How optimistic are you about Grigson/Pagano going forward?

[jbaron04]

After irsay set Grigson straight I think we will win 11+ games 

 

[Superman]

I'm hopeful. I think the changes on the coaching staff can be significant, and I think Grigson can draft better than he did in 2013 and 2014.

 

I'll save my optimism, though. I think there were too many unsuccessful decisions over the last two years. The staff in general will have to prove that they are capable.

[southwest1]

28 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

Exactly. Agreed 100%. Everyone knows where I stand. I'm about as optimistic as it gets toward most things. Some say I'm too naive. Maybe. At least I go to sleep at night with a notion, no matter how bad things get, there's a focal point of light on the other side of the fence. An aspect which has been with me since I was 20. 

 

Anyway, about the Colts. Fanatic is described in many ways. I've always sided on the good things the team has done in the past & present. That leaves the future. So why would I differ? The best thing this franchise has done since last season was to hire a new blooded position coaching staff across the board, and keep Chuck Pagano in the wake of it. Chuck knows these guys. Knows their backgrounds & capabilities. 

 

To me, this franchise has chosen a path of absolute cohesion on every level. I think Irsay has made that clear enough. So yes, I'm very optimistic about our future. Whether that's drafts and/or free agents plus all other variables that go into the mix.

That's a good way to look at. I do like Chuck & you're probably right if anybody knows what men on this roster can & can't do it's him. I know I always say this: I just wanna beat NE & Pittsburgh to demonstrate that this team is moving in the right direction since those squads are almost always in the Playoffs & making a deep run. 

 

I just grow tired of winning our division & then getting pulverized by either Foxboro or Pittsburgh's potent offense or maybe I'm just weary of lopsided massacres by those AFC adversaries in crunch time. I know; I know be patient. 

 

Anyway, I respect your upbeat outlook CR. Thanks. 

[BOTT]

I have little confidence in Grigson.....especially in free agency.

 

i don't think much of Chuck, but he has surrounded himself with good veteran  coaching on the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, his new DC in unproven and the talent is thin, so that is a wait and see.

 

 This team can and will do well under Chuck, but if your goal is to win multiple championship I find it hard to believe Chuck is the guy.

[CheezyColt]

I'm glad we kept Chuck this year. I don't think there was anyone out there that I felt was THE guy. Maybe Hue Jackson, but I wasn't pounding the table for him. That being said, I'm not sure Chuck is a championship coach. The players love him and everything, but I'm not sure if that's enough. Now if Jim Harbaugh gets bored at Michigan in the next 2 or 3 years and we still haven't made a Superbowl... we'd be in a good position to transition then...

[jim scheurich]

supposedly their contracts are more closely tied to each others performances. My guess is if one of the goes they both go. Hopefully that's not the case. Pagano has the respect of the team, had some bad decisions this past year, but not usual conditions. Grigson, I think he needs to talk to his coaches before making the decisions. Doesn't seem like that has been the case in the past.

[throwing BBZ]

10 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I am very optimistic going forward.  They have no choice but to work together.  Like I have said before Grigson owes his new contract to Chuck.  Chuck wanted him back.  Chuck already has put his stamp on the coaching staff and I believe he will have the biggest input on this draft .  I believe if there is a difference of opinion on who to pick, Ryan will yield to Chuck, he owes him.  Chuck will be given a chance to pick the players he wants and who to play going forward. That's the way it should be.  I am very excited about the upcoming year and the return of a healthy Luck.

 

 You do understand a new GM would have wanted to replace Chuck.
  Chuck is a better Leader than a coach IMO.
 And Grigson i think has been Mentored to some poor decisions.
 

[GwinnettColt]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

 

 

I just grow tired of winning our division & then getting pulverized by either Foxboro or Pittsburgh's potent offense or maybe I'm just weary of lopsided massacres by those AFC adversaries in crunch time. I know; I know be patient. 

 

 

 

I feel exactly the same way.  I'm impatient, too.  I probably fall into the Grigson (or Polian, depending on the year), Do something!   I feel like we get a lot of mediocre FA's and pay way too much for them.  That, or we draft a good player in a position but we have gaping holes elsewhere.  

 

I love the Colts, but the last few years playing Pittsburgh or NE have been terrible (last year's NE game wasn't too bad-except for the bungled trick play).  

 

It seems sometimes that they talk a big game about changing up but when the season starts, it's same-old-same-old.    Hopefully this year will be different.  We can't waste Luck's years here.  

[jim scheurich]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

I'm hopeful. I think the changes on the coaching staff can be significant, and I think Grigson can draft better than he did in 2013 and 2014.

 

I'll save my optimism, though. I think there were too many unsuccessful decisions over the last two years. The staff in general will have to prove that they are capable.

U and I don't agree a lot, but on this we do.

[Gavin]

Taking the wait and see approach. I still have concerns

[CoachLite]

Interesting. I thought Pagano is, was, and will continue to be a bigger problem than Grigson, who we all know is as skilled a GM as Matt Millen ever was. And I really like Matt Millen, personally.Time will tell if I'm right. Put me in the not-optimistic-at-all group.

[oldunclemark]

22 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Do you think they'll fix their mistakes, and take the colts into the right direction?

To me,. its not about them.

We have a playoff team if Andrew is healthy...we need O-line help and its coming in the raft and maybe elsewhere//

 

Our coaches and office folks were good enough for 3 years..and they will be again.

We all know why we were 8-8 last year......I'm very optimistic....

 

[JPFolks]

7 hours ago, southwest1 said:

That's a good way to look at. I do like Chuck & you're probably right if anybody knows what men on this roster can & can't do it's him. I know I always say this: I just wanna beat NE & Pittsburgh to demonstrate that this team is moving in the right direction since those squads are almost always in the Playoffs & making a deep run. 

 

I just grow tired of winning our division & then getting pulverized by either Foxboro or Pittsburgh's potent offense or maybe I'm just weary of lopsided massacres by those AFC adversaries in crunch time. I know; I know be patient. 

 

Anyway, I respect your upbeat outlook CR. Thanks. 

We don't play New England unless we meet in the playoffs.  We play Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh, and we have to play playoff quality teams in Green Bay, Minnesota, Kansas City, Oakland, Denver, NY Jets and our much improved division where I would be thrilled if we could win 4 of 6 next year with the improvements to Houston and Jacksonville.  I could see us playing very well and still fighting hard for a low seed playoff berth.  No one knows who will be healthy and who won't which always matters, but if all teams were healthy, 10-6 could be a ceiling for our team playing very well and 9-7 winning the division with a 4th seed might be what we settle for optimistically.  There's been an arms race on many of the teams we're playing this year, and I doubt we'll have many clear cut wins we can circle beyond TN. Even San Diego historically has had our number, those personnel has changed since our last game against them, which for those who remember was perhaps the most frustrating loss we've had since Luck has been here as we couldn't move the ball all day.  We just happen to be in a combination schedule wise of a lot of vastly improving teams and some solid top notch teams who haven't lost a step from last year.  I don't see a 13-3 or better season for at least 2-3 more years. 

[ColtRider]

7 hours ago, Superman said:

I'm hopeful. I think the changes on the coaching staff can be significant, and I think Grigson can draft better than he did in 2013 and 2014.

 

I'll save my optimism, though. I think there were too many unsuccessful decisions over the last two years. The staff in general will have to prove that they are capable.

 

Therein lies the crux of the entire argument concerning the direction of this team.

[richard pallo]

12 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 You do understand a new GM would have wanted to replace Chuck.
  Chuck is a better Leader than a coach IMO.
 And Grigson i think has been Mentored to some poor decisions.
 

Yes I do, a new GM would have replaced Chuck.  But, the fact that Irsay decided to keep both after Chuck asked for Grigson says a lot.  Chuck thought he could work with Ryan and told Irsay as much. Chuck and Irsay both must think highly of Ryan's abilities as GM.  I think they just needed to get a clearer understanding of each others  responsibilities.  Growing pains for both that showed up under adversity.  They both should feel good about an 8 and 8 season after all the problems of last year.  I never expected it.  Going forward I have all the confidence they can build a great team together.  

[Everyone]

[Mameluc]

21 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Sure, but what about the impact of the free agents those teams have signed, and the trades they made?  Seattle traded for Marshawn Lynch.  We traded for someone we thought was going to be the next Marshawn Lynch and ended up being a waste of a roster spot.  The Broncos signed free agents like DeMarcus Ware and Emmanuel Sanders.  We signed free agents like Trent Cole and Andre Johnson.  Don't get me wrong, I think Grigson has made a handful of good moves, but his overall body of work isn't that great, in my opinion.

Yea but seahawks also traded for harvin and jimmy graham which has meant in no first roundres on 3 years and i think thye wont this year either? Dont get me wrong the Richardson trade was a fiasco but it didnt burn us the way those 2 have burned seahawks.

 

He also traded for vontae so i think it is comparable. We also signed a few good players like Adams, Langford, Gore and Freeman. I mean he has done some #BAD signings but none hurted us on the long term.

I dont think he is the best Gm but i thnk people is just focusing on the bad things and only remembering the good signing of others GM's making it look so much better than us and its hurting the perception of RG the GM.

 

I just dont agree with "no hope in Gm and yes on pagano". I think RG has done more things than pagano when the team has looked 4 timnes(maybe more)  per season where we get so beaten and team looks so unprepared, when we have plays like the ST fiasco vs NE and i dont know kinda unprepared team we have seen.

 

 

I also dont like his kinda oldschool mentality of stop the run, runt he football but I understand thats more of thing with me and i cant prove it doesnt work.

[21isSuperman]

52 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

Yea but seahawks also traded for harvin and jimmy graham which has meant in no first roundres on 3 years and i think thye wont this year either? Dont get me wrong the Richardson trade was a fiasco but it didnt burn us the way those 2 have burned seahawks.

 

He also traded for vontae so i think it is comparable. We also signed a few good players like Adams, Langford, Gore and Freeman. I mean he has done some #BAD signings but none hurted us on the long term.

I dont think he is the best Gm but i thnk people is just focusing on the bad things and only remembering the good signing of others GM's making it look so much better than us and its hurting the perception of RG the GM.

 

I just dont agree with "no hope in Gm and yes on pagano". I think RG has done more things than pagano when the team has looked 4 timnes(maybe more)  per season where we get so beaten and team looks so unprepared, when we have plays like the ST fiasco vs NE and i dont know kinda unprepared team we have seen.

 

 

I also dont like his kinda oldschool mentality of stop the run, runt he football but I understand thats more of thing with me and i cant prove it doesnt work.

I personally believe the reports that Grigson was meddling into Pagano's affairs.  Just a gut feeling.  That's why I have more confidence in Pagano.  I think the talk between Grigson, Irsay, and Pagano before the press conference announcing their return was a sign that Pagano was being given more freedom to do what he wants without Grigson interfering.  I think that may have also been a reason why we saw so many changes in the coaching staff.  The guys we had before may have been consensus between Grigson and Pagano, but now it's more guys Pagano wants and Grigson will focus on bringing in talent.  Pagano will now be able to run his defense the way he wants to with Mochacinno.

 

As for Grigson and his good moves vs. his duds, I will give him more of a pass when he establishes himself with more good moves.  He's essentially wasted every first round pick he's had (Luck doesn't really count since that was a no-brainer, and I'm not going to judge Dorsett quite yet, but Richardson and Werner were absolute duds).  Plus, his moves in free agency haven't been that great.  He's had some very good signings (Langford, Jerrell Freeman, Mike Adams), but his duds (Trent Cole, Andre Johnson, Frank Gore, Gosder Cherilus, LaRon Landry, Ricky Jean-Francois) outweigh his positives.

 

Long story short: Grigson has made too many mistakes for me to have much confidence in him.  I don't think Pagano is an elite head coach, and I don't know if he's the guy to elevate us to the next level, but I have more confident in him than I do Grigson.

[Mameluc]

29 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I personally believe the reports that Grigson was meddling into Pagano's affairs.  Just a gut feeling.  That's why I have more confidence in Pagano.  I think the talk between Grigson, Irsay, and Pagano before the press conference announcing their return was a sign that Pagano was being given more freedom to do what he wants without Grigson interfering.  I think that may have also been a reason why we saw so many changes in the coaching staff.  The guys we had before may have been consensus between Grigson and Pagano, but now it's more guys Pagano wants and Grigson will focus on bringing in talent.  Pagano will now be able to run his defense the way he wants to with Mochacinno.

 

As for Grigson and his good moves vs. his duds, I will give him more of a pass when he establishes himself with more good moves.  He's essentially wasted every first round pick he's had (Luck doesn't really count since that was a no-brainer, and I'm not going to judge Dorsett quite yet, but Richardson and Werner were absolute duds).  Plus, his moves in free agency haven't been that great.  He's had some very good signings (Langford, Jerrell Freeman, Mike Adams), but his duds (Trent Cole, Andre Johnson, Frank Gore, Gosder Cherilus, LaRon Landry, Ricky Jean-Francois) outweigh his positives.

 

Long story short: Grigson has made too many mistakes for me to have much confidence in him.  I don't think Pagano is an elite head coach, and I don't know if he's the guy to elevate us to the next level, but I have more confident in him than I do Grigson.

I do agree with the talks being about giving Pagano more autonomy and like you, i think all this coaches changes have Pagano print.

 

I disagree with Cherilus and Frank Gore being duds. I htink frank is fine and cherilus was ifne untl injuries but you cant predict that. I'm meh on RJF, he wasnt like all good but he was a good stop gap with no cap issues at all.

 

As for meddling Grigson-pagano etc. I do think it happened and i dont like it but i have to kinda consider what all those meddling resulted in. I think those 2 feud over Chapman/the other huge dude which i forgot his name being phased out / cut and moving to more of a 1 gap team and having Anderson/Parry start. In hindsight, it was the right move.

I think Grigson also wanted to start giving reps to other WR's instead of wayne and i dont think it was a bad move either. So maybe he felt he needed to meddle because Pagano wasnt moving from players out of respect/faith/relationship with those guys. I kind see why he might have gotten kinda desperate.

 

of course this is all speculative, just as much as what you mentoined regarding the coaches changes being a sign of empowerment to pagano from irsay.

[21isSuperman]

50 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

I do agree with the talks being about giving Pagano more autonomy and like you, i think all this coaches changes have Pagano print.

 

I disagree with Cherilus and Frank Gore being duds. I htink frank is fine and cherilus was ifne untl injuries but you cant predict that. I'm meh on RJF, he wasnt like all good but he was a good stop gap with no cap issues at all.

 

As for meddling Grigson-pagano etc. I do think it happened and i dont like it but i have to kinda consider what all those meddling resulted in. I think those 2 feud over Chapman/the other huge dude which i forgot his name being phased out / cut and moving to more of a 1 gap team and having Anderson/Parry start. In hindsight, it was the right move.

I think Grigson also wanted to start giving reps to other WR's instead of wayne and i dont think it was a bad move either. So maybe he felt he needed to meddle because Pagano wasnt moving from players out of respect/faith/relationship with those guys. I kind see why he might have gotten kinda desperate.

 

of course this is all speculative, just as much as what you mentoined regarding the coaches changes being a sign of empowerment to pagano from irsay.

Gore was very underwhelming, in my opinion.  He was decent, but that's not good enough.  3.6 yards per carry, fumbled multiple times near the goal line, simply not good enough for $4 mil a year.  Cherilus was given the biggest contract in NFL history for a right tackle, despite having chronic knee issues dating back to his time in Detroit.  Grigson didn't do his homework looking into his injury history, it seems.  Bottom line: Grigson hasn't made enough good moves to exonerate his numerous bad moves

[King Colt]

The Colts have been successful with Pagano so how does one argue with success. The insane idea of firing someone because they did not get to the SB is nothing more than a sign of ignorance. If it is a good idea then Belichick should be fired the fist time he does not repeat every year. Look at Kubiak's Broncos. He arrives they get a SB trophy and now does anyone believe they are going to do it again this coming season?. Atlanta stuck with their coach for a long time then switched and nothing changed. Like him or not a coach should be judged on the win-loss numbers. He has four years ahead of him and if  they continue to get to the playoffs every year with very good seasons how do they get rid of him if the lose a SB? Keep him...period.

[Valpo2004]

I have very little confidence left in Grigson.  Outside of Luck and Dorsette (who the jury is still out on.) his first round picks have all been busts.  Most of his free agents signings have been busts.

 

Those that have not have been exceptions to the rule.  

[Mameluc]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Gore was very underwhelming, in my opinion.  He was decent, but that's not good enough.  3.6 yards per carry, fumbled multiple times near the goal line, simply not good enough for $4 mil a year.  Cherilus was given the biggest contract in NFL history for a right tackle, despite having chronic knee issues dating back to his time in Detroit.  Grigson didn't do his homework looking into his injury history, it seems.  Bottom line: Grigson hasn't made enough good moves to exonerate his numerous bad moves

For me the bottom line is that trading for vontae, picking Allen/TY/Anderson/Mewhort/Moncrief/Anderson/Parry/etc and signing Langford/Adams/Freeman/ for me outweight the TRich trade / Cole / Cherilus / HOlmes / AJ etc in part because none of those guys are hindering us with cap issues. Also because i like better our drafted guys.

bottom line, we agree to disagree.

[BOTT]

4 hours ago, King Colt said:

The Colts have been successful with Pagano so how does one argue with success. The insane idea of firing someone because they did not get to the SB is nothing more than a sign of ignorance. If it is a good idea then Belichick should be fired the fist time he does not repeat every year. Look at Kubiak's Broncos. He arrives they get a SB trophy and now does anyone believe they are going to do it again this coming season?. Atlanta stuck with their coach for a long time then switched and nothing changed. Like him or not a coach should be judged on the win-loss numbers. He has four years ahead of him and if  they continue to get to the playoffs every year with very good seasons how do they get rid of him if the lose a SB? Keep him...period.

Thinking that people wanted Pagano fired for not making the super bowl is ignorance.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 3/21/2016 at 8:46 AM, Patrick Miller said:

I have zero optimism for grigson,pagano or luck. At least i wont be getting my hopes up this year. When we had peyton I always thought we had a chance.....

 

 

 

Colts Fans ? 

 

3   11-5 seasons to start his career in case you missed it ..

 

  You must not realize Luck has started his Colts career doing better than 18 something anyone who has watched the Colts should realize . Unfortunately players get hurt .

 

 zero optimism for LUCK   Means what for you ?  Why would you watch ? So IMO your a 18 Bronco fan coming in to dog 12 that is the only way your post  makes sense to me maybe you should watch some of 12's games enlighten yourself maybe you might learn something .

[Patagonia Chris]

About as optimistic as I am for the 2016 presidential election.

[Carlos Danger]

20 minutes ago, Pagano's Realtor said:

About as optimistic as I am for the 2016 presidential election.

By this, I assume you mean "Very!"

 

We are talking about the election for the president of the "Hair Club for Men," right?.. because I'm also a client.

[Patrick Miller]

1 hour ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

 

 

Colts Fans ? 

 

3   11-5 seasons to start his career in case you missed it ..

 

  You must not realize Luck has started his Colts career doing better than 18 something anyone who has watched the Colts should realize . Unfortunately players get hurt .

 

 zero optimism for LUCK   Means what for you ?  Why would you watch ? So IMO your a 18 Bronco fan coming in to dog 12 that is the only way your post  makes sense to me maybe you should watch some of 12's games enlighten yourself maybe you might learn something .

I've watched 12s games and i think he makes a lot of bonehead plays/interceptions. A lot of the holes the Colts dug themselves into was primarily because of him. I hope he starts making Better decisions.

[superrep1967]

On 3/21/2016 at 11:30 PM, RockThatBlue said:

Do you think they'll fix their mistakes, and take the colts into the right direction?

I do not I think they both should have been fired.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

21 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

I've watched 12s games and i think he makes a lot of bonehead plays/interceptions. A lot of the holes the Colts dug themselves into was primarily because of him. I hope he starts making Better decisions.

 

I agree 12 needs to make better decisions & he will , 12 & 18 are alike in many ways always expecting more of themselves .

 

 And those holes you rightfully attribute to 12 you got to admit he also is responsible for making a lot of good decisions that dug us out  at the end of the day,3  years of solid seasons with the playoffs going further each year till injury , 1 of those bonehead plays you were referring did end year 4 prematurely but in 12's defense 18 at times tried to do to much it did'nt always work .

 

We IMO with a new Offensive Coach we will take that next step 12 will be eager to play just fix his O-line & beef up that D & these Colts will be back in the saddle buckle up this should be fun .

 

 

 

[King Colt]

If, I said "IF' Pagano had an OL is there anyone that believes we would have not at least been in a SB  by now? The greatest horse to ever run had to have a great trainer.

[theanarchist]

On 3/21/2016 at 10:40 PM, 21isSuperman said:

I'm have almost no confidence in Grigson, but I think Pagano will rebound from last year's poor performance.

I'm in the same camp as you. I have no confidence in this guy now. I'll wait for the draft, hopefully he doesn't affirm my opinion. As far as Pags goes, I think he's a players coach. Good motivator. He lacks some in game management skills but overall I think he's a good coach.