Peyton Manning played past month with a torn quad

[Bobbycovert]

I didn't treat you with disrespect.  Why do you respond by terming my opinion as "silly"?

 

Goodbye.

 

If you are that sensitive about your opinions, you're gonna have a rough time around here. That said, I had no intention of disrespecting you.  I simply don't see your perspective at all.  I apologize if it came across as mean spirited.  Not my intent.

 

Re: the Ted Williams thing. My understanding was that you had pointed him out as examples of players who could no longer perform when he retired.  I don't disagree but the specific example of homeruns in his final game struck me as funny because I knew he hit one.

[runthepost]

That had to hurt, especially his right leg which he would use to push off while throwing. That is probably why his deep throws looked bad.

Still is amazing how far he was throwing with just his arm yesterday

[Cynjin]

Still is amazing how far he was throwing with just his arm yesterday

Very true, I had a tear in a muscle in my back, very difficult to play with. A tear in the plant leg for a QB would be much worse IMO.

[oldunclemark]

Why was he not on the injury report then?

He's been on the injury report since the Rams game

[amfootball]

He's been on the injury report since the Rams game

He was? What was he listed as?

[45ACP]

If you are that sensitive about your opinions, you're gonna have a rough time around here. That said, I had no intention of disrespecting you.  I simply don't see your perspective at all.  I apologize if it came across as mean spirited.  Not my intent.

 

Re: the Ted Williams thing. My understanding was that you had pointed him out as examples of players who could no longer perform when he retired.  I don't disagree but the specific example of homeruns in his final game struck me as funny because I knew he hit one.

That's why I gave that example, because I was aware that he hit a homer (See the line "Gods Don't Answer Letters" in "Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu").  And that Ruth hit 3 homers, drove in a bunch or runs etc. 

 

My opinion is Manning can probably do it in short bursts.  Maybe they served up meatballs to Ruth and Williams, but my point was to give examples of great players (Earl Morrall also) who retired before they really stunk it up. 

[oldunclemark]

Still is amazing how far he was throwing with just his arm yesterday

This explains a lot..and I'm glad to hear it..

The worst case scenario would be if he was not hurt and threw the ball like that..

...He'll be back next year...he cant let that be his last game

[oldunclemark]

He was? What was he listed as?

Thigh injury..every week...and obviously he missed mid week practices..

...Nobody paid any attention because he lied and said he was fine

[Bobbycovert]

That's why I gave that example, because I was aware that he hit a homer (See the line "Gods Don't Answer Letters" in "Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu").  And that Ruth hit 3 homers, drove in a bunch or runs etc. 

 

My opinion is Manning can probably do it in short bursts.  Maybe they served up meatballs to Ruth and Williams, but my point was to give examples of great players (Earl Morrall also) who retired before they really stunk it up. 

 

I understand your meaning now.  I don't think Manning only excelled in short bursts this season and would suggest that his recent performances are more likely due to circumstances like injury, venue, and just plain ol' bad match ups.  I could be wrong. Hopefully he comes back next year so we can see.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

I understand your meaning now. I don't think Manning only excelled in short bursts this season and would suggest that his recent performances are more likely due to circumstances like injury, venue, and just plain ol' bad match ups. I could be wrong. Hopefully he comes back next year so we can see.

It'd be cool if we could play the broncos next year in the postseason again. Something about beating your old QB is satisfying to me. Also, easy wins are always nice. I am not a good person.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Specifically: Peyton Manning has a torn rectus femoris, which runs down center of thigh. Bruising was so severe it spread to back of his leg

On one hand, I felt it was a tad selfish on Peyton's part to hide it but then, it also speaks to the confidence they have in Osweiler to let him take the reins for a few games late in the season. But if it was primarily handing the ball over to CJ during those last few games, Oz could have done it just as well, IMO.

Coaches and doctors botched it, while keeping Peyton injured and playing, IMO.

Or you could put some blame on Peyton for wanting yo play. The doc and coach can't force the man to play...

[Bobbycovert]

It'd be cool if we could play the broncos next year in the postseason again. Something about beating your old QB is satisfying to me. Also, easy wins are always nice. I am not a good person.

 

For me, the most satisfying part was seeing the Colts beat a team that many picked to win.  The Colts had some shaky moments this season and a lot of people attributed their success to being in a weak division.  I'm really enjoying seeing the team make some noise in the playoffs. Unreal to think they've made it a step further each year.

[Jules]

Here it comes. The post one and done excuses.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Here it comes. The post one and done excuses.

Yeah, agreed.  

 

Here's my vantage point, Rodgers is playing with a severe injury, but because he is young and is at the peak of his physical strength and prowess, he is finding a way to pull it off.  He can't do it all, but he can change his game enough to play hurt and still get the job done.

 

The more hits a QB takes, the more easily the next hit knocks them for a loop.  He was hit a few times where you could see him physically reacting to that pain.  I believe that's the point that Peyton has reached.  In worker's compensation underwriting terminology (I worked as an underwriter's assistant when I was young) it's called "cumulative trauma."  No one shot takes you out, but the build up of many hits over the course of a season and/or career.  

 

The older athlete doesn't recover as quickly not only from injury but from the physical demands of a normal game or practice, loses 1/2 a step so they can't escape the hit as well, and their reflexes are a fraction of a second slower.  The difference between NFL football's best and the average Joe is measured in fractions of a second. The Defense you're facing every year is significantly younger than you are.  They are stronger, faster, hungrier and hungry to take down a legend... 

[Moose Of Woe]

Yeah, agreed.  

 

Here's my vantage point, Rodgers is playing with a severe injury, but because he is young and is at the peak of his physical strength and prowess, he is finding a way to pull it off.  He can't do it all, but he can change his game enough to play hurt and still get the job done.

 

The more hits a QB takes, the more easily the next hit knocks them for a loop.  He was hit a few times where you could see him physically reacting to that pain.  I believe that's the point that Peyton has reached.  In worker's compensation underwriting terminology (I worked as an underwriter's assistant when I was young) it's called "cumulative trauma."  No one shot takes you out, but the build up of many hits over the course of a season and/or career.  

 

The older athlete doesn't recover as quickly not only from injury but from the physical demands of a normal game or practice, loses 1/2 a step so they can't escape the hit as well, and their reflexes are a fraction of a second slower.  The difference between NFL football's best and the average Joe is measured in fractions of a second. The Defense you're facing every year is significantly younger than you are.  They are stronger, faster, hungrier and hungry to take down a legend... 

Fact not withstanding even if both are healthy Rodgers is better than Peyton as of the last several seasons, too.  He's the best QB in the game by a mile so it shouldn't be surprising he still finds ways to get it done.

[OffensivelyPC]

Fact not withstanding even if both are healthy Rodgers is better than Peyton as of the last several seasons, too.  He's the best QB in the game by a mile so it shouldn't be surprising he still finds ways to get it done.

Peyton had the greatest regular season of any QB in the history of the NFL last year.  Rodgers may have a brighter future, but even before he got hurt last year, he was pretty far behind Manning's pace.  So saying Rodgers is the "best QB by a mile" is a stretch by a mile.  This year, maybe.  But not as of the last several seasons as you said.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Fact not withstanding even if both are healthy Rodgers is better than Peyton as of the last several seasons, too.  He's the best QB in the game by a mile so it shouldn't be surprising he still finds ways to get it done.

I don't disagree with your judgment, but the point I was making is a younger QB vs an older QB - not arguing who is best that is an endless and often pointless discussion.  Change the names and the points I made are equally true.  

[Moose Of Woe]

Peyton had the greatest regular season of any QB in the history of the NFL last year.  Rodgers may have a brighter future, but even before he got hurt last year, he was pretty far behind Manning's pace.  So saying Rodgers is the "best QB by a mile" is a stretch by a mile.  This year, maybe.  But not as of the last several seasons as you said.

Keep in mind a lot of those TD's and yards were off screens and short passes for large Y.A.C. Also bear in mind Peyton had good protection while Rodgers, quite simply, does not. Peyton also had a better running back with Moreno and, imo, a better receiving group. Thomas/Thomas/Decker and Welker (when not concussed.) Welker really dropped hard this year, though.

 

Manning had a full on noodle arm last year. Rodgers can sling it wherever he wants with great accuracy. Peyton once could, too, but not anymore.

 

Stats only tell so much...you have to look at what each QB has to work with. Who they play, what they contribute....not just a stat sheet. That #1 offense got obliterated by Seattle along with the rest of the team and "coaching staff."

[Paulballs]

I've moved on - not a Manning fan, a Colts fan.  Manning does not play for the Colts, and I'm not much for pining over 2006.

Amen to this. I feel the same. Loved Manning, but Im over Manning. 

[t-rex]

A new report says Manning had a strained quad and not a torn quad.

[OffensivelyPC]

Keep in mind a lot of those TD's and yards were off screens and short passes for large Y.A.C. Also bear in mind Peyton had good protection while Rodgers, quite simply, does not. Peyton also had a better running back with Moreno and, imo, a better receiving group. Thomas/Thomas/Decker and Welker (when not concussed.) Welker really dropped hard this year, though.

 

Manning had a full on noodle arm last year. Rodgers can sling it wherever he wants with great accuracy. Peyton once could, too, but not anymore.

 

Stats only tell so much...you have to look at what each QB has to work with. Who they play, what they contribute....not just a stat sheet.

Stats only tell so much, sure.  But no matter how you slice it, Rodgers has never had as good of a season, so the only way you get him to that level is by making excuses for Rodgers or against Manning.  In the end, players are judged by the numbers.  Yeah, they throw in unquantifiable things in there like "living in the opposing teams backfield," and "picked defenses apart" and what not.  But when you hear about greatest achievements, the people who disagree with it are saying how so and so had a better supporting cast or had Manning been on the Patriots back then...  Crap like that.  It's fun fodder, but ni the end, the numbers are what they are and that's what generally separates one player from another.  Superbowl rings are a different beast altogether, and I don't really care to go there right now.  It's a bad argument for those who disagree and a good argument for those that do.

[Dr. Guildo]

This explains a lot..and I'm glad to hear it..

The worst case scenario would be if he was not hurt and threw the ball like that..

...He'll be back next year...he cant let that be his last game

He might not have a choice because if a new regime comes in to Denver, and decide to make wholesale changes he may be let go... and I believe his contract will make the split pretty simple. The other thing is that if Peyton goes those receivers will probably part ways with the team too because theirs are up.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Stats only tell so much, sure.  But no matter how you slice it, Rodgers has never had as good of a season, so the only way you get him to that level is by making excuses for Rodgers or against Manning.  In the end, players are judged by the numbers.  Yeah, they throw in unquantifiable things in there like "living in the opposing teams backfield," and "picked defenses apart" and what not.  But when you hear about greatest achievements, the people who disagree with it are saying how so and so had a better supporting cast or had Manning been on the Patriots back then...  Crap like that.  It's fun fodder, but ni the end, the numbers are what they are and that's what generally separates one player from another.  Superbowl rings are a different beast altogether, and I don't really care to go there right now.  It's a bad argument for those who disagree and a good argument for those that do.

Numbers lie.  

 

A poor running team that relies too heavily on the pass can put enormous numbers up for a QB and not end up winning where it is important, in the playoffs.  

 

A team with a poor defense can put the pressure on a QB to constantly throw the ball to try to hang in the game.  

 

You can have have magnificent numbers in a game and still lose the game.

 

A GREAT QB needs to have the talent to be able to put up the numbers, or be willing to execute the game plan that gets the win, whatever it may be.  The key is the desire to advance the team.  

 

Hence also the biggest untruth - the win or loss is always about the QB.

[Superman]

I've never seen a group of people so obsessed with so-called injury report violations. Manning was on the injury report every week after the Chargers game, when the injury supposedly occured.  http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/injury-report.html

[dw49]

Here it comes. The post one and done excuses.

 

 

Yeah and I even see now where some are really impressed that he had such good arm strength considering he's injured. Lord...

[45ACP]

Amen to this. I feel the same. Loved Manning, but Im over Manning. 

Here's alink my brother (the Pats fan) sent me:

 

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/no-debate-facts-show-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

[pacolts56]

No wonder they didn't run the read/option.

[Qwiz]

Sooooo I guess he's not going to the Pro Bowl then?

[OffensivelyPC]

Numbers lie.  

 

A poor running team that relies too heavily on the pass can put enormous numbers up for a QB and not end up winning where it is important, in the playoffs.  

 

A team with a poor defense can put the pressure on a QB to constantly throw the ball to try to hang in the game.  

 

You can have have magnificent numbers in a game and still lose the game.

 

A GREAT QB needs to have the talent to be able to put up the numbers, or be willing to execute the game plan that gets the win, whatever it may be.  The key is the desire to advance the team.  

 

Hence also the biggest untruth - the win or loss is always about the QB.

I get all this.  But if we're talking, greatest single season history in the history of the profession, we are going to be talking numbers, because without it, all the rest of that stuff you just mentioned doesn't even matter.  Numbers are the starting point, that's all I was trying to say.  But when a guy breaks every single record for the position in one season, who the second best guy was throwing to, how his running game was, or the defense around him won't even enter the discussion.  It shouldn't.  Because last year, Manning broke every conceivable record.  Playing the what-if game is just an exercise in futility.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Because last year, Manning broke every conceivable record.  Playing the what-if game is just an exercise in futility.

Which is why I will never get involved in the GOAT discussions or comparing two different qbs.  It's a futile discussion that wastes a lot of time and energy.  

[Nadine]

Fans on the Broncos forum still calling for a change at QB... You'd think playing through injury would be admired and rewarded with some loyalty. Maybe its just a vocal minority, but Broncos fans have really embarrassed themselves.

the fire everybody crowd is always loud.  It is here as well

[OffensivelyPC]

Which is why I will never get involved in the GOAT discussions or comparing two different qbs.  It's a futile discussion that wastes a lot of time and energy.  

I agree with that sentiment.  People have their favorites based on their opinions and that's about it.

[Synthetic]

If he was hurt, why wasn't he benched? He could risk his future health just for playing hurt.

 

So this is what the excuse is going to be. There is always an excuse when Manning blows a big one or goes one and done.

 

You cannot take away the fact that his passes have declined. He was throwing wobbly balls last year. No one thought about it and ignored it cause his stats were more of the talk. He has declined tremendously and is not the same quarterback he was when he was with the Colts.

 

But it's always some excuse when he goes one and done or blows the big one.

 

Remember the 2009 SB and how his fans blamed Reggie Wayne? Or how the one and done in 2005 was the o-line's fault? It's always something. Always. Never can anyone just say "he played poorly" cause the greatest quarterback of all time takes no blame for anything. The total opposite of how everyone treated Favre when he lost close playoff games.

 

Does anyone ever notice when Manning loses in the playoffs, he does not score 20 points most the time?

 

2013 - 8 points vs Seattle

2012 - 35 points vs Baltimore (with 2 TD's from special teams)

2010 - 16 points vs NY Jets

2009 - 17 points vs New Orleans

2008 - 17 points vs San Diego

2007 - 24 points vs San Diego

2005 - 18 points vs Pittsburgh

 

I am not buying this all the way. I wish he would retire instead of risking his body some more. He has to think about his future. Man can't throw a dumb ball forever. There is life after football, and given his name, he'll probably find success easily doing anything.

 

 

It wouldn't bother me at all if people actually gave the other team credit when they beat Manning. The Saints got no credit when we beat him. No one gave us a chance for that SB. You all know it, cause we heard non stop how we were just lucky to be there and we were going to get blown out. Then before Seattle, you all know none of you gave the Seahawks a chance. 70% of all bets in Vegas were on Denver. Denver was the favor teamed. Even I picked them, and they only scored 8 points. After the SB, everyone pretended "the Seahawks were just a better team!" (No one said this before the SB. No one). Same thing happened for the Chargers both times they came up and beat the Colts in the playoffs.

 

Now Colts fans know how we felt when we came up and stomped him in the SB, and no one gave us credit for it. All the focus was on the pick 6 and not Brees' MVP performance in that SB. Just like right now, there's no focus on how the Colts overcame 2 turnovers and managed to beat Denver, all they want to talk about is Manning Manning Manning.

[Paulballs]

The quad seemed pretty good to me on that first drive with a 35 yrd pass to Thomas. Then he got Newson-ized and suddenly the quad was a problem. Boo hoo Peyton.

[buffalo34]

 

 

Does anyone ever notice when Manning loses in the playoffs, he does not score 20 points most the time?

 

2013 - 8 points vs Seattle

2012 - 35 points vs Baltimore (with 2 TD's from special teams)

2010 - 16 points vs NY Jets

2009 - 17 points vs New Orleans

2008 - 17 points vs San Diego

2007 - 24 points vs San Diego

2005 - 18 points vs Pittsburgh

 

2005, Vanderjagt pushed the game tying FG like 3 miles wide. Easily Peyton's fault.

 

2007 the Colts defense couldn't stop legendary QB Billy Volek. Obviously Peyton's fault.

 

2008, the Chargers walked down the field in the final minute to get a game tying FG, game goes to OT, Chargers get the ball first, walk down the field again to win the game with a TD. Maybe Peyton called the coin toss wrong or something. 100% on him.

 

2010, Peyton leads the Colts on a go-ahead FG drive with 50 seconds left. The Colts let the Jets return the kickoff to midfield and the Jets easily get into FG range and win in the final seconds. 110% on Peyton here.

 

2012, a successful Hail Mary and a bad play by Rahim Moore in the final minute can be completely attributed to Peyton.

 

I'm not saying he's free of blame in every postseason loss. I'm not going to defend last night or the Super Bowl last year, for example. But to say every playoff loss can and should be pinned on him and solely him is a bit ridiculous...

[ViriLudant]

Strained quad, not torn. Major difference.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2327121-peyton-manning-injury-updates-on-broncos-stars-quad-and-recovery

[Fx Stryker]

Strained quad, not torn. Major difference.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2327121-peyton-manning-injury-updates-on-broncos-stars-quad-and-recovery

Technically still a tear. Small one, but a tear. I've seen reports one thigh was torn and one thigh was a strain. I've also seen his entire thigh was black and blue from the injury.

Either way he and the Broncos didn't play well yesterday.

However, personally, I take the thigh as more of a conclusion for the sudden drop off than an excuse for the loss. I mean an injury makes much more sense than he just hit the wall.

Yes, eventually the body gives out, but the mind never does. And the strangest part about his last month were the mental mistakes. As if his mind was concentrated on something else, like trying to not exacerbate an injury by making a wrong body move.

[oldunclemark]

Everyone wants to be the first to report or predict that Peyton is retiring..

..Its been said for 5 years now...

...I just do not think he's going to let that be his last game..and as the Broncos search for a new coach..

they are gong to have to tell the coach who the QB is..the subject will come up

[dw49]

Everyone wants to be the first to report or predict that Peyton is retiring..

..Its been said for 5 years now...

...I just do not think he's going to let that be his last game..and as the Broncos search for a new coach..

they are gong to have to tell the coach who the QB is..the subject will come up

 

 

There's speculation that if the Broncos want Manning to come back , they would probably promote the OC Adam Gase. The two got along and it's also speculated that PM should not want to go into a situation warranting a new offense. Notice i said "speculation " twice. 

 

Anyway , that said , here's the latest report on Gase , which is followed by some speculation. So for what it's worth......

 

 

Report: Broncos not expected to promote Gase

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Broncos are not expected to promote OC Adam Gase to head coach, and it "would be a surprise" if they went in-house to replace John Fox.

La Canfora says "all coaches under contract are free to explore other options" after the Broncos and Fox mutually parted ways. It appears GM John Elway is blowing this thing up, perhaps with knowledge Peyton Manning intends to retire. It's also possible Elway simply doesn't want to bring Manning back at his non-guaranteed $19 million. The Broncos still have enough to "win now."

[GoColts8818]

Bummer he was hurt. Impressive he played on a torn quad.