[Will Carroll] Ballard and Irsays have already compiled coaching short lists. No unexpected names. Unlikely to fire Pagano in-season

[csmopar]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

What about it? Chuck won 8 games with 5 different QBs

Luck played 15 games last season..... There was only 1 game that he missed.  Yet they went 8-8.

 

I'll give you 2015. but not last year.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 minutes ago, csmopar said:

  What's your excuse for last year......

8-8 with last years defense and Luck playing hurt, and a cruddy OL I think was pretty good!!

[csmopar]

Just now, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

8-8 with last years defense and Luck playing hurt, and a cruddy OL I think was pretty good!!

You mean Luck's best statistical year of his career?

[crazycolt1]

Just now, csmopar said:

Luck played 15 games last season..... There was only 1 game that he missed.  Yet they went 8-8.

 

I'll give you 2015. but not last year.

I thought you referring to that year.   Don't matter, all of you have your mind made up and this has already been talked about too much as it is. Hashing all this all over serves no purpose.

[PrincetonTiger]

15 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Bellick getts pass's on his mistakes because he wins with superior talent, lets see haw good Green Bay is without Rodgers playing. I GUARANTEE NOT GOOD. Is that because of coaching I think not maybe because of the QB, being out YUP

So true

[crazycolt1]

Just now, csmopar said:

You mean Luck's best statistical year of his career?

With a defense that couldn't maintain a lead?  Yep, just keep overlooking those type of things.

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I thought you referring to that year.   Don't matter, all of you have your mind made up and this has already been talked about too much as it is. Hashing all this all over serves no purpose.

Actually, my mind isn't made up. But I'm not seeing how Pagano is retained.  

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

With a defense that couldn't maintain a lead?  Yep, just keep overlooking those type of things.

You mean a Defense that is coached by a supposed Defensive guru, yet every year he's been a head coach, his D has ranked in the bottom of the league every year thru two different coordinators?  

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

You mean Luck's best statistical year of his career?

Watch the Denver game Luck LOST the because he played so badly, I have had 3 of the surgries Luck has had 2 on more throwing shoulder I know what its like to play threw that . Luck played no doubt drugged up last year. There we times he just plan missed wide open guys, IMO due to the injury. A healthy Luck probably produces MORE WINS and a better year!!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Actually, my mind isn't made up. But I'm not seeing how Pagano is retained.  

You mean a Defense that is coached by a supposed Defensive guru, yet every year he's been a head coach, his D has ranked in the bottom of the league every year thru two different coordinators?  

With a GM who gave him No defensive talent!  Without talent its hard to coach, I know this from experience!!

[ColtsBlitz]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

You mean a Defense that is coached by a supposed Defensive guru, yet every year he's been a head coach, his D has ranked in the bottom of the league every year thru two different coordinators?  

Name a defensive player besides Anderson that Grigson brought in and is still making an impact. We have drafted no impact defensive players for some time besides the ones this year and expected Pagano and staff to make a clay statue with dry dirt. Too bad for Pagano that he made bad coaching decisions through his time here, including hiring the current coordinators, otherwise he wouldn't need to go, but the mistakes he's made can't be ignored. He just didn't get any help from our former GM to give him a better situation with no excuses. 

[TheMarine]

While I can see the need to value Pagano's loyalty and not wanting to fire mid-season, I doubt any HC candidate would look at the situation and NOT want it just because the Colts let the dead man walk before the Bye Week. Even now, no one can argue that Pagano hasn't been given every chance to prove himself but:

 

Talent is developing, as little as there is
Same game management mistakes
0 Attempt to adjust schemes to players

And others spoken ad nauseum

 

My choices are 
Toub
Russ Grimm
Matt Patricia

For the next HC here in Indy

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Name a defensive player besides Anderson that Grigson brought in and is still making an impact. We have drafted no impact defensive players for some time besides the ones this year and expected Pagano and staff to make a clay statue with dry dirt. Too bad for Pagano that he made bad coaching decisions through his time here, including hiring the current coordinators, otherwise he wouldn't need to go, but the mistakes he's made can't be ignored. He just didn't get any help from our former GM to give him a better situation with no excuses. 

The said thing is that some of his targets didn’t come(Butler) 

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

While I can see the need to value Pagano's loyalty and not wanting to fire mid-season, I doubt any HC candidate would look at the situation and NOT want it just because the Colts let the dead man walk before the Bye Week. Even now, no one can argue that Pagano hasn't been given every chance to prove himself but:

 

Talent is developing, as little as there is
Same game management mistakes
0 Attempt to adjust schemes to players

And others spoken ad nauseum

 

My choices are 
Toub
Russ Grimm
Matt Patricia

For the next HC here in Indy

Nice names but some HC candidates and/or FA might be scared off because of the appearance of a quick trigger

[Crush22]

 

[TheMarine]

3 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Nice names but some HC candidates and/or FA might be scared off because of the appearance of a quick trigger

 

Pagano...

 

Quick Trigger...

 

Wat?

 

He's been dead man walking for 1 and a half season now

[JColts72]

15 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Nice names but some HC candidates and/or FA might be scared off because of the appearance of a quick trigger

 

20 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

While I can see the need to value Pagano's loyalty and not wanting to fire mid-season, I doubt any HC candidate would look at the situation and NOT want it just because the Colts let the dead man walk before the Bye Week. Even now, no one can argue that Pagano hasn't been given every chance to prove himself but:

 

Talent is developing, as little as there is
Same game management mistakes
0 Attempt to adjust schemes to players

And others spoken ad nauseum

 

My choices are 
Toub
Russ Grimm
Matt Patricia

For the next HC here in Indy

Blah. Rather see Pats OC

[indy1888]

1 hour ago, Shafty138 said:

Anyone who can't see they've already been loyal to Pagano to the point of this teams demise..... is not someone I would want coaching this team.  No one in their right mind could question whether Pagano was given a fair chance.....

 

Very true.  You could easily argue Irsay has been incompetent in sticking with Pagano as long as he has. Furthermore, Irsay must be thinking a bigger name coach and not a first timer, because any guy looking for his first head coaching job is going to jump at the chance and not care one bit how long Irsay stuck with a struggling coach like Pagano.

[PrincetonTiger]

4 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

 

Blah. Rather see Pats OC

He already bombed out in Denver

[csmopar]

26 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

With a GM who gave him No defensive talent!  Without talent its hard to coach, I know this from experience!!

I love how all of a sudden, everyone on this forum is suddenly an experienced NFL head coach....

23 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Name a defensive player besides Anderson that Grigson brought in and is still making an impact. We have drafted no impact defensive players for some time besides the ones this year and expected Pagano and staff to make a clay statue with dry dirt. Too bad for Pagano that he made bad coaching decisions through his time here, including hiring the current coordinators, otherwise he wouldn't need to go, but the mistakes he's made can't be ignored. He just didn't get any help from our former GM to give him a better situation with no excuses. 

I'm not saying this is all on Pagano. But we already took care of 1/3 of the problem with Grigson fired, Ballard is working on fixing the other 1/3(lack of talent) the only thing left to try to fix is the coaching problem and thus it falls on Pagano. 

[PrincetonTiger]

15 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

 

Pagano...

 

Quick Trigger...

 

Wat?

 

He's been dead man walking for 1 and a half season now

If you fire a coach in mid season their is often a perception that a new coach will have a short leash and will drive some off

[OHColtfan]

Chuck was hired in 2012, that puts him 10th in seniority among NFL head coaches. Quick trigger???? There are 22 other coaches who have had a shorter tenure than he has and some teams have hired multiple head coaches since 2012 (San Fran, Buffalo, Jax, Tampa Bay, etc) I don't think any reasonable coach is going to be put off of the Colts no matter how we fire Pagano... now if we put him on the rack, skin him and salt him, maybe someone will think twice. But Chuck has gotten a second contract and years at the helm I think we are OK. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_head_coaches#cite_note-2

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Really?  He was doomed when this season started. He was given a team that don't have enough talent to be competitive in the NFL.

 

This is simply not true.  the Colts have been competitive in all but 2 games.  In each of the other games, they led going into the second half and in all but one of those games they were leading heading into the 4th quarter.  An inexperienced QB throwing an inopportune Pick-6 I can accept and get past.  Poor game planning, not taking advantage of other teams' weaknesses, not challenging the Mack TD vs. the Rams, playing excessive prevent defense waaaaay to early in games, taking all creativity out of offensive playcalling once you have a lead, a complete inability to make 2nd half adjustments...none of these things have anything to do with the talent, or lack thereof, on the team.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

In the same vein no coaching change will make the current roster a SB contender

 

SB contender, probably not. But it's hard to debate that a better coach could easily have this team at 5-2 or 4-3 right now.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Here's the question, will a name coach want to come here while Luck's long term health is uncertain?

 

and that's exactly why Luck still should play if he is fully cleared, even if it's only in the final game of the season.  But, if they've determined his setbacks are enough to warrant him going on IR now, so be it.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

57 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

While I can see the need to value Pagano's loyalty and not wanting to fire mid-season, I doubt any HC candidate would look at the situation and NOT want it just because the Colts let the dead man walk before the Bye Week. Even now, no one can argue that Pagano hasn't been given every chance to prove himself but:

 

Talent is developing, as little as there is
Same game management mistakes
0 Attempt to adjust schemes to players

And others spoken ad nauseum

 

My choices are 
Toub
Russ Grimm
Matt Patricia

For the next HC here in Indy

 

Okay, I gotta know... what is the deal with this David Toub guy, and why does everyone want him so badly? If there's anyone I'm going for from that coaching staff, it's their offensive coordinator, not their special teams guy. I've seen Toub's name thrown around for the past few months like he's a shoe in for the gig, and I don't get it. Why would we promote a special teams coordinator to head coach? That seems like a terrible idea to me.

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Okay, I gotta know... what is the deal with this David Toub guy, and why does everyone want him so badly? If there's anyone I'm going for from that coaching staff, it's their offensive coordinator, not their special teams guy. I've seen Toub's name thrown around for the past few months like he's a shoe in for the gig, and I don't get it. Why would we promote a special teams coordinator to head coach? That seems like a terrible idea to me.

 

it's all because, after Ballard had his first interview with Irsay, an anonymous report came out that Ballard wanted the job but only if he could bring Toub with him as HC.  This was never substantiated by anything other than an anonymous source and Ballard took the job, I think, the next day.  I never believed the rumor for the simple fact I don't believe that  Ballard would not want to do a full and complete search interviewing as many candidates as possible before selecting his very first HC.  

 

However, many remember that and just assume that Toub is going to be the guy.  Yes, he has had a couple of interviews the past couple of years for HC vacancies, but his name didn't start popping up on this site with regularity until after that report.

[BlueShoe]

2 hours ago, Shafty138 said:

Anyone who can't see they've already been loyal to Pagano to the point of this teams demise..... is not someone I would want coaching this team.  No one in their right mind could question whether Pagano was given a fair chance.....

 

100% AGREE!!!

 

We literally lifted every rock around the building trying to justify Chuck Pagano's existence.

 

We have fired our offensive and defensive coordinators, and also fired a general manager. We made Chuck the last person to blame. Unless we want to repeat this process over again, then there is absolutely no one else left to blame.

 

If I am offered by the Colts then I am signing the contract before the papers hit the desk!

[NewEra]

I want Pagano gone but I fail to see the point of firing him now. He’s doing such a good job of getting us a high draft pick why screw ghat up? Lol

[Steamboat_Shaun]

6 minutes ago, J@son said:

it's all because, after Ballard had his first interview with Irsay, an anonymous report came out that Ballard wanted the job but only if he could bring Toub with him as HC.

 

Right, and that's just the thing. I want to know how it shifted from that, to "Dave Toub is easily my first choice to replace Chuck Pagano this offseason" for so many Colts fans. It's not just on this site, it's on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, pretty much everywhere.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Name a defensive player besides Anderson that Grigson brought in and is still making an impact. We have drafted no impact defensive players for some time besides the ones this year and expected Pagano and staff to make a clay statue with dry dirt. Too bad for Pagano that he made bad coaching decisions through his time here, including hiring the current coordinators, otherwise he wouldn't need to go, but the mistakes he's made can't be ignored. He just didn't get any help from our former GM to give him a better situation with no excuses. 

 

That's not entirely fair. I typically stay out of these discussions, but Pagano's fingerprints are all over this roster.

 

I was an avid anti-Grigson guy since probably June of 2013 (worst offseason of all time...and that was BEFORE the TRich trade)...but the last few years Pagano has had an influence on the roster moves of this team.  

[Restored]

53 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

If you fire a coach in mid season their is often a perception that a new coach will have a short leash and will drive some off

 

Which is why the Colts have rarely, if ever, fired a head coach during the season.

 

But to another point, this will be the best head coaching vacancy available to a prospective coach:

 

-Solid ownership

-Good GM that has connections all across the league.

-Good QB coming back next season.

-Top 5/10 draft pick

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Right, and that's just the thing. I want to know how it shifted from that, to "Dave Toub is easily my first choice to replace Chuck Pagano this offseason" for so many Colts fans. It's not just on this site, it's on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, pretty much everywhere.

 

oh believe me I'd love to know that too...but none of them will even admit that's the only reason they know the guy's name lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

We are obviously going to be much better next season assuming Andrew is 100% and plays. He alone makes a 4 or 5 game difference in the team. Without him we look like a 5-11 team, with him we have never been worse than 8-8 and with any kind of Defense we can go 10-6/11-5 as Andrew has proved 3 times. Mack is going to be Very Good IMO, he already looks Good. With another Draft I think there is no way we are below .500 next season if Andrew is 100%.  A new Coach should revive the players as well.

[Defjamz26]

Pagano has been given more than a fair chance. He’s been given too many chances. For those saying that Grigson gave him nothing to work with, what is the solution the? Let him coach another 3-4 years and wait for every drafted player to develop and put pressure on Ballard to hit on every single offseason signing and draft pick? Wait till every single starter is 100% healthy, and wait till no one drops a pass, fumbles, or misses a tackle?Pagano isn’t a coach worth holding your breath for. He’s shown he’s inept. Grigson was terrible but it doesn’t mean Pagano is free from blame.

[BR-549]

33 minutes ago, J@son said:

Poor game planning, not taking advantage of other teams' weaknesses, not challenging the Mack TD vs. the Rams, playing excessive prevent defense waaaaay to early in games, taking all creativity out of offensive playcalling once you have a lead, a complete inability to make 2nd half adjustments...none of these things have anything to do with the talent, or lack thereof, on the team.

Sad thing is none of what you have mentioned here just started happening this year.  All of these things (or similar) have been collectively consistent throughout his time in Indy.... Yet.. Here we are.

 

I am officially over Chuck.

 

[Surge89]

46 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Okay, I gotta know... what is the deal with this David Toub guy, and why does everyone want him so badly? If there's anyone I'm going for from that coaching staff, it's their offensive coordinator, not their special teams guy. I've seen Toub's name thrown around for the past few months like he's a shoe in for the gig, and I don't get it. Why would we promote a special teams coordinator to head coach? That seems like a terrible idea to me.

 

I'm not in the camp who "wants him badly" but I'd be glad to give him a try. 

 

He's quite possibly one of the greatest special teams coaches to ever coach.  He has familiarity with alot of successful eras of franchises. He has been deemed a talent to scheme expert by many peers and he's been on a ton of short lists for previous head coach positions. 

 

He is quite the prospect but would be a risky one.  

[krunk]

36 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Pagano has been given more than a fair chance. He’s been given too many chances. For those saying that Grigson gave him nothing to work with, what is the solution the? Let him coach another 3-4 years and wait for every drafted player to develop and put pressure on Ballard to hit on every single offseason signing and draft pick? Wait till every single starter is 100% healthy, and wait till no one drops a pass, fumbles, or misses a tackle?Pagano isn’t a coach worth holding your breath for. He’s shown he’s inept. Grigson was terrible but it doesn’t mean Pagano is free from blame.

No one wants him here anymore.  Not even the people explaining what could have been. We all are pretty much concluded time is up.

[NannyMcafee]

2 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Bellick getts pass's on his mistakes because he wins with superior talent, lets see haw good Green Bay is without Rodgers playing. I GUARANTEE NOT GOOD. Is that because of coaching I think not maybe because of the QB, being out YUP

 

A year ago GB was just as bad as we were. They don't have that much more talent than we do. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I love how all of a sudden, everyone on this forum is suddenly an experienced NFL head coach....

I'm not saying this is all on Pagano. But we already took care of 1/3 of the problem with Grigson fired, Ballard is working on fixing the other 1/3(lack of talent) the only thing left to try to fix is the coaching problem and thus it falls on Pagano. 

Look I know its popular to dog Pagano on here! I believe when he has been given the tools, hes a a pretty good coach. Some would disagree, but thats how I see it.No not elite but good. The players play for him! Will he back next year, IMO unfortunately probable not which means Luck will probable be learning a new offense.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Okay, I gotta know... what is the deal with this David Toub guy, and why does everyone want him so badly? If there's anyone I'm going for from that coaching staff, it's their offensive coordinator, not their special teams guy. I've seen Toub's name thrown around for the past few months like he's a shoe in for the gig, and I don't get it. Why would we promote a special teams coordinator to head coach? That seems like a terrible idea to me.

Because they have read unconfirmed reports that he is the guy Ballard wants.  So they want to jump on the bandwagon early.  Human nature I guess.  Until that rumor he was pretty much an unknown.