Gregg Doyel: Colts are too incompetent to be deceitful

[BlueShoe]

Doyel explains the history of how the Colts handled Andrew Luck’s 2015 shoulder injury that eventually shut him down in November 2017.

 

He cited incompetence as his main source. 

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/11/02/andrew-luck-injured-reserve-colts-incompetent-gregg-doyel/826540001/

[lollygagger8]

[Roger]

This is why the front office has zero credibility. Statements that are absolute, without any hedging that turn out wrong.

 

 

[DougDew]

This is probably the first time I've agreed with Doyel.  And why Cowherd is wrong.  This isn't some master plan created by a silent puppet-master pulling strings from behind a curtain.  Events unfold as they happen and most of it is driven by short-term win now thinking, so the bad decisions pile up.

 

Although I have to say, Doyel's writing style still reeks of bitter class warfare jealousy, because Irsay is rich.  So I have to hold my nose when I say that I agree with his basic point.

[BlueShoe]

33 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

His timeline sure makes sense. 

[DaColts85]

Gregg Doyel is such a bitter whiner.  He is nothing more than a click bait writer who focuses all his pieces as a fan view versus an actual journalist.  He makes it sound like they kept a gun to Luck's head all 2015 and 2016 to make sure he was playing.  LUCK has a HUGE say in whether he plays or what treatment they do.  He tries to make a point with the 2015 year:

 

"A well-run franchise shuts down Luck after the Denver game on Nov. 8, 2015, and orders surgery on his shoulder. That would have given him almost 10 months to rest, recuperate and rehabilitate before the 2016 season opener.

But, no. The 2015 Colts were not well-run. They strung him along, missed the 2015 playoffs, gave Luck what was at the time the richest contract in NFL history, and then let him go into the 2016 season with a shoulder so sore, he couldn’t throw every day in practice starting from the first week of the 2016 season."

 

Reading this you can clearly see the "fan" speak.  Whinning about us not forcing him to sit in 2015 and then he gets hurt.  Oh yea everyone should have known that Luck was going to go out there and be in a hard collision hurting his kidney.  He then tries to leave the reader in agreement when he mentions the bolded.  No one was strung along.  After the Denver game he did not play another.  So this gets put back on Irsay?  Pagano?  Maybe Grigson I guess?  More like the medical staff not doing enough due-diligence to find the shoulder issue.  This again ALL has to do with Andrew as well.  He is a key deciding factor for a lot of things that happen to his body.  Gregg Doyel is not that deciding factor.

 

Just not a fan of his, sorry....

[Valpo2004]

Here is my thing.  When Luck's shoulder first got injured, couldn't an MRI tell them the labrum was partially torn?  And if that's the case how in the world did they think it was just going to get better?  

 

The other thing is though in 2015, Pagano and Grigson's jobs shouldn't have been on the line.  In 2015 we where off of 3 straight 11 win seasons which concluded with a trip to the AFC championship game.  So the jobs on the line excuse shouldn't have been there.

[Nadine]

1 hour ago, BlueShoe said:

He cited incompetence as his main source

 

So shocking 

[Gramz]

[Nadine]

The only thing that I do wonder about is how much a coach and a GM who have their jobs on the line played into all this.

 

Andrew knows his shoulder is his career.  He's a smart guy and he's the one that has to live with the decisions.  I don't think his competitive spirit would cause him to make decisions against his own self interests.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, DaColts85 said:

Gregg Doyel is such a bitter whiner.  He is nothing more than a click bait writer who focuses all his pieces as a fan view versus an actual journalist.  He makes it sound like they kept a gun to Luck's head all 2015 and 2016 to make sure he was playing.  LUCK has a HUGE say in whether he plays or what treatment they do.  He tries to make a point with the 2015 year:

 

"A well-run franchise shuts down Luck after the Denver game on Nov. 8, 2015, and orders surgery on his shoulder. That would have given him almost 10 months to rest, recuperate and rehabilitate before the 2016 season opener.

But, no. The 2015 Colts were not well-run. They strung him along, missed the 2015 playoffs, gave Luck what was at the time the richest contract in NFL history, and then let him go into the 2016 season with a shoulder so sore, he couldn’t throw every day in practice starting from the first week of the 2016 season."

 

Reading this you can clearly see the "fan" speak.  Whinning about us not forcing him to sit in 2015 and then he gets hurt.  Oh yea everyone should have known that Luck was going to go out there and be in a hard collision hurting his kidney.  He then tries to leave the reader in agreement when he mentions the bolded.  No one was strung along.  After the Denver game he did not play another.  So this gets put back on Irsay?  Pagano?  Maybe Grigson I guess?  More like the medical staff not doing enough due-diligence to find the shoulder issue.  This again ALL has to do with Andrew as well.  He is a key deciding factor for a lot of things that happen to his body.  Gregg Doyel is not that deciding factor.

 

Just not a fan of his, sorry....

That was the part that set me off too.  Doyel always writes articles that depict Irsay or anybody with means and power to be like the "Mr. Potter" scrooge character in the movie Its A Wonderful Life.  That rich powerful people by definition keep "little people" under their thumb to control them.....because that's how people get rich and powerful in the first place.  

 

That point of view really bleeds into everything he writes and reveals a personality and view of the world that's disturbing, IMO.

 

BTW, a well run organization who is in position to win a super bowl by winning a few more games in 2015 would probably play the QB if he is of no risk to further damage the shoulder (he can always get injured again by playing any game).

 

But the idea that Luck should have been properly repaired before the start of the 2016 season is correct on Doyel's part.  IMO.

[DaColts85]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But the idea that Luck should have been properly repaired before the start of the 2016 season is correct on Doyel's part.  IMO.

I agree his shoulder should have been looked at and it probably was.  Now more due-diligence probably could have been done but Doyel trying to say the team should have ordered surgery to fix him for 2016.  You cannot order anything on Luck.  It is his choice and they reported that Luck wanted to do some types of rehab before going under the knife.  You can't (Doyel for sure can't) force Luck to do anything.  If he is saying he is fine and wants to play, you are going to play him.  

[Jaric]

Anyone else get the sense the only thing that gets Doyle out of bed is the chance to write angry articles about the Colts?

 

I'm fine with critisisms, but it loses effectiveness if youre obviously revelling in the negativity.  

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Valpo2004 said:

Here is my thing.  When Luck's shoulder first got injured, couldn't an MRI tell them the labrum was partially torn?  And if that's the case how in the world did they think it was just going to get better?  

 

The other thing is though in 2015, Pagano and Grigson's jobs shouldn't have been on the line.  In 2015 we where off of 3 straight 11 win seasons which concluded with a trip to the AFC championship game.  So the jobs on the line excuse shouldn't have been there.

As someone who also tore my labrum slightly back in 2014, if the tear is below a certain size, the recommendation for treatment is no surgery, just rest and time.  Now, I'm not an NFL QB and could afford to make sure I didn't over use my shoulder.  about 8 months later, my tear was completely healed on the MRI and I felt fine.   So it is possible that the slight tear Luck had, increased in size to the point it where it needed surgery or its possible it just didnt heal, or perhaps it did heal but re-tore last season. 

 

Lots of maybes in this paragraph but I am thinking it was just pure mishandling by the previous management and that Ballard is handling this situation correctly going forward. 

 

 

I watched Ballard's interview last night.  I'm fairly confident he was being truthful in everything he said.  I'm trained by the military to interview people and watch for signs they maybe lying, signs that people cannot control no matter how much training or practice as its unconscious and autonomous actions that happen when we lie , been doing it for 13 years now, Ballard didn't exhibit anything that suggests he was being untruthful. 

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I agree his shoulder should have been looked at and it probably was.  Now more due-diligence probably could have been done but Doyel trying to say the team should have ordered surgery to fix him for 2016.  You cannot order anything on Luck.  It is his choice and they reported that Luck wanted to do some types of rehab before going under the knife.  You can't (Doyel for sure can't) force Luck to do anything.  If he is saying he is fine and wants to play, you are going to play him.  

I agree.  Just like taking sacks, Luck is bears more responsibility for his situation than what many fans or media want to acknowledge.  The article is written like every decision was commanded from the top down.

[SteelCityColt]

15 minutes ago, Jaric said:

Anyone else get the sense the only thing that gets Doyle out of bed is the chance to write angry articles about the Colts?

 

I'm fine with critisisms, but it loses effectiveness if youre obviously revelling in the negativity.  

 

Every pony needs it’s trick.

[BlueShoe]

29 minutes ago, Jaric said:

Anyone else get the sense the only thing that gets Doyle out of bed is the chance to write angry articles about the Colts?

 

I'm fine with critisisms, but it loses effectiveness if youre obviously revelling in the negativity.  

 

He will probably take it too far. Right now, I think it’s needed. Not all fans are die-hard like us on this board. That is not say only die-hard fans post on this board, because not all have a desire to discuss the issues in an open forum. There have been times when things have gotten so crazy in Coltsland that I have taken a month or so off from this board. 

 

However, we would average 100,000 fans posting on this board daily if all Colts fans were as die-hard as we are. I believe that most NFL/Colts fans are casual. 

 

A casual fan might read a few of his articles and get a better understanding of the Colts situation. I think fans of all types should have the opportunity to vent frustration. Therefore, Doyel’s negativity is currently feeding a need. 

 

That said, if he continues to pound the gloom and doom then that’s what he becomes. That mentality can have an huge impact on his career. For some it doesn’t work out very well, but let’s not forget that this same approach somehow made Kravitz a respected Colts beat writer. 

[The Fish]

Why is Doyel what's being discussed? His ideas are what's important here.

I'm split on his point. I don't think Ballard get's drug into this. I think Grigson is on par with Matt Millen and Ritch Kotite..

 

I do think there was some serious greed on all parties part to not have this dealt with sooner. In retrospect there's really no reason that it shouldn't have happened last year if rest/rehab wasn't cutting it (which I guess it was, he played 15 games... But that's hindsight- and yes, job's were/are on the line.

 

I think there's some nuance Greg is glossing over, but he's generally more or less right. The timeline does make the organization look derpy.

[GoColts8818]

The biggest flaw with Andrew having surgery after the Denver game theory was that Will Carroll did an article right after it was announced Luck had surgery saying surgery was the final option because it was the most high risk interns of Luck being able to play again. I believe the Colts and Luck explored all other options before going for surgery if Carroll was right.

 

Doyel has the benefit of 20/20 hindsite.  I don’t believe the Colts handled this as well as they could have but I don’t think they are as clueless as Doyel wands fo think either.  Like normal, I would say the truth rests someplace in the middle.

[BlueShoe]

25 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

The biggest flaw with Andrew having surgery after the Denver game theory was that Will Carroll did an article right after it was announced Luck had surgery saying surgery was the final option because it was the most high risk interns of Luck being able to play again. I believe the Colts and Luck explored all other options before going for surgery if Carroll was right.

 

Doyel has the benefit of 20/20 hindsite.  I don’t believe the Colts handled this as well as they could have but I don’t think they are as clueless as Doyel wands fo think either.  Like normal, I would say the truth rests someplace in the middle.

 

There’s absolutely the benefit of hindsight 20/20. I am with you about attempting to find the middle. I typically try to stay there. I am not usually a fan of extremes. That said, they do exists.

 

For example, a record of 2-14 is an extremely bad record. 

[DougDew]

53 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Why is Doyel what's being discussed? His ideas are what's important here.

I'm split on his point. I don't think Ballard get's drug into this. I think Grigson is on par with Matt Millen and Ritch Kotite..

 

I do think there was some serious greed on all parties part to not have this dealt with sooner. In retrospect there's really no reason that it shouldn't have happened last year if rest/rehab wasn't cutting it (which I guess it was, he played 15 games... But that's hindsight- and yes, job's were/are on the line.

 

I think there's some nuance Greg is glossing over, but he's generally more or less right. The timeline does make the organization look derpy.

I think the article accurately points out that decisions were made out of short term thinking than what was best for the long term.

 

But the real point of the article...even the headline...is the incompetence of the people who make the decisions.  Doyel says the same thing about the roster when we lose.

 

His articles are generally about the same thing over and over, how dopey Irsay and his former bully GM are. 

 

He just uses different current events to make that point.

[Luck is Good]

Doyel is actually right here. Colts organization is so clueless that it’s unreal. They don’t know what they’re doing

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

As someone who also tore my labrum slightly back in 2014, if the tear is below a certain size, the recommendation for treatment is no surgery, just rest and time.  Now, I'm not an NFL QB and could afford to make sure I didn't over use my shoulder.  about 8 months later, my tear was completely healed on the MRI and I felt fine.   So it is possible that the slight tear Luck had, increased in size to the point it where it needed surgery or its possible it just didnt heal, or perhaps it did heal but re-tore last season. 

 

Lots of maybes in this paragraph but I am thinking it was just pure mishandling by the previous management and that Ballard is handling this situation correctly going forward. 

 

 

I watched Ballard's interview last night.  I'm fairly confident he was being truthful in everything he said.  I'm trained by the military to interview people and watch for signs they maybe lying, signs that people cannot control no matter how much training or practice as its unconscious and autonomous actions that happen when we lie , been doing it for 13 years now, Ballard didn't exhibit anything that suggests he was being untruthful. 

Too bad that is lost on this message board (trained to see liars)...it would be real helpful sometimes around here!! lol

[BlueShoe]

33 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Too bad that is lost on this message board (trained to see liars)...it would be real helpful sometimes around here!! lol

 

LOL. Maybe they can open up a Snapchat area on the board for visual clues. 

 

 

To the always literal folks, that’s a joke. 

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

LOL. Maybe they can open up a Snapchat area on the board for visual clues. 

Oh God no!! I don't think anyone wants that lol.

[BlueShoe]

13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Oh God no!! I don't think anyone wants that lol.

 

Yeah. I have never used Snapchat before. LOL

 

Lighten up. It was a joke.  

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

 

Yeah. I have never used Snapchat before. LOL

 

I would probably steer clear of that section. 

Indeed.....I can see my wife now..."WHO ARE YOU SNAPCHATTING WITH!!".....me..."O just the guys talking football!".....sure!!!! Plus I don't think anyone really wants to see most of us in our t-shirts and boxers eating Cheetos while playing arm chair GM...at least I sure don't!

[BlueShoe]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Indeed.....I can see my wife now..."WHO ARE YOU SNAPCHATTING WITH!!".....me..."O just the guys talking football!".....sure!!!! Plus I don't think anyone really wants to see most of us in our t-shirts and boxers eating Cheetos while playing arm chair GM...at least I sure don't!

 

Just tell her his name is Jake and he is wearing Khakis. 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Too bad that is lost on this message board (trained to see liars)...it would be real helpful sometimes around here!! lol

yes yes it is

[Roger]

3 hours ago, Jaric said:

Anyone else get the sense the only thing that gets Doyle out of bed is the chance to write angry articles about the Colts?

 

I'm fine with critisisms, but it loses effectiveness if youre obviously revelling in the negativity.  

Lately, that's what the Colts have given the fans - nothing positive.  The team sucks this season, the franchise QB won't have played a snap in 18 months, and many are sick of the happy talk.

[SteelCityColt]

3 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

 

There’s absolutely the benefit of hindsight 20/20. I am with you about attempting to find the middle. I typically try to stay there. I am not usually a fan of extremes. That said, they do exists.

 

For example, a record of 2-14 is an extremely bad record. 

 

But not as extreme as 0-16 

 

[coltsfeva]

4 hours ago, Jaric said:

Anyone else get the sense the only thing that gets Doyle out of bed is the chance to write angry articles about the Colts?

 

I'm fine with critisisms, but it loses effectiveness if youre obviously revelling in the negativity.  

   King of hypocritical for Doyle to cal anyone incompetent...

[GoColts8818]

JMV said on his radio show yesterday he knows for a fact the Colts weren’t lying.  JMV isn’t the kind of guy to say something like that unless he really knew for a fact.

[crazycolt1]

33 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

JMV said on his radio show yesterday he knows for a fact the Colts weren’t lying.  JMV isn’t the kind of guy to say something like that unless he really knew for a fact.

But that don't fit the narrative of the ones who want to point a finger and call someone a liar. They take their own frustration and feel the need to grasp at horse dung and then want to believe it. Then they turn around and want everyone to believe it and when someone don't they call them everything from homers to stupid.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I bet Doyel is just a bundle of joy to hang out with at parties, the life of the party  What a negative miserable person.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I bet Doyel is just a bundle of joy to hang out with at parties, the life of the party  What a negative miserable person.

What is aggravating about it is most all the media hounds just pile on more negative issues and make issues where there are none. These ideas enter their minds and they feed horse dung to those who are ready to believe anything.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

What is aggravating about it is most all the media hounds just pile on more negative issues and make issues where there are none. These ideas enter their minds and they feed horse dung to those who are ready to believe anything.

I agree 100% but some people are dumb enough to buy into the dung  

[John Waylon]

I think he's trying to get fired. Between his rant in the post-Jags game video and this it just seems like he's trying to step over the line and get himself cut loose. 

 

Most of what he wrote was just corralling hindsight into a straw man argument.

 

I could set up a website and write articles all day about how the Colts should have drafted better under Grigson and use some of the awful draft picks as evidence, but it's not very compelling. 

 

That's basically all this is.

[ReMeDy]

On 11/3/2017 at 8:57 AM, Nadine said:

The only thing that I do wonder about is how much a coach and a GM who have their jobs on the line played into all this.

 

Andrew knows his shoulder is his career.

 

That's actually a fun fan theory. It's like when the little brother pretends his big brother injured him, screams to mom, and mom punishes the big brother, only this time the mother is Jim Irsay. Not saying Luck is doing this, but how funny would it be if Luck was somewhat faking his injury to hold coach Pagano hostage to get him fired?

[crazycolt1]

33 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I think he's trying to get fired. Between his rant in the post-Jags game video and this it just seems like he's trying to step over the line and get himself cut loose. 

 

Most of what he wrote was just corralling hindsight into a straw man argument.

 

I could set up a website and write articles all day about how the Colts should have drafted better under Grigson and use some of the awful draft picks as evidence, but it's not very compelling. 

 

That's basically all this is.

I also think he is using this time in the Colts bad times as to make himself relevant and draw attention to himself. He is losing grip.