Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, w87r said:

As much as Im agaimst bringing in Wentz, ot os more about contract and our cap situation.

 

Not to concerned about his play, I am not to sure many QBs could do anything with the mess in Philly this year. Their OL is NAIA level this year with all the injuries.

Yeah it is his salary too that makes me cringe. He is not worth that.

[EastStreet]

Welp, the OL and surrounding talent excuse for Wentz took a big hit today. 

Hurts got sacked zero times, had 270ish total yards, a TD, and spread it around to 8 different pass catchers. 

And did it, while beating a team with a top 5 D.

 

Not saying Hurts is great, or the next big thing. Just saying he was able to win against one of the better team in the league, which is something Wentz has not been able to do.

[danlhart87]

Rivers once again proved today that he is worthy of being brought back 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

Rivers once again proved today that he is worthy of being brought back 

IMO, Rivers has looked good most of the year. He has had a few stinkers but who hasn't. Tom has even had a few. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Welp, the OL and surrounding talent excuse for Wentz took a big hit today. 

Hurts got sacked zero times, had 270ish total yards, a TD, and spread it around to 8 different pass catchers. 

And did it, while beating a team with a top 5 D.

 

Not saying Hurts is great, or the next big thing. Just saying he was able to win against one of the better team in the league, which is something Wentz has not been able to do.

I seen that Hurts beat the Saints, that just makes Wentz look worse. Great win by Hurts.

[GoColts8818]

28 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Rivers once again proved today that he is worthy of being brought back 

Yeah it’s going to be Rivers if he wants to play. That’s the only real question at this point and unless the Colts win a Super Bowl I think he’s going to want to play.  Heck Rivers runs on a different clock than some it wouldn’t shock me if he did win a Super Bowl and said he was having so much fun he was coming back.  

[EastStreet]

10 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I seen that Hurts beat the Saints, that just makes Wentz look worse. Great win by Hurts.

And looked pretty good doing it. I think Wentz was already a bit broken. Not sure how this will impact him. This could either wake him up, or break him even more. Regardless, Wentz's stock took a pretty good hit IMO.

[StatesmanN]

It appears as if Wentz's days in Philly are about over.

 

He can be had for a very low draft pick, albeit with a hefty price tag of $29.5 M a year.  Or a little more than what we pay Rivers.

 

This is a guy who during the Eagles Super Bowl run with Reich was an MVP candadite.

 

I say after this year you dump Rivers and Jacoby (thanks for a great year) and go with Wentz. 

 

You draft another QB as well and have Wentz, Eason, and your draft pick.

 

That gives the Colts 3 possible Qbs of the future, and you actually save money compared to this year.

 

Here is an article talking about it.

To me this is a NO BRAINER.  As in you do it today.

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/carson-wentz-was-once-a-promising-franchise-qb-hes-now-nfl-top-trade-storyline-050024420.html

 

[GoColts8818]

Assuming he wants to come back Rivers is going to be the QB next year.

[Mrfox]

 No, he will never be the same as he was before the injury. 
 

if he is willing to take a pay cut and a back seat, sure bring him in as a backup to Rivers

[danlhart87]

People need to get over this Wentz scenario. 

It would cripple the franchise!

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, StatesmanN said:

It appears as if Wentz's days in Philly are about over.

 

He can be had for a very low draft pick, albeit with a hefty price tag of $25 M a year.  Or what we pay Rivers.

 

This is a guy who during the Eagles Super Bowl run with Reich was an MVP candadite.

 

I say after this year you dump Rivers and Jacoby (thanks for a great year) and go with Wentz. 

 

You draft another QB as well and have Wentz, Eason, and your draft pick.

 

That gives the Colts 3 possible Qbs of the future, and you actually save money compared to this year.

 

Here is an article talking about it.

To me this is a NO BRAINER.  As in you do it today.

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/carson-wentz-was-once-a-promising-franchise-qb-hes-now-nfl-top-trade-storyline-050024420.html

 

Wentz makes far more than $25 mill per year.

 

And he’s not worth it.   He’s not even worth $25 at this point.  He may someday, but not today.  
 

The Colts are not going to trade draft pick(s) plus pay $25m or more to hope that Wentz is better than Rivers. 

I like Wentz.  But the risk reward ratio is completely out of whack. 

 

[StatesmanN]

7 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Assuming he wants to come back Rivers is going to be the QB next year.

I wouldn't be so sure.  Not if they can get Wentz.

And if you are right that is a very backwards way to think on the Colts part. 

 

Would you rather have a 40 year old QB you pay $25 M to?  Or a 28 year old QB that you pay $29.5 M to and who could be your qb of the future?

 

As much as I love the Colts, the Colts are not going to win a SB with Rivers.  Just a fact.  They are not beating KC in KC and next year Rivers is 40.  He is already pretty slow and weak armed. 

Could they win a SB with Wentz?  Not with how he is playing right now, but the ceiling and opportunity is much higher with Wentz than Rivers.

[StatesmanN]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

People need to get over this Wentz scenario. 

It would cripple the franchise!

Why.  Rivers and Wentz get paid the same amount basically. 

 

Wentz only has 2 more years left on his contract.  So if they brought Rivers back next year and didn't bring in Wentz?  You are essentially only paying for one more year of Wentz. 

 

They just paid Jacoby $20 M to do nothing basically.

 

They can afford 2 years of Wentz to see if he can get back to what he was.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, StatesmanN said:

I wouldn't be so sure.  Not if they can get Wentz.

And if you are right that is a very backwards way to think on the Colts part. 

 

Would you rather have a 40 year old QB you pay $25 M to?  Or a 28 year old QB that you pay $25 M to and who could be your qb of the future?

 

As much as I love the Colts, the Colts are not going to win a SB with Rivers.  Just a fact.  They are not beating KC in KC and next year Rivers is 40.  He is already pretty slow and weak armed. 

Could they win a SB with Wentz?  Not with how he is playing right now, but the ceiling and opportunity is much higher with Wentz than Rivers.

That "Old Man" you talk about is outperforming Wentz big time this year 

[StatesmanN]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Wentz makes far more than $25 mill per year.

 

And he’s not worth it.   He’s not even worth $25 at this point.  He may someday, but not today.  
 

The Colts are not going to trade draft pick(s) plus pay $25m or more to hope that Wentz is better than Rivers. 

I like Wentz.  But the risk reward ratio is completely out of whack. 

 

He gets $29.5 M a year.  So I think $4 M or so more than Rivers. 

 

"Cut Wentz immediately after the season and absorb his full $59.2 million cap charge in 2021. With the Eagles already expected to be significantly over the 2021 salary cap, this is essentially impossible and would require gutting a significant portion of the roster just to get Wentz’s contract off the books."

[PrincetonTiger]

[danlhart87]

On 12/12/2020 at 6:54 PM, w87r said:

Going to do a breakdown here of potential options this offseason.

 

Going off projected cap space of $67m fpr 2021 and only having 38 players under contract.

 

Obviously 1st option is Rivers, he could re-sign hopefully for lower than his $25m 2020 cap hit. Even if he agrees to $20m cap space is still tight.

 

Next option would be to roll with Eason, which would allow the team to retain depth and potentially add a couple pieces.

 

Next best option, imo, financially. Is Sam Darnold as he would only count $4.7m against 2021 cap allowing team to retain depth amd maybe add a couple pieces.

 

Other option would be to pick up another QB in the draft, or cheap veteran FA, which would allow us to retain depth and add additional pieces.

 

Other options:(that could make sense if the plan is to pay Rivers $20-$25, but he retires)

Matt Ryan:

2021 cap hit - $25m

2022 cap hit - $26m

2023 cap hit - $30m

 

Matt Stafford:

2021 cap hit - $20m

2022 cap hit - $23m

 

Aaron Rodgers:

2021 cap hit - $22m

2022 cap hit - $25.5m

2023 cap hit - $25.5m

 

Who knows if any of these guys would be available, but they could be available for cap or other reasons.

 

Guy that doesn't make sense and would cripple the team depth and any potential to bring in some additional depth:

Carson Wentz:

2021 cap hit - $31.4m

2022 cap hit - $28m

2023 cap hit - $33m

2024 cap hit - $32m

 

 

Again, I've seen Wentz name brought up to much. If we brought him in, we would have $36m to fill out rest of the roster(14 players to top 53, 10-16 PS players depending on rules next year and in season cap space $5-$10m). Crippling the teams ability to retain depth and add any additional help. Bringing in Wentz is the worst move the team could make this off-season and I would be greatly disappointed if it were to happen. No Colts fan should be routing for this scenario, imo. I suppose we could restructure his deal after a trade saving around $9m next year, but at no point does it make sense as it would just hurt the cap space in the future(2022 and beyond)where we have to extend quite a few other key players.(Nelson, Leonard, Smith).

Once again thanks @w87r

[StatesmanN]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That "Old Man" you talk about is outperforming Wentz big time this year 

This year.  And they are not going to win a SB with Rivers.  Look, I love Rivers.

 

But a SB is very unlikely with him.

Wentz has already shown he can take a team to an elite level. 

[danlhart87]

Just now, StatesmanN said:

This year.  And they are not going to win a SB with Rivers.  Look, I love Rivers.

 

But a SB is very unlikely with him.

Wentz has already shown he can take a team to an elite level. 

When did he show that?

Foles led the Eagles to SB

[PrincetonTiger]

Should this merge with the other Future QB talk

@Nadine @w87r @NFLfan @Shive @ColtsBlueFL @SteelCityColt

 

@EastStreet

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

When did he show that?

Foles led the Eagles to SB

He got himself injured so Foles could lead the team down the stretch 

[Four2itus]

There is a thread for this in the NFL section.

[NewColtsFan]

3 minutes ago, StatesmanN said:

He gets $29.5 M a year.  So I think $4 M or so more than Rivers. 

 

"Cut Wentz immediately after the season and absorb his full $59.2 million cap charge in 2021. With the Eagles already expected to be significantly over the 2021 salary cap, this is essentially impossible and would require gutting a significant portion of the roster just to get Wentz’s contract off the books."

To your argument you made to another poster....   that the Colts just paid JB to do nothing therefor they can afford Wentz.   I’m sorry, but that’s false. 
 

Because we are getting ready to pay Darius Leonard big money this off-season.   We are about to pay Braden Smith big money this off-season.  And a year from now (sooner?). We will pay Quinton Nelson big money.  
 

Our financial world is about to change dramatically.  And it comes at the same time the NFL salary cap is going to get cut due to Covid.    Wentz would have to agree to take a sizable pay cut in a restructured deal for this to have any chance of happening.   And he might.
 

Otherwise...   I don’t see this happening. 

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Should this merge with the other Future QB talk

@Nadine @w87r @NFLfan @Shive @ColtsBlueFL @SteelCityColt

 

@EastStreet

 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

[GoColts8818]

43 minutes ago, StatesmanN said:

I wouldn't be so sure.  Not if they can get Wentz.

And if you are right that is a very backwards way to think on the Colts part. 

 

Would you rather have a 40 year old QB you pay $25 M to?  Or a 28 year old QB that you pay $29.5 M to and who could be your qb of the future?

 

As much as I love the Colts, the Colts are not going to win a SB with Rivers.  Just a fact.  They are not beating KC in KC and next year Rivers is 40.  He is already pretty slow and weak armed. 

Could they win a SB with Wentz?  Not with how he is playing right now, but the ceiling and opportunity is much higher with Wentz than Rivers.

Wentz’s contract makes him untradeable and Rivers has done everything they expected him to do when he was signed.  The Colts aren’t going to want to change QBs unless Rivers forces them too,

[OffensivelyPC]

16 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Welp, the OL and surrounding talent excuse for Wentz took a big hit today. 

Hurts got sacked zero times, had 270ish total yards, a TD, and spread it around to 8 different pass catchers. 

And did it, while beating a team with a top 5 D.

 

Not saying Hurts is great, or the next big thing. Just saying he was able to win against one of the better team in the league, which is something Wentz has not been able to do.

Hurts had 14 total QB pressures, but was able to escape them.  It was on the morning show here in Indy.  Think the guy was quoting PFF.  The difference is that Hurts has the legs to escape, similar to what's his nuts over there in Baltimore.  So I am not totally buying that the line was all the sudden better when Hurts came in or that Wenz was so bad it made his OL look worse than it really is.  It's probably somewhere in the middle.

[GoColts8818]

51 minutes ago, StatesmanN said:

Why.  Rivers and Wentz get paid the same amount basically. 

 

Wentz only has 2 more years left on his contract.  So if they brought Rivers back next year and didn't bring in Wentz?  You are essentially only paying for one more year of Wentz. 

 

They just paid Jacoby $20 M to do nothing basically.

 

They can afford 2 years of Wentz to see if he can get back to what he was.

I think the Colts would tell you Jacoby does more than nothing.  He got that contract when they expected him to be the starter.  He was already here so they kept him rather than cut him or trade the cap hit and then really be paying for him to do nothing.  It’s not like the Colts went out and paid Jacoby 20 mil to get him this off-season.  It was already on the books.  Also regardless of if the Colts were willing to pay Wentz the Eagles aren’t going to take the cap hit that will come from moving him.  Lastly Rivers has worked very well in the Colts offense they are going to have no interest in changing QBs unless Rivers decides to retire.  Even then the Eagles still aren’t going to move Wentz because it will destroy their cap.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Hurts had 14 total QB pressures, but was able to escape them.  It was on the morning show here in Indy.  Think the guy was quoting PFF.  The difference is that Hurts has the legs to escape, similar to what's his nuts over there in Baltimore.  So I am not totally buying that the line was all the sudden better when Hurts came in or that Wenz was so bad it made his OL look worse than it really is.  It's probably somewhere in the middle.

I agree it's somewhere in the middle, but the eye test for me at least, shows Wentz is broken in some way. Not saying the OL is great, but IMO Wentz has caused some of his own problems. 

[OffensivelyPC]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree it's somewhere in the middle, but the eye test for me at least, shows Wentz is broken in some way. Not saying the OL is great, but IMO Wentz has caused some of his own problems. 

Maybe, but why?  How?  Scheme maybe?  It makes no sense that he was an ascending talent since his rookie year and all the sudden in 2020 it goes downhill.  Even with all his weapons injured last year, dude still was at least an average QB.  Reitz was obviously his best years as a QB.  But he stil played well even after his injury so we can't even say he pulled a Carson Palmer and was a shell of his former self after injury.  The entire ordeal makes no sense.

 

Trade and restructure, I'm on board with.  Get him at a prove it level, but I am willing to bet Reitz, if anyone could bring back the Wentz we knew.  Especially if we are not one board with any of the QBs this year's draft class.  There's options out there for me and I think Wentz is at least in the discussion.  Reitz brought back a recognizable Rivers even if his arm isn't what it once was.  And Wentz is what, 28?  At the very least, I think I'm more willing to bet that the Colts coach and staff can get more out of Wentz than I think Wentz is all the sudden broken in 2020 and beyond.  There's more proof that he's not broken, anyway.

[danlhart87]

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Maybe, but why?  How?  Scheme maybe?  It makes no sense that he was an ascending talent since his rookie year and all the sudden in 2020 it goes downhill.  Even with all his weapons injured last year, dude still was at least an average QB.  Reitz was obviously his best years as a QB.  But he stil played well even after his injury so we can't even say he pulled a Carson Palmer and was a shell of his former self after injury.  The entire ordeal makes no sense.

 

Trade and restructure, I'm on board with.  Get him at a prove it level, but I am willing to bet Reitz, if anyone could bring back the Wentz we knew.  Especially if we are not one board with any of the QBs this year's draft class.  There's options out there for me and I think Wentz is at least in the discussion.  Reitz brought back a recognizable Rivers even if his arm isn't what it once was.  And Wentz is what, 28?  At the very least, I think I'm more willing to bet that the Colts coach and staff can get more out of Wentz than I think Wentz is all the sudden broken in 2020 and beyond.  There's more proof that he's not broken, anyway.

I agree it doesn't make sense. They were talking on one of the morning NFL shows about how Pederson and Wentz got into a good groove the end of last year, and how things are just way off with Wentz this year. They basically suggested something is wrong that we're all not aware of. 

 

I'd never trade and restructure. That's too much regardless, and we're low on $ to an extent. There's a cap thread that lays it out, and also in the merged 2021 QB thread. Way to much risk for me based on how he fell apart this year, even if we had a bunch of money.

 

And I disagree Reich brought Rivers back. Only 2 years ago, Rivers was playing very very well. He just had a horrible OL last year, and tossed too many INTs (which he's always been liberal with INTs). This year is just about Rivers having protection, and rejuvenated to an extent to be playing on a new team, that appreciates him.

[Smoke317]

People keep talking about Frank supposedly resurrecting Wentz’ career...  Hard pass on that.  Wentz has regressed to hot garbage.  Guy isn’t worth the money or draft picks.   And reports out of Philly are that he’s entitled, won’t take accountability for his own poor play, and & is such a know it all that he ignores Pederson & changes the plays to what he wants.  I’m so much against Wentz coming here that if Reich & Wentz had to be reunited that I would prefer to send Frank back to them over bringing in Wentz. 

[DownHillRunner]

It sounds like he is campaigning for Rivers to come back next season. I might be reading too much into this. 

 

 

 

 

[danlhart87]

I fully support Rivers coming back 100%

[Four2itus]

I would love for Rivers to be here 2 more years, get Eason some preseason reps and fill in reps in a few spots during next season. End of next season, they assess.........

 

[jvan1973]

I see him being the starter next year with Eason as the backup

[GoColts8818]

Uh yeah lol.  He’s been everything the Colts thought they were getting in him when they signed him and frankly probably a little better.  No he’s not Manning or Luck or even Rivers in his prime when he put up mind boggling numbers but the Colts didn’t expect him to be that.  They expected him to be a game manger who could hit a crucial throw here and there and he’s been that and in some.

3 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I see him being the starter next year with Eason as the backup

That’s what I see as well.

[holeymoley99]

Hope he makes it through the rest of the season healthy and toe doesnt become an issue. His zip is still there on long balls even with toe bothering him, arm strength last to go.