Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[CanuckColt]

2 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

Cap issues or non-issues aside.... he’s had an ACL/LCL tear.... broken ribs... a Grade 1 concussion and a broken wrist (throwing hand).... and he’s missed considerable time as a result.

 

As far as I’m concerned he’s in 1 year “prove it” territory just by virtue of his injuries alone....setting aside his rotten play of late.

 

After what we experienced with Luck and his injuries I have no stomach for any trade for Wentz. If another team wants to grab him be my guest.

 

For me the ideal scenario for next season.... assuming we continue to finish strong.... would be....

 

Rivers @ 20m ish

Brissett @ 5m ish

Eason @ rookie contract 

 

This allows Ballard to fortify the rest of roster one more time, free of any big shakeups at QB. 
 

That’s my two cents and I owe you a penny’s change. 

Why keep Brissettt?  We need to be rid of this turkey.

We dumped Kelly ( who was a better QB than Brissett) and now we need to put Brissett behind us.

[richard pallo]

To me this is Rivers team if he wants to come back.  If he doesn't come back I would prefer we look at the other veteran QB's that might become available.   I would prefer a Carr or Stafford over acquiring Wentz.  The injury history, the player rumblings and the drama he would bring would not be worth it for me.  I think there is more downside than upside when it comes to Wentz.  If Frank is truly a QB whisperer I would rather have him work his magic on Darnold over Wentz if I had to choose.

[Dark Superman]

A lot will depend on Philip Rivers decision to retire or return for another year, and if the Colts want him back. Things will get interesting quickly if Philip Rivers isn't the Colts starter next season. Do you go with Jacob Eason? I would be surprised if do. I'm not trading for Carson Wentz. I'm not paying $30 million a year for an injury prone QB who is a turnover machine. Trade for Sam Darnold? Sure. Darnold's still in his rookie contract so giving the Jets a mid-round pick for him (Since they should be landing Trevor Lawrence) should be a steal for Indy. I would LOVE Dak Prescott, but I DOUBT Jerry Jones allows him to leave Texas.

[w87r]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I think that breakdown matches what I posted, right? 

 

The option bonus was guaranteed at signing, so it's a misnomer to call it an "option" bonus; in practice, it's just a second signing bonus. It was paid at the start of 2020. It's completely charged to the Eagles and prorated over five seasons, just like a signing bonus. It would be accelerated to the 2021 cap, or partially to 2021 with the remainder charged in 2022. 

 

I don't see a restructure being on the table for the trading team. He's guaranteed $40m over the next two seasons. So unless you want to add extra years, and push some of the cap hits into those future years, there's not a lot of benefit for the trading team. And the only real incentive for Wentz would be to make more guaranteed money; he's still due $100m over the next four seasons on his current contract. The scary part for the Eagles is that his "extension" really doesn't start until 2021.

 

It's basically a two year commitment, at least. If not for the cap shrinkage, the Eagles would be waiting at least one more season and hoping he gets back on track. But as it stands, I think they have to do something at the start of 2021.

 

Edit: The option bonus function is a big part of what forced the Colts hand with the Manning contract. Check this out, go down to "Prorated Bonus." https://overthecap.com/a-guide-to-the-nfl-salary-cap/

Yeah its pretty much exactly what you put. I couldn't really read to much earlier jis3t saw the post asking so I looked a little deeper at the option bonus.

 

And as far as the restructure, it is what you say as well. It would just to give him mlre guaranteed money in 2022-2024 to eleviate a little this year, which would be very beneficial.

 

 

His restructure after trade could look like this:

 

Current deal after trade:

2021: $25.4m

2022: $22m

2023: $25m

2024: $26m

 

Potential figures on a restructure:($15.4m base turned into $1m base; $14.4m/ over 4years = $3.6m/yr)

2021 - $14.6m

2022 - $25.6m ($10.8m dead cap)

2023 - $28.6m ($7.2m dead cap)

2024 - $29.6m ($3.6m dead cap)

 

So this restructure works out great for team he is traded to and worth pushing some money down the line, in a year with right cap space.

 

[danlhart87]

21 Rivers/Eason/Late Rounder

22 Jones or Trask or Eason starting 

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

To me this is Rivers team if he wants to come back.  If he doesn't come back I would prefer we look at the other veteran QB's that might become available.   I would prefer a Carr or Stafford over acquiring Wentz.  The injury history, the player rumblings and the drama he would bring would not be worth it for me.  I think there is more downside than upside when it comes to Wentz.  If Frank is truly a QB whisperer I would rather have him work his magic on Darnold over Wentz if I had to choose.

I prefer Rivers as well. The guy has played great, he does have mobility issues but makes up for it with his knowledge and experience. He has 9int, and at least 2 if not 3 really weren't his fault.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Yeah its pretty much exactly what you put. I couldn't really read to much earlier jis3t saw the post asking so I looked a little deeper at the option bonus.

 

And as far as the restructure, it is what you say as well. It would just to give him mlre guaranteed money in 2022-2024 to eleviate a little this year, which would be very beneficial.

 

 

His restructure after trade could look like this:

 

Current deal after trade:

2021: $25.4m

2022: $22m

2023: $25m

2024: $26m

 

Potential figures on a restructure:($15.4m base turned into $1m base; $14.4m/ over 4years = $3.6m/yr)

2021 - $14.6m

2022 - $25.6m ($10.8m dead cap)

2023 - $28.6m ($7.2m dead cap)

2024 - $29.6m ($3.6m dead cap)

 

So this restructure works out great for team he is traded to and worth pushing some money down the line, in a year with right cap space.

 

 

If you're just doing a restructure, great, that's simple. And since 2021 is likely to be the most painful cap year, a new team dropping his 2021 cap hit makes sense. It's basically borrowing future cap space. I wouldn't do it for the Colts, but another team might want to.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

If you're just doing a restructure, great, that's simple. And since 2021 is likely to be the most painful cap year, a new team dropping his 2021 cap hit makes sense. It's basically borrowing future cap space. I wouldn't do it for the Colts, but another team might want to.

You wouldn't do it for the Colts? Cap is tight and would help the team keep its depth and bring couple guys in potentially. Plus if he comes in and plays good, those future cap hits are going to be a pretty good deal(even with $3.6m a year added to them). If he doesn't play well, then it's still easy enough to cut bait and move on.

 

 

Like I said, though, it's definitely more intriguing, but probably not the route I would go myself.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

You wouldn't do it for the Colts? Cap is tight and would help the team keep its depth and bring couple guys in potentially. Plus if he comes in and plays good, those future cap hits are going to be a pretty good deal(even with $3.6m a year added to them). If he doesn't play well, then it's still easy enough to cut bait and move on.

 

 

Like I said, though, it's definitely more intriguing, but probably not the route I would go myself.

 

I'm almost always against this kind of restructure. The Colts don't need it, other teams do. If we were highly competitive and needed to make some cap space for a move, then we can think about it.

[danlhart87]

Here's my question 

 

Unless Rivers surprisingly retires in 21 he will be brought back?

 

How long would you want him back

I love Rivers but by 22' Colts need to roll with Eason or rookie 

[danlhart87]

1. Indianapolis Colts

 

Philip Rivers is only on a one-year deal, and he's not exactly a surefire bet to be back with the Indianapolis Colts next year. If the 39-year-old calls it a career at the end of the season, or the Colts simply feel the need to upgrade the position, they shouldn't have much trouble. Indianapolis is projected to have about $67 million in cap space for 2021, per Spotrac, giving them plenty of flexibility to go out and make a real splash. Frank Reich would probably be the best offensive mind Stafford has ever worked with, and it'd be refreshing to see the Georgia product finally play behind an elite offensive line. Though the financial aspect could be tricky (for both sides), this move would immediately transform the Colts from a fringe contender into a legitimate Super Bowl threat.

 

For those interested in Stafford 

[w87r]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm almost always against this kind of restructure. The Colts don't need it, other teams do. If we were highly competitive and needed to make some cap space for a move, then we can think about it.

Just curious to why you don't think the Colts really need it?

 

At the $25.4m cap hit, subtracted from the $67m we have, we are left with $42m and a ton of important depth to try and re-sign. Figure in $5-$10m in season spending cash, $1.5m(ish) Practice Squad money, and we are only left with around $30m left to sign 14 players. Figure $5-$7m would be for draft picks, so $23-$25m to sign roughly 8-10 guys.

 

No much wiggle room. That $10.4m savings would be huge.

 

 

Again, not really what Im wanting just throwing numbers out there to show what it really is.

 

We could restructure Kelly and save another $8-$9m in a similar way, outside of that, not really any other options to free up cap space outside of releasing Doyle(I could see) and Glowinski(not to keen on)

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, w87r said:

Just curious to why you don't think the Colts really need it?

 

At the $25.4m cap hit, subtracted from the $67m we have, we are left with $42m and a ton of important depth to try and re-sign. Figure in $5-$10m in season spending cash, $1.5m(ish) Practice Squad money, and we are only left with around $30m left to sign 14 players. Figure $5-$7m would be for draft picks, so $23-$25m to sign roughly 8-10 guys.

 

No much wiggle room. That $10.4m savings would be huge.

 

 

Again, not really what Im wanting just throwing numbers out there to show what it really is.

 

We could restructure Kelly and save another $8-$9m in a similar way, outside of that, not really any other options to free up cap space outside of releasing Doyle(I could see) and Glowinski(not to keen on)

 

I guess I wasn't thinking specifically about this situation, but you're probably right. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

He was good last year, I agree. It was just a weird good lol. His top 3 receivers were 2 TEs and a RB. And this is while having the #1 OL. He's a head scratcher to me.

His WRs were SOOOOO TRASH. I think he had 4K yards for the year and none of his WRs passed 500 yards. This is hard to do. Real hard! BTW his OL was injured last year too - Peters missed a quarter of the season, Lane Johnson missed a third of the season, 

 

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Very good point about the pros earning their money here. And Reich should have a better feel than most. My gut says Reich prefers Rivers, so we'll see. 

Very possible, Rivers is steady and known. With Wentz there is a certian uncertainty. 

 

[DontEverGiveUp]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

Here's my question 

 

Unless Rivers surprisingly retires in 21 he will be brought back?

 

How long would you want him back

I love Rivers but by 22' Colts need to roll with Eason or rookie 

Rivers will play in 2021 and then retire.

 

He already said 2 years max, as he wants to coach his son in high school.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, stitches said:

His WRs were SOOOOO TRASH. I think he had 4K yards for the year and none of his WRs passed 500 yards. This is hard to do. Real hard! BTW his OL was injured last year too - Peters missed a quarter of the season, Lane Johnson missed a third of the season, 

 

Very possible, Rivers is steady and known. With Wentz there is a certian uncertainty. 

 

I would not want to mess with the success we had this year in hopes we can fix some other  other QB. I would rather role with rivers and try and build on this year and develop Eason or draft the next guy for 2022. We owe rivers a lot for giving us a fun team this year and bring on the brink of the playoffs. Huge risk to say we don’t want you next year because we are hoping we can fix Wentz. I think Reich loves rivers a lot and although he might love wentz hard to see him being ok dumping on Rivers after what he has done this year.

[danlhart87]

I hate how much the media is pushing this Wentz Reich reunion on all of us.

 

[DontEverGiveUp]

10 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I hate how much the media is pushing this Wentz Reich reunion on all of us.

 

They have to in order to save face.  The same people that have been saying Rivers is washed and Wentz is potential GOAT material.  This season has completely wrecked a lot of media narratives.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

They have to in order to save face.  The same people that have been saying Rivers is washed and Wentz is potential GOAT material.  This season has completely wrecked a lot of media narratives.

Rivers is far from washed up. Hes done well and a lot better than I even anticipated. In 21' I would much rather have Rivers over Wentz.

 

I am thinking Rivers 1/20

[DontEverGiveUp]

Colts should go after Tyrod Taylor.

 

I mean, look how good Rivers turned out, and Tyrod should have been starting over him last year according to fans and the media.

[danlhart87]

9 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Colts should go after Tyrod Taylor.

 

I mean, look how good Rivers turned out, and Tyrod should have been starting over him last year according to fans and the media.

No thanks unless you want him as 3rd stringer

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

His WRs were SOOOOO TRASH. I think he had 4K yards for the year and none of his WRs passed 500 yards. This is hard to do. Real hard! BTW his OL was injured last year too - Peters missed a quarter of the season, Lane Johnson missed a third of the season, 

Agholor isn't trash. He's got twice the yards now that he's with Carr (he's their #2), and he's sharing targets with Waller, Ruggs, Renfrow, and Jacobs. His targets are actually down in LVR, but his YPG has increased significantly, and his AVG is almost doubled. 

 

That screams to me that it wasn't a WR problem... strongly suggests a QB problem.

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Very possible, Rivers is steady and known. With Wentz there is a certian uncertainty. 

Yup. Sign me up for the Rivers I've seen the last several games. Easy decision.

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

Colts should go after Tyrod Taylor.

 

I mean, look how good Rivers turned out, and Tyrod should have been starting over him last year according to fans and the media.

This is sarcasm, right?

[DontEverGiveUp]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

No thanks unless you want him as 3rd stringer

 

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

This is sarcasm, right?

Yes.  It appears I failed miserably with my sarcasm attempt.

 

My bad.

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, DontEverGiveUp said:

 

Yes.  It appears I failed miserably with my sarcasm attempt.

 

My bad.

italics

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The more I think about it if we could get Darnold for a 3rd or a 4th and bring rivers back that could be a good situation. Eason and him battle for the backup for one year then the two of them battle for the starting job in 2022. Rivers could be a good mentor for him and Eason. Then in 2022 you have two young guys battling for the job and the other as a backup. Would have to keep 3 QB on the active roster but don’t think that is a big deal. Gives them two shots with young guys.

[danlhart87]

I would trade a 4th for Darnold and that's about as high as I would go

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

43 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I would trade a 4th for Darnold and that's about as high as I would go

Yep. Because I am only bringing him in to compete with Eason in 2022. He wouldn’t be handed the keys.  The only thing Is he was s pretty high draft pick so not sure how much is he making in 2021. Plus you would have to decide on the fifth year in 2021. That would be a hefty raise in 2022 if it didn’t work. You could always decline the option and give him a new contract but again if your bringing him in to compete you don’t want to do that until he earned it.

 

 

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

I would trade a 4th for Darnold and that's about as high as I would go

We drafted Eason in the 4th and we really don't know a thing about him.  Darnold was a 1st rounder and has won in this league and shown he is capable of running a team albeit a bad one.  I think he would be a great backup for Rivers as he settles in with us under Frank's guidance.  I would have no problem trading our 3rd.  

[danlhart87]

Just now, richard pallo said:

We drafted Eason in the 4th and we really don't know a thing about him.  Darnold was a 1st rounder and has won in this league and shown he is capable of running a team albeit a bad one.  I think he would be a great backup for Rivers as he settles in with us under Frank's guidance.  I would have no problem trading our 3rd.  

I would trade 4th then keep him on a short leash 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

We drafted Eason in the 4th and we really don't know a thing about him.  Darnold was a 1st rounder and has won in this league and shown he is capable of running a team albeit a bad one.  I think he would be a great backup for Rivers as he settles in with us under Frank's guidance.  I would have no problem trading our 3rd.  

Darnold has won in the NFL?!?

 

Where?   When?!?   He may be traded precisely because he hasn’t won in the pros. 
 

Darnold may or may not be good someday.  But he’s far from a sure thing.  There is considerable risk with him. 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Darnold has won in the NFL?!?

 

Where?   When?!?   He may be traded precisely because he hasn’t won in the pros. 
 

Darnold may or may not be good someday.  But he’s far from a sure thing.  There is considerable risk with him. 

That risk is why I won't go higher than 4th

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Darnold has won in the NFL?!?

 

Where?   When?!?   He may be traded precisely because he hasn’t won in the pros. 
 

Darnold may or may not be good someday.  But he’s far from a sure thing.  There is considerable risk with him. 

I'll first say that I'm not big fan of Darnold, but he is 11-24, and playing on a horrible team. Aside from Mims who they just drafted, can you name one of their WRs or TEs? How about RB, aside from 37 year old Gore? Add to that (or really subtract), they have a bottom 5 OL and 3rd worst D.

 

All that said, not saying he's good, but holy cow what a bad team surrounding him. Would any QB be good there? 

BTW, JB is 12-20, and played on much better teams.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'll first say that I'm not big fan of Darnold, but he is 11-24, and playing on a horrible team. Aside from Mims who they just drafted, can you name one of their WRs or TEs? How about RB, aside from 37 year old Gore? Add to that (or really subtract), they have a bottom 5 OL and 3rd worst D.

 

All that said, not saying he's good, but holy cow what a bad team surrounding him. Would any QB be good there? 

BTW, JB is 12-20, and played on much better teams.

He certainly has potential but I also fear he might be broken down from being on Jets

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'll first say that I'm not big fan of Darnold, but he is 11-24, and playing on a horrible team. Aside from Mims who they just drafted, can you name one of their WRs or TEs? How about RB, aside from 37 year old Gore? Add to that (or really subtract), they have a bottom 5 OL and 3rd worst D.

 

All that said, not saying he's good, but holy cow what a bad team surrounding him. Would any QB be good there? 

BTW, JB is 12-20, and played on much better teams.

You make a very good, very fair, very reasonable case to consider doing the trade.  
 

Im not 100 percent opposed, I was not a huge fan when he was at USC here in my back yard.    But when Gase recently admitted he had done a poor job preparing Darnold for the NFL, I thought that was eye popping and jaw dropping. 

[danlhart87]

@Moosejawcolt

 

What are your thoughts on the future at QB for the Colts 

[EastStreet]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

He certainly has potential but I also fear he might be broken down from being on Jets

That would be my biggest fear. Also he's from USC and the PAC, which are icky... 

[EastStreet]

53 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You make a very good, very fair, very reasonable case to consider doing the trade.  
 

Im not 100 percent opposed, I was not a huge fan when he was at USC here in my back yard.    But when Gase recently admitted he had done a poor job preparing Darnold for the NFL, I thought that was eye popping and jaw dropping. 

Gase might be trying to raise his trade stock. 

IDK. dice roll. might be worth it if cheap

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Darnold has won in the NFL?!?

 

Where?   When?!?   He may be traded precisely because he hasn’t won in the pros. 
 

Darnold may or may not be good someday.  But he’s far from a sure thing.  There is considerable risk with him. 

I honestly want no part of him or Wentz at this point, JMO.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Lets hope Rivers plays one more year as he has had a good season and that buys us more time.