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Top Rated Rookie LB's (Mid Season)

Scott Pennock

By Scott Pennock
in Colts Football

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Chucklez Team Captain

Chucklez

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

They (PFF) have Darius Leonard rated second behind Leighton Vander Esch.....who has 54 total tackles, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FF, 0 FR, etc....

 

How is that even possible?

PFF takes missed games heavily into account, which hurts Leonard’s ranking, which is ridiculous 

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csmopar Ring of Honor

csmopar

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

They (PFF) have Darius Leonard rated second behind Leighton Vander Esch.....who has 54 total tackles, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FF, 0 FR, etc....

 

How is that even possible?

its PFF, always, always take their ratings with a spoonful of salt

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

Posted
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24 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

They (PFF) have Darius Leonard rated second behind Leighton Vander Esch.....who has 54 total tackles, 0 sacks, 0 INTs, 0 FF, 0 FR, etc....

 

How is that even possible?

 

That's an improvement.  They had him as the 4th rated rookie LB last week.

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K-148 Practice Squad

K-148

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Because PFF rates not how much tackles LB got, but how he did it.

Player A covered RB so close, QB didn't even try to pass to RB or passed, but RB can't secure ball. Playing the run, Player A filled his gap nicely, RB cut outside and was tackled by DE.

Player B covered RB bad, RB took pass for 20 yards and was tackled from behind by Player B. Playing the run, Player B took bad angle, was blocked by WR and chased RB for 49 yards gain.

Official NFL statistics: Player A - 0 tackles, Player B - 2 tackles. Player A - LVE, Player B - Pat Angerer or T.J. Green. Darius is Player A-.

If I remember correctly, he was rated poor after one game because he allowed catches for more than 100 yards. That was discussed here some weeks ago.

And quantity of games or snaps played doesn't affect rate: Dante Fowler was graded 90.8 being rotational player. Safety Harris from Vikings was graded 96.3 (!) and he did not play even 50 snaps to be ranked.

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shasta519 Ring of Honor

shasta519

Posted
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52 minutes ago, Superman said:

PFF ratings aren't based on stats. 

 

Performance vs production. But they are somewhat based on their own stats.

 

In Leonard's case, tackles downfield or on pass completions can stuff the stat sheet...but depending on the play...PFF mght not grade it a good play. Likewise, unblocked sacks won't boost the grade as much as you think. 

 

But they still seem very high on him...although their notion that last week against OAK was Leonard's best game to date...makes me shake my head. Watching Carr carve up the field and Doug Martin gash the defense...there is no way that was any Colts player's best performance. 

 

As for LVE, he is a very good rookie LBer. He is probably better in some areas and Leonard is better than others. I don't think his grade is undeserved. 

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shasta519 Ring of Honor

shasta519

Posted
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1 hour ago, K-148 said:

Because PFF rates not how much tackles LB got, but how he did it.

Player A covered RB so close, QB didn't even try to pass to RB or passed, but RB can't secure ball. Playing the run, Player A filled his gap nicely, RB cut outside and was tackled by DE.

Player B covered RB bad, RB took pass for 20 yards and was tackled from behind by Player B. Playing the run, Player B took bad angle, was blocked by WR and chased RB for 49 yards gain.

Official NFL statistics: Player A - 0 tackles, Player B - 2 tackles. Player A - LVE, Player B - Pat Angerer or T.J. Green. Darius is Player A-.

If I remember correctly, he was rated poor after one game because he allowed catches for more than 100 yards. That was discussed here some weeks ago.

And quantity of games or snaps played doesn't affect rate: Dante Fowler was graded 90.8 being rotational player. Safety Harris from Vikings was graded 96.3 (!) and he did not play even 50 snaps to be ranked.

 

I think that was after the PHI game. And while the grade being low as it was a bit absurd (he made more than enough plays to offset it)...I think the criticism was warranted.

 

And on that point, I am very confused by their statement that the OAK game was Leonard's best game. They must have missed the WAS game...or BUF game...or even the PHI game. 

 

PFF can be very subjective IMO...and it's just one data point. I do like it as a reference point...especially for OL players.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

 

PFF can be very subjective IMO...and it's just one data point. I do like it as a reference point...especially for OL players.

 

Are you sure?  PFF has Q. Nelson ranked as the 4th best rookie OL, behind M. McGlinchey, B. Smith, and W. Hernandez.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What's wrong with that? They're all playing well.

 

They are playing well.  I have not seen enough of McGlinchey to comment on his year, but I have read that he is playing well.  However, I do not believe that either Smith or Hernandez are playing better than Nelson.  So, IMO the worst Nelson should be is 2nd.

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shasta519 Ring of Honor

shasta519

Posted
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5 hours ago, Cynjin said:

 

Are you sure?  PFF has Q. Nelson ranked as the 4th best rookie OL, behind M. McGlinchey, B. Smith, and W. Hernandez.

 

And that could be the case...according to how they grade. McGlinchey has been a stud...and Herndandez has been very good as well. I am sort of surprised Smith is that high...but everyone is graded well on the Colts OL so it's not that surprising.

 

It's just difficult to follow how other OL players are doing (since there really isn't any production to go on)...so I like to see what PFF has to say. 

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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8 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

And that could be the case...according to how they grade. McGlinchey has been a stud...and Herndandez has been very good as well. I am sort of surprised Smith is that high...but everyone is graded well on the Colts OL so it's not that surprising.

 

It's just difficult to follow how other OL players are doing (since there really isn't any production to go on)...so I like to see what PFF has to say. 

 

I only posted it because I believe PFF's ranking methods have some big flaws, see D. Leonard's ranking among rookie LBs last week.  I have not seen enough of McGlinchey to say if he is playing better than Nelson, he may very well be.  However, I have seen enough of Hernandez and Smith and I just don't see how they can say either is playing better than Nelson.  I was happy when the Colts selected Smith, I had seen him play at Auburn and believed he was a very good prospect.  Honestly, he has played better than I thought he would at RT.  That being said, it is just another ranking that doesn't matter all that much, it's only important how well they play on the field.

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DougDew

Posted
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As another has said, I think consideration is given to how many passes have been completed against him, which then affords him the opportunity to make more tackles and increase his tackling stats.

 

Not saying that's a good way to look at it, but there is some sense to that.

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Yoshinator

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37 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Why do people pay any attention to PFF? Having Leonard ranked #2 proves these people don't know what they are talking about. 

I only pay attention to it on the O-Line, as it's hard to gauge production there as opposed to all the other positions. I wouldn't care what PFF thought if people didn't treat it like the gospel when it's very subjective. The way it grades players are ways that most football fans (of all teams) have no idea how it affects the game, and yet, they use it as a tool to brag about their favorite players being great when they have no idea how PFF's system works and that it doesn't even involve normal stats.

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Scott Pennock Ring of Honor

Scott Pennock

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I appreciate everyone's input, thank you.

 

My biggest gripe with this ranking is the magnitude of those 4 sacks....those 3 fumbles caused and the 2 recoveries when LVE has none. Not too mention the tackles for loss......Momentum changing and/or game changing plays have to weigh heavier than simply stuffing the stat sheet with tackles.

 

And I'm sorry to the poster who said unblocked sacks - while he may not have been touched he certainly timed his delayed blitzes well = great instincts.....

 

I have watched zero Cowboys games but we've all seen DL in the backfield, sideline to sideline and in the secondary.....

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Defjamz26 Ring of Honor

Defjamz26

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I take PFF with a grain of salt. Leonard is a perfect example. 2x defensive rookie of the week and 1x defensive rookie of the month. Leads the league in tackles even after missing a game. Ranked #2 rookie ILB

 

Quenton Nelson is the first OL to win offensive rookie of the month, but only the 4th rated rookie OL according to PFF.

 

PFF grades are suspect tbh.

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throwing BBZ Ring of Honor

throwing BBZ

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1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

I take PFF with a grain of salt. Leonard is a perfect example. 2x defensive rookie of the week and 1x defensive rookie of the month. Leads the league in tackles even after missing a game. Ranked #2 rookie ILB

 

Quenton Nelson is the first OL to win offensive rookie of the month, but only the 4th rated rookie OL according to PFF.

 

PFF grades are suspect tbh.

 

 

 Gee, many thought Nelson looked just ok the first 2-3 games. That doesn't count though because he was bla bla bla.

 Wasn't it game one when Leonard had those amazing 17 tackles giving up 15 completions?

Yes he is a good tackler. Forced some fumbles. Has some sacks. But they grade the Quality of executing every assignment a player has. Volume means little if others are missing assignments or you aren't making great plays.

 They both are graded very high, LVE has graded a couple points higher so far.
They are used a little differently also. I hope we add a bigger ILB like LVE next year.

























 

 

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Surge89

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On 11/2/2018 at 6:56 PM, Scott Pennock said:

I appreciate everyone's input, thank you.

 

My biggest gripe with this ranking is the magnitude of those 4 sacks....those 3 fumbles caused and the 2 recoveries when LVE has none. Not too mention the tackles for loss......Momentum changing and/or game changing plays have to weigh heavier than simply stuffing the stat sheet with tackles.

 

And I'm sorry to the poster who said unblocked sacks - while he may not have been touched he certainly timed his delayed blitzes well = great instincts.....

 

I have watched zero Cowboys games but we've all seen DL in the backfield, sideline to sideline and in the secondary.....

 

Watch LVE he's really good and a joy to watch if you like Linebacker play.  I loved him in the draft but had him behind Leonard (I thought Leonard had better pass rushing ability so more valuable, in fact in one of my first big boards I posted here I believe I had him at outside Linebacker but ended with him being a higher ceiling ILB).  LVE is playing lights out, I'm not sure I'd say he's performing better than Leonard but I don't think it's too outlandish for PFF to have this type of ranking. 

 

My opinion though is that Leonard is performing at the caliber everyone was expecting out of Roquan Smith.  Which is pro bowl material. 

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