Colts Pressure: Dead Last Both Sides

[Luck2Hilton4TD]

http://horseshoeheroes.com/2016/11/29/colts-pressure-problems-continue-concern/

 

Not surprising, but pretty incredible that we're dead last on both offense and defense. 

[BullsColtsFan1]

I am not surprised.  The pass rush was the best has been all year vs Tenn but I am not even sure the Colts hit Big Ben.  Walden's put up ok numbers but that's it.  The O-line just can't protect.  One game it's ok the next game it's awful. 

[GoColts8818]

Sounds about right.  Colts problems remain upfront on both sides of the ball.  The one bright side is that they do have some younger players on both sides that are showing promise but still need more talent.

[lollygagger8]

[runthepost]

Almost half of dropbacks 

 

[Superman]

Protection is not good, but the Colts are also among the slowest from snap to throw, which is my major gripe.

[PeterBowman]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

Protection is not good, but the Colts are also among the slowest from snap to throw, which is my major gripe.

yep, constantly going for the big play hasn't helped. Especially when being blitzed. Shorter passes would help out tremendously. Honestly I'm not sure if it's the play calls or if that's just how Luck is wired and won't look short as often as he should if it's there.

[21isSuperman]

1 minute ago, PeterBowman said:

yep, constantly going for the big play hasn't helped. Especially when being blitzed. Shorter passes would help out tremendously. Honestly I'm not sure if it's the play calls or if that's just how Luck is wired and won't look short as often as he should if it's there.

I think it's both.  I don't re-watch games, but I've noticed Luck frequently eyeing the deep routes on a play.  Perhaps that's where the progression goes and what Chud tells him to do.  Chud also doesn't call a lot of short passes, for whatever reason.  I think Luck needs a new coach to really wire that into him.  Take what the defense gives you and slowly but surely move the ball down the field instead of always looking for the 20 yard pass

[DougDew]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

Protection is not good, but the Colts are also among the slowest from snap to throw, which is my major gripe.

Yep. Yep.  And even more yep. 

 

BTW, did I say yep?

[Superman]

12 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

yep, constantly going for the big play hasn't helped. Especially when being blitzed. Shorter passes would help out tremendously. Honestly I'm not sure if it's the play calls or if that's just how Luck is wired and won't look short as often as he should if it's there.

 

There aren't always short options, especially quick hitters. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I think it's both.  I don't re-watch games, but I've noticed Luck frequently eyeing the deep routes on a play.  Perhaps that's where the progression goes and what Chud tells him to do.  Chud also doesn't call a lot of short passes, for whatever reason.  I think Luck needs a new coach to really wire that into him.  Take what the defense gives you and slowly but surely move the ball down the field instead of always looking for the 20 yard pass

I would like to see Andrew under Chuds system for a second full year. The offence shows promise. Often this year we're lining up 2-3 rookies on the Oline. Luck has ran through a few coordinators in his short time in the NFL. Maybe a little patience and consistency pays off. 

[SteelCityColt]

Swap the D Line and O Line over, problem solved.

[SteelCityColt]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

There aren't always short options, especially quick hitters. 

 

Without meaning to sound disparaging, if every man and his guide dog can see this surely the coaching staff must too.

 

Slants, screens etc. Where art thou? 

[Somewhere ovr the Waynebow]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

Protection is not good, but the Colts are also among the slowest from snap to throw, which is my major gripe.

To me, there is some talent along the offensive line. The struggles are a symptom,  not the root cause.  Until this offense changes nothing will drastically improve on the line. 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Somewhere ovr the Waynebow said:

To me, there is some talent along the offensive line. The struggles are a symptom,  not the root cause.  Until this offense changes nothing will drastically improve on the line. 

 

I agree. The line has issues, but it's not as bad as this ranking suggests. 

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Without meaning to sound disparaging, if every man and his guide dog can see this surely the coaching staff must too.

 

Slants, screens etc. Where art thou? 

 

I don't know what to say.

[pgt_rob]

Even though the O-Line needs some new talent, we need that premier pass rusher again. Hopefully we go after one in the draft and then maybe a CB or ILB in the 2nd round. Any guards or tackles worth while to go after in FA next season?

[DougDew]

30 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Without meaning to sound disparaging, if every man and his guide dog can see this surely the coaching staff must too.

 

Slants, screens etc. Where art thou? 

And yet the same OC had no problems moving the ball with Hasselbeck running the short game last year.  Lets not overthink this, if the Constant is the coaching staff, and the Variable is the QB, then the difference in the short passing game is probably due to the QB.

 

Unless the coaches call a different game depending upon who's playing QB, then maybe they need to treat Luck more like a younger player who needs to be spoon-fed short throws.  I think they've decided, for whatever reason, that's not going to happen.

 

I've said it before, I'm beginning to think that the staff or Luck himself does not have total confidence in his ability to string many short passes together accurately enough to sustain multiplay drives.

[cdgacoltsfan]

• I remember when Harbaugh got sacked like 50 + times.  In comes Peyton and the sacks were cut in half in his first year. You cant stand back there for 5+ seconds.

[Coltfreak]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

There aren't always short options, especially quick hitters. 

They need to watch the Green Bay game plan from last night...  There was no time for Rogers to get hit....  Loved it

[smittywerb]

If our first 3 picks in next year's draft isn't lineman or an OLB, I may boycott the team. lol

[will426]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

And yet the same OC had no problems moving the ball with Hasselbeck running the short game last year.  Lets not overthink this, if the Constant is the coaching staff, and the Variable is the QB, then the difference in the short passing game is probably due to the QB.

 

Unless the coaches call a different game depending upon who's playing QB, then maybe they need to treat Luck more like a younger player who needs to be spoon-fed short throws.  I think they've decided, for whatever reason, that's not going to happen.

 

I've said it before, I'm beginning to think that the staff or Luck himself does not have total confidence in his ability to string many short passes together accurately enough to sustain multiplay drives.

This 

[Coltfreak]

5 minutes ago, will426 said:

This 

Might be Luck's desire but it's the coaches that need to make him do it differently....

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

They need to watch the Green Bay game plan from last night...  There was no time for Rogers to get hit....  Loved it

 

Just turn on Red Zone and throw a dart. Pretty much every team with a good QB uses quick hitters more often than the Colts do. 

[will426]

4 minutes ago, Coltfreak said:

Might be Luck's desire but it's the coaches that need to make him do it differently....

This coaching gave Mh a simple offense to run in lucks absence which consisted of quick passes but for some reason they refuse to use a simple offense for luck to utilize his receivers better

[21isSuperman]

4 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I would like to see Andrew under Chuds system for a second full year. The offence shows promise. Often this year we're lining up 2-3 rookies on the Oline. Luck has ran through a few coordinators in his short time in the NFL. Maybe a little patience and consistency pays off. 

The problem isn't that Luck isn't used to Chud's system.  The problem is that Luck tends to look for the deep play a lot more often than he should, and Chud doesn't call a lot of quick hitters.  Those quick hitters, like slant routes, are a good way to make defenses tired and neutralize their pass rush, which would really help out the OL and Luck.

 

3 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Without meaning to sound disparaging, if every man and his guide dog can see this surely the coaching staff must too.

 

Slants, screens etc. Where art thou? 

Not necessarily.  Don't forget, our head coach is the same guy who said he doesn't like to use the no-huddle that much because it doesn't let the offense substitute players, despite how well our offense moved the ball using the no-huddle.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Not necessarily.  Don't forget, our head coach is the same guy who said he doesn't like to use the no-huddle that much because it doesn't let the offense substitute players, despite how well our offense moved the ball using the no-huddle.

I think this is part of it.  In an effort to maximize the players' talents to what they do best, I think coaches tend to over engineer, over manage, the situational personnel packages.

 

[Jdubu]

8 hours ago, Luck2Hilton4TD said:

http://horseshoeheroes.com/2016/11/29/colts-pressure-problems-continue-concern/

 

Not surprising, but pretty incredible that we're dead last on both offense and defense. 

I am not surprised in the least bit here as this has been what my eyes have seen all year. We aren't great at any one thing on either side of the ball. We are pretty good at the QB spot and pretty decent at the wr spot and IMHO, we are going to be an above avg oline in a year. On defense, we have one really good CB who is hurt too much to be considered really great. Probably going to be good enough next year in the entire secondary minus the 2nd CB spot unless Melvin becomes that guy and he is looking pretty promising. 

 

7 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

This is just about my expression so many times during the game when we are gaming to throw 30 yard patterns and our oline can't hold a block for more than 2 1/2 seconds. Or when we can't get that 1 yard in 4 attempts or when the defense gives up 18 yards on 3rd and 17 

[Jdubu]

6 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

yep, constantly going for the big play hasn't helped. Especially when being blitzed. Shorter passes would help out tremendously. Honestly I'm not sure if it's the play calls or if that's just how Luck is wired and won't look short as often as he should if it's there.

If it's Luck wired that way, you design plays that force him short as an OC. My hope is they use the short game early on, wear the defense down a bit with a few sustained drives and then work in the longer passes after that. We just don't have very good brain talent in this coaching staff on offense that has a pourous oline. 

[Jdubu]

6 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I think it's both.  I don't re-watch games, but I've noticed Luck frequently eyeing the deep routes on a play.  Perhaps that's where the progression goes and what Chud tells him to do.  Chud also doesn't call a lot of short passes, for whatever reason.  I think Luck needs a new coach to really wire that into him.  Take what the defense gives you and slowly but surely move the ball down the field instead of always looking for the 20 yard pass

I concur 1000%

[Steamboat_Shaun]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

And yet the same OC had no problems moving the ball with Hasselbeck running the short game last year.  Lets not overthink this, if the Constant is the coaching staff, and the Variable is the QB, then the difference in the short passing game is probably due to the QB.

 

Unless the coaches call a different game depending upon who's playing QB, then maybe they need to treat Luck more like a younger player who needs to be spoon-fed short throws.  I think they've decided, for whatever reason, that's not going to happen.

 

I've said it before, I'm beginning to think that the staff or Luck himself does not have total confidence in his ability to string many short passes together accurately enough to sustain multiplay drives.

 

They definitely seemed to be calling an entirely different type of game vs Pittsburgh with Tolzien in the game, and it was pretty effective, even with Harrison playing center. I felt like there were more 3-step drops & slants in that game alone than what we saw the entire first 10 weeks.

[NewColtsFan]

 

Being dead last on both sides of the line of scrimmage is pretty much the story of our 2016 season.

 

Sad,  but true.

 

[Jdubu]

5 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Without meaning to sound disparaging, if every man and his guide dog can see this surely the coaching staff must too.

 

Slants, screens etc. Where art thou? 

Well, we haven't been able to successfully run a screen since Edge. We did so a few weeks ago and then never seen it again. As for the slants, bubble screens and crossing routes. I mean, wth are they doing not using these when we have little fast shifty guys and a 6'2" monceif? I just can't seem to understand what this team is trying to be. It's almost like they want to be someone they can't be and trying against their ability only to keep failing. It would be like me trying to not be 5'7 and half broke all the time and a little soft in the mid section.  I'd like to be 6'2, sculpted and tan with a 7 figure income but I'll never be that. 

[gacoop1]

Dead last on both sides of the ball, Sad.  Again, beating a dead horse here but i have to release my frustrations.  Get rid of Pags and Grigs duo.  They're the pits in the league and the Colts will never achieve success if these two are still around.  Bank on it....

[21isSuperman]

28 minutes ago, gacoop1 said:

Dead last on both sides of the ball, Sad.  Again, beating a dead horse here but i have to release my frustrations.  Get rid of Pags and Grigs duo.  They're the pits in the league and the Colts will never achieve success if these two are still around.  Bank on it....

"Protect 12" though, right?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jdubu said:

Well, we haven't been able to successfully run a screen since Edge. We did so a few weeks ago and then never seen it again. As for the slants, bubble screens and crossing routes. I mean, wth are they doing not using these when we have little fast shifty guys and a 6'2" monceif? I just can't seem to understand what this team is trying to be. It's almost like they want to be someone they can't be and trying against their ability only to keep failing. It would be like me trying to not be 5'7 and half broke all the time and a little soft in the mid section.  I'd like to be 6'2, sculpted and tan with a 7 figure income but I'll never be that. 

 

The numbers aren't quite the same,  but I think we might be distantly related!     

 

I'm not sure if that's good news or bad news for either one of us!!      

 

[CanuckColtsFan]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

The problem isn't that Luck isn't used to Chud's system.  The problem is that Luck tends to look for the deep play a lot more often than he should, and Chud doesn't call a lot of quick hitters.  Those quick hitters, like slant routes, are a good way to make defenses tired and neutralize their pass rush, which would really help out the OL and Luck.

 

Not necessarily.  Don't forget, our head coach is the same guy who said he doesn't like to use the no-huddle that much because it doesn't let the offense substitute players, despite how well our offense moved the ball using the no-huddle.

There's a bunch of quick hitters to the TE. Lots of the get tipped or dropped. I'm seeing what your say about slants a drag routes though. The WRs don't see many short quick routes. Moncreif was missing for a bunch of the season though and Hilton and Dorset's strengths don't lend themselves to beating people with body position in traffic. I feel like the teams ability to block in space is limited too, so screens, and quick passes in the flats get blown up and tipped a lot. Luck is good when he holds the ball most of the time. He's like Big Ben and Rodgers in that they hold the ball and make plays. In. The mean time it's scary to watch all those hits. I feel like with a bit more continuity and maybe another blue chip player and the Oline can block to suit Lucks strength.

 

Its coach what you have vs coach how you want to be in some ways. 

 

I do agree Chucks statements on hurry up are befuddling 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Ill say it. Luck just straight up is unable or unwilling to hit he short throws. Sorry, but it's the truth.

 

It's not the playcalls or the gameplan. I've rewatched every game this year and Luck has plenty of open guys short or checkdownd, yet does not throw to them. Very, very disappointing to rewatch and pay attention to. 

 

He needs to have that trained into him or do it himself. I'm a bit frustrated watching it honestly. 

[zibby43]

5 hours ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Ill say it. Luck just straight up is unable or unwilling to hit he short throws. Sorry, but it's the truth.

 

It's not the playcalls or the gameplan. I've rewatched every game this year and Luck has plenty of open guys short or checkdownd, yet does not throw to them. Very, very disappointing to rewatch and pay attention to. 

 

He needs to have that trained into him or do it himself. I'm a bit frustrated watching it honestly. 

 

I don't think the rest of us are watching the same all-22 film that you are. 

 

We're not talking about check down routes that may be available when the RBs/TEs aren't helping in pass-pro.  We're talking about giving Luck some 3-step drops paired with quick slants to guys like Moncrief. 

 

As others have explained in great detail, the Colts offense is simply not utilizing short, quick-hitting, passing concepts on a consistent basis.  Luck is more than capable of connecting on those throws, and there is a strong argument to be made that running more slants, drags, quick outs, etc. will 1) help the offensive line/slow down the opposing pass rush; 2) help Luck and the offense to get in a rhythm/set up the longer-developing, downfield routes/deep crosses. 

[theanarchist]

18 hours ago, Luck2Hilton4TD said:

http://horseshoeheroes.com/2016/11/29/colts-pressure-problems-continue-concern/

 

Not surprising, but pretty incredible that we're dead last on both offense and defense. 

I like how the article eludes to Trent Cole coming back being a boost. Just not realistic. He has done very little since being here and I'm being kind.

 

These issues with lack of pass rush and lack of protection are big big problems and not easily fixed. Good pass rushers do not grow on trees.