2015 Draft Redo - Colts 1st two picks

[rockywoj]

At the time of the 2015 draft, this is what I was wanting the Colts first two picks to be and if we had a redo based on the info at the time, I stand by this ...

 

1.  S Landon Collins (Colts instead took WR Phillip Dorsett.  Collins was drafted four picks later by the NYG at the top of the 2nd round)

 

2.  OG A.J. Cann (Colts instead took D'Joun Smith.  Cann was drafted two picks later by the Jaguars.)

 

 

So so how much better would the Colts now be with the picks I advocated at the time, Collins & Cann, versus Dorsett & D'Joun Smith?

 

[NorthernBlue]

Well obviously they'd be better, but it's a lot easier to say that after the fact.

[Superman]

How about two guys I liked before the draft?

 

Eric Kendricks and Tyler Lockett. Still going with Henry Anderson in the 3rd. 

[braveheartcolt]

We should have taken Tom Brady in the 6th, all those years ago. 

[rockywoj]

6 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

Well obviously they'd be better, but it's a lot easier to say that after the fact.

Well, the two I mention I said during the draft as it was happening.  I am not cherry picking retrospectively.  

 

It is now obvious, D'Joun vs Cann, as I am pretty sure our OL would be well boosted by Cann as compared to the nothingness provided by D'Joun.  I haven't followed Cann since the draft, though, so I am just wondering if anybody here knows how well he is actually doing.   Would A.J. Cann be an appreciable upgrade at OG as compared to what we currently have on the right side?

 

I have not totally written off Dorsett, as I am well aware that WRs very often take a few years to really get going, especially when set back by injury like Dorsett was last year.  Given our current secondary, would Landon Collins be an appreciable upgrade over what we have, as compared to what our WR depth would be without Dorsett?  I see that Collins seems to be doing very well this year, but I don't know how he was last year or whether this year is more of a recent flash or if he has been consistently good.   Thus, I am again just wondering if any of the learned forum member have insight / evaluation to offer up. ?

[rockywoj]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

How about two guys I liked before the draft?

 

Eric Kendricks and Tyler Lockett. Still going with Henry Anderson in the 3rd. 

I agree on Henry Anderson in the 3rd!

 

I don't know much of anything on the other two you mention.  

[UKColt13]

I was screaming for Eric Kendricks with our 1st pick on draft night and throughout the draft process. I'd stick with that pick. Would instantly improve our dumpster fire linebacking corps.

 

Personally I wanted Quinten Rollins with our 2nd but he went a few picks before us if I remember right.

[ztboiler]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

Well, the two I mention I said during the draft as it was happening.  I am not cherry picking retrospectively.  

 

It is now obvious, D'Joun vs Cann, as I am pretty sure our OL would be well boosted by Cann as compared to the nothingness provided by D'Joun.  I haven't followed Cann since the draft, though, so I am just wondering if anybody here knows how well he is actually doing.   Would A.J. Cann be an appreciable upgrade at OG as compared to what we currently have on the right side?

 

I have not totally written off Dorsett, as I am well aware that WRs very often take a few years to really get going, especially when set back by injury like Dorsett was last year.  Given our current secondary, would Landon Collins be an appreciable upgrade over what we have, as compared to what our WR depth would be without Dorsett?  I see that Collins seems to be doing very well this year, but I don't know how he was last year or whether this year is more of a recent flash or if he has been consistently good.   Thus, I am again just wondering if any of the learned forum member have insight / evaluation to offer up. ?

Anybody who says that they know how AJ Cann  is doing was probably paid to know.  Nobody would do that for free unless a Jags fan.

 

Landon Collins made some highlights recently but he has hardly been anything special to date. Collins has certainly not been someone I'd rather have than Dorsett particularly from a long-term career value standpoint.  Nor is he someone I'd rather have than Geathers.  

 

Truthfully very few of us have enough information about other teams players to have a meaningful evaluation. There are probably better options than Collins and AJ Cann if doing a 2015 redo.

 

[Happy2BeHere]

25 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Anybody who says that they know how AJ Cann  is doing was probably paid to know.  Nobody would do that for free unless a Jags fan.

 

Landon Collins made some highlights recently but he has hardly been anything special to date. Collins has certainly not been someone I'd rather have than Dorsett particularly from a long-term career value standpoint.  Nor is he someone I'd rather have than Geathers.  

 

Truthfully very few of us have enough information about other teams players to have a meaningful evaluation. There are probably better options than Collins and AJ Cann if doing a 2015 redo.

 

How Cann you say this ??  

[ztboiler]

8 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

How Cann you say this ??  

I can't but Caroline Cann

 

[Boiler_Colt]

2 hours ago, rockywoj said:

I agree on Henry Anderson in the 3rd!

 

I don't know much of anything on the other two you mention.  

Lockett was a pro bowler last year and Kendricks will be this year. I can agree I would have gone Kendricks, Lockett and Anderson as well. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[jseg18]

We should have taken Tom Brady in the 6th, all those years ago. 

All respect to him. He probably wouldn't be in the league.

*

[SaturdayAllDay]

12 hours ago, rockywoj said:

At the time of the 2015 draft, this is what I was wanting the Colts first two picks to be and if we had a redo based on the info at the time, I stand by this ...

 

1.  S Landon Collins (Colts instead took WR Phillip Dorsett.  Collins was drafted four picks later by the NYG at the top of the 2nd round)

 

2.  OG A.J. Cann (Colts instead took D'Joun Smith.  Cann was drafted two picks later by the Jaguars.)

 

 

So so how much better would the Colts now be with the picks I advocated at the time, Collins & Cann, versus Dorsett & D'Joun Smith?

It is impossible to know if we would be better. Collins was not a good player last year, which means that he not only needed some time to acclimate to the speed of the NFL, but probably needed to be coached up a bit. I'm not sure our coaches would have been up to the task. 

And Cann isn't a terrible player, but he has not been a world class player. neither of their rbs are doing well down there, and the protection on Bortles as a whole isn't too much better then ours from what I've seen (although admittedly I've only watched a few Jags games this year). If he was a colt, he could have been good, he could have been terrible. Again it comes down to coaching, as well as who we surrounded him with on the line, as they are mostly graded as a unit. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

11 hours ago, Superman said:

How about two guys I liked before the draft?

 

Eric Kendricks and Tyler Lockett. Still going with Henry Anderson in the 3rd. 

Every time I casually tune in to the Seahawks game it always seems like Tyler Lockett makes a gamebusting play. I absolutely love the guys game  

[COLTS449]

That's kinda dumb if you're looking back on it. Reason being we could have traded back a few spots from the bottom of the 1st to the middle of the 2nd picked up an extra 3rd and probably a 4th or 5th too, and came out with Markus Golden, Jordan Hicks, Danielle Hunter and Henry Anderson with our top 4 picks. Then Kwon Alexander or Stefon Diggs in the 4th. Or Eric Kendricks, Markus Golden, Jordan Hicks, and Henry Anderson. Imagine Jordan Hicks and Eric Kendricks at ILB with Golden coming off the edge.

[COLTS449]

Also. In 2014 if we hadn't given away our 1st I'm pretty sure we could have came out with Dee Ford.......Even though like 4 of his 9 sacks came against us I still believe he's turning the corner and will be a top tier EDGE rusher.

[Defjamz26]

9 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Well, the two I mention I said during the draft as it was happening.  I am not cherry picking retrospectively.  

 

It is now obvious, D'Joun vs Cann, as I am pretty sure our OL would be well boosted by Cann as compared to the nothingness provided by D'Joun.  I haven't followed Cann since the draft, though, so I am just wondering if anybody here knows how well he is actually doing.   Would A.J. Cann be an appreciable upgrade at OG as compared to what we currently have on the right side?

 

I have not totally written off Dorsett, as I am well aware that WRs very often take a few years to really get going, especially when set back by injury like Dorsett was last year.  Given our current secondary, would Landon Collins be an appreciable upgrade over what we have, as compared to what our WR depth would be without Dorsett?  I see that Collins seems to be doing very well this year, but I don't know how he was last year or whether this year is more of a recent flash or if he has been consistently good.   Thus, I am again just wondering if any of the learned forum member have insight / evaluation to offer up. ?

The best receivers in the league were all great in their first two years so that's not necessarily true nowadays. Green, Evans, Julio, Beckham, Cooper, T.Y., etc...

 

"Needs more time to develop " is an often overused phrase people use here whenever some guys with "potential " (which is another overused word) start to look bad. Examples include Josh Chapman, Montori Hughes, Hugh Thornton, Bjornsen Werner, Jonathan Harrison. Unfortunately Dorsett is on the same path as all the other potential/needs time guys of Colts pass.

[Clem-Dog]

If I recall Collins was a popular choice on here as was Kendricks.  I liked Collins myself.

 

 

[scousecolt]

If I were to redo that draft I'd go Collins and Danielle Hunter as the first two picks. Hunter has 10 sacks in his first season and a half and is one of the youngest players in the NFL and super athletic.

[Surge89]

I wanted Kendricks so bad... him and Perryman

 

Honestly I just wanted an ILB... There was so many to choose from and of course Collins and Lockett...

[chrisfarley]

It's dependent on the team, the coaches, the players around them, and a ton of other factors .....if they are uber good, they stand-out in most circumstances..... but at our pick levels, a ton of things come into play.  Forget the apples to apples comparisons, they don't work.

[Dingus McGirt]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 4:16 AM, braveheartcolt said:

We should have taken Tom Brady in the 6th, all those years ago. 

Don't believe you would really have wanted him to come in with Manning on the roster.  LOL

 

[lollygagger8]

I thought Grigs was going to pick Landin Collins as well.

 

But I also thought Grigs was going to pick Xavier Rhodes over Bjorn Werner, but all of this is: 

 

 

 

[Colts_Fan12]

I wanted Eric Kendricks so bad dude is a beast. 

[NeedsADefence]

Lets just face the fact Dorsett sucks. He is not a 1 round draft pick. Heck he is playing more like a 6 or 7 rounds back up that some how get on the field

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Don't believe you would really have wanted him to come in with Manning on the roster.  LOL

 

id take them both

 

it would have been great for the colts to keep him away from NE, even if he never played

 

brady and the patriots would have lost big time in that scenario, but its a win for the colts

[chad72]

But, but, but....it was not good value on Grigson's BPA value chart

[indyagent17]

All of this points to the fact that Grigson  is not a very good judge of talent

[Colts_Fan12]

33 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

All of this points to the fact that Grigson  is not a very good judge of talent

Exactly fans on a msg board should not be better at seeing talent then a GM paid millions 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, indyagent17 said:

All of this points to the fact that Grigson  is not a very good judge of talent

 

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Exactly fans on a msg board should not be better at seeing talent then a GM paid millions 

 

Meh. I still think Dorsett will be a good player. Matter of fact, I think he already is a good player, just isn't used properly.

 

And if you go back and dig up all the bad players that people have loved as prospects, you'll see that there are a lot more bad ideas than good ideas on this very message board.Not a defense of Grigson, he's messed up enough that his ability to judge talent should be questioned. Carry on.

 

I will add, though, my post about Kendricks/Lockett is totally based on hindsight. I didn't like Kendricks at #29, and I'm very loudly on record there since before the 2015 draft. I would have tried very aggressively to trade back. I think I might have talked myself into Lockett at the end of the second, though. I felt like he was a top 60 player, and he was definitely one of my favorites in that draft. So was Anderson. I was ecstatic when he dropped to the Colts. I might even have gone with Anderson at the end of the second, tbh.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

Meh. I still think Dorsett will be a good player. Matter of fact, I think he already is a good player, just isn't used properly.

 

And if you go back and dig up all the bad players that people have loved as prospects, you'll see that there are a lot more bad ideas than good ideas on this very message board.Not a defense of Grigson, he's messed up enough that his ability to judge talent should be questioned. Carry on.

 

I will add, though, my post about Kendricks/Lockett is totally based on hindsight. I didn't like Kendricks at #29, and I'm very loudly on record there since before the 2015 draft. I would have tried very aggressively to trade back. I think I might have talked myself into Lockett at the end of the second, though. I felt like he was a top 60 player, and he was definitely one of my favorites in that draft. So was Anderson. I was ecstatic when he dropped to the Colts. I might even have gone with Anderson at the end of the second, tbh.

I definitely wanted him 29 he fell and I was so excited then we passed 

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I definitely wanted him 29 he fell and I was so excited then we passed 

 

To your credit, you did want Kendricks. I would have been fine with him at #29, just didn't think the value was right. He went at #45, so I was kind of right, but he's easily proving to be worth #29.

 

Probably could have taken a bad trade back and picked up a couple extra picks, and still been ahead of Minnesota in the second round. The Giants gave up 40, 108 and 245 to get to #33 for Collins. I'd have taken that for #29. But overnight deals are a different animal from live draft deals.

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, NeedsADefence said:

Lets just face the fact Dorsett sucks. He is not a 1 round draft pick. Heck he is playing more like a 6 or 7 rounds back up that some how get on the field

 

Well....   if we're going to "face facts" then so should you.      Dorsett does not suck.

 

He may be a disappointment now,  but he definitely doesn't suck.      And he's still young enough and now healthy enough that he's going to improve right before your eyes.

 

As for playing like a 6 or a 7.......   all I can say is......     watch football much?

 

[AZColt11]

Just want to know one thing:  If Dorsett goes and pulls a Reggie Wayne and starts becoming a go-to WR like Wayne did in his 4th season, will any of the nay-sayers say they were wrong?  Not saying it will happen, but I'm not saying it won't either.