I would argue that Grigson's work over the past 2 years is vastly improved

[Hoose]

Grigson gets a lot of blame, and for his first couple of years, it was well deserved. But lets examine the past two years with regard to the Draft, Free Agents, and UFAs. 

 

2015 DRAFT

1. Dorsett. Should prove to be a solid player through the years. Needs to step up a level over the next few weeks. I think he will. 

2. D'Joun Smith. A miss. But only because he's never healthy. 

3. Henry Anderson. A big time win. Lets hope he gets back to playing shape by mid season. He's still slowed by the knee a bit. Great player.

4. Clayton Geathers. A big time win. Should be a starting safety for years to come. 

5. David Parry. Solid player. May be playing out of position at NT. Would like to see him at DT. But a keeper. 

6. Josh Robinson and Amarlo Herrera. Gone and forgotten. 

7. Denzelle Good. A huge win. Getting a starting offensive lineman in the 7th round? Very rare. 

 

2016 DRAFT

1. Ryan Kelly. Should be an anchor at Center for years to come. 

2. TJ Green. So far, so good. Should pair with Geathers to anchor the safety position in a high performing manner. 

3. Le'Raven Clark. An intentional pick for the future. Time will tell if it was a worthwhile gamble but he has the intangibles. 

4. Hassan Ridgeway. So far, so good. This is a position that takes time to master. Solid for a 4th rounder. 

4. Antonio Morrison. Needs to improve his coverage skills but for a rookie he shows genuine promise. 

5. Joe Haeg. Another 5th round gem and appears to have the skills to develop into a solid starter. 

7. Trevor Bates. Practice squad. Could be good. No clue yet. 

7. Austin Blythe. Needs work but for a 7th rounder they have a potential long time backup at Center and Guard. 

 

These two drafts have been strong. Grigson should get some credit for that, given all the appropriate criticism he received for his first few efforts. 

 

Recent Free Agents

1. Mike Adams. A defensive anchor. Where the D would be without him I don't want to imagine. 

2. Kendall Langford. Still banged up a bit but a very solid player last year and likely will re-emerge this year when fully healthy. 

3. Frank Gore. I love the guy. But this is probably his last year. Still a quality running back. 

 

Undrafted Free Agents. 

1. Quan Bray

2. Edwin Jackson

3. Curt Maggitt

4. Josh Ferguson

5. Chester Rogers

6. TY McGill

 

Again, these free agents are significant improvement over prior efforts, and the UFAs represent great value outside the draft. 

 

That's 23 new players on the roster in the past 2 seasons. Many starting. 

I would argue that as the team matures, the quality of play will absolutely improve. This is a VERY YOUNG TEAM for the most part interspersed with some old timers. 

 

Add in another solid draft and getting a top quality pass rusher in free agency and this team has potential. Its just that the growing pains are rough. 

Grigson, I would argue, is doing his job the past two seasons. And doing it well. 

 

Pagano, on the other hand, is a really good guy..................and a lousy head coach. Show him the door at the end of the year. 

[Hoose]

Nobody will defend Grigson?? I still argue that he has turned his management of the team around the past two years. I know that the first three years were tough. But give credit where credit is due. The past two years have introduced some genuine talent. Two more years of solid drafts and clever free agent additions and this team is a contender. The thing this Board needs to accept is that this is a rebuild from the hot mess that was years one through three. I just preach patience with the talent. It is growing, but there is more work to be done. 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I think coaching is a much bigger issue than Grigson at this point, and I do agree with the fact that he's gotten a lot better, but the missteps in free agency in the 3 years prior still outweigh these past 2 drafts. Assuming he still has his job this offseason, he'll have to hit a homerun in this next draft just to break even. Considering that pass rush, our biggest need, is so glaring, and this draft is deep with talent in that area, it shouldn't be too hard to round out those positions on the roster.

[GoColts8818]

His drafts are getting better but the mistakes in the 2013 and 2014 draft and free agency classes are really showing up right now.  That's where the lack of talent comes from.  Still if Grigson can keep being solid in the draft like he has been the last couple of years and those players keep gaining experience I think they can over come the 2013 and 2014 drafts.

[Gavin]

Parry has been awful

[AZColt11]

I would concur with most of the original post.  His first draft was even decent with Luck and Hilton.  The problem, as has been pointed out, was the 2 years after where he got very little.  That set the team back at LEAST those 2 years.  The Richardson trade, which gave up a first-rounder also hurt BUT i almost don't blame him too much for that one as many thought it was good at the time, perhaps he gave up too high of a draft pick when he may have been had for a 2nd or 3rd rounder instead, not the trade itself.  That would be my argument.  His last couple of drafts HAVE been better.  But when you are comparing them to the awful 2013 and 2014 drafts it is hard to tell what good really is.  I think this past draft MAY have been his best work but it is way too early to tell yet.  And I still feel like he may be in a bit over his head frankly.

[ReMeDy]

You make a good point, TC, but to counter this entire topic, I have to ask why the Colts -- a team with an established history of winning -- went with a rookie GM. Surely there had to have been some takers for the GM job, especially knowing we would be acquiring Andrew Luck (or RGIII) in the draft!

 

I think Irsay wanted a yes-man, unlike Bill Polian. Either that or Irsay simply out-thought himself and tried to be too clever.

[Imrryr]

Coaching his way to and afc championship appearance lends Pagano some leeway and yes like you pointed out the last two years have been better I feel with a year or two of solid talent added well be back where the colts belong

[crazycolt1]

17 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

You make a good point, TC, but to counter this entire topic, I have to ask why the Colts -- a team with an established history of winning -- went with a rookie GM. Surely there had to have been some takers for the GM job, especially knowing we would be acquiring Andrew Luck (or RGIII) in the draft!

 

I feel like Irsay out-thought himself on this one. He thought himself clever on the Grigson signing, and we're paying for it.

It's pretty simple if you think about it.

Irsay didn't want to retread GMs like most teams in the past has. No matter your opinion Grigson hasn't done that bad of job. Injuries have not let us see the potential. It also takes time for linemen to play together and jel as a unit.

You mention a history of winning? The last time I looked the Colts have not had a losing season since Grigson has been here. As great as Polian was he took longer to start winning that Grigson has. Grigson was hired when this team was 2-14 and 39 million in cap room hades when the Polian smoked cleared.

It is way too early to know exactly how this is going to turn out. The knee jerk reactions that some want because of losing clouds the sight of the big picture.

Do I have a crystal ball? No. But neither does anyone else.

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's pretty simple if you think about it.

Irsay didn't want to retread GMs like most teams in the past has. No matter your opinion Grigson hasn't done that bad of job. Injuries have not let us see the potential. It also takes time for linemen to play together and jel as a unit.

You mention a history of winning? The last time I looked the Colts have not had a losing season since Grigson has been here. As great as Polian was he took longer to start winning that Grigson has. Grigson was hired when this team was 2-14 and 39 million in cap room hades when the Polian smoked cleared.

It is way too early to know exactly how this is going to turn out. The knee jerk reactions that some want because of losing clouds the sight of the big picture.

Do I have a crystal ball? No. But neither does anyone else.

I agree, I think Irsay wanted to bring in some new and fresh talent. Grigs was seen as an up and comin talent and was picked to rebuild a team and Chuck was supposed to be the hot coach coming up from a tough Ravens team with defense in mind. Having Andrew Luck with a tough defense was supposed to be what happened but it hasn't yet.

 

For all the Grigson bashing we have seen, he has had a great 1st draft and the last 2. He has had some nice pick ups in FA and he has had some ewwwwww but most of the FA picks were contract friendly for the team. The amount he gave up for the RB was too steep but that was his first bigtime deal and he got taken advantage of a little, he learned from that hopefully and quite honestly, Jim knew he would have growing pains as do all new GM's. Has he been perfect, no but I think he has learned a lot and hopefully is a skillful player from here on out.

 

As for Pagano, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but this team looks too undisciplined for me. Game plans are terrible and Pags looks lost in the limelight. I would say if we aren't in the hunt for the division at the end of the year, I would be satisfied if we found a new direction for HC but I won't be angry if we decide to go one more season and see if the draft gives Pagano a few more pieces for his version of defense, whatever that version is supposed to be.

[BOTT]

At this point you can't at really say much about any of the past two drafts...it's too early.  I can say drafting dorsett was insanely stupid.

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, Gavin said:

Parry has been awful

What are you smoking?

[IndyTrav]

Now if we could just get:

 

-Half an OL

-4 more DBs for depth

-An Entire LB core

-RBs 

-WRs

 

we could have a solid roster.....this should only take 2 more years if he nails ever pick....

[LockeDown]

If every draft nets us at least 1 really good Oline starter, then we are almost set there.  This past draft may have given us 2,   Possibly 3.  We are so young there, but once this line is established, we should quit being such an uneven offense.  We have to get to the point where Luck is seeing the D,  calling the right play and we can execute it.  Currently, we are just trying to survive.

 

[JPFolks]

7 hours ago, Hoose said:

Nobody will defend Grigson?? I still argue that he has turned his management of the team around the past two years. I know that the first three years were tough. But give credit where credit is due. The past two years have introduced some genuine talent. Two more years of solid drafts and clever free agent additions and this team is a contender. The thing this Board needs to accept is that this is a rebuild from the hot mess that was years one through three. I just preach patience with the talent. It is growing, but there is more work to be done. 

 

3 straight 11-5 years were a "hot mess" to you? Since then we're 9-11 while losing the division and missing the playoffs?  Sure, injuries etc. can always be an excuse, but I sure would trade another appearance this year in the AFC Championship game for what happened last year or appears to be waiting for us this year.  It all looks like regression.  Sure, he's added a lot of starters, but those collective starters are viewed as the worst lineup outside of Luck, Hilton and Davis in the league by a large number of people who know more than both of us about the NFL.  So starters who can't win don't inspire me to believe in huge improvements over past lineups.  I think sometimes we're too close to our own players to see how bad they really are, and I am guilty of that myself in some cases.  I think it was, however, clear to many of us who posted pre-draft, how desperately we need to upgrade not only the line (duh) but the Linebackers inside and out and the defensive backfield.  Signing on FA (who is still pretty questionable) seemed insane and once the predictable injury bug happened, we were in dire straights and that lack of depth likely handed us our 0-2 start.  Luck, with the terrible overall line play, couldn't overcome the high scores of our opponents and even when he did (Detroit) the defense gave it away in less than one minute.  

 

I think the info posted by the OP is interesting, but I think the conclusion doesn't match the actual results.  If we were a "hot mess" going 33-5 in the regular season and 3-3 in post season in those years, what is the word for now?  We still have ancient and ineffective vets on the team and aside from a couple young players, a lot of weak play from everyone not named Luck.  

[JPFolks]

29 minutes ago, csmopar said:

What are you smoking?

I think Parry has been solid, especially for a 5th rounder thrust into day one starting.  

[shakedownstreet]

i agree the talent level is improving

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

I think Parry has been solid, especially for a 5th rounder thrust into day one starting.  

I agree 

[pgt_rob]

But look at his 2014 draft class. We would be in better shape if they were still around.

[ColtJ82]

I'm no Grigson apologist, but it should be noted that we have changed our strategy. The original strategy was to try to compete for a quick Superbowl.....which set us back upon failure. Now we have changed the philosophy to build and develop younger talent. I'm sure Irsay was on board with the original strategy. 

 

Maybe Irsay is giving Grigson the opportunity to work the new strategy for a year or two before going a different direction.

[1959Colts]

It still comes down to getting the W

[PeterBowman]

Yes Grigson has improved tremendously the last couple years and that will pay dividends in the future. Too bad that 2013 draft was a big mud dump....but then again it was that way for most teams it seems too.

 

Also he's improved on the free agent signings.....now say what you will about who he's brought in over his tenure, but you can't deny that those deals were very team friendly and allowed the team to get out of them if they didn't work. Plus they're in VERY good cap shape for the future. At least they're not a dumpster fire like the Saints D AND in cap hell on top of it.

[lollygagger8]

I'll admit these last two drafts have been better than his previous two (2013 was a complete bust) but that was easy to improve on. 

 

Waiting so long to improve the O-Line is still one of his bigger blunders. 

 

[digroute88]

It's too early to tell if these guys will be good . 

[NorthernColt]

Grigson I am willing to give more time, because he has shown recently he changed his way and realizes the problems with this team. Pagano on the other hand there has been no change or progress. He needs to go.

[Colts_Fan12]

Please gtho with this crap. Stop grading this dirtbag only on drafts he has literally threw 100 million in cap in the trash he deserves fired for that alone not even bringing up trading a 1st for a RB or drafting Werner or his other picks that have been useless 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

27 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Please gtho with this crap. Stop grading this dirtbag only on drafts he has literally threw 100 million in cap in the trash he deserves fired for that alone not even bringing up trading a 1st for a RB or drafting Werner or his other picks that have been useless 

 

Everyone agrees that he screwed the pooch with '13 draft, as well as '13 and '14 free agency. But he was already judged on those mistakes by Irsay, and extended in good faith that he had gotten over the learning curve. Irsay's not gonna fire the guy after 2 solid draft classes just because you're still mad about the Richardson trade.

[Colts_Fan12]

6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Everyone agrees that he screwed the pooch with '13 draft, as well as '13 and '14 free agency. But he was already judged on those mistakes by Irsay, and extended in good faith that he had gotten over the learning curve. Irsay's not gonna fire the guy after 2 solid draft classes just because you're still mad about the Richardson trade.

Your right he hit a home run this offseason forgive me 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Your right he hit a home run this offseason forgive me 

 

What moves would you have preferred to see him make this past offseason?

[Flash]

4 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

What moves would you have preferred to see him make this past offseason?

I personally would've like for Grigson to go after Casey Hayward instead of Patrick Robinson. 

 

And I would've like for Grigson to fight harder to retain Freeman.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

12 minutes ago, Flash said:

I personally would've like for Grigson to go after Casey Hayward instead of Patrick Robinson. 

 

And I would've like for Grigson to fight harder to retain Freeman.

 

He offered Freeman pretty much the same deal Chicago did, and he chose Chicago. 3years/$12mil is a pretty decent offer for a 30 year old LB. I'm not sure how comfortable I would've been had he offered him anything more than that. Sure in hindsight, it'd be nice to have Freeman right now, but at the same time, he's been pretty up and down so far this year with the Bears, and through 4 games he has zero sacks. If the Colts would've offered him $5mil a year, and he stayed and had zero sacks through 4 games, EVERYONE would be saying that Grigson should've let him walk.

 

As far as Robinson goes, he's been meh so far, but he's also missed 2 games with a concussion. I still don't know if he was a good signing or not, but I know everyone seemed pretty happy with it when it happened.

[digroute88]

I think we should have kept Jason Spriggs instead of trading the pick.

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Please gtho with this crap. Stop grading this dirtbag only on drafts he has literally threw 100 million in cap in the trash he deserves fired for that alone not even bringing up trading a 1st for a RB or drafting Werner or his other picks that have been useless 

I hate Grigson but I don't fault him for the Trent trade.

 

We just lost Vick Ballard, our first round picks at the time were usually in the mid 20's, which after you get past the first three picks in the draft the value drops exponentially. Trent had a solid year in CLEVELAND with WEEDEN behind center. Everyone know he was getting the ball and he still performed well. Now he wouldn't have to carry the offense in Indy like he did in Cleveland. Try looking at it from where Grigson was instead of where we are now. 

[Colts_Fan12]

39 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

What moves would you have preferred to see him make this past offseason?

Hell idk maybe any of the great young FA that were avaliable he has literally ignored them every off season he signs fossils and hopes to be a SB champ

[Colts_Fan12]

5 minutes ago, bababooey said:

I hate Grigson but I don't fault him for the Trent trade.

 

We just lost Vick Ballard, our first round picks at the time were usually in the mid 20's, which after you get past the first three picks in the draft the value drops exponentially. Trent had a solid year in CLEVELAND with WEEDEN behind center. Everyone know he was getting the ball and he still performed well. Now he wouldn't have to carry the offense in Indy like he did in Cleveland. Try looking at it from where Grigson was instead of where we are now. 

His year wasn't that great in Cleveland plus in today's nfl RB are not worth that much never worth a 1st imo 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

11 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

His year wasn't that great in Cleveland

 

He had over 1300 all-purpose yards and 12TDs his rookie year in Cleveland. What are you talking about?

[bababooey]

14 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

His year wasn't that great in Cleveland plus in today's nfl RB are not worth that much never worth a 1st imo 

 

Just now, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He had over 1300 all-purpose yards and 12TDs his rookie year in Cleveland. What are you talking about?

 

He had a pretty good rookie year when everybody still knew he'd be getting the ball. And you are talking about TODAY's NFL in your opinion, not 2013's NFL, when we were a year removed from him being selected 3rd overall. His failure in Indy is the reason today's NFL avoids RBs early with the exception of Elliot.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

29 minutes ago, bababooey said:

He had a pretty good rookie year when everybody still knew he'd be getting the ball. And you are talking about TODAY's NFL in your opinion, not 2013's NFL, when we were a year removed from him being selected 3rd overall. His failure in Indy is the reason today's NFL avoids RBs early with the exception of Elliot.

 

I realize all of that. But when people say "he wasn't that good the one year he played in Cleveland," it's just 100% completely false.

[coach kline]

Mediocre picks aren't cutting it. Couple picks good but overall non are impact players.

[bababooey]

9 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I realize all of that. But when people say "he wasn't that good the one year he played in Cleveland," it's just 100% completely false.

Oh yea I was agreeing with you 100% sorry if it came off different.