Winners and Loser among the players with GM change

[ztboiler]

A change in GM equals increased roster turnover compared to standard.  No loyalty to underperforming draft picks, questionable fits for scheme adjustments, aging vets.....

 

It's interesting to consider potential winners and losers among the players...obviously depends a lot on who is selected.

 

First young player that comes to my mind who is more vulnerable now than before...Antonio Morrison. 

 

First vet player that comes to mind....Frank Gore.

[esmort]

41 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

A change in GM equals increased roster turnover compared to standard.  No loyalty to underperforming draft picks, questionable fits for scheme adjustments, aging vets.....

 

It's interesting to consider potential winners and losers among the players...obviously depends a lot on who is selected.

 

First young player that comes to my mind who is more vulnerable now than before...Antonio Morrison. 

 

First vet player that comes to mind....Frank Gore.

 

Agree on Morrison

 

Vets: DQJ and Arthur Jones ... Is D. Allen completely safe???

[GoColts8818]

Loser:  butler.  

 

Maybe Grigson's best find and has been very solid here but is an aging free agent.  I doubt a new GM brings him back.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, ztboiler said:

A change in GM equals increased roster turnover compared to standard.  No loyalty to underperforming draft picks, questionable fits for scheme adjustments, aging vets.....

 

It's interesting to consider potential winners and losers among the players...obviously depends a lot on who is selected.

 

First young player that comes to my mind who is more vulnerable now than before...Antonio Morrison. 

 

First vet player that comes to mind....Frank Gore.

 

Even if someone would think Morrison is a disappointment,  there's ZERO reason to cut him from a cheap affordable rookie contract.     There's way more downside than upside to cutting him.    He's going to go elsewhere and what if he becomes decent.     Players typically get much better after Year 1 and more after Year 2.       I see no reason to cut him.

 

As for Gore?     I think Pagano and Chudzinski would encourage a new GM to keep him.    That's he worth the modest contract that he has.    That we want him on the field and in the locker-room.

 

I'd guess veterans like DQJ and Art Jones.    Especially if Jones won't re-do his contract again.   

 

I don't see the upside of cutting any of the young guys.    Too much downside and not enough upside risk.

 

[GoColtsWin]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Loser:  butler.  

 

Maybe Grigson's best find and has been very solid here but is an aging free agent.  I doubt a new GM brings him back.

Our Db's depth is a big ? though. With Butler's ability to play Corner or Safety may play into him staying. If we can upgrade via free agent/draft, great though. Not gonna get upset on a positional upgrade, and there are some out there that think we may bring in a #2 Corner w/some of our cap. 

[AZColt11]

If Pagano stays, which is likely at this point anyway, he will have a say I'm sure and at least try to sell the new GM on the guys he wants to keep.  I think the guys more likely to be departing would be guys making big money that haven't lived up to it, such as Jones.  As was said, there really is no reason to cut a young 1st or 2nd year guy simply because they aren't a burden on your cap.  You may as well keep them around thru training camp and THEN make a move if you don't feel they will fit.  Just my view, I could be wrong.

[DougDew]

All of the veteran players mentioned would be on the bubble if Grigson was still here.

[lollygagger8]

Hopefully this means that McNary gets shown the door finally. 

[Defjamz26]

I have a whole list of guys who are vulnerable:

 

1. Dorsett-Definition of an underperforming draft pick that the OP mentioned. Easily replaceable as well.

 

2. T.J. Green- Worst rated safety in 2016. I think a new GM might just draft a more polished cover safety.

 

3. Morrison- if we get the faster coverage LBs we've so desperately needed for years in this draft, he may be a casualty.

 

4. Dwayne Allen-I think he's a prime trade target for someone who wouldn't mind picking up his contract and giving away like a 5th round pick.

 

5. David Parry- There's a few good NT prospects in this draft and 2 in FA. He might not get cut but he's probably in danger of losing his job.

[SilentHill]

I expect sweeping changes of aging and ineffective players

[WarGhost21]

19 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I have a whole list of guys who are vulnerable:

 

1. Dorsett-Definition of an underperforming draft pick that the OP mentioned. Easily replaceable as well.

 

2. T.J. Green- Worst rated safety in 2016. I think a new GM might just draft a more polished cover safety.

 

3. Morrison- if we get the faster coverage LBs we've so desperately needed for years in this draft, he may be a casualty.

 

4. Dwayne Allen-I think he's a prime trade target for someone who wouldn't mind picking up his contract and giving away like a 5th round pick.

 

5. David Parry- There's a few good NT prospects in this draft and 2 in FA. He might not get cut but he's probably in danger of losing his job.

Ok, I can see your still on the "Dorsett's already a Bust!" bandwagon, but Green won't be going anywhere. 2 reasons: He was a rookie last season, and most rookies don't do all that well in coverage. Also, the last rookie who had one of the worst coverage grades in the NFL? Landon Collins. I sure wonder how that turned out in his sophomore year?

[Smonroe]

19 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I have a whole list of guys who are vulnerable:

 

1. Dorsett-Definition of an underperforming draft pick that the OP mentioned. Easily replaceable as well.

 

2. T.J. Green- Worst rated safety in 2016. I think a new GM might just draft a more polished cover safety.

 

3. Morrison- if we get the faster coverage LBs we've so desperately needed for years in this draft, he may be a casualty.

 

4. Dwayne Allen-I think he's a prime trade target for someone who wouldn't mind picking up his contract and giving away like a 5th round pick.

 

5. David Parry- There's a few good NT prospects in this draft and 2 in FA. He might not get cut but he's probably in danger of losing his job.

 

Money-wise, there's no reason to cut any of those guys.  Cutting Allen wouldn't save much considering his dead cap amount. 

 

Totally agree if you're saying any of them could be beat out by better players and there wouldn't be roster room.  But you could say that about 95% of the roster.

 

 

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Ok, I can see your still on the "Dorsett's already a Bust!" bandwagon, but Green won't be going anywhere. 2 reasons: He was a rookie last season, and most rookies don't do all that well in coverage. Also, the last rookie who had one of the worst coverage grades in the NFL? Landon Collins. I sure wonder how that turned out in his sophomore year?

 

Every time I hear the name 'Landon Collins' I wince.  What could have been....

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

Every time I hear the name 'Landon Collins' I wince.  What could have been....

It's easy in hindsight to go back and look at all the great players we could've had if drafted. Imagine how silly 198 people picking in 2000 that didn't take Tom Brady? 49ers took Alex Smith 1st and Rodgers in the same Draft went 24th.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's easy in hindsight to go back and look at all the great players we could've had if drafted. Imagine how silly 198 people picking in 2000 that didn't take Tom Brady? 49ers took Alex Smith 1st and Rodgers in the same Draft went 24th.

To be fair, probably half the people here wanted Landon Collins, including myself. Not many people predicted Brady would be great, and only a few said Rodgers would be better than Alex Smith.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Please cut dq and Jones. 

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's easy in hindsight to go back and look at all the great players we could've had if drafted. Imagine how silly 198 people picking in 2000 that didn't take Tom Brady? 49ers took Alex Smith 1st and Rodgers in the same Draft went 24th.

 

Oh, I know that.  But like Jared said in the post under yours, I think at least half of us expected to hear Landon's name called.  And I'm the first to admit, when he had a bad year in 15 I wasn't as upset with the draft pick.

 

I'm from Huntsville, AL so I'm prejudice but IMO Chester Rogers was a better receiver than Dorsett last year.  Dorsett was a luxury pick, at a time when we didn't have that luxury.  I'm still hoping he turns into TY2, and hope the new WR coach can help.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

36 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I have a whole list of guys who are vulnerable:

 

1. Dorsett-Definition of an underperforming draft pick that the OP mentioned. Easily replaceable as well.

 

2. T.J. Green- Worst rated safety in 2016. I think a new GM might just draft a more polished cover safety.

 

3. Morrison- if we get the faster coverage LBs we've so desperately needed for years in this draft, he may be a casualty.

 

4. Dwayne Allen-I think he's a prime trade target for someone who wouldn't mind picking up his contract and giving away like a 5th round pick.

 

5. David Parry- There's a few good NT prospects in this draft and 2 in FA. He might not get cut but he's probably in danger of losing his job.

 

I doubt anyone that was a rookie last year gets cut, not right away at least, just because of how cheap it is to keep them. Dorsett would cost $3mil to cut, $2mil to keep, so I don't see that happening either. Allen might get moved, but that depends on whether another team wants to take a risk on an injury-prone guy. I agree that Parry is probably going to be more of a rotational guy moving forward.

[MacDee1975]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Even if someone would think Morrison is a disappointment,  there's ZERO reason to cut him from a cheap affordable rookie contract.     There's way more downside than upside to cutting him.    He's going to go elsewhere and what if he becomes decent.     Players typically get much better after Year 1 and more after Year 2.       I see no reason to cut him.

 

As for Gore?     I think Pagano and Chudzinski would encourage a new GM to keep him.    That's he worth the modest contract that he has.    That we want him on the field and in the locker-room.

 

I'd guess veterans like DQJ and Art Jones.    Especially if Jones won't re-do his contract again.   

 

I don't see the upside of cutting any of the young guys.    Too much downside and not enough upside risk.

 

 

Totally agree.  No point whatsoever on cutting Morrison at this point.

[Tmoney]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

I have a whole list of guys who are vulnerable:

 

1. Dorsett-Definition of an underperforming draft pick that the OP mentioned. Easily replaceable as well.

 

2. T.J. Green- Worst rated safety in 2016. I think a new GM might just draft a more polished cover safety.

 

3. Morrison- if we get the faster coverage LBs we've so desperately needed for years in this draft, he may be a casualty.

 

4. Dwayne Allen-I think he's a prime trade target for someone who wouldn't mind picking up his contract and giving away like a 5th round pick.

 

5. David Parry- There's a few good NT prospects in this draft and 2 in FA. He might not get cut but he's probably in danger of losing his job.

Dwayne Allen for a 5th is terrible. Sure I think Jack might take his starting job, but he has a role on this team as the physical blocking TE who can make contested catches over the middle. TJ Green was god awful this year, but give the kid 1 more year to prove he can't hang in this league he's got all the potential in the world. If we draft a safety I hope its not this year, Darius butler should be re signed played great at FS, and why not give mike Adams 1 more year if need be. Morrison is a 2 down lb at best in the NFL, would love to upgrade him and Edwin. And David parry should be cut!! I can't even comprehend why on earth he starts over Zach Kerr and ty McGill. The most undersized, maybe weakest, NT in football. And were so dumb we start him! When we have better talent sitting on the bench!!

[Tmoney]

54 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Ok, I can see your still on the "Dorsett's already a Bust!" bandwagon, but Green won't be going anywhere. 2 reasons: He was a rookie last season, and most rookies don't do all that well in coverage. Also, the last rookie who had one of the worst coverage grades in the NFL? Landon Collins. I sure wonder how that turned out in his sophomore year?

Was he 91st out of 91 safeties tho? I'm not giving up on TJ, but dam was that a bad pick, probably sitting there a round later

[ztboiler]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Even if someone would think Morrison is a disappointment,  there's ZERO reason to cut him from a cheap affordable rookie contract.     There's way more downside than upside to cutting him.    He's going to go elsewhere and what if he becomes decent.     Players typically get much better after Year 1 and more after Year 2.       I see no reason to cut him.

 

As for Gore?     I think Pagano and Chudzinski would encourage a new GM to keep him.    That's he worth the modest contract that he has.    That we want him on the field and in the locker-room.

 

I'd guess veterans like DQJ and Art Jones.    Especially if Jones won't re-do his contract again.   

 

I don't see the upside of cutting any of the young guys.    Too much downside and not enough upside risk.

 

Not really arguing whether I believe either Morrison or Gore should be cut...just their vulnerability.  It's barely worth discussing whether DQ or Art Jones should be cut.  Those guys are givens.

 

Morrison is discussion worthy because his skill set could easily not fit a new vision - 2nd year low cost player or not - these things happen, and they tell us a lot when they do.  Roster space is precious.

 

Gore is unique among the veterans...new vision might easily say that good enough isn't good enough.  His contract may be modest enough, but you have to count the cost...the opportunity cost.

[gacoop1]

Dwayne Allen for sure, get a draft pick any round will do and most of the Aging Players.

[Defjamz26]

1 hour ago, WarGhost21 said:

Ok, I can see your still on the "Dorsett's already a Bust!" bandwagon, but Green won't be going anywhere. 2 reasons: He was a rookie last season, and most rookies don't do all that well in coverage. Also, the last rookie who had one of the worst coverage grades in the NFL? Landon Collins. I sure wonder how that turned out in his sophomore year?

But Collins knew how to play safety. Green doesn't and doesn't show any signs that he'll make a miraculous turnaround. Plus it's not like his ceiling is high anyways. He's going to upgrade from terrible to almost serviceable? There are better safeties in this draft. And a bet a bunch of GMs wouldn't have drafted him. D'Juon Smith got cut his second year too. I don't hear people saying he should've gotten another chance.

 

 I'm not saying all of these guys should be cut but some should be traded. Give the new GM as much ammunition as possible.  If Justin Gilbert was worth a 6th, then Dorsett's gotta be worth at least that much. Allen should be able to get you a 4th a 5th.

20 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Dwayne Allen for a 5th is terrible. Sure I think Jack might take his starting job, but he has a role on this team as the physical blocking TE who can make contested catches over the middle. TJ Green was god awful this year, but give the kid 1 more year to prove he can't hang in this league he's got all the potential in the world. If we draft a safety I hope its not this year, Darius butler should be re signed played great at FS, and why not give mike Adams 1 more year if need be. Morrison is a 2 down lb at best in the NFL, would love to upgrade him and Edwin. And David parry should be cut!! I can't even comprehend why on earth he starts over Zach Kerr and ty McGill. The most undersized, maybe weakest, NT in football. And were so dumb we start him! When we have better talent sitting on the bench!!

 Allen gets payed too much to just block and occasionally make a catch across the middle. His hands are also suspect. Doyle deserves the money Allen is getting. I can't look around the league and see any team with a $29 million TE who just blocks and is basically 3rd string. You can't pay a guy who isn't a starter, starter money. Especially when said player isn't the best at his position on the team. Plus you should be happy. If his value as a physical blocking TE who makes contested catches is as high as you say then we'll get an even better pick for him than a 5th.

[WarGhost21]

30 minutes ago, Tmoney said:

Was he 91st out of 91 safeties tho? I'm not giving up on TJ, but dam was that a bad pick, probably sitting there a round later

Reading in most places on the internet, around draft time, Green was projected to go even higher, seriously doubt he would still be there. Also, looking at the names between Green and Clark in the third round, who in that area would you rather have taken?

 

8 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

But Collins knew how to play safety. Green doesn't and doesn't show any signs that he'll make a miraculous turnaround. Plus it's not like his ceiling is high anyways. He's going to upgrade from terrible to almost serviceable? There are better safeties in this draft. And a bet a bunch of GMs wouldn't have drafted him. D'Juon Smith got cut his second year too. I don't hear people saying he should've gotten another chance.

 

 I'm not saying all of these guys should be cut but some should be traded. Give the new GM as much ammunition as possible.  If Justin Gilbert was worth a 6th, then Dorsett's gotta be worth at least that much. Allen should be able to get you a 4th a 5th.

What makes you think Green doesn't know how to play safety. One bad year in coverage doesn't mean he can't play. That's like saying after Peyton Manning's bad rookie season that he can't play quarterback (Big reach, but thats the only comparison I could think of off the top of my head). If anything else, he's a quality back up. It's not like we need to dump his cheap rookie deal

[Defjamz26]

10 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Reading in most places on the internet, around draft time, Green was projected to go even higher, seriously doubt he would still be there. Also, looking at the names between Green and Clark in the third round, who in that area would you rather have taken?

 

What makes you think Green doesn't know how to play safety. One bad year in coverage doesn't mean he can't play. That's like saying after Peyton Manning's bad rookie season that he can't play quarterback (Big reach, but thats the only comparison I could think of off the top of my head). If anything else, he's a quality back up. It's not like we need to dump his cheap rookie deal

Manning also set what would be the record for TDs by a rookie QB until 2012 when Wilson tied it. He also held the rookie records for passing yards in a season and a single game. Green hasn't done anything spectacular his rookie year besides look like he can't play football. He's speedy and that's it. And in no way is he a quality backup. If he weren't a high round pick, he would've been on the PS.

 

"Cheap rookie deal " gets used way too much around here. Who cares if they're cheap. If they're underperforming and you can get better then you move on from them. Either trade them or cut them. Why let people who aren't good take up a roster spot? It's not like this is rare either. Green-Beckham got traded after a year. Eric Rowe did. D'Juon got cut after a year where he was injured for most of it. Stanley Jean-Baptiste. What makes Green so special? Why is it always the Colts players who are above reproach?

[WarGhost21]

6 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Manning also set what would be the record for TDs by a rookie QB until 2012 when Wilson tied it. He also held the rookie records for passing yards in a season and a single game. Green hasn't done anything spectacular his rookie year besides look like he can't play football. He's speedy and that's it. And in no way is he a quality backup. If he weren't a high round pick, he would've been on the PS.

 

"Cheap rookie deal " gets used way too much around here. Who cares if they're cheap. If they're underperforming and you can get better then you move on from them. Either trade them or cut them. Why let people who aren't good take up a roster spot? It's not like this is rare either. Green-Beckham got traded after a year. Eric Rowe did. D'Juon got cut after a year where he was injured for most of it. Stanley Jean-Baptiste. What makes Green so special? Why is it always the Colts players who are above reproach?

I did say it was a bad comparison. But still, give the kid a chance. 

 

In regards to the other players you listed. Green-Beckham and Rowe had terrible work ethic, and D'Juon and Jean Baptiste were too injury prone. In that regard, he is much more worthy of a roster spot than these players.

[Defjamz26]

Just now, WarGhost21 said:

I did say it was a bad comparison. But still, give the kid a chance. 

 

In regards to the other players you listed. Green-Beckham and Rowe had terrible work ethic, and D'Juon and Jean Baptiste were too injury prone. In that regard, he is much more worthy of a roster spot than these players.

Terrible work ethic but teams still traded for them? And the Eagles GM just released a statement talking about the Rowe trade. He didn't mention work ethic. He basically said he was super low on the depth chart due to talent. But what about Dominique Easley or Justin Gilbert? Or are we just going to continue to act like Green is above reproach for some odd reason.

[TKnight24]

10 hours ago, ztboiler said:

A change in GM equals increased roster turnover compared to standard.  No loyalty to underperforming draft picks, questionable fits for scheme adjustments, aging vets.....

 

It's interesting to consider potential winners and losers among the players...obviously depends a lot on who is selected.

 

First young player that comes to my mind who is more vulnerable now than before...Antonio Morrison. 

 

First vet player that comes to mind....Frank Gore.

Ship Dwayne Allen to Pittsburgh for a draft pick. Move forwardwith Doyle & Swoope

[TKnight24]

42 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Terrible work ethic but teams still traded for them? And the Eagles GM just released a statement talking about the Rowe trade. He didn't mention work ethic. He basically said he was super low on the depth chart due to talent. But what about Dominique Easley or Justin Gilbert? Or are we just going to continue to act like Green is above reproach for some odd reason.

If Eric Rowe couldn't get on the field with that terrible Secondary in philly, had to be work ethic. There's no talent in that secondary aside from M. Jenkins

 

Now Rowe is in a better secondary in NE and he made a few plays against the Steelers. Might have made more plays in that game than he did his entire time in Philly 

[lollygagger8]

If somehow, somebody traded Colts (whatever the pick/player was) for Allen, would we eat the dead money, or would the team that got him pick everything up? 

[chad72]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Loser:  butler.  

 

Maybe Grigson's best find and has been very solid here but is an aging free agent.  I doubt a new GM brings him back.

 

Butler's argument in favor of his is that Mike Adams is old, and that Butler was tried at free safety, might have opened a few eyes on the defensive coaches' side. He is good with his eyes on the QB because his tendencies to break on the ball will help him at that position, so he makes it as free safety over Mike Adams for our future, IMO.

 

If we get a #2 CB in FA or the draft, we can let Patrick Robinson play nickel which I think he is suited to and have 2 strong safeties in T.J.Green and Geathers and might suit those young players' strengths better, IMO.

[chad72]

40 minutes ago, TKnight24 said:

If Eric Rowe couldn't get on the field with that terrible Secondary in philly, had to be work ethic. There's no talent in that secondary aside from M. Jenkins

 

Now Rowe is in a better secondary in NE and he made a few plays against the Steelers. Might have made more plays in that game than he did his entire time in Philly 

 

Eric Rowe was pretty much trailing most of the time and the guy that beat him would not come down with the catch. Same thing with Patrick Chung, he couldn't cover squat in Philly. Then Will Fuller drops a sure fire TD against Chung in the divisional round game. Just that folks with sure hands do not fight enough for the ball or complete the plays, it seems like. It must be that playing in NE gets players to forget to do what they normally do right.

 

If you are going to beat the Patriots, it starts with believing you can beat them anywhere. That is why Joe Flacco and the Ravens have played well there because they go in with the swagger that they CAN beat them.

[Smonroe]

44 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

If somehow, somebody traded Colts (whatever the pick/player was) for Allen, would we eat the dead money, or would the team that got him pick everything up? 

 

That's complicated.  In some instances Yes, and in some it's partial.  If you want to hurt your head, read this article.

 

http://overthecap.com/trading-dead-money-nfl-expiring-contract/

[dgambill]

If we don't think Dwayne is worth the money we are paying him then why in HADES do we think another team is going to offer to pay him that money?? Dwayne I'm sure is 90% safe. He knows the system...still productive in the redzone and while he is underperforming he costs way to much to cut and doesn't seem to be a locker room problem. Lets just cut to the chase....if we all can see Doyle outplaying Dwayne then the rest of the league can see it too....and guess what...Jack is a FA and can sign with anyone...and just costs them whatever contract they give him (no picks). We will be lucky to get Jack back this year honestly....but for the rest of the NFL he is a cheaper superior alternative then Allen. So more than likely Dwayne will be back...he best knows the offense and we know what he brings as opposed to Swoopes and anyone else we might put in.

 

Young guys like Dorsett and Green aren't likely going anywhere either. They aren't expensive and still have a great deal of upside. They may not get re-signed or they move down the depth chart but if they aren't causing a ruckus I see no reason to give up so soon on them. Besides maybe our new WR coach will help Dorsett out. He has the talent...we just need to work with him and also figure out where and when to get him the ball. Green is a project...he likely doesn't have the same leash that Grigson would have had with him but I think he gets at least another year to see if he improves...that said it wouldn't surprise me for a new gm to draft like Green isn't part of his plans....he can't take the risk that he doesn't pan out. Green will have to earn his way on to the field...Dorsett is very much our clear #3 receiver and I think even a new GM would see it that way. 

 

Vets like Cole and DQ are likely gone....I'm sure Adams and Butler probably too. A new GM will likely see that we just aren't good enough with them so we will need to upgrade. I'd like Butler to stay and help in the secondary because of his versatility but Adams, Cole and DQ's age and issues probably mean its time to move on. If the defense is going to be worst in the league than why not do it with young players that are learning than old ones? Gore I think stays and helps that backfield....he really seems to still have something left in the tank. He ain't going to break out a big run but he will grind out those tough yards and is a good leader in the locker room. A new GM could look at drafting his replacement though...but with Turbin I think the back field is stable. I think guys like Morrison and say guys like Good and McNary and Reitz and Thorton would be guys that will have the most to worry about. Oh and Arthur Jones I just don't see how we keep paying him...very likely cut.

[twfish]

4 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Every time I hear the name 'Landon Collins' I wince.  What could have been....

95% of the forum would be calling him a bust because his rookie season was pretty bad.... that's what would have been

[Defjamz26]

45 minutes ago, dgambill said:

If we don't think Dwayne is worth the money we are paying him then why in HADES do we think another team is going to offer to pay him that money?? Dwayne I'm sure is 90% safe. He knows the system...still productive in the redzone and while he is underperforming he costs way to much to cut and doesn't seem to be a locker room problem. Lets just cut to the chase....if we all can see Doyle outplaying Dwayne then the rest of the league can see it too....and guess what...Jack is a FA and can sign with anyone...and just costs them whatever contract they give him (no picks). We will be lucky to get Jack back this year honestly....but for the rest of the NFL he is a cheaper superior alternative then Allen. So more than likely Dwayne will be back...he best knows the offense and we know what he brings as opposed to Swoopes and anyone else we might put in.

 

Young guys like Dorsett and Green aren't likely going anywhere either. They aren't expensive and still have a great deal of upside. They may not get re-signed or they move down the depth chart but if they aren't causing a ruckus I see no reason to give up so soon on them. Besides maybe our new WR coach will help Dorsett out. He has the talent...we just need to work with him and also figure out where and when to get him the ball. Green is a project...he likely doesn't have the same leash that Grigson would have had with him but I think he gets at least another year to see if he improves...that said it wouldn't surprise me for a new gm to draft like Green isn't part of his plans....he can't take the risk that he doesn't pan out. Green will have to earn his way on to the field...Dorsett is very much our clear #3 receiver and I think even a new GM would see it that way. 

 

Vets like Cole and DQ are likely gone....I'm sure Adams and Butler probably too. A new GM will likely see that we just aren't good enough with them so we will need to upgrade. I'd like Butler to stay and help in the secondary because of his versatility but Adams, Cole and DQ's age and issues probably mean its time to move on. If the defense is going to be worst in the league than why not do it with young players that are learning than old ones? Gore I think stays and helps that backfield....he really seems to still have something left in the tank. He ain't going to break out a big run but he will grind out those tough yards and is a good leader in the locker room. A new GM could look at drafting his replacement though...but with Turbin I think the back field is stable. I think guys like Morrison and say guys like Good and McNary and Reitz and Thorton would be guys that will have the most to worry about. Oh and Arthur Jones I just don't see how we keep paying him...very likely cut.

Tired of hearing this. What talent!? He's fast, that's it. He wasn't even good in college. Grigson is gone. Why still make excuses for his picks?

[Yoshinator]

22 minutes ago, twfish said:

95% of the forum would be calling him a bust because his rookie season was pretty bad.... that's what would have been

Probably, but they wouldn't be calling him a bust after his sophomore season like Dorsett. Also, Pagano might of got some credit for developing a defensive player that was drafted.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

37 minutes ago, twfish said:

95% of the forum would be calling him a bust because his rookie season was pretty bad.... that's what would have been

No. He was rated bad by PFF, but if you watched the Giants every weekend, he showed you flashes. He made plays. Polar opposite of Greens rookie season. 

I think the fans would be happy with a safety that showed promise. Way more so than a wide reciever that wasn't needed and been basically invisible even his sophomore year.  

[Carlos Danger]

Im doubting that we release any of the underperforming draft picks mentioned... We need cheap bodies, especially if we jettison some aging vets. I would be all in on bringing in guys who supplant those guys, but we will still need to round out the roster...