any elite pass rusher that can fall to us in 2nd round?

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Actually an act of god basically describes exactly why teams passed on Hooker. There was this mad dash for mediocre offensive skill players that I still can't explain, by a bunch of panicked teams desperate for a quick fix. The Bears and Texans in particular made moves that leave them particularly vulnerable to their high risk gambles collapsing their franchises for a couple years if they don't pan out. Just some silly stuff went down yesterday.

Or they thought those players were better than Hooker....more impactful.

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Or they thought those players were better than Hooker....more impactful.

NFL GM's can be * who gamble away their futures on hair brained schemes too you know.

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Adams was considered the best safety mostly due to a higher ceiling.  Hooker though from my understanding is more polished and still a pretty good safety.

 

Personally I prefer to get the more polished players in round one.  Drafting for ceiling IMO is folly.  

 

But the rest of what you are saying is absolutely true.  The Bears kicked off a general panic on quarterbacks which caused the Texans and the Chiefs to give away a lot of draft capital to move up and grab quarterbacks. 

 

On top of that the thin class at the offensive positions other then RB actually helped the panic because teams felt if they didn't grab their offensive needs early they wouldn't be able to get them in the later rounds.  

Conley, Foster, and Allen dropped leaving plenty of room for Hooker to be selected where he was mocked by so many.

[lollygagger8]

I'd personally like to thank the Bears, Texans and Chiefs for making early QB runs and pushing good players down the board. 

[ColtsBlitz]

7 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Adams was considered the best safety mostly due to a higher ceiling.  Hooker though from my understanding is more polished and still a pretty good safety.

 

Personally I prefer to get the more polished players in round one.  Drafting for ceiling IMO is folly. 

Ok, my bad, I thought Hooker was the #1 safety. Still, considering he's 21 and he only started one year and got 7 INTs (3 for a pick6(and should've been 4, but block in the back penalty took it back)) I think with NFL level coaching and practice, and Luck as the guy he tries to defend against, he will come along nicely. 

[stitches]

Something to note about day 2 - Chris Ballard started his press-conference about the Hooker pick BEFORE the day 1 draft was finished. This means he probably doesn't see value in trading up and wasn't even considering it, or he didn't like any of the remaining players enough to trade up. The question is would he see value if some of the players he likes drops to the 37-40 range.

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Only Willis and Rivers are potentially better EDGE players than who we signed as FA.  I doubt Williams is even on our board.

 

I think Bowser and Hendrickson could make a living pass rush specialists, especially early in their careers. 

[krunk]

Just now, BlueShoe said:

 

I think Bowser and Hendrickson could make a living pass rush specialists, especially early in their careers. 

I think Basham is better than both of them.   I do like Bowser though, but I'm not as into Hendrickson.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

 

I think Bowser and Hendrickson could make a living pass rush specialists, especially early in their careers. 

Off topic, but Adoree Jackson went in the first round just like you said he would.

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

I think Basham is better than both of them.   I do like Bowser though, but I'm not as into Hendrickson.

 

I give all of them an outside chance. 

 

I have developed a "simple formula" called Explosive Edge Rushers. Since 1999 only 19 players have made the Explosive Edge Rushers club. And 5 of those players are in this draft (16%). It is not a perfect formula, but I would take about 50/50 odds on any player in the list. 

 

In no particular order, these players are the 2017 Explosive Edge Rushers. 

 

• Jordan Willis
• Derek Rivers
• Tyus Bowser
• Vince Biegel
• T.J. Watt

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

Off topic, but Adoree Jackson went in the first round just like you said he would.

 

I wasn't going to brag, and I am sure the person arguing with me about is trying to forget all about what he said. 

 

I am taking the high road.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

8 hours ago, bigt said:

Depending on whose still available based on BPA at position of need, I would say;

 

Jordan Willis

Tim Williams

Tarell Basham

Tyus Bowser

 

Kevin King

Chidobi Awuzie

Quincy Wilson

 

Joe Mixon

Dalvin Cook

Alvin Kamara

 

Forest Lamp

I would be happy with any of them

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I hope it's bowser 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I would be happy with any of them

Yeah still a lot of potentially great players left. I am pretty happy with the Hooker pick, pair him up with Geathers that should be solid. Butler can play some CB but I still think we will Draft a CB as well, and Green could still pan out and give us nice depth at Safety.

[Valpo2004]

26 minutes ago, ColtsBlitz said:

Ok, my bad, I thought Hooker was the #1 safety. Still, considering he's 21 and he only started one year and got 7 INTs (3 for a pick6(and should've been 4, but block in the back penalty took it back)) I think with NFL level coaching and practice, and Luck as the guy he tries to defend against, he will come along nicely. 

 

After reading a little bit it looks like part of the reason for him not being the #1 safety may have been due to minor injury concerns and the fact that those injuries kept him from working out at the combine, pro day, or for any of the teams.  

 

So essentially no one got to find out his 40 time which hurt him a bit.  

 

Still I put more stock on what I see on tape then what someone does at the combine.  So I'm still very happy with the pick.  

[Hoosiernsavga]

There are a lot better quality cb that will be available in the second than pass rushers. I'm hoping for one of these guys to fall to us in the second that can start immediately at corner:

K. King

Q. Wilson

S. Jones 

A. Witherspoon 

 

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

10 minutes ago, Hoosiernsavga said:

There are a lot better quality cb that will be available in the second than pass rushers. I'm hoping for one of these guys to fall to us in the second that can start immediately at corner:

K. King

Q. Wilson

S. Jones 

A. Witherspoon 

 

 

Of those I love Wilson perfect press corner IMO!!

[Dudley Smith]

56 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Actually an act of god basically describes exactly why teams passed on Hooker. There was this mad dash for mediocre offensive skill players that I still can't explain, by a bunch of panicked teams desperate for a quick fix. The Bears and Texans in particular made moves that leave them particularly vulnerable to their high risk gambles collapsing their franchises for a couple years if they don't pan out. Just some silly stuff went down yesterday.

 

I tend to agree on the Bears. That was a lot to give up to move up one spot to draft a guy who is being drafted almost purely on potential. On the other hand, I think the Texans made a very good move last night (hate to say it). Watson has a very high floor. Not as a high a ceiling as the other two guys selected or as Kizer, but he is going to be solid -- which with as good a roster as Houston has is enough. They got a lot better last night.

[Dudley Smith]

We really need a CB, but I know next to nothing about who is left. McDowell from MSU is a top 10 talent on the dline that is still left due to personality/work ethic issues, but he could be an absolute steal. I also hope we get Mixon in Round 3.

[richard pallo]

No, the elite pass rushers are gone so I don't think there are any to fall. .  There are some good potential ones left though.  I am expecting BPA again.  I'm thinking King, Cook, Lamp, Robinson, Willis will be gone.  I'm guessing  Cunningham, Kamara, or Feeney  as our pick.  I want a three down player. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Tim Williams may turn out to be one dimensional and has some red flags BUT man I think he can be awesome getting to the qb. I was impressed with one of the combine drills.

[COLTS449]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Should've addressed either CB or Pass rusher at 15 then get your raw centerfielder FS sometime in round 3 or 4.  Oh well.  At least we wont be picking a raw inexperienced FS this year in round 2.

 

Bro...... Yeah. I wanted Takk....But don't even try and compare Hooker to TJ FREAKING Green. TJ Green had bust written on his forehead. Malik Hooker is an elite top 5ish prospect who'll be an Earl Thomas type FS for us the next 8-10 years. We just got a top 5 pick at 15. He was rated higher than Adams, and he's not as raw as you'd think. His tackling is more to do with poor positioning and taking bad angles. His only issues are correctable, coachable, fixable issues. His natural ability cannot be taught. He'll improve his tackling even before week 1 and will be a better tackler his rookie year than he was at OSU last year. Then by year 2 he may be the best safety in the NFL. You don't even realize what we just got. We now finally have somebody who can match up with TE's, RB's, etc, and roam the field. We finally have a true ball hawking centerfielder. A game changing FS. Now we can get a game changing EDGE rusher in Tim Williams in RD2.

[COLTS449]

Tim Williams has to be our pick. I see him as a game changing pass rusher. Double digit sack machine. The freak we've been needing. Tyus Bowser wouldn't be a bad pick either, but he's not the player T-Will is. Lamp would be a steal too at 45 or 46 or whatever.

[COLTS449]

Get Williams in RD2, then Tabor, Tankersley, or Witherspoon or HOPEFULLY Moreau in RD3, Jourdan Lewis in RD 4.

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't know.  My point was that its not like Humphrey is still on the board.  He was the very next pick, so I assume the grades were fairly close.

 

Its not like Hooker was number 7 player and fell due to an act of God.  He fell because other GMs passed on him in favor of other players, so I assume Humphrey and Hooker are ranked fairly closely.

 

 Hooker was #1 on our board. I doubt if Humphery was in our top ten. JMO

[chad72]

5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Hooker was #1 on our board. I doubt if Humphery was in our top ten. JMO

 

 

This video suggests Malik Hooker was top 5 on their board (listen to Pagano's words):

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Colts-War-Room-Call--1st-round-pick-Malik-Hooker/bbe3e3d4-fd48-4fed-b5b9-bb62c14cc00b

 

Ballard, in his interview, would not reveal where Malik was rated but I think Pagano may have let the cat out of the bag in this taped phone call. Or, if people want to continue to be cynical (I can't help that), they could say Pagano said that just to please Malik over the phone (wonder why he would do that with so many folks watching and hearing). 

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Hooker was #1 on our board. I doubt if Humphery was in our top ten. JMO

I don't know who was ranked what.  What I do know is that Baltimore, who runs the same defense, picked Hump next at 16.  

 

I can't just assume Hooker was a value and Humphrey was a reach.

[DougDew]

15 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

 

This video suggests Malik Hooker was top 5 on their board (listen to Pagano's words):

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Colts-War-Room-Call--1st-round-pick-Malik-Hooker/bbe3e3d4-fd48-4fed-b5b9-bb62c14cc00b

 

Ballard, in his interview, would not reveal where Malik was rated but I think Pagano may have let the cat out of the bag in this taped phone call. Or, if people want to continue to be cynical (I can't help that), they could say Pagano said that just to please Malik over the phone (wonder why he would do that with so many folks watching and hearing). 

Come on...Werner was top 15 on their board.  They all say that about their picks.

 

He'll say that about the next pick...how lucky they are to have him.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Come on...Werner was top 5 on their board.

 

I will take Ballard's board that worked during the Lovie Smith/Bears GM era, and John Dorsey at KC recently over Grigson's board.  

 

GMs and their scouts make the boards primarily with coaches signing off on the players' talents and fit for their team.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I will take Ballard's board that worked during the Lovie Smith/Bears GM era, and John Dorsey at KC recently over Grigson's board.  

Just saying that all GMs say they were lucky to get the guy where they got him.....

 

Except for Polian, who was never lucky, but used to say the draft "went exactly like we thought it would" even when he was picking way down at 26.

[Jason_]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't know who was ranked what.  What I do know is that Baltimore, who runs the same defense, picked Hump next at 16.  

 

I can't just assume Hooker was a value and Humphrey was a reach.

 

and on the flip side you also can't just assume Hooker was a reach and Humphrey was value.

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

and on the flip side you also can't just assume Hooker was a reach and Humphrey was value.

I don't.  If we're going by internet mocks, Humphrey was mainly gone by our pick, especially with Conley and Sidney Jones gone, so he would have been value too if Hooker was.

[Tmoney]

Round 2: Tim Williams, Tyus Bowser, Malik McDowell, Jordan Willis

 

Round 3: Fabian Monreau, Sidney Jones, Shaquill Griffin, Rasul Douglas

[rock8591]

One of the pass rushers (Rivers, WIllis, Bowser, Williams, Lawson) will be available at our pick. Hard to believe that all 5 go before we pick.

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Adams was considered the best safety mostly due to a higher ceiling.  Hooker though from my understanding is more polished and still a pretty good safety.

 

Personally I prefer to get the more polished players in round one.  Drafting for ceiling IMO is folly.  

 

But the rest of what you are saying is absolutely true.  The Bears kicked off a general panic on quarterbacks which caused the Texans and the Chiefs to give away a lot of draft capital to move up and grab quarterbacks. 

 

On top of that the thin class at the offensive positions other then RB actually helped the panic because teams felt if they didn't grab their offensive needs early they wouldn't be able to get them in the later rounds.  

I believe your first paragraph is backwards.