Mel Kiper: Colts & Dolphins in deep discussion of trade

[ColtStrong2013]

I have yet to see this posted on this forum... someone guide me if I am wrong. 

 

Has anyone else seen anything about this?

[Fisticuffs111]

I call shenanigans on the possibility of not getting the 11th pick. No way we trade completely out of the 1st.

 

Also here's Allbright's response to that, just to add some more speculation.

 

[PeterBowman]

Ballard did say it would take a hell of a deal to get them to move out of the 6th spot. We'll see what they could get for it.

[chad72]

6 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I call shenanigans on the possibility of not getting the 11th pick. No way we trade completely out of the 1st.

 

Also here's Allbright's response to that, just to add some more speculation.

 

 

Yeah, me too.

 

Swap of the 1st round picks, a 2nd and a future 2nd is what I would ask as Ballard for moving down from #6 to #11.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

An additional 2nd, this year (Along with pick 11) isnt a bad deal at all

 

From a points standpoint, we would come out ahead.

 

we could get 5 realistic new starters in this draft.... AND still get Edwards...(possibly)

[richard pallo]

This is a trade that I think has a high probability of happening as I have said in other posts.  I have suggested a trade that would see us acquiring their 11th pick and their starting RT Juwan James who is in his 5th yr. option and is costing them 9.5m against the cap this year.  They have cap problems we don't.  This helps them with cap space and we get a young starting RT.  We probably get another pick or two as well.  If we trade with them I would be surprised if it didn't include James. 

[TomDiggs]

5 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, me too.

 

Swap of the 1st round picks, a 2nd and a future 2nd is what I would ask as Ballard for moving down from #6 to #11.

 

 

 

Agreed on this.

 

At least (2) 2nds to fall back if it is for a franchise QB that is lingering and there is a market.

 

Also, if the Bills or someone else gives the equivalent of (3) 1s to move up (i.e. the Bills give 12, 22 and a future 1 for the #2 or #4 pick) then the price of #6 goes up if we know it is for a similarly rated QB prospect.

 

I would be good with moving back for 11, a 2 this year and a 2 next year. But that would probably be the cheapest deal I'd be willing to move for personally.

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

This is a trade that I think has a high probability of happening as I have said in other posts.  I have suggested a trade that would see us acquiring their 11th pick and their starting RT Juwan James who is in his 5th yr. option and is costing them 9.5m against the cap this year.  They have cap problems we don't.  This helps them with cap space and we get a young starting RT.  We probably get another pick or two as well.  If we trade with them I would be surprised if it didn't include James. 

is James good?

 

I dont know about moving yet.

 

I may wait right till draft day. Buffalo has some draft capitol, and picks may line up where they give us a better deal

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

is James good?

 

I dont know about moving yet.

 

I may wait right till draft day. Buffalo has some draft capitol, and picks may line up where they give us a better deal

He was their No.1 pick when they drafted him and he became a starter in that year and has been their starter ever since. They did exercise their 5th. yr. option.   Not an all pro but a solid NFL starter.  

[MikeCurtis]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

He was their No.1 pick when they drafted him and he became a starter in that year and has been their starter ever since. They did exercise their 5th. yr. option.   Not an all pro but a solid NFL starter.  

 

That would fill a BIG hole.........

 

Is he worth our 4th (for their 2nd, and 6?)   

 

Thats the tough point

 

I would still want to see whats on the table the day of the draft........

 

If someone takes Chubb and Barkley before us that leaves the last QB........

 

Buffalo may give us the farm.

 

 

However..... If i am cleveland, I am going to have a better space than the Colts for that 4th QB for a trade

 

I truly dont see this (or any) trade happening for this 6th pick. If the QBs are already gone Buffalo and Miami have no reason to play.  

[Str8himalaya]

Interesting, but I do not see how we could come close to value if we don't get their number 11 back. Not many on that roster are worth that high of a pick straight up, sounds like it could be smoke as well. Ballard has said multiple times it would take a big time offer to get us off of pick #6. Dropping to 11 could be fine if we got some good compensation after that (James, 2nd and 3rd rounder, etc.). 

[Boiler_Colt]

Don't buy it. Rumors are that the Jets are looking at Mayfield at 3 anyways.

[MikeCurtis]

This could be "upfront" dialog between the two teams that if a scenario were to occur (A QB would be available)

than would the trade be of interest

 

Why in the world would the Dolphins (Or Buffalo) make this trade without knowing a QB would be available?

 

Thats the scenario that we are in

 

If 4 of the first 5 picks are QBs, A VERY REAL, and probabaly LIKELY possibility.  (I think 80%) 

 

I dont see it happening

 

Know one fully know what the opptys are until draft day

 

We should get comfortable with the 6th pick

[ColtStrong2013]

I have said multiple times on this forum and stand firm in my belief that Ballard will wait until draft day. He's doing his homework and entertaining offers so if  2 quarterbacks fall to #6, he knows what he wants to get out of a trade... He has 100% of the leverage in any trade scenario. 

 

Sit back and watch folks. This is going to be fun. 

[PeterBowman]

15 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I have said multiple times on this forum and stand firm in my belief that Ballard will wait until draft day. He's doing his homework and entertaining offers so if  2 quarterbacks fall to #6, he knows what he wants to get out of a trade... He has 100% of the leverage in any trade scenario. 

 

Sit back and watch folks. This is going to be fun. 

I agree.....he said it's going to take a very special deal to have them move.....it's a win win either way.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

...maybe RB Kenyan Drake can be added too.

[BProland85]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, me too.

 

Swap of the 1st round picks, a 2nd and a future 2nd is what I would ask as Ballard for moving down from #6 to #11.

 

 

 

I'd rather get their 11th overall, 3rd round, and 2019 1st round pick. 

[DaColts85]

This allows Ballard to play Miami and Buffalo against each other.  The Bills have said they are trying to move and now they know the Phins are as well, at least the speculation is there to possibly drive something.  Ballard could get some good phone calls in the next few weeks.  If I am Ballard I wait until draft day though.  Build that value, even though if the QB's are gone then it hurts the trade value.  I take the risk and build to value.

[Cynjin]

11 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

 

I'd rather get their 11th overall, 3rd round, and 2019 1st round pick. 

 

I agree, I'm a broken record on this.  If the Colts trade down again,  it should include a #1 in next year's draft.

[TdungyW/12]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I have yet to see this posted on this forum... someone guide me if I am wrong. 

 

Has anyone else seen anything about this?

Ok CB hold #6 randsom and on draft day when and if a QB drops to #6 we take calls from bills/dolphins and get so many picks we won’t know who to draft!

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I call shenanigans on the possibility of not getting the 11th pick. No way we trade completely out of the 1st.

 

Also here's Allbright's response to that, just to add some more speculation.

 

 

It would have to be something silly...like the 2nd round pick and then the next two 1st round picks. I think Ballard is very keen on having as much ammo for next year's draft as possible.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, me too.

 

Swap of the 1st round picks, a 2nd and a future 2nd is what I would ask as Ballard for moving down from #6 to #11.

 

 

 

That would be a fair deal. I wonder if they could get one of MIA's 4th rounders this year as well.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

This is a trade that I think has a high probability of happening as I have said in other posts.  I have suggested a trade that would see us acquiring their 11th pick and their starting RT Juwan James who is in his 5th yr. option and is costing them 9.5m against the cap this year.  They have cap problems we don't.  This helps them with cap space and we get a young starting RT.  We probably get another pick or two as well.  If we trade with them I would be surprised if it didn't include James. 

Yup.  You are the first source for where I read it and this has been in my mind since.  Good call.  I say for pick 6 we get pick 11, their 2nd, James, and next year's 3rd.

 

And I'd do that deal before draft day to secure it, and let it roll on who falls to #11.  We at least save a pick this year by getting a RT out of the deal.

 

I'd rather have that deal with pick #11 today than waiting for draft day to get Buffalo's pick #12.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I have said multiple times on this forum and stand firm in my belief that Ballard will wait until draft day. He's doing his homework and entertaining offers so if  2 quarterbacks fall to #6, he knows what he wants to get out of a trade... He has 100% of the leverage in any trade scenario. 

 

Sit back and watch folks. This is going to be fun. 

No.  if the 4th QB is gone by pick 4 on draft day, he has absolutely no leverage.  Buff or Miami may want to move up to 6 ASAP to get into position to offer CLEV something for swapping 2 spots.  After the Browns take their QB, they are not going to love one position player over the other and will take one of the five elite players at 6, IMO.

 

Ballard should make that trade today and let BUFF and MIA take the risk on how the draft falls.  We will get a good player at 11 or 12.

 

If I was MIA, I wouldn't do it today.  if I was Ballard, I'd do it in a second.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

This is a trade that I think has a high probability of happening as I have said in other posts.  I have suggested a trade that would see us acquiring their 11th pick and their starting RT Juwan James who is in his 5th yr. option and is costing them 9.5m against the cap this year.  They have cap problems we don't.  This helps them with cap space and we get a young starting RT.  We probably get another pick or two as well.  If we trade with them I would be surprised if it didn't include James. 

 

The picks won't be "as well." If anything, taking James should increase what the Colts get back. MIA has no leverage when it comes to trading him...and likely no market (or he would have been traded by now). James costs $9.3M this year, which MIA likely can't afford. And they can't cut him because his salary is guaranteed, so they are taking the cap hit unless someone trades for him. The best they can hope for is designating him a June 1 cut and splitting the up the dead cap hits over this year and next.

 

The Colts would be doing MIA a favor for taking him off their hands. And Ballard can use that to his advantage in a trade.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Str8himalaya said:

Interesting, but I do not see how we could come close to value if we don't get their number 11 back. Not many on that roster are worth that high of a pick straight up, sounds like it could be smoke as well. Ballard has said multiple times it would take a big time offer to get us off of pick #6. Dropping to 11 could be fine if we got some good compensation after that (James, 2nd and 3rd rounder, etc.). 

 

I don't think anyone on that roster is worth nearly as much as the #11 pick. 

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

This allows Ballard to play Miami and Buffalo against each other.  The Bills have said they are trying to move and now they know the Phins are as well, at least the speculation is there to possibly drive something.  Ballard could get some good phone calls in the next few weeks.  If I am Ballard I wait until draft day though.  Build that value, even though if the QB's are gone then it hurts the trade value.  I take the risk and build to value.

 

Good point. For all we know, the Colts leaked this specifically for the purpose of leveraging BUF.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, Cynjin said:

 

I agree, I'm a broken record on this.  If the Colts trade down again,  it should include a #1 in next year's draft.

 

MIA's roster is pretty bad. I would love to have their 1st next year.

[TonyBungee]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.  if the 4th QB is gone by pick 4 on draft day, he has absolutely no leverage.  Buff or Miami may want to move up to 6 ASAP to get into position to offer CLEV something for swapping 2 spots.  After the Browns take their QB, they are not going to love one position player over the other and will take one of the five elite players at 6, IMO.

 

Ballard should make that trade today and let BUFF and MIA take the risk on how the draft falls.  We will get a good player at 11 or 12.

 

If I was MIA, I wouldn't do it today.  if I was Ballard, I'd do it in a second.

 

I tend to agree.  If it's all about getting a franchise QB, then this would be a risky move for Miami (or Buffalo).  I could easily see QBs going 1-2-3, then the Browns weighing desperate offers for #4. 

 

But while CB does have leverage, I hope he milks it.  Otherwise, I think he's ok staying at 6 & getting Chubb or Nelson.

[ColtStrong2013]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.  if the 4th QB is gone by pick 4 on draft day, he has absolutely no leverage.  Buff or Miami may want to move up to 6 ASAP to get into position to offer CLEV something for swapping 2 spots.  After the Browns take their QB, they are not going to love one position player over the other and will take one of the five elite players at 6, IMO.

 

Ballard should make that trade today and let BUFF and MIA take the risk on how the draft falls.  We will get a good player at 11 or 12.

 

If I was MIA, I wouldn't do it today.  if I was Ballard, I'd do it in a second.

He absolutely does... because it is highly unlikely all 4 go before 6... and if they do, then he likely feels good about the top of his board. 

 

Ballard put himself in a win/win position with the Jets trade. Truly. 

[ColtStrong2013]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

No.  if the 4th QB is gone by pick 4 on draft day, he has absolutely no leverage.  Buff or Miami may want to move up to 6 ASAP to get into position to offer CLEV something for swapping 2 spots.  After the Browns take their QB, they are not going to love one position player over the other and will take one of the five elite players at 6, IMO.

 

Ballard should make that trade today and let BUFF and MIA take the risk on how the draft falls.  We will get a good player at 11 or 12.

 

If I was MIA, I wouldn't do it today.  if I was Ballard, I'd do it in a second.

If you were MIA and you needed a qb, you would do whatever necessary to put yourself in position to get one. Trading to 6, might do it. But it might be the first step in moving further up also... 

 

Indy isn't the one throwing an offer out, so I'm not sure how you think they have no leverage here. We don't HAVE to trade. Miami is the one that is looking to. Ballard's just entertaining the idea until it is worth it.

[ColtStrong2013]

The more teams looking to trade into the top 6, the better offers Indy gets for #6... OR, the more likely 4 QBs come off the board ahead of 6. 

 

WIN freaking WIN for CB and the Indianapolis Colts. 

[chad72]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

 

I'd rather get their 11th overall, 3rd round, and 2019 1st round pick. 

 

That would be fantastic!!! Yes, I am coming to terms with the fact that it should be possible to get a future 1st rounder from either Bills or Dolphins, should the QB domino fall correctly before pick #6.

[TKnight24]

If anyone has a link or sound bite of the radio show that’d be great. I’m gonna keep looking to see if I can find it 

 

Lots of mixed responses here. I’ve been on board with Ballard thus far, but if he was to ever give up the #6 and not get their 1st rounder back..... I’d be highly upset. 

 

But it this is something to keep an eye on though. He did say if the price was right he’d move back again from 6. 

 

Are there any Dolphins players that could be packaged into this deal as well? Any offensive linemen? Cornerbacks? 

 

 

[Gocolts-Rolltide]

Which would make the roquan Smith workout seem alot more significant..  

[Fat Clemenza]

I don't see this trade or any trade for #6 happening until draft day and the Colts, or whoever ends up at #5, is on the clock and one or two of the top 4 qbs is still available.

 

Jets knew a QB they liked would be there at 3. Nobody's trading for #6 until they know a starting QB not named Jackson will be there. 

[pgt_rob]

Ballard has been sitting on a mound of gold. I'd just wait until draft day and see who wants to pay up.

[TKnight24]

1 minute ago, Gocolts-Rolltide said:

Which would make the roquan Smith workout seem alot more significant..  

Speed is the word buzzing around the Colts facility as the draft approaches. The new scheme really depends on it from what I’m understanding. Roquan is definitely speed 

[superrep1967]

17 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

If anyone has a link or sound bite of the radio show that’d be great. I’m gonna keep looking to see if I can find it 

 

Lots of mixed responses here. I’ve been on board with Ballard thus far, but if he was to ever give up the #6 and not get their 1st rounder back..... I’d be highly upset. 

 

But it this is something to keep an eye on though. He did say if the price was right he’d move back again from 6. 

 

Are there any Dolphins players that could be packaged into this deal as well? Any offensive linemen? Cornerbacks? 

 

 

I'd go for it if we get a great return for it. I mean this could work out great for us if we play our cards right. But if all we get is there 11th pick and another 2nd rounder in return I probably wouldn't do it. So like you said we'd need current players to go with it. 

[bananabucket]

I would hope we would only do this if the big 3 are off the board.  If they are, this is a no brainer provided the compensation is right.  Take Roquan or Landry at 11 then have 4 second rounders to work with.