Paradigm shift?

[dodsworth]

Are the Colt's moving away from decades of notoriously being an

offensive heavy team to changing toward a defensive juggernaut?

 

Are the Colts moving toward a "smash mouth and break your will"

type of team instead of a finesse/offensive style of football? 

 

It's early yet but it looks like we are heading in that direction 

after the first couple of games this year....one happy guy right here. 

[TDewar1987]

Yesterday's game would seem to make me think we are trending in that direction.... only time will tell. Yesterdays defensive game was amazing but its one game. Lets see if we can replicate it.

[MB-ColtsFan]

With regards to the smash mouth, break you will comment, Ballard said he was going to build the trenches first. That dictates that, yes, we are moving towards that type of team where we inflict our will over others.

 

I think the strength of each draft will dictate who gets selected (offense/defense), but when you have a QB like Luck you have to make sure he has his toys to maximize his worth.  Don't know that we'll ever be a defensive juggernaut,  but if Ballard can keep drafting players like Leonard we will be.

[chad72]

No, I do not think so. The team still goes as far as Andrew takes them. We are just more intent on balance, reducing the dependency on the QB's throwing, which will serve us better with a run game and D come January time. Timely passing from QB will still be the focal point but with balance around it on the trenches and pretty much placing talent everywhere on the team.

 

I do think we could use a few more offensive play makers. Like teams could focus on Marvin with Peyton in the early days, adding Wayne and Clark made us more potent on offense and less easier to game plan for. We need that #2 WR in a bad way.

[The Fish]

Defensive what? Juggernaut?

No. 

That was a solid effort that was aided by Alex Smith being very Alex Smith and an older AP who can't get away so easily. 

 

I liked the effort, but I don't see the 85 Bears brewing. 

[Four2itus]

I feel like the shift is towards sustained power. Even though the front office says winning now is important...and it is, but it is NOT at the sacrifice of the future. 

[Superman]

The first two weeks of this season have reminded me that it's too early to know very much about anyone yet. We thought the Bengals were terrible, and they showed that they can play some offense. We thought Washington was pretty good when they handled the Cardinals, and they couldn't hang with the Colts; if not for some mistakes, yesterday's game could have been a blowout. 

 

I think we know the Patriots are gonna be very good, it seems like the Rams are going to be a monster, and the Jags laid down some convincing evidence that they'll be a force as well. The Eagles, Falcons, Bucs, Chiefs, Vikings and Packers look like good teams as well, but I have questions about all of them. And we know there are a few bad teams (like the Raiders, wow). 

 

If we honestly assess the Colts, I think we know what they are, to a reasonable degree. They're a team with a young, developing roster and a really good QB. That means they're probably good enough to win 8 games, and maybe a couple more with good luck and Good Luck. But we haven't really seen a good opponent yet, and this team has shown that they can give up big plays on defense, turn it over on offense, stall drives, and give up a late lead. So they have a low floor.

 

And even this coming game, we'll see Wentz in his first game back from a major injury. He didn't play in preseason, we don't know if he'll be gun shy, nervous, or what. And even their defense has shown some inconsistency. So we could beat the Eagles convincingly, in Philly, and I'd still have questions about the Colts. 

 

But it's nice to see some young guys playing well, a fast and physical defense, some playmaking at QB, and an offensive scheme that gets receivers open. I think it's gonna be a fun year. 

[Four2itus]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 So we could beat the Eagles convincingly, in Philly, and I'd still have questions about the Colts. 

So true....and that would be wicked cool. 

[dodsworth]

21 minutes ago, chad72 said:

No, I do not think so. The team still goes as far as Andrew takes them. We are just more intent on balance, reducing the dependency on the QB's throwing, which will serve us better with a run game and D come January time. Timely passing from QB will still be the focal point but with balance around it on the trenches and pretty much placing talent everywhere on the team.

 

I do think we could use a few more offensive play makers. Like teams could focus on Marvin with Peyton in the early days, adding Wayne and Clark made us more potent on offense and less easier to game plan for. We need that #2 WR in a bad way.

This is along the line of the last 30 year philosophy of the 

Colts organization. Not that wr isn't an important position,

is that Ballard believes more in the linemen and defense as

opposed to skill positions.

 

High scoring and shootouts are entertaining but so is a defensive

slugfest as yesterday's game showed. 

[#12.]

Two weeks - impossible to say anything.  Week one they couldn't run the ball and were terrible on defense.  Week one was a Pagano-esque loss.  

 

As far as the defensive scheme goes, I always hated this defense under Polian and Dungy, but in watching it yesterday I thought, if you use bigger ends on early downs, bigger DTs and have a sideline-to-sideline playmaking LB, I think I might actually like it.  Now we just need the Freeney/Mathis speed rush, and for Hooker's potential ball skills to be seen and realized, you have to get a consistent rush off the edge to hurry a few throws, otherwise Hooker will be invisible.

[csmopar]

WAY too small of a sample size to say which way we are headed

[RollerColt]

I'm not sure if there is a shift, yet. Just two games in, and I'm happy as can be to at least be 1-1 instead of 0-2. 

 

The tests for me is how we fare against our division opponents. If we put on a consistent performance each week against them and some of the better teams in the NFL (Patriots?), then I'll be able to make a good commitment to what team we are. 

 

I hope we are better than people expect, and expect us to have some growing pains down the stretch. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, dodsworth said:

This is along the line of the last 30 year philosophy of the 

Colts organization. Not that wr isn't an important position,

is that Ballard believes more in the linemen and defense as

opposed to skill positions.

 

High scoring and shootouts are entertaining but so is a defensive

slugfest as yesterday's game showed. 

 

It doesn't have to be a first rounder, needs to be Day 2 picks to make an impact in the current NFL, IMO. Day 3, rounds 4 and later, it becomes more of a project than a hit probability. Not that Day 3 picks will not pan out but the probability is better with a Day 2 pick. 

[krunk]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

No, I do not think so. The team still goes as far as Andrew takes them. We are just more intent on balance, reducing the dependency on the QB's throwing, which will serve us better with a run game and D come January time. Timely passing from QB will still be the focal point but with balance around it on the trenches and pretty much placing talent everywhere on the team.

 

I do think we could use a few more offensive play makers. Like teams could focus on Marvin with Peyton in the early days, adding Wayne and Clark made us more potent on offense and less easier to game plan for. We need that #2 WR in a bad way.

I don't know. This offense sort of spreads people out and looks for the best matchup using various personnel groupings. Doesn't appear to be relient on having real high end #123 receivers. It's sort of like the Pats offense to me in that we are just looking for the open man. Seems pretty diverse and well thought out.

[lollygagger8]

We need a steady pass rush if the defense is going to take the place of the offense as the best unit on the team.

 

It's only the 2nd game, so let both the offense and defense gel a little more before make too many assumptions. 

 

I absolutely love the play calling and Eberflus calling out the defense though. Both are extremely refreshing. 

[chad72]

11 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't know. This offense sort of spreads people out and looks for the best matchup. Doesn't appear to be relient on #123 receivers. It's sort of like the Pats offense to me in that we are just looking for the open man. Seems pretty diverse and well thought out.

 

Patriots do have a top of round 2 TE in Gronk, and a bottom of round 1 RB in Sony Michel. They did invest in Jimmy Garropolo in Round 2, Shane Vereen in Round 2, Stevan Ridley in Round 3, James White in Round 4 etc. (like our Nyheim Hines in the pass catching role, so went to Round 4). While they are not filled with top round talent on skill positions, they have invested, when necessary, in a good talent to fill something they felt a clear void in. It does feel like the Patriots, at least pull the trigger on Day 2, when they feel a skill position player is necessary. That is why I was referring to, in the above post, that a Day 2 pick might be necessary, not Day 1.

 

Only time will tell if Ballard feels, along with the coaches, that it is necessary. 

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Patriots do have a top of round 2 TE in Gronk, and a bottom of round 1 RB in Sony Michel. While they are not filled with top round talent on skill positions, they have invested, when necessary, in a good talent to fill something they felt a clear void in. Only time will tell if Ballard feels, along with the coaches, that it is necessary. 

I sort of like the guys we have although I think I agree we need another guy that can go deep besides TY and Ebron. Marcus Johnson's got the speed and the size to do that, but we are just now getting him in the mix. I think we threw one pass to him yesterday. That guy would have been Deon Cain but hes hurt. Maybe Fountain later on this season maybe.

 

[chad72]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I sort of like the guys we have although I think I agree we need another guy that can go deep besides TY and Ebron. Marcus Johnson's got the speed and the size to do that, but we are just now getting him in the mix. I think we threw one pass to him yesterday.

 

To add to that, Patriots' early dynasty run RBs like Corey Dillon and Kevin Faulk were Round 2 RBs too whose talent was maximized in New England, plus Reche Caldwell and Deion Branch were second rounders. They maximized their FA acquisitions with former first rounders in Randy Moss and Donte Stallworth when they could as well. People forget to see the sum of both draft and FA when it comes to the Patriots. 

 

We had a glimpse when Luck was on the run and Doyle could not run away from his guy to get to a pass where an athletic pass catcher would have helped during a scramble. 

[dgambill]

WAY to early to tell what kind of team we have. I love that we dominated this game in the trenches on both sides of the ball! That was impressive. The defense stood very firm despite Lucks bad turnovers....we didn't give up a TD folks!! Now Washington doesn't have the playmakers say Cincy has (particularly Green) but let's be real. We didn't make the critical mistakes on defense that cost us points like we did week 1. No horrible pass interferences that extended drives or blown coverages. Defense played a complete game and the offense still has some work to do but the potential is there. I liked we were fast...we hit hard...we were aggressive. By the end of the game we had broke Washington's will to win it was clear. They felt us impose our will on them! That's a huge difference and I would LOVE to get used to it. We are still very thin...and very young. I think we can have more games like this...and I think we will have some dumb mistakes too....but this team is taking steps....the good things we did against Cincy we expounded on them against Washington. We just need to stay healthy and keep building on it....lets be consistent....but if they keep this up...we are going to have one of those teams that nobody wants to play.

[jameszeigler834]

4 minutes ago, dgambill said:

WAY to early to tell what kind of team we have. I love that we dominated this game in the trenches on both sides of the ball! That was impressive. The defense stood very firm despite Lucks bad turnovers....we didn't give up a TD folks!! Now Washington doesn't have the playmakers say Cincy has (particularly Green) but let's be real. We didn't make the critical mistakes on defense that cost us points like we did week 1. No horrible pass interferences that extended drives or blown coverages. Defense played a complete game and the offense still has some work to do but the potential is there. I liked we were fast...we hit hard...we were aggressive. By the end of the game we had broke Washington's will to win it was clear. They felt us impose our will on them! That's a huge difference and I would LOVE to get used to it. We are still very thin...and very young. I think we can have more games like this...and I think we will have some dumb mistakes too....but this team is taking steps....the good things we did against Cincy we expounded on them against Washington. We just need to stay healthy and keep building on it....lets be consistent....but if they keep this up...we are going to have one of those teams that nobody wants to play.

only one was bad other one was tipped.

[dgambill]

11 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

only one was bad other one was tipped.

Whose fault was that??? Surely not the receivers! Shouldn't he not throw the ball directly into the arms/hands of the defenders? It's one thing to have a receiver have it bounce off him and get picked or to throw a hail mary at the end of the game...but a tipped pass at the LOS shouldn't happen. Find an opening to throw it through or release your pass higher....Peyton would get up on his tippy toes to throw those short crossing passes to make sure he got it over the lineman.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

But it's nice to see some young guys playing well, a fast and physical defense, some playmaking at QB, and an offensive scheme that gets receivers open. I think it's gonna be a fun year. 

 

This part really nails it for me. I don't have any expectations about the playoffs this year, the most important thing for me is to finally see progress and development throughout the year. 

[jameszeigler834]

40 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Whose fault was that??? Surely not the receivers! Shouldn't he not throw the ball directly into the arms/hands of the defenders? It's one thing to have a receiver have it bounce off him and get picked or to throw a hail mary at the end of the game...but a tipped pass at the LOS shouldn't happen. Find an opening to throw it through or release your pass higher....Peyton would get up on his tippy toes to throw those short crossing passes to make sure he got it over the lineman.

Its the o-line's job to make sure the defenders hand don't get up there to bat a pass so in my opinion pass that are tipped for interceptions are not the QB's fault its on the o-lineman.

[BullsColtsFan1]

The defense looked great.  They need to play consistently throughout the season though.  We need to give them more than 1 good game lol.   They did look pretty darn good though.  Fast and young.  Tackle great!

[Four2itus]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

Whose fault was that??? Surely not the receivers! Shouldn't he not throw the ball directly into the arms/hands of the defenders? It's one thing to have a receiver have it bounce off him and get picked or to throw a hail mary at the end of the game...but a tipped pass at the LOS shouldn't happen. Find an opening to throw it through or release your pass higher....Peyton would get up on his tippy toes to throw those short crossing passes to make sure he got it over the lineman.

 

1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Its the o-line's job to make sure the defenders hand don't get up there to bat a pass so in my opinion pass that are tipped for interceptions are not the QB's fault its on the o-lineman.

IMO, it's the QB using his eyes to fool the defender. Luck still stares at one WR at times. 

[Defjamz26]

I think we are just seeing a more balanced Colts team overall. When fully healthy I think we’ve always compared to the Packers favorably over the years. Good on offense but never seem to have a real dominant run game. O-line that can get the QB in trouble, and a defense lacking playmakers. The Packers also only go as far as Rodgers takes them.

 

However I think Ballard has two defensive game changers in Hooker and Leonard. And that’s a part of the difference now. A GM who can actually draft and a coaching staff that has a game plan. 

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

It doesn't have to be a first rounder, needs to be Day 2 picks to make an impact in the current NFL, IMO. Day 3, rounds 4 and later, it becomes more of a project than a hit probability. Not that Day 3 picks will not pan out but the probability is better with a Day 2 pick. 

 

Agree...this team is still in need of playmakers. I hope Ballard makes a concerted effort to bring in a couple of WRs on day two...maybe even another high-end TE prospect. Would love to have Christian Kirk right now...he would fit this offense perfectly. 

[shasta519]

8 hours ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

This part really nails it for me. I don't have any expectations about the playoffs this year, the most important thing for me is to finally see progress and development throughout the year. 

 

Same here. But expectations can always change. If they go out and beat PHI...and look really good doing it...the expectations start to really change. But for now, I am just happy to see progress.

[shasta519]

9 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Patriots do have a top of round 2 TE in Gronk, and a bottom of round 1 RB in Sony Michel. They did invest in Jimmy Garropolo in Round 2, Shane Vereen in Round 2, Stevan Ridley in Round 3, James White in Round 4 etc. (like our Nyheim Hines in the pass catching role, so went to Round 4). While they are not filled with top round talent on skill positions, they have invested, when necessary, in a good talent to fill something they felt a clear void in. It does feel like the Patriots, at least pull the trigger on Day 2, when they feel a skill position player is necessary. That is why I was referring to, in the above post, that a Day 2 pick might be necessary, not Day 1.

 

Only time will tell if Ballard feels, along with the coaches, that it is necessary. 

 

Not to mention Brandin Cooks last season. They took a flyer on Dorsett and just traded for Josh Gordon. They also have drafted a handful of day two WRs in recent years.

 

The idea that NE doesn't place an emphasis on getting talented players at skill positions is not really accurate. People think of guys like Edelman, Welker and Woodhead...but forget about the rest.

[Trueman]

12 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Are the Colt's moving away from decades of notoriously being an

offensive heavy team to changing toward a defensive juggernaut?

 

Are the Colts moving toward a "smash mouth and break your will"

type of team instead of a finesse/offensive style of football? 

 

It's early yet but it looks like we are heading in that direction 

after the first couple of games this year....one happy guy right here. 

I don't want to toss labels around , but I believe Ballard wants to create more of an actual team than the Peyton era, yes. 

We just won a game on the road where Luck threw for under 200 yards and had 2 picks. I can't think of a ton of games we've won where our QB has done that. Especially on the road.

Ballard has been extremely transparent about prioritizing the trenches and I think he wants a quality defense as well. Scheme, QB play and our OL can make our skilled position groups produce.

It's just something Polian just didn't adhere to. Which honestly bothered me. And I don't even want to begin with Grigson's philosophies (whatever they were).

The goal is to be able to control games and to play complementary football on all three phases.

The goal with Peyton was to get the lead and allow our pass rushers to pin their ears back. It worked because we had a legend at QB and extremely talented pass-rushers, but it wasn't a varied method to winning. Everyone knew how we had to win.

With a more balanced team , we'll be able to win games in a multitude of ways. And a great OL (not just an OL that looks good because of the QB) really will help us immensely. 

Therefore, unless someone extremely good/unexpected slips to us, I fully expect Ballard to draft a DL/OL in the first round next season. And I hope he does.

As for the "soft" label that followed us around for years , I can't see that lasting much longer with Ballard bringing in players like Leonard and Nelson.
 

[OLD FAN MAN]

11 hours ago, #12. said:

Two weeks - impossible to say anything.  Week one they couldn't run the ball and were terrible on defense.  Week one was a Pagano-esque loss.  

 

As far as the defensive scheme goes, I always hated this defense under Polian and Dungy, but in watching it yesterday I thought, if you use bigger ends on early downs, bigger DTs and have a sideline-to-sideline playmaking LB, I think I might actually like it.  Now we just need the Freeney/Mathis speed rush, and for Hooker's potential ball skills to be seen and realized, you have to get a consistent rush off the edge to hurry a few throws, otherwise Hooker will be invisible.

i concur

[rockywoj]

16 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Its the o-line's job to make sure the defenders hand don't get up there to bat a pass so in my opinion pass that are tipped for interceptions are not the QB's fault its on the o-lineman.

And just maybe it’s not really anybody’s fault on the offence, but rather, just credit the defensive player for making a really good play.  That happens, players make plays, not at the fault of the opposition.

[Pacergeek]

Darius Leonard makes the Defense formidable. As long as he is in the lineup, the defense will be solid. 

[coltsva]

22 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

And just maybe it’s not really anybody’s fault on the offence, but rather, just credit the defensive player for making a really good play.  That happens, players make plays, not at the fault of the opposition.

That's what happened with this play. The guy didn't even put up two hands. He put up one hand and did a quick "swat" and hit the ball. He was a little backed off from the O lineman, so there was nothing that could be done. A bit lucky, but credit the D for making a play. 

[jameszeigler834]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

And just maybe it’s not really anybody’s fault on the offence, but rather, just credit the defensive player for making a really good play.  That happens, players make plays, not at the fault of the opposition.

Ya T.Y was open when Luck threw the ball the defender made a great play on it which is what I tried to say yesterday and I don't blame INT's on the QB when they get tipped and the defender makes a play and catches it the guy that picked off that tipped pass had to dive for it.

[NannyMcafee]

When you build from the trenches your team imposes their will on you both offense and defense. If done right, you can have the best of both worlds my friend. 

[dgambill]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:35 PM, jameszeigler834 said:

Its the o-line's job to make sure the defenders hand don't get up there to bat a pass so in my opinion pass that are tipped for interceptions are not the QB's fault its on the o-lineman.

I don't think that is realistic....if a defender disengages from the lineman there is little he can do...otherwise he will get end up down field or get a holding call. I think the cut block has just about all but been eliminated from the game so they can't do that anymore either. I can understand what you are saying but if we start counting that as not the qbs fault how about if the lineman lets his man get past and he causes the qb to rush his throw and he makes a bad throw. The decision to throw is the qbs. To me it's his responsibility to get the ball to the receiver...not anyone elses. Just my opinion but there are very few cases I feel it isn't his fault for an interception. I don't know how the lineman should be held for full responsibility that the qb threw the ball right at the guy he is blocking. To me that is like saying I ran into the car ahead of me because there was ice on the road and I wasn't careful. It isn't my fault there was ice (danger) but I am still responsible for driving at a safe distance and speed. It wasn't Lucks fault that the lineman was in the way...but it's still his responsibility to be safe with the ball. If a lineman can jump up and tip it...you shouldn't throw it or wait til there is an open throwing lane.