Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[stitches]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Agholor isn't trash. He's got twice the yards now that he's with Carr (he's their #2), and he's sharing targets with Waller, Ruggs, Renfrow, and Jacobs. His targets are actually down in LVR, but his YPG has increased significantly, and his AVG is almost doubled. 

 

That screams to me that it wasn't a WR problem... strongly suggests a QB problem.

Yup. Sign me up for the Rivers I've seen the last several games. Easy decision.

Agholor was dropping passes left and right. Lets not pretend that he was playing last year the way he's playing now. Just ask Philly fans to tell you what they think of Agholor... 

 

 

For example, PFF has his grade at 70.9 this year, which is above average, while last year it was 54... which is pretty bad. 

 

To me being able to spread the ball around and still be very productive despite lacking clear top receiver talent is a plus for a QB, not a negative. At the end of the day it's about being productive and winning player, which he was(any time before this year), not about whether any of his horrible receivers was able to crack any arbitrary line we set. 

 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

Agholor was dropping passes left and right. Lets not pretend that he was playing last year the way he's playing now. Just ask Philly fans to tell you what they think of Agholor... 

 

 

For example, PFF has his grade at 70.9 this year, which is above average, while last year it was 54... which is pretty bad. 

 

To me being able to spread the ball around and still be very productive despite lacking clear top receiver talent is a plus for a QB, not a negative. At the end of the day it's about being productive and winning player, which he was(any time before this year), not about whether any of his horrible receivers was able to crack any arbitrary line we set. 

 

IDK man. Did he suddenly grow hands in LVR? When a WR all of sudden looks 2x better after changing teams/QB, it's hard for me not to look at the old QB. And given CW's decline, even harder for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Dogg63]

21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IDK man. Did he suddenly grow hands in LVR?

This is a good read. The author points to Agholor's increased confidence and his switch from slot to Z as the main reasons he's doing well with LVR. Makes sense to me.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Dogg63 said:

This is a good read. The author points to Agholor's increased confidence and his switch from slot to Z as the main reasons he's doing well with LVR. Makes sense to me.

Thanks man. Good read.

 

IDK. Bad slots normally don't become good Zs. Positions are similar. Only difference is more outside work and more motion. The outside work is harder in ways than slot, but the motion can make it easier vs the press. Guys like Hill for instance was a great slot that made a successful jump. And a lot of Z (bad or slowing ones) can slide inside. The reason I say all that, the position move doesn't do much to move the needle for me.  Just not adding up to be honest.

 

The increased confidence thing is just the fresh start bounce to me, and could easily be code for "I'm getting thrown better passes and having more success with Carr". I guess he might have just had a hard time dealing with Philly fans and media lol. 

 

 

[shasta519]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

You can give Eason QB2 reps, and limit JBs to short yardage / goal line.

It's not high on my typical reasons to sign a QB2, but with Rivers, there is a natural fit. 

 

I agree though, there are 20 ways to skin that cat (like I posted to @Chloe6124 )

 

Just saying, JB doesn't have to impact Eason all that much.

A lot of folks said no thanks to "Rivers in 2021 a month or so ago. What if Rivers continues his high level play throughout 21? If he's still playing like he is now, I'd be happy to bring him back another year. He's playing at a very high level, and he's only had a lower INT% twice in his career. Rough start to 2020, but very strong finish. An entire year like he's playing now, and it would be arguably his best season.

 

I was onboard with Rivers before LAC even let him go. He made perfect sense as stopgap. But I also think there are very real limitations with him at QB. That's fine...but what else could do they do at the time? But I would like to see a plan for QB succession.

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The increased confidence thing is just the fresh start bounce to me, and could easily be code for "I'm getting thrown better passes and having more success with Carr". I guess he might have just had a hard time dealing with Philly fans and media lol. 

 

Agholor was consistently hurt last season, has had nagging injuries throughout his career, has had a lot of drops throughout his career (and that includes this season; his drop rate is double what it was last year, as a matter of fact), and was routinely rumored to be on the trade block over his last couple seasons.

 

He probably is getting better passes this year, given that the Eagles offense has been stuck in low gear for a year and a half now. Wentz was hardly targeting WR the first half of last season. 

 

But Agholor was a problem on his own, and arguably still is. His production this season is better, but still not great. He has 38 catches, 635 yards, which is a great average but not incredibly productive or reliable. And seven drops on 45 catchable passes -- 15% drop rate, one of the worst in the league. Saving grace is that he has seven TDs. 

[Superman]

23 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Pederson had them playing pretty well last year despite Wentz's struggles with throwing to anyone not a TE or RB.

 

Meant to comment on this earlier. I'm not blaming Pederson. I just wonder if he's the right guy for a rebuild, and if not, they could probably advance their rebuild by moving him for a couple picks.

 

Far fetched idea, zero percent chance it happens, IMO. Just thinking out loud.

[EastStreet]

44 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I was onboard with Rivers before LAC even let him go. He made perfect sense as stopgap. But I also think there are very real limitations with him at QB. That's fine...but what else could do they do at the time? But I would like to see a plan for QB succession.

Well, I'm sure they have a plan, just unlikely to tip their hat... 

[EastStreet]

40 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Agholor was consistently hurt last season, has had nagging injuries throughout his career, has had a lot of drops throughout his career (and that includes this season; his drop rate is double what it was last year, as a matter of fact), and was routinely rumored to be on the trade block over his last couple seasons.

 

He probably is getting better passes this year, given that the Eagles offense has been stuck in low gear for a year and a half now. Wentz was hardly targeting WR the first half of last season. 

 

But Agholor was a problem on his own, and arguably still is. His production this season is better, but still not great. He has 38 catches, 635 yards, which is a great average but not incredibly productive or reliable. And seven drops on 45 catchable passes -- 15% drop rate, one of the worst in the league. Saving grace is that he has seven TDs. 

Agree on all points. But to the OP, he's not a trash WR. Carr, someone who has been historically considered much less talented than Wentz, is getting a lot more bang for the buck.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just listening to rivers today and Reichs comments Monday as long as things don’t fall apart rivers will be back. I don’t think  after a successful season they are going to dump him for a guy they hope to fix. They will maybe try and upgrade a TE or something and hope Campbell can stay healthy. The QB issue got fixed this season why mess with that. They just need to have a plan for when he does retire.

[EastStreet]

37 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Meant to comment on this earlier. I'm not blaming Pederson. I just wonder if he's the right guy for a rebuild, and if not, they could probably advance their rebuild by moving him for a couple picks.

 

Far fetched idea, zero percent chance it happens, IMO. Just thinking out loud.

I hear ya. If I'm him, not sure I want to go through a rebuild unless they extend.

[Patrick Miller]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:27 PM, DontEverGiveUp said:

Expect Rivers to return next year, barring a SB win or catastrophic finish to the season/injury.

 

If Rivers retires, then I expect Brissett and Eason to be the main QBs on the team next year.

Isn't Brissettt contract over after this year? U really think the Colts are going to sign him again?

[EastStreet]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

Just listening to rivers today and Reichs comments Monday as long as things don’t fall apart rivers will be back. I don’t think  after a successful season they are going to dump him for a guy they hope to fix. They will maybe try and upgrade a TE or something and hope Campbell can stay healthy. The QB issue got fixed this season why mess with that. They just need to have a plan for when he does retire.

TE has been fine. We need Campbell to stay healthy. Regardless, depending on what they do with TY's contract, they may need to draft a WR in R2-4 or FA. Lot's of bargain should be available this year due to covid season.

[Rally5]

On 12/15/2020 at 12:33 PM, NewColtsFan said:

You think a team will take a cap hit of $50+ million to save $2 mill?   Really?   Seriously?

 

Go thru the thread.   Look at the other posters who are saying what I’m saying.   Maybe they explained it better than I did?   I’m not saying it’s 100% impossible, but it’s close.    Especially next year when the salary cap is expected to drop due to Covid.   Less revenue means teams will have less to spend. 
 

I like Wentz.  But this is far more complicated than just trying to trade a former MVP candidate. 

We'll see how it plays out, nobody on this board knows what will happen.  Just amateur opinions.

On 12/15/2020 at 12:04 PM, w87r said:

Yes, its completely mind blowing that so many doesn't understand it, like yourself.

 

Its an option its an idea and its a bad one.

 

I'm merging this thread with the future QB thread, because that's what it is turning into anyway.

Ok tough guy.

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Isn't Brissettt contract over after this year? U really think the Colts are going to sign him again?

Doesn't really matter IMO. If he's resigned, it will be for a reasonable amount. If he's not resigned, we'll be fine.

I'd be more than fine for signing him for 1.5ish and carrying on exactly the same as this year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

36 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

TE has been fine. We need Campbell to stay healthy. Regardless, depending on what they do with TY's contract, they may need to draft a WR in R2-4 or FA. Lot's of bargain should be available this year due to covid season.

I think TY will be back. Sure would be nice to have a dominate TE but your right if you combine the three stats it pretty much equals what one dominate TE would be doing. I could see another WR even if TY comes back. You just can’t replace TY leadership. I could see him taking slightly less to make sure we can sign others. LT or DE should be the priority in rd one. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

42 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

Isn't Brissettt contract over after this year? U really think the Colts are going to sign him again?

He won’t cost much and I doubt that he will be signed by anyone  else. There is still a saturation of QB.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think TY will be back. Sure would be nice to have a dominate TE but your right if you combine the three stats it pretty much equals what one dominate TE would be doing. I could see another WR even if TY comes back. You just can’t replace TY leadership. I could see him taking slightly less to make sure we can sign others. LT or DE should be the priority in rd one. 

MAC IMO will only get better. His snaps were down a bit last week, but if he's healthy I expect it to be back up this week. Not sure if the knee is lingering. IMO, this is really his "year 1", and I expect him to take a step forward next year. 

 

Burton is less TE to me, and more slot/small TE/HB/gadget guy. But he's fills a TE spot.  He's got great situational value, but low true TE value. Still a good weapon.

 

Doyle isn't going anywhere. He's Mr. Reliable.

 

Add in the factor, Pittman's emergence as a big-X, and the need for using capital on another TE just isn't that high.

[Patrick Miller]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

He won’t cost much and I doubt that he will be signed by anyone  else. There is still a saturation of QB.

To be honest I'd like to see Eason get some reps as the backup to Rivers next year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

To be honest I'd like to see Eason get some reps as the backup to Rivers next year.

This is the only thing that gives me pause in bringing him back. Eason needs to be the backup if we really want to develop him.  But maybe there could be a way to split scout team reps with Jacoby. Jacoby will probably test the market first.

[Patrick Miller]

23 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is the only thing that gives me pause in bringing him back. Eason needs to be the backup if we really want to develop him.  But maybe there could be a way to split scout team reps with Jacoby. Jacoby will probably test the market first.

That's what I'm guessing. I think Jacoby wants to be a starter so he'll test the waters. I just dont think he'll have much luck.

[Moosejawcolt]

17 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

@Moosejawcolt

 

What are your thoughts on the future at QB for the Colts 

 I am not sure there is one. Rivers probably back for one more year. Eason is a 4th round pick. Based on history in the NFL. There are not many 4th round qbs who go on to b starters for their teams and become impactful players

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 I am not sure there is one. Rivers probably back for one more year. Eason is a 4th round pick. Based on history in the NFL. There are not many 4th round qbs who go on to b starters for their teams and become impactful players

Really. They will eventually figure it out. Lol

[danlhart87]

38 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

 I am not sure there is one. Rivers probably back for one more year. Eason is a 4th round pick. Based on history in the NFL. There are not many 4th round qbs who go on to b starters for their teams and become impactful players

The given track right now is Rivers with Eason as backup. Anything you prefer beyond that as in 22'  onward 

[dw49]

6 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Doesn't really matter IMO. If he's resigned, it will be for a reasonable amount. If he's not resigned, we'll be fine.

I'd be more than fine for signing him for 1.5ish and carrying on exactly the same as this year.

Unless somethings happens with Eason , I would be shocked if Brissett was resigned. Seems to me the heavy "favorite " would be Rivers resigned and Eason as the back up. I have a feeling they like Eason enough to not draft another QB by the end of day two. He seems to have a monster arm and the bad rap on his work ethic has been refuted by the coaching staff. Certainly seems enough to give him a shot at being the back up in 2021. Brissett , IMO, is a terrible fit in 2021.

[dw49]

2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

The given track right now is Rivers with Eason as backup. Anything you prefer beyond that as in 22'  onward 

 Totally agree but you never can be certain that something crazy won't happen. 

[danlhart87]

I know the organization loves Brissett so wouldn't surprise if he is brought back. I hope he isn't cause I want Eason to move up the depth chart!

[BProland85]

6 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Just listening to rivers today and Reichs comments Monday as long as things don’t fall apart rivers will be back. I don’t think  after a successful season they are going to dump him for a guy they hope to fix. They will maybe try and upgrade a TE or something and hope Campbell can stay healthy. The QB issue got fixed this season why mess with that. They just need to have a plan for when he does retire.

Imagine Kyle Pitts as the Colts new TE. Or I’d be totally in favor of signing free agent ultra athletic Jonnu Smith from the Titans. 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Imagine Kyle Pitts as the Colts new TE. Or I’d be totally in favor of signing free agent ultra athletic Jonnu Smith from the Titans. 

He's going top 15 possibly even top 10

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I have to say listening to rivers interviews are fun. He is so smart and reminds me of when Peyton would break down a game. We didn’t get that from Luck.

[danlhart87]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I have to say listening to rivers interviews are fun. He is so smart and reminds me of when Peyton would break down a game. We didn’t get that from Luck.

Luck had fun interviews. One of my favorites was when a reporter asked him if he had any long conversations w Nelson.

 

Luck is very smart too 

[danlhart87]

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I miss Luck a lot but having Rivers now helps for the time being. Rivers has a fun personality and great for the community + he has played good football lately.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I miss Luck a lot but having Rivers now helps for the time being. Rivers has a fun personality and great for the community + he has played good football lately.

I bet he plays a lot at home too

He practically has his own offense with wife

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, dw49 said:

Unless somethings happens with Eason , I would be shocked if Brissett was resigned. Seems to me the heavy "favorite " would be Rivers resigned and Eason as the back up. I have a feeling they like Eason enough to not draft another QB by the end of day two. He seems to have a monster arm and the bad rap on his work ethic has been refuted by the coaching staff. Certainly seems enough to give him a shot at being the back up in 2021. Brissett , IMO, is a terrible fit in 2021.

Any feeling on Eason by the fanbase at this point, is nothing but a feeling lol. We simply know zero. I'm still optimistic, but that's nothing more than guy. And Irsay doesn't say things like he did (about keeping Rivers and JB) IMO if it's not a strong possibility. Doesn't mean they will resign him, just means he'll likely get a contract offer. A lot of things could happen, but I would not say anything is a "favorite" right now.

[DontEverGiveUp]

9 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

Isn't Brissettt contract over after this year? U really think the Colts are going to sign him again?

If Rivers is gone, then I wouldn't be surprised.  If Rivers is back, I expect Brissett to be a backup elsewhere.

[dw49]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Any feeling on Eason by the fanbase at this point, is nothing but a feeling lol. We simply know zero. I'm still optimistic, but that's nothing more than guy. And Irsay doesn't say things like he did (about keeping Rivers and JB) IMO if it's not a strong possibility. Doesn't mean they will resign him, just means he'll likely get a contract offer. A lot of things could happen, but I would not say anything is a "favorite" right now.

 

 

Irsay sometimes makes comments that don't have a lot of sense to them. My memory is pretty good and I remember him saying that he was open to keeping Manning and drafting Luck. That would never make sense for reasons we don't need to revisit. IMO , there is no "fit"between Brissett and Indy and also my opinion Rivers and Eason is a BIG favorite over Brissett and another QB. Your opinion is there is no favorite. Mine is different .If I were to lay odds , I would have no problem laying 2-1 that Eason is back with the Colts and Brissett is not. Doubt I could find any takers on that bet... 

[Superman]

8 hours ago, dw49 said:

Irsay sometimes makes comments that don't have a lot of sense to them. My memory is pretty good and I remember him saying that he was open to keeping Manning and drafting Luck.

 

I was just going to say the same thing. 

 

I don't think Irsay's media statements should be latched on to as potential directives for decisions that are several months down the road. Sometimes he's just talking. He's definitely part of the final decision making process, but I feel like that process hasn't really started in earnest yet.

 

Edit: I've anticipated all along that JB would be gone, but there will be little to no money out there for him this offseason, so I could see him staying. And while I don't like how it affects the depth chart, his specialized role in the offense has worked pretty well in the second half of the season.

[BeanDiasucci]

On 12/15/2020 at 4:50 PM, CanuckColt said:

Why keep Brissettt?  We need to be rid of this turkey.

We dumped Kelly ( who was a better QB than Brissett) and now we need to put Brissett behind us.

At almost 27 years of age, Kelly has a career total of -1 yards passing. I wonder if he'll ever surpass that. 

 

Who's the turkey here? 

 

“We are in the process of getting all the facts and talking to Chad, and then we’ll figure out exactly which direction we’re going to go,” Elway said on his weekly radio show on Orange & Blue 760. “When the team has a get-together, (it) is always a good thing. You like when they get together and the camaraderie that goes along with being a team. But when you have one person that kind of puts a dent in the whole process, it’s very disappointing."

 

"Jacoby is extremely deserving of this honor and he embodies everything Walter Payton and the award stand for," said Colts Head Coach Frank Reich. "I cannot overstate the importance of Jacoby Brissett to this team. He is a leader, a special teammate and is highly respected by everyone in our organization. Simply put he's played a significant role in our success both on and off the field."

 

[Fluke_33]

10 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

At almost 27 years of age, Kelly has a career total of -1 yards passing. I wonder if he'll ever surpass that. 

 

Please get your facts straight before posting.  it is actually one rush attempt for -1.  he has no pass attempts.  lol (the fact is true on the rush/pass but sarcastic on you checking facts)