Cornerback vs Pass rusher in 2nd round

[Buck Showalter]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

True, I can definitely see that happening. Depends on if Cook or Mixon still drop. Will a first time GM pull the trigger on Mixon? I am sure a lot of fans will be unhappy if he does...

Ha you could have said it this way & it would also be true, if not more true...

[jskinnz]

Just now, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Yikes.. As a Buckeye fan, and I think Samuel is a tremendous talent, this forum would implode if they go Samuel in the 2nd. We already have people trying to justify how Hooker was a bad a pick, so I can't imagine how it would be if they took Samuel. 

 

I think those discounting the Hooker pick are very clearly not football savants. 

[COLTS449]

2 minutes ago, jskinnz said:

 

Maybe not but I sure as hell can question what is between his ears.

 

True.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, jskinnz said:

 

I think those discounting the Hooker pick are very clearly not football savants. 

People discounting the Hooker pick don't have a clue.

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

You are honed in only on the tackling part, I see. What is the guarantee a 1st round CB won't whiff on a tackle? Even more so, what is the guarantee that a 1st round CB would tackle better than a 2nd or 3rd round CB, going to your point? That makes no sense.

 

You think Revis or Deion Sanders never whiffed on a tackle??

All players get beat from time to time.  I think in this defense, getting CBs who can cover, track the ball, and support the run is extremely important.  All three skills, and that takes investment in high pickS, since there's two CBs.  You can get one-trick pony players in later rounds.

 

Same with OLBs who can do it all.  Pure situational pass rushers can be had after round 2, if what you're looking for is a one-trick pony pass rusher.

 

OLBs and CBs who can do it all are probably the two MOST important positions in this defense, and you can only get those players with high round picks or a high priced FA...very high priced FA.

[richard pallo]

We know it's going to be BPA and at our pick that should equate to a three down starter.  To me that means CB, RB, LB, or OL.  Shouldn't be a 2nd and or  3rd. down pass rushing ER.  

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

All players get beat from time to time.  I think in this defense, getting CBs who can cover, track the ball, and support the run.  All three, and that takes investment in high pickS, since there's two CBs.  You can get one-trick pony players in later rounds.

 

Same with OLBs who can do it all.  Pure situational pass rushers can be had after round 2, if what you're looking for is a one-trick pony pass rusher.

 

OLBs and CBs who can do it all are probably the two MOST important positions in this defense, and you can only get those players with high round picks or a high priced FA...very high priced FA.

 

Tackling can be taught and/or worked on. Seahawks players went to that rugby style tackling that they didn't do in college and that team as a whole is a great tackling team. We have to consider the fact that the knock on Hooker is his 1 year experience and tackling but then it also very well could mean the coaches considered that and felt that he hasn't picked up bad habits having started just 1 full year, and can be coached to overcome his weaknesses differently. The upside with him was worth it, otherwise they wouldn't have pulled the trigger, I am certain about that. Speed, anticipation, ball skill instincts, range aren't easily coachable compared to tackling, IMO.

[DougDew]

15 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Yikes.. As a Buckeye fan, and I think Samuel is a tremendous talent, this forum would implode if they go Samuel in the 2nd. We already have people trying to justify how Hooker was a bad a pick, so I can't imagine how it would be if they took Samuel. 

Who is Samuel?  Why would anybody care what college a pro player played at?

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Tackling can be taught and/or worked on. Seahawks players went to that rugby style tackling that they didn't do in college and that team as a whole is a great tackling team. We have to consider the fact that the knock on Hooker is his 1 year experience and tackling but then it also very well could mean the coaches considered that and felt that he hasn't picked up bad habits having started just 1 full year, and can be coached to overcome his weaknesses differently. The upside with him was worth it, otherwise they wouldn't have pulled the trigger, I am certain about that.

I don't care about Hooker in this thread, or as a player in general.

 

I care about having enough high round draft picks to fill the important positions in this defense, now and in the few years Luck is under contract, considering that VD will likely start to miss some games, if not slow down when he's in the games.

[chad72]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I don't care about Hooker in this thread, or as a player.

 

I care about having enough high round draft picks to fill the important positions in this defense, considering that VD will likely start to miss some games, if not slow down when he's in the games.

 

It is the ripple effect aspect that you brought into this thread wanting a 1st round CB and mentioning that we wasted a first round pick that led to this discussion. I will agree to disagree with you on the 1st round pick and move on with this thread.

[BProland85]

I feel like there will be a better CB available over OLB when it's the Colts turn to pick round 2. Quincy Wilson, Chidobe Awuzie, and Sidney Jones are all still available.

 

For OLBs, there are some good small school guys available but I think one of them could be had in the 3rd. Derek Rivers, Tarrell Basham, and Tyus Bowser come to mind.

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

CB the next 2 rounds.  

 

personally I'd rather see OLB and CB today and then another CB and probably RB with the 2 picks in the 4th. 

[BleedBlu8792]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Who is Samuel?  Why would anybody care what college a pro player played at?

 

If you don't know who it is, there's no point in discussing this with you. You obviously was very unaware, by your comments, of who Malik Hooker is/was. And where he played at had ZERO to do with my point.

[Shive]

14 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

It is the ripple effect aspect that you brought into this thread wanting a 1st round CB and mentioning that we wasted a first round pick that led to this discussion. I will agree to disagree with you on the 1st round pick and move on with this thread.

[chad72]

23 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I feel like there will be a better CB available over OLB when it's the Colts turn to pick round 2. Quincy Wilson, Chidobe Awuzie, and Sidney Jones are all still available.

 

For OLBs, there are some good small school guys available but I think one of them could be had in the 3rd. Derek Rivers, Tarrell Basham, and Tyus Bowser come to mind.

 

My thoughts as well. That is also why I am a proponent of giving up a 3rd and 4th to move back to the end of the 2nd round if we feel one of those small school guys or other OLBs won't be there at your 3rd round pick. 

[CR91]

Neither. Dalvin cook. Now I'm gonna walk away and duck from the tomatoes that will be thrown at me

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Neither. Dalvin cook. Now I'm gonna walk away and duck from the tomatoes that will be thrown at me

 

If he is there and he is BPA, I would have no problems with it. I just had a problem with it in round 1. 

[Coltfreak]

This is Gil Brandt on Tim Williams 

Quote

School: Alabama | Year: Senior. Was never a full-time starter. Pass-rush specialist. Very explosive. Will need to become stronger. A lot like Bruce Irvin, the 15th overall pick by Seattle in 2012. Has history of character problems. Will compete on the field. Not sure he can play in space

 

 

[csmopar]

10 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Neither. Dalvin cook. Now I'm gonna walk away and duck from the tomatoes that will be thrown at me

Cook in the 2nd is much better choice than cook in the 1st.  Or any RB in my opinion.

[Coltfreak]

39 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I feel like there will be a better CB available over OLB when it's the Colts turn to pick round 2. Quincy Wilson, Chidobe Awuzie, and Sidney Jones are all still available.

 

For OLBs, there are some good small school guys available but I think one of them could be had in the 3rd. Derek Rivers, Tarrell Basham, and Tyus Bowser come to mind.

I hope they figure out a way to get Sydney Jones.    He is very very good and worth taking a chance on IMO

[Colts1324]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

CB.   

I really like Chidobe Awuzie out of Colorado. He is similar to Geathers who can play multiple positions.

 

With players like that, we could really change up our defense and fool defenses. Awuzie could jump back as the safety, and Hooker with his coverage abilities, could cover the receiver. Vontae could cover the No. 1 receiver, and Geathers can cut off the Tight End. Butler can guard the slot WR. We could have a very diverse secondary. 

 

I really like Kevin King too. He is the type of corner Ballard likes. 

 

Dalvin Cook(yes, a 2nd round pick which I have been against... but he may be BPA.), Lamp, and Cunningham are 3 players I would like as well. 

[Colts1324]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

If he is there and he is BPA, I would have no problems with it. I just had a problem with it in round 1. 

That's how I feel. I truly believe we are in a good position right here. I want the BEST overall player available. I didn't believe a lineman was BPA in round one. I was right. Lamp and Robinson are still available. 

 

Cook, King, Awuzie, Lamp, Cunningham, Wilson, or Tim Williams. I don't think we could go wrong here. As long as we don't draft a safety, QB, DT(unless its McDowell) or WR. I'm fine. I expect EDGE, ILB, or Corner. 

[CS5959]

You would think with all the uncertanty with the incoming QB class we could throw Scott Tolzien out there as trade bait and maybe pick up another 3rd or so.

[rock8591]

8 minutes ago, CS5959 said:

You would think with all the uncertanty with the incoming QB class we could throw Scott Tolzien out there as trade bait and maybe pick up another 3rd or so.

 

More like for a bag of potato chips. Gotta love these troll posts.

[dw49]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Because of the urgency at the position,   I would prefer CB over OLB.

 

Hope to find an OLB in R3.....      someone that can be groomed for the future...

 

 

 

 

Ahhh.. I think just the best player available at CB OLB or RB. IMO , taking Hooker pretty much means we will have a "hole" or 2 left after this draft. If we went CB or pass rush in round 1 , we could have used the next 2 picks on the other spot. Now I think Ballard just needs to stay with BPA and don't worry about it. 

 

This isn't to say I don't like the Hooker pick. 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Ahhh.. I think just the best player available at CB OLB or RB. IMO , taking Hooker pretty much means we will have a "hole" or 2 left after this draft. If we went CB or pass rush in round 1 , we could have used the next 2 picks on the other spot. Now I think Ballard just needs to stay with BPA and don't worry about it. 

 

This isn't to say I don't like the Hooker pick. 

That's been my basic point.  Hooker is fine.  The pick wasn't the greatest considering everything else. 

 

Which makes it sound like you hate the pick when compared to all of the comments that don't realize he's just a player who fell a few slots.  Its not like we got a top 5 player in round 3.

 

And there were enough OLBs and CBs in this draft that you could fill a need AND get good value.  Now, we have to wait to see if a good OLB or CB is there with our 3rd third pick...and still find a RB.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

Ha, I think fans on this forum who expect the picks in rounds 2 & 3 to definitely be a combo of pass-rusher & cornerback may end up being somewhat disappointed. I don't argue that those may be the teams biggest needs, however, I think Ballard simply stays true to his board, however that may fall...

 

 

100% agree that we'll likely not see exactly that combo, but I don't see any real possibility of us coming out of today without a CB2. It just doesn't seem like an option, but I'm excited to find out, one way or another.

[dw49]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That's been my basic point.  Hooker is fine.  The pick wasn't the greatest considering everything else. 

 

Which makes it sound like you hate the pick when compared to all of the comments that don't realize he's just a player who fell a few slots.  Its not like we got a top 5 player in round 3.

 

And there were enough OLBs and CBs in this draft that you could fill a need AND get good value.  Now, we have to wait to see if a good OLB or CB is there with our 3rd third pick...and still find a RB.

 

 

No ... I don't hate it. And to be honest , I don't watch a lot of college football . So I go mostly by what I read. But if you wanted a good player at CB , OLB and RB ,this pick did put a crimp in that pipe dream. But if Ballard thinks he was that much better than the best OLB or CB , I good with it. 

 

However now you have to stay with that BAP or you mess up the whole draw...JMO.

[Buck Showalter]

Just now, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

100% agree that we'll likely not see exactly that combo, but I don't see any real possibility of us coming out of today without a CB2. It just doesn't seem like an option, but I'm excited to find out, one way or another.

agreed, it's just hard looking at all the different possibilities of players/positions still available, who are highly rated & falling, to naturally assume it's gonna be a rusher & corner... 

 

 

[southwest1]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Go BPA.  I think the roster has enough holes (despite our many free agents) that we can go with the highest ranked prospect and be happy that he'll contribute.  LB, CB, even DE depth, EDGE, OL, RB, there are plenty of holes to fill.

Yes, BPA always seems to have been INDY's general drafting philosophy & I like the fact that our franchise never moves from our draft order too. When Chicago jumped up last night, I was like Fox what the hades are you doing? Mitchell Trubisky seriously? 

 

Plus, I think Buck said it best as well as Brave Heart Colt when he replied that as long as Grigson is gone for good Ballard has any extended Honeymoon period free from scrutiny for awhile. 

 

Hey, we didn't select a WR in round 1 last night so it's a win/win any way you slice it to little ole me man. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

Ahhh.. I think just the best player available at CB OLB or RB. IMO , taking Hooker pretty much means we will have a "hole" or 2 left after this draft. If we went CB or pass rush in round 1 , we could have used the next 2 picks on the other spot. Now I think Ballard just needs to stay with BPA and don't worry about it. 

 

This isn't to say I don't like the Hooker pick. 

 

I love the Hooker pick....

 

But we have Sheard and Simon, and they're fine this year as the starters.

 

We have Vonte and what else to start at corner?       We need a starter opposite Davis.

 

I think the odds are better finding a starting corner in R2 than they are in R3.....

 

In R3 we'll try to find an edge player or something else....

 

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, CS5959 said:

You would think with all the uncertanty with the incoming QB class we could throw Scott Tolzien out there as trade bait and maybe pick up another 3rd or so.

 

 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, dw49 said:

 

 

No ... I don't hate it. And to be honest , I don't watch a lot of college football . So I go mostly by what I read. But if you wanted a good player at CB , OLB and RB ,this pick did put a crimp in that pipe dream. But if Ballard thinks he was that much better than the best OLB or CB , I good with it. 

 

However now you have to stay with that BAP or you mess up the whole draw...JMO.

 

Consider a different perspective. You say this pick crimped our ability, but I think it actually helped. They keep saying this is a deep class for OLB, CB and RB becauae there are a lot of talented players at those positions, NOT because there are a lot of elite talent. After Garrett, every other pass rusher had questions about them. After lattimore, pretty much the same for CBs. 

 

So, by picking the guy that many people believe was the 2nd best safety in this class and far and away the best FS (which we do need) and remember that the deep classes of RB, OLB and CB means we can get a better player at each position in later rounds than we would have in a different class. So maybe a 2nd rd talent in the 3rd, a 4th rd talent in the 5th etc. And the difference between them and another player qe could have taken a round earlier is going to be much less than the difference between holler and a later rd FS.

 

Long story short (too late) this way I feel we are truly maximizing the value of 4 picks instead of just 3.

[James]

Definitely CB. I would love to get Sidney Jones. I know his injury will likely prevent him from having a big impact in his rookie season, but man will he be worth it later. 

 

Jones and Hooker = interceptions and more possessions for Luck.

[coltsfanatic24]

I prefer a CB in the 2nd round. King or Awuzie.

[BOTT]

Pass rusher.  They just have more impact on the game.

[Aces101]

I'd go pass rusher in 2nd round then a CB like Tabor on the 3rd round.

[hoosierhawk]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't care about Hooker in this thread, or as a player in general.

 

I care about having enough high round draft picks to fill the important positions in this defense, now and in the few years Luck is under contract, considering that VD will likely start to miss some games, if not slow down when he's in the games.

It's obvious you don't care about Hooker as a player. He was only a top 5 or top 10 pick by many, many draft pundits. Ballard said emphatically that this team cannot be rebuilt in one draft and that he would be looking for difference makers on D. One of the best difference makers fell in our lap at 15. 

[dw49]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I love the Hooker pick....

 

But we have Sheard and Simon, and they're fine this year as the starters.

 

We have Vonte and what else to start at corner?       We need a starter opposite Davis.

 

I think the odds are better finding a starting corner in R2 than they are in R3.....

 

In R3 we'll try to find an edge player or something else....

 

 

 

Cant argue with any of that as long as there is a CB that is close to their highest rated prospect when they are up in round 2

[dw49]

1 hour ago, J@son said:

 

Consider a different perspective. You say this pick crimped our ability, but I think it actually helped. They keep saying this is a deep class for OLB, CB and RB becauae there are a lot of talented players at those positions, NOT because there are a lot of elite talent. After Garrett, every other pass rusher had questions about them. After lattimore, pretty much the same for CBs. 

 

So, by picking the guy that many people believe was the 2nd best safety in this class and far and away the best FS (which we do need) and remember that the deep classes of RB, OLB and CB means we can get a better player at each position in later rounds than we would have in a different class. So maybe a 2nd rd talent in the 3rd, a 4th rd talent in the 5th etc. And the difference between them and another player qe could have taken a round earlier is going to be much less than the difference between holler and a later rd FS.

 

Long story short (too late) this way I feel we are truly maximizing the value of 4 picks instead of just 3.

 

 

Yep and the DE (Pick 14) from Tenn runs like a 4.8 . Was he really a good fit in our 3-4 ? Add to that Humphries did not look to be a bargain at pick 16. This IMO was a crazy draft that kept leaving defensive players on the board where less talented offensive guys came off the board. But it really didn't create a whole lot of screaming bargains . Like I said , I have no problem with Hooker . Infact I like it