's why there are negotiations. And Moore is negotiating. Whether you agree with how much players are paid, or how he is going about negotiating is once again irrelevant and a problem you need to fix for yourself. The player is not doing anything abnormal in the league today.

 

You don't give a crap about Kenny's agents argument and that's why you're here and not there. But Kenny's agents will bring a rock solid argument and the Colts will bring theirs. How the sausage gets made aint pretty, if you don't like it then don't watch this part of it. However if you're going to come make pronouncements about honor then your crap is getting called out 100% of the time by someone. Moore isnt asking you to feel sorry for him just as you aint feeling sorry for those worse off than you. That's irrelevant claptrap

[Colt.45]

11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

First paragraph. Literally just said we’re here to discuss our opinions. 
 

Second paragraph. I could state my opinion in a more public place, but I’d just get attacked by sheep - lost cause.

I’m not whining about it, I’m stating my opinion, you’re the one getting personal. 
 

I’m done. Have nice evening. 

Your opinion is yours. However you're commenting on a public issue and calling players names while you patronize their goods. You're not the good guy here. You're the one who is refusing to learn when the full book is being put in front of him.

 

Enjoy that evening. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

Thanks.   Appreciate the good info.  
 

I don’t know if you saw an earlier post of mine?   I’d offer this compromise….  I’d fully guarantee Moore’s last two years, so he’s protected for his final $15 mill.   I would not offer any new money or more years.   And I’d tell him this can be re-visited in one year when he has only one more year left in his deal.   I think this is the path to compromise.  I don’t know if KM would accept this, but I’d hope so.  

 

I'd have zero issue if we guaranteed all of 22, and offered to revisit first thing in the offseason. Not sure I'd guarantee all of 23. 

IIRC, he agreed to take all of his guarantees early ($9M), which is what both players and teams like to do. 

 

If he's not OK with that, I'd probably give his agent permission to seek a trade if he's that unhappy. And I'd set the trade value to whatever level equates to what his agent asked of the Colts. I think he'd definitely find interest, but I also think the external offers might not be what he thinks is his market value, especially after last season.

 

And just in general, I think the Colts have a decent position on which to stand. IMO, Rodgers, who played well as an outside CB, would probably play even better in the slot. That move would require us to start Facyson at CB2 (whom I'm not that high on), or find another FA. Harris or King might work as CB2. You could even bring back Rhodes on a cheap deal. 

[Indyfan4life]

54 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No but he signed the contract. It is what it is. When I joined the military, I didn’t get a cash signing bonus. That came out 3 weeks later... 20,000 dollars cash. I couldn’t tear up my contract or refuse to participate, volunteer or otherwise, to demand that I get the 20k that pretty much everyone else who I went to training with got...

So if you sign a contract with any job saying you’ll be paid X amount of money, then you shouldn’t be able to ask for a raise ever? 
 

What if you find out you’re being underpaid?

What if you take on more responsibility?

What if you mentor others? 
what if you over-perform? 
 

Nah. No reason to ask or demand more money for any reason, ever.