Texas A&M has sued the Indianapolis Colts for unauthorized use to its 12th Man trademarks. (Merge)

mvbighead · November 13, 2015

Not going to derail the thread but all the stupid crap going on right now. The kid who's crying about white privelage while his dad just made 8.4 million dollars last year. Or now holding a unity meeting but no whites aloud.

You do realize that having a father who makes millions per year doesn't equate to equality. I am quite sure that what that individual was referring to had less to do with money and more to do with treatment. It's cute how people think that just because someone comes from wealth they're not dealing with some form of mistreatment.

NFLfan · November 13, 2015

You do realize that having a father who makes millions per year doesn't equate to equality. I am quite sure that what that individual was referring to had less to do with money and more to do with treatment. It's cute how people think that just because someone comes from wealth they're not dealing with some form of mistreatment.

No, unfortunately he/she does not realize that and does not realize that it also has nothing to do with this particular lawsuit. He/she was trying to derail the thread.

To some of the other posters, Texas A&M has loads of money (oil, rich alums). They are not suing because they need money.

lollygagger8 · November 13, 2015

ColtRider · November 13, 2015

Welcome to America.
I forget who, but the phrase 'three peae' is also trademarked.
Never mind. Just looked it up. Pat Riley registered it.

This ain't the America I grew up in. Not even close.

ricker182 · November 13, 2015

"On November 12, 2015, Texas A&M filed suit against the Indianapolis Colts after repeated cease and desist requests were ignored by the NFL club."
"Texas A&M University applied on December 26, 1989, for trademark U.S. Ser. No. 74013898 related to usage of the term. The United States Patent and Trademark Office issued the "trademark registration" September 4, 1990, to Texas A&M. Four additional Trademark claims related to the "12th Man" term were also filed and granted at later dates by Texas A&M University (See U.S. Ser. Nos. 74560726, 76671314, 85977835 and 85851199), the first three of which have achieved Incontestable Status as a result of its section 15 affidavit with the Patent and Trademark Office"
12TH MAN

The Colts use "The 12th Man" in that advert.

Not that it matters. This is chump change.

ColtStronger · November 13, 2015

Well, sad to say, you look at someone wrong, you must be dissin' them. You get shot, and robbed.
Well, at least in Chicago you do.

Don't get me started on guns, but perhaps your just not having a good day and make eye contact that's not having a good day. Sometimes that's all it takes. It is sad to say...

ColtStronger · November 13, 2015

We should make a law against being politically correct....anyone found guilty of being politically correct should be subject to a hefty fine. Think of all the dollars we could get for useful projects like infrastructure.

I know a pretty good lawyer, I'll see what he can draw up lol You do have a point though! People need to quit worrying about the little things, but in the same sense rules are rules. If we didn't have them, this world would be more chaotic than it already is... YIKES, scary thought!!

buccolts · November 13, 2015

This ain't the America I grew up in. Not even close.

Same here, and it's a shame.

Cynjin · November 13, 2015

This ain't the America I grew up in. Not even close.

It's cases like this that give lawyers the crappy image that they have.

OffensivelyPC · November 13, 2015

Pretty recent use honestly, and it's surprising that the marketing department could've been so careless. What I'm curious about is whether A&M sent a cease and desist letter, or if they just lawyered up and filed a suit right away.

Apparently TA&M have been trying ot contact the Colts since 2006 about the use of the 12th man; at least that's what I thought I heard on Mike and Mike.

ColtRider · November 13, 2015

Texas A&M, a college of higher learning? With this ridiculous stuff? Really? Well, partially correct. They've figured out how corporate America really works. Money! It's sad, though. You would think that their training for young officers in the Army would trend to a much higher value system than raking/bloodsucking from anyone who comes remotely close to copyright infringement, of all things.

Hey, Texas A&M, get a grip! And leave the 12th Man alone! (you'd think they invented it or something : WRONG!)

jet1968 · November 13, 2015

I think I want to trademark the letters A,B,C. That way if anyone uses them in words, sentences, phrases, or just individually I can sue whomever. Over course I will be discretionary when I sue.

I am certain Texas A&M wasn't the first place 12th man was ever used. If anything my guess is at some point they, Texas A&M, copied it from a phrase that someone else used in conversation. Maybe even one of their own fans. Did they form a committee to make up these words? Were these words actual words before Texas A&M ever came about? Why aren't they suing every single individual that has ever used that phrase? If anybody is sued for this "plagiarism" it should be them.

Maybe someone should trademark the colors maroon and white for uniforms and then sue them.

ColtRider · November 13, 2015

I think I want to trademark the letters A,B,C. That way if anyone uses them in words, sentences, phrases, or just individually I can sue whomever. Over course I will be discretionary when I sue.
I am certain Texas A&M wasn't the first place 12th man was ever used. If anything my guess is at some point they, Texas A&M, copied it from a phrase that someone else used in conversation. Maybe even one of their own fans. Did they form a committee to make up these words? Were these words actual words before Texas A&M ever came about? Why aren't they suing every single individual that has ever used that phrase? If anybody is sued for this "plagiarism" it should be them.
Maybe someone should trademark the colors maroon and white for uniforms and then sue them.

I heard this phrase waaaaay back in the LATE '60s! No, they didn't come up with this first. They just decided they could make money on copyright infringement by applying to the government, and then own it. They were eventually right. Pathetic, if you ask me.

Detectacon · November 13, 2015

Wonder how much Jimmy has to open up his wallet

They just watched him spend 2.5 Million on a Beatles drum....

Malakai432 · November 13, 2015

Easy fix, just change it to the 12th Woman

Restored · November 13, 2015

Easy fix, just change it to the 12th Woman

This.

/thread

jet1968 · November 13, 2015

just another ludicrous law suit. Lets hope a judge a legal brain throws this out

It will probably be some judge from Texas. I travel in Texas a lot and I can say without a doubt that "common sense isn't so common" when it comes to judicial matters. Look at their ex governor, he is dumber then a brick.

bababooey · November 13, 2015

It's a shameful and embarrassing to allow trademarking of simple words.

The Happy Birthday song was owned my Warner since 1935 until a judge determine it was public domain just last month.

bababooey · November 13, 2015

This ain't the America I grew up in. Not even close.

Some things are better - there is a new Star Wars movie out next month.

bababooey · November 13, 2015

I heard this phrase waaaaay back in the LATE '60s! No, they didn't come up with this first. They just decided they could make money on copyright infringement by applying to the government, and then own it. They were eventually right. Pathetic, if you ask me.

Basically they were being patent trolls but since the government was dumb enough to allow it kudos to them.

NewEra · November 13, 2015

You do realize that having a father who makes millions per year doesn't equate to equality. I am quite sure that what that individual was referring to had less to do with money and more to do with treatment. It's cute how people think that just because someone comes from wealth they're not dealing with some form of mistreatment.

Yeah, I'm calling nonsense.

Valpo2004 · November 13, 2015

Maybe I missed something here, didn't read the whole thread. . . But doesn't every team use the whole "12th man" thing?

The seahawks have a freaking flag for it.

ColtRider · November 13, 2015

Some things are better - there is a new Star Wars movie out next month.

Well, yeah, if you want to look at from the perspective of entertainment. Hey, if you get some time, go read the entire Patriot Act. It'll take some time, and it'll scare the hell out of you. That's just for starters. Come back and I'll give you some more interesting reads.

jvan1973 · November 13, 2015

Maybe I missed something here, didn't read the whole thread. . . But doesn't every team use the whole "12th man" thing?
The seahawks have a freaking flag for it.

The Seahawks pay a&m to use it

ColtsBlueFL · November 13, 2015

The Colts use "The 12th Man" in that advert.
Not that it matters. This is chump change.

I don't think putting 'The' (or Our, or Loudest, or any adjective) in front of it makes it OK. Also, Seattle settled out of court for 'chump change' and had to stop doing a lot of things they were doing. If it goes through the courts to conclusion, it could become very expensive for the Colts. They should agree and settle too. A&M only wants to protect their own brand, and continue to make profits from their own marketing and merchandising. Not on windfalls from lawsuits. But they will sue (over 550 infrimgements to date) to protect that ability. Aggies fight song even contains it in verses.

The Seahawks agreement was from 2006-2011, then renewed another 5 years. They are now trademarking their own variations of 12 themselves. I think they are now the 12s. The Bills are the only officially licensed NFL team allowed to use 12th man. We will settle out of court to some conclusion fairly soon, I believe.

ColtsBlueFL · November 13, 2015

Maybe I missed something here, didn't read the whole thread. . . But doesn't every team use the whole "12th man" thing?

The seahawks have a freaking flag for it.

They settled with A&M on two 5 years deals. Theirs expires in 2016, and I think Seattle is moving away from 12th man to 12s.

HOZER · November 13, 2015

12th hombre

bababooey · November 13, 2015

Well, yeah, if you want to look at from the perspective of entertainment. Hey, if you get some time, go read the entire Patriot Act. It'll take some time, and it'll scare the hell out of you. That's just for starters. Come back and I'll give you some more interesting reads.

Oh yea - and you have college students saying the 1% should pay all their tuitions and the entire student loan debt and $15 for an on campus job. I'm glad I'm not in college anymore.

ColtRider · November 13, 2015

Oh yea - and you have college students saying the 1% should pay all their tuitions and the entire student loan debt and $15 for an on campus job. I'm glad I'm not in college anymore.

Not to get too political here, it's just the rights of private citizens of this country have suffered serious damage since 9/11. Some of it is justified, however, the majority is not IMO. Getting back to your 1%, why don't we just make them pay $10 for a loaf of bread and just continue on with that nonsense. That's my point. Anyway, let's not get waaaay off track here.

pgt_rob · November 13, 2015

Pretty recent use honestly, and it's surprising that the marketing department could've been so careless. What I'm curious about is whether A&M sent a cease and desist letter, or if they just lawyered up and filed a suit right away.

Colts probably firing their Graphic Designers as we speak. I should apply for the opening spot. lol

rockywoj · November 13, 2015

Trademarking a generic expression like 12th Man in the context of fans being the 12th man on a football field, is ludicrous. It's a term that has been used for as long as I have been watching football, about 48 years.

Steamboat_Shaun · November 13, 2015

Colts probably firing their Graphic Designers as we speak. I should apply for the opening spot. lol

Well someone in marketing provided that text, which means someone they answer to approved it, then the designer just made it look nice. Can't hurt to shoot your resume over to the HR department though!

rockywoj · November 13, 2015

Looking at the original registration, how is the Colts use a violation of the expressed use of their TM for 1. Jewellry, 2. Entertainment Services, namely organizing and conducting intercollegiate sporting events.

Was there a subsequent modification of the uses the TM applies to? If not, the Colts use was not for either uses.

Reading through all the documents, it seems to me, as a "layman", the TM relates to all activities related to intercollegiate sporting events, and all subsequent merchandising for said intercollegiate sporting events. Ergo, the TM ought not to extend to the Colts' use of the generic sporting term "12th man".

Jim H. · November 13, 2015

A&M should be sued for the 'Johnny Football' soap opera.

Yehoodi · November 13, 2015

Too bad that Texas A&M is suing the colts. But here are a few points in regards to the case.

First, the fan based has referred to itself as the 12th man for nearly a century, starting in the early 1920s. Btw that is long before anyone on here wants to reference as "but I have heard it since xx year, what is the problem?" the usage predates anyone on here by 50 years at least. As for timing of trademarks rights they vest with usage not registration. So their trademark rights in the name date back to the early 1920s.

Second, the school registered the trademark the name a while ago. The school has been contacting the colts for some time now. Furthermore, the school is willing to license the name for about 5K per year.

Third, it may seem like a simple name or simple words but sometimes that is after the fact that someone is using if for some time. And yes simple words or a simple name can be trademarked and strong too, kind of like making a soft drink from kola nuts and coca leaves and calling it Coca Cola. Should the Coca Cola Company give up the trademark rights to the name Coca Cola simple because it describes two ingredients?

Fourth, ah . . . maybe use another name like "Colts Nation" or something. Or maybe stop using it or simply license the name for a mere $5,000.00. How much again did Lucas Oil pay the colts to put the name on the side of the stadium? Sometime folks you are on the other side of the coin.

Fifth, sometimes folks have pride in who they are like "the dog pound", "the black hole", etc. and they want to keep that pride that has been instilled in the fan base over years and not have it watered down by folks copying the name or idea, that is we are unique and there is only one of us. That is where intellectual property rights come in to protect those folks from their unique pride being watered down. As the school fan based has been using the name with pride for near 100 years, its not too much to understand why they feel personal about the name and that they are THE 12th man, just as much as the Oakland Raiders fans pride themselves being the "Black Hole" or Browns pride themselves in being part of the "Dog Pound"

Superman · November 13, 2015

If it's trademarked, you can't use it. Plain and simple. Too bad the Colts didn't follow proper protocol, but I'm sure this will be resolved quickly and easily.

jet1968 · November 13, 2015

Trademark laws for "words" is a bunch of junk in my opinion.

There is a Burger King in Mattoon, Illinois that predates the Burger King everyone knows. It even had a state trademark before them. However since the Burger King everyone knows about had a federal trademark it trumped Mattoon Burger Kings state trademark. Nevertheless the well known Burger King cant have any stores in the Mattoon area( I believe county) and the smaller Burger King cant have a place outside of Mattoon. Point is- the Mattoon Burger was first to patent that trademark and it still didnt work out for them.

rockywoj · November 13, 2015

Too bad that Texas A&M is suing the colts. But here are a few points in regards to the case.

First, the fan based has referred to itself as the 12th man for nearly a century, starting in the early 1920s. Btw that is long before anyone on here wants to reference as "but I have heard it since xx year, what is the problem?" the usage predates anyone on here by 50 years at least. As for timing of trademarks rights they vest with usage not registration. So their trademark rights in the name date back to the early 1920s.

Second, the school registered the trademark the name a while ago. The school has been contacting the colts for some time now. Furthermore, the school is willing to license the name for about 5K per year.

Third, it may seem like a simple name or simple words but sometimes that is after the fact that someone is using if for some time. And yes simple words or a simple name can be trademarked and strong too, kind of like making a soft drink from kola nuts and coca leaves and calling it Coca Cola. Should the Coca Cola Company give up the trademark rights to the name Coca Cola simple because it describes two ingredients?

Fourth, ah . . . maybe use another name like "Colts Nation" or something. Or maybe stop using it or simply license the name for a mere $5,000.00. How much again did Lucas Oil pay the colts to put the name on the side of the stadium? Sometime folks you are on the other side of the coin.

Fifth, sometimes folks have pride in who they are like "the dog pound", "the black hole", etc. and they want to keep that pride that has been instilled in the fan base over years and not have it watered down by folks copying the name or idea, that is we are unique and there is only one of us. That is where intellectual property rights come in to protect those folks from their unique pride being watered down. As the school fan based has been using the name with pride for near 100 years, its not too much to understand why they feel personal about the name and that they are THE 12th man, just as much as the Oakland Raiders fans pride themselves being the "Black Hole" or Browns pride themselves in being part of the "Dog Pound"

Well to re-post my finding ...

Looking at the original registration, how is the Colts use a violation of the expressed use of their TM for 1. Jewellry, 2. Entertainment Services, namely organizing and conducting intercollegiate sporting events ?

Was there a subsequent modification of the uses the TM applies to? If not, the Colts use was not for either uses.

Reading through all the documents, it seems to me, as a "layman", the TM relates ONLY to all activities related to intercollegiate sporting events, and all subsequent merchandising for said intercollegiate sporting events. Ergo, the TM ought not extend to the Colts' use of the generic sporting term "12th man" as used in "Professional" sports.

The TM registration was very specific in saying intercollegiate sporting events. It did NOT say ALL sporting events. Ergo, I would argue that unless there was a subsequent modification of the breadth of the TM, it simply does not apply to professional sports. If I were a deep pocketed NFL owner, I would consult an expert TM Law Firm and fight this apparent over reaching of the TM beyond what it's stated application is.

Superman · November 13, 2015

Well to re-post my finding ...

Looking at the original registration, how is the Colts use a violation of the expressed use of their TM for 1. Jewellry, 2. Entertainment Services, namely organizing and conducting intercollegiate sporting events ?

Was there a subsequent modification of the uses the TM applies to? If not, the Colts use was not for either uses.

Reading through all the documents, it seems to me, as a "layman", the TM relates ONLY to all activities related to intercollegiate sporting events, and all subsequent merchandising for said intercollegiate sporting events. Ergo, the TM ought not extend to the Colts' use of the generic sporting term "12th man" as used in "Professional" sports.

The TM registration was very specific in saying intercollegiate sporting events. It did NOT say ALL sporting events. Ergo, I would argue that unless there was a subsequent modification of the breadth of the TM, it simply does not apply to professional sports. If I were a deep pocketed NFL owner, I would consult an expert TM Law Firm and fight this apparent over reaching of the TM beyond what it's stated application is.

Interesting thoughts, but considering the precedent set by other professional teams -- like the Seahawks -- to pay a licensing fee based on this trademark, I would figure that someone has already looked into that and determined that the trademark applies to NFL teams.

What's noteworthy to me is that the Seahawks reportedly only have to pay $5K/year. That's not a lot of money, all things considered.

Yehoodi · November 13, 2015

Well to re-post my finding ...

Looking at the original registration, how is the Colts use a violation of the expressed use of their TM for 1. Jewellry, 2. Entertainment Services, namely organizing and conducting intercollegiate sporting events ?

Was there a subsequent modification of the uses the TM applies to? If not, the Colts use was not for either uses.

Reading through all the documents, it seems to me, as a "layman", the TM relates ONLY to all activities related to intercollegiate sporting events, and all subsequent merchandising for said intercollegiate sporting events. Ergo, the TM ought not extend to the Colts' use of the generic sporting term "12th man" as used in "Professional" sports.

The TM registration was very specific in saying intercollegiate sporting events. It did NOT say ALL sporting events. Ergo, I would argue that unless there was a subsequent modification of the breadth of the TM, it simply does not apply to professional sports. If I were a deep pocketed NFL owner, I would consult an expert TM Law Firm and fight this apparent over reaching of the TM beyond what it's stated application is.

As I mentioned earlier one's rights vest with usage and the registration merely allows additional rights, two of which are putting the public on notice that the mark belongs to you and allows you to walk into federal court.

You bring up some interesting points but as you asked Texas A&M indeed has additional marks with this one being on point. http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76671314&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

it covers the gambit of sporting events and also references its first usage in 1922.

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Texas A&M has sued the Indianapolis Colts for unauthorized use to its 12th Man trademarks. (Merge)

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