Hilton and Moncrief

[JTrouble]

7 hours ago, IinD said:

Moncrief is definitely playing himself off our team for next year. Or at a minimum, he's looking way less expensive then he might have been.

 

At his size he should be way more then a complimentary WR.

 

I think TY is more pacing himself. Kind of going at 75% until he has to be the TY we know

On TY. I hate to think he's pacing himself since we need A1 TY Sauce all game long. Maybe it's a lack of targets or timing with the backup but I would of liked to of seen more fire out of him the past 2 games. Like when I seen him smiling (heading over to the sidelines) after not making that first down. I could of just read that wrong and I love me some TY. I'm not worried about him though, he's done it for years (playing at a high level).

 

Moncrief on the other hand hasn't proven anything yet except that he can catch a TD pass. The long throw that he seemed to just quit on really got me boiling. Plus the half reach for the dinner bill non catch. To date I've expected way more from DM. The lack of focus and hustle today left me wondering and fuming at times. I hope today was more an aberration and not the norm because the talent is there.

[RomanianColtsFan]

I'm very disappointed with those two. 

Hilton seems to be playing well only when Luck plays. I remember Reggie Wayne making plays for Painter and Orlovsky. Hilton can't even make an effort to get a couple of extra inches for a first down, not to mention getting cute and fumbling the ball. Same with Moncrief, he needs extra focus when playing with an unfamiliar QB, make an effort to go after the ball. 2/8 catch rate won't cut it. 

[RomanianColtsFan]

6 hours ago, gacoop1 said:

Did you see JB's expression when AZ missed the field goal before the OT? Looks a little too mellow, reserved, wonder if it's because he's assimilating into the team's chemistry slowly.

 

I'm glad you noticed that. I also noticed his body language when he left the bench to take the field in overtime. As soon as I saw that I said to myself, "this is not a good sign".

[OHColtfan]

At a time you need to step up and help the QB, Moncrief did everything but help quit on routes, dropped balls, short arms, etc- was almost shocked when he quit on one route, looked like he was running a phantom practice route instead of a game situation. That's character, effort issue. If you can't play hard then sit your butt on the bench. People saying "they are tired of losing", well with the amount of money these fools are making, giving best effort is the minimum (see Joe Thomas from Cleveland, losing his whole career, but man shows up and plays hard). By the way, he quit on that route while we were winning the game. Besides how do you know you are going to lose if you don't put forth the effort to win. That is a loser mentality. So if he wants to give half effort because he doesn't like his workplace, is he willing to take a half pay cut? Guy is getting paid, he should play like it. Give me hungry players over guys with potential but entitled character any day.

[Jdubu]

6 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Moncrief was a concern because he had more than one just flat out drop today that didn't have much to do with who the QB was because they were good throws.  

 

I will and have defended TY today but Moncrief did not play well today and that had nothing to do with who the QB was.

I will second this post! Moncreif is quickly reducing his salary for whatever team he plays for next season unless he picks it up over the season. Some of these drops he made were uncontested balls hitting him right in the hands. My concern and real question here will be, is Moncreif this type of player who has all the measurables but can't live up to them or is he a product of the unaccountable athletes that Pagano regime has encouraged with his soft hand over his 5 long years here? 

 

We may not get to realize his potential here because these two things will intersect this upcoming offseason. Pagano will be gone and replaced but Moncreif will become free agency eligible. If he is a untapped and undisciplined player who just hasn't been developed well under Pagano, we won't know it until he goes somewhere else and another coach lights his fire. Maybe, just maybe, we take some risk and resign him to a very modest 1-2 year contract to see if the new staff can build him up better but under what Ballard has said, producing is his driving factor not in potential for FA signings.

 

Moncreif has certainly not broken out in his time here and some of that is injury but still, his size/speed combo hasn't produced mismatches even with Luck under center. Sure would love to see him click and open it up over the season and bring that wow factor to the team but I've not seen it yet. All I've seen is that potential stuff kept mostly inside. He is like the bride who is hot as heck but won't cook, clean, get freaky, have babies or have fun but she looks good. 

[aaronw_12]

The thing with Hilton, every team we play will have their best corner on TY the whole time. He has to overcome that and make a move to get open. Needs to use the double-move once in awhile to get open

[richard pallo]

I'm very disappointed in Moncrief.  I keep hearing he's going to emerge yet he shows basically nothing.  Saints are taking calls on their safety Vaccaro.  I would be okay with the trade and going with Rogers and Aiken and utilizing Doyle even more.  He's a beast. 

[King Colt]

They both looked bored and anxious to get their uniforms off so they could go play checkers, not chess.

[dw49]

9 hours ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

Still, TY is good enough to beat him at least once. And i still have a problem with his not reaching for 1st down

 

 

He slipped 

[DougDew]

I've said it before all over the forum, we haven't had a reliable #2 WR since Reggie hurt his knee.  I'm not going to single out one WR during a game where the QB has been with the team only a couple of weeks, but receivers not getting open or playing poorly has been a problem for a few years now.  It may have something to do with talent, or scheme, or both. 

 

Other playoff caliber teams have had better WR rosters than we have had over the years, IMO.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

14 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

TY made his fair share of grabs today and most of the time it went his way he caught it.  Hard to argue about him today.  

 

Moncrief was disappointing.  I still think he's really a high end number three WR because he's not consistent enough to be counted on as the number two.

 

TY had his fair share of catches, but diving short of that first down was a crucial mistake. Not only did it cost us a first down, it put Pagano in a position where he pretty much had no choice but to throw the challenge flag, and we lost. He needs to be a lot more focused than that, that's something I'd expect out of a rookie, not a 6th year veteran pro bowl WR.

[throwing BBZ]

14 hours ago, PuntersArePeopleToo said:

I mean normally I would too, but for the first time Im just really disappointed in his performance. Just not even going for the reach of an extra yard which I dont see him do that often

 

 

 Bull. He went for the reach and just showed anyone who has watched him, his feet almost always come out from underneath him when he makes an attempt to make a quick cut/move.

That is why he never runs reverses and his bubble screens better have a quick straight ahead escape.
 He has NO jump step. He can't block in the running game.
 TY runs through a defense now and then and is VG in crossing patterns. He needs his Lucky charms.

 

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

13 hours ago, dw49 said:

 

He slipped 

I know he slipped but he didnt try either a reaching ball out or planting his hand in the ground so that he could lunge forward

[PuntersArePeopleToo]

7 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Bull. He went for the reach and just showed anyone who has watched him, his feet almost always come out from underneath him when he makes an attempt to make a quick cut/move.

That is why he never runs reverses and his bubble screens better have a quick straight ahead escape.
 He has NO jump step. He can't block in the running game.
 TY runs through a defense now and then and is VG in crossing patterns. He needs his Lucky charms.

 

He didnt reach until he was already on the ground. And again slipping but not reaching before he was on the ground. Or putting his hand down and planting so he could fall forward more

[WoolMagnet]

16 hours ago, RomanianColtsFan said:

 

I'm glad you noticed that. I also noticed his body language when he left the bench to take the field in overtime. As soon as I saw that I said to myself, "this is not a good sign".

I noticed too.  But everyone is built differently.

Eli certainly is uber-"mellow", and he does just fine.  And dont forget Brisset was just brought in, so his comfortable level isnt 100% yet, let alone he was brought in to be #2, not #1 which could have an effect on his personality versus being "the man."

  There are times i'm not crazy about Luck's "aw shucks" attitude.

being calm, cool, and collected unddr pressure is a good thing,imo.

maybe dome of it will rub off on Pagano.

[Freenyfan102]

 

I dont think they really care anymore

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, DougDew said:

I've said it before all over the forum, we haven't had a reliable #2 WR since Reggie hurt his knee.  I'm not going to single out one WR during a game where the QB has been with the team only a couple of weeks, but receivers not getting open or playing poorly has been a problem for a few years now.  It may have something to do with talent, or scheme, or both. 

 

Other playoff caliber teams have had better WR rosters than we have had over the years, IMO.

 

 

Perhaps this is one reason we brought in a NEW very highly regarded WR coach this off-season?

[NewColtsFan]

17 hours ago, JTrouble said:

On TY. I hate to think he's pacing himself since we need A1 TY Sauce all game long. Maybe it's a lack of targets or timing with the backup but I would of liked to of seen more fire out of him the past 2 games. Like when I seen him smiling (heading over to the sidelines) after not making that first down. I could of just read that wrong and I love me some TY. I'm not worried about him though, he's done it for years (playing at a high level).

 

Moncrief on the other hand hasn't proven anything yet except that he can catch a TD pass. The long throw that he seemed to just quit on really got me boiling. Plus the half reach for the dinner bill non catch. To date I've expected way more from DM. The lack of focus and hustle today left me wondering and fuming at times. I hope today was more an aberration and not the norm because the talent is there.

 

Moncrief was interviewed and said he couldn't see the deep pass....    lost it in the lights from above.    Said ths is not the first time it's happened.

 

[akcolt]

12 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

TY had his fair share of catches, but diving short of that first down was a crucial mistake. Not only did it cost us a first down, it put Pagano in a position where he pretty much had no choice but to throw the challenge flag, and we lost. He needs to be a lot more focused than that, that's something I'd expect out of a rookie, not a 6th year veteran pro bowl WR

TY hasn't looked right this season the fumble week 1. AC has been bad, Mewhort had the penalty 1st & G at the 7 when a TD really puts us in good shape. Gore same drive couple of plays later the ball hits him in the face mask. That's 4 guys on O that shouldn't be part of the problem making mental errors. The O let us down cost us a W and it wasn't the QB. 

 

I wander if Luck not playing and Tolzien being the QB out of camp didn't have some impact for their hopes this season. I don't think many expected Brissett to bring it like that. Ballard himself said you can't fool the players everyone in the locker room knows who should/shouldn't be there.

 

Moncrief on the other hand is starting to look like a guy who never plays up to his ability. Let's hope not the season is young. 

[IndySouthsider]

23 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Dorsett had one big play which is why he had 3 catches for 68 yards he wasn't getting alot of looks anyway

Also due to the fact that Brady was throwing when the game was way out of reach. Classy organization!

 

 When the game was still in doubt Dorsett wasn't even on the field.

[lollygagger8]

Hilton is too scared to take a hit and will fall down when he could make a 1st down running 3 yards. 

 

Moncrief quit on at least 4 plays (that I counted) 

 

Absolutely atrocious efforts from both players. 

 

Plus they can't catch balls thrown from a QB that actually has an arm. 

 

At least my guy Jack Doyle came to play!!!! 

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, IndySouthsider said:

Also due to the fact that Brady was throwing when the game was way out of reach. Classy organization!

 

they did a lot of that when he set those records with moss and welker too

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Hilton is too scared to take a hit and will fall down when he could make a 1st down running 3 yards. 

 

at his size he has to get down, especially if a line back or strong safety is coming 

[Pacergeek]

TY is motivated by stats and personal accolades. Without Luck, he knows he won't put up big numbers. He isn't the kind of player to completely sell out for the team. This is evidenced by the way Hilton quit on the 3rd down play where he dove instead of fighting for yards. Moncrief is confusing, because he has proven absolutely nothing. He is a diva for no reason. Only seems to have skill catching TD's in the red zone. Doesn't seem interested in catching anything other than TD's

[Yoshinator]

Moncrief might be the most overrated player on the Colts and this Colts forum. He literally does nothing to stand out except catch td passes. If those passes weren't in the end zone, he'd be a #3-#4 type receiver with the impact he makes. He's done nothing but regress, and if he can't catch td passes anymore with Doyle as the TE, then he has absolutely no use, especially with the playbook Chud runs.

[akcolt]

18 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Moncrief might be the most overrated player on the Colts and this Colts forum. He literally does nothing to stand out except catch td passes. If those passes weren't in the end zone, he'd be a #3-#4 type receiver with the impact he makes. He's done nothing but regress, and if he can't catch td passes anymore with Doyle as the TE, then he has absolutely no use, especially with the playbook Chud runs.

Easy man have you forgotten his combine? He went total freak show we are talking about 39.5 vert 132 broad jump That there is Julio type numbers at 6'2 222lbs you see the similarities.  Unfortunately all that explosiveness has yet to make it to the field.  He's 6'2 with a 39.5" vertical we don't have a jump ball in the play book? I'd hoped the new WR coach might unlock him time is ticking. 

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, akcolt said:

Easy man have you forgotten his combine? He went total freak show we are talking about 39.5 vert 132 broad jump That there is Julio type numbers at 6'2 222lbs you see the similarities.  Unfortunately all that explosiveness has yet to make it to the field.  He's 6'2 with a 39.5" vertical we don't have a jump ball in the play book? I'd hoped the new WR coach might unlock him time is ticking. 

A big part of it is Chud, but it seems like he is expendable, just like every other receiver not named Hilton on this team. He is basically a red zone target, and that's it. He should be much better, and he isn't. Even with Luck, he's very average, and a great combine doesn't make a great football player. This is why, every year come draft time, I say on the forum we should go after great football players, not great athletes. The best football players have the best chance of hitting, and we'll have a better chance long term of hitting on a better overall team. However, that was one of Grigson's better picks, especially in that historic WR class. I'll give him some more time until Luck returns to see if things change.

[lollygagger8]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

at his size he has to get down, especially if a line back or strong safety is coming 

He knows who is around him.

 

He also knows where the 1st down marker is. 

 

 

[IndySouthsider]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

TY is motivated by stats and personal accolades. Without Luck, he knows he won't put up big numbers. He isn't the kind of player to completely sell out for the team. This is evidenced by the way Hilton quit on the 3rd down play where he dove instead of fighting for yards. Moncrief is confusing, because he has proven absolutely nothing. He is a diva for no reason. Only seems to have skill catching TD's in the red zone. Doesn't seem interested in catching anything other than TD's

That's dumb. I know it's all manly to take a hit. But players also need to think of their bodies. It's a heck of a lot better to have the player for for 16 weeks and then to pick up one first downIt's a heck of a lot better to have the player for for 16 weeks and then to pick up one first down

[Pacergeek]

47 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

That's dumb. I know it's all manly to take a hit. But players also need to think of their bodies. It's a heck of a lot better to have the player for for 16 weeks and then to pick up one first downIt's a heck of a lot better to have the player for for 16 weeks and then to pick up one first down

Hilton quit on the play. One play can mean the difference between winning and losing. One game can make the difference between making or missing the playoffs. Wasn't like TY was going to get blown up or anything. 

[IndySouthsider]

2 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Hilton quit on the play. One play can mean the difference between winning and losing. One game can make the difference between making or missing the playoffs. Wasn't like TY was going to get blown up or anything. 

Guessing you hated Marvin Harrison!

[2006Coltsbestever]

Hilton isn't the problem with our team. He lead the league in Yards last season by the way and is easily a Top 10 WR. Problem is since Reggie we haven't had a Good #2. Jack is the 2nd best Receiver we have and he is a TE.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Kyle Rodriguez posted some snapshots on Twitter showing TY and Moncrief getting open on numerous occasions and Brissett not being able to see them.

 

 

Anyway, this shows that the truth is actually in between, can't put the blame on one side only.

[JTrouble]

19 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Moncrief was interviewed and said he couldn't see the deep pass....    lost it in the lights from above.    Said ths is not the first time it's happened.

 

I missed that interview NCF...Thanks for the update

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 9/18/2017 at 4:14 AM, WoolMagnet said:

Anyone notice Dorsett had 3 targets and 3 catches for sixty some yards?  he's gonna have a big year.

i concur