Chuck Pagano speaks on 2 headed monster at TE for Colts

[TKnight24]

Pagano says Fleener/Allen will interchange at TE. Will ask Fleener to block more: "We’re going to ask him to do some of the heavy lifting"

— Stephen Holder (@HolderStephen)

March 25, 2014

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited to see Allen & Fleener healthy & together in this offense. It's no secret that Pep Hamilton & Andrew Luck love TE's dating all the way back to their Stanford days with Ertz, Tolilo (spellcheck), & Fleener. If we get a solid offensive line line-up and can stay healthy I don't see why Allen and Fleener can't combine for at least 1,500 receiving yards

[CR91]

Luck has a tremendous amount of talent everywhere. As long as the oline keeps him upright, I don't see why we can't have the number one offense. Our defense isn't too bad either. Just need to be more discipline against the run. We have flashes of being good at stopping the run, but we need to be more consistent. If we can find that center fielder for our defense, Landry Cando what he does best which is attack

[Smonroe]

Which guy has two heads? Still, there's no need to call him names.

[NewColtsFan]

Pagano says Fleener/Allen will interchange at TE. Will ask Fleener to block more: "We’re going to ask him to do some of the heavy lifting"

— Stephen Holder (@HolderStephen)

March 25, 2014

I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited to see Allen & Fleener healthy & together in this offense. It's no secret that Pep Hamilton & Andrew Luck love TE's dating all the way back to their Stanford days with Ertz, Tolilo (spellcheck), & Fleener. If we get a solid offensive line line-up and can stay healthy I don't see why Allen and Fleener can't combine for at least 1,500 receiving yards

 

 

Our tight ends will not get 1,500 yards receiving.

 

They'll get roughly 100 catches combined...   and probably average 11-13 yards per catch combined.   That comes out to 1100-1300 yards per catch.    1500 yards is just way too high.   Those would be wide receiver like numbers.

 

And this is more true than ever with Nicks joining Reggie and TYH and Rogers (plus Brazil/Whalen).... 

 

Wish they could....   but they won't....

 

And if they do,  I'll buy you a whole lot of Apple Juice!!    

[jvan1973]

Our tight ends will not get 1,500 yards receiving.

They'll get roughly 100 catches combined... and probably average 11-13 yards per catch combined. That comes out to 1100-1300 yards per catch. 1500 yards is just way too high. Those would be wide receiver like numbers.

And this is more true than ever with Nicks joining Reggie and TYH and Rogers (plus Brazil/Whalen)....

Wish they could.... but they won't....

And if they do, I'll buy you a whole lot of Apple Juice!!

So you think they can get to 1,300 yards combined, but 1,500 yards combined is out of the question? Interesting

[NewColtsFan]

So you think they can get to 1,300 yards combined, but 1,500 yards combined is out of the question? Interesting

 

Honestly, 1300 is the very high end.   And it's very unlikely.   I only went that high on the off chance that Fleener turned into a monster and we used him enough.   I'm not expecting either to happen.

 

And I didn't pick one number -- you did.

 

I said 1100-1300....   you chose to focus on one number.     The truth will likely be closer to 1200.

 

I mean a decent tight end typically average 10.5-11.5 yards per catch.    Someone better might average 12.0 to 13.0.

 

So,  average the two out...   11 yards per catch for one...  likely Allen...   and 12.5 yard per catch for Fleener.    Give them roughly the same number of catches and you've got just under 1200 yards.

 

I'm happy to re-visit this at the end of the year if you like.......

 

Hey, I'd love to be wrong!    I love a two tight-end based offense.    But I don't see 1500 yards of success in our future.

[COLTS449]

With the talent we have at WR now, I think its unlikely Allen and Fleener can combine for 1,500 yards. I look for each to have around 500 or 600 each. Its exciting to think about next year with all the talent we have. Lets just hope the O Line holds up.

[Stoney]

Honestly, 1300 is the very high end. And it's very unlikely. I only went that high on the off chance that Fleener turned into a monster and we used him enough. I'm not expecting either to happen.

And I didn't pick one number -- you did.

I said 1100-1300.... you chose to focus on one number. The truth will likely be closer to 1200.

I mean a decent tight end typically average 10.5-11.5 yards per catch. Someone better might average 12.0 to 13.0.

So, average the two out... 11 yards per catch for one... likely Allen... and 12.5 yard per catch for Fleener. Give them roughly the same number of catches and you've got just under 1200 yards.

I'm happy to re-visit this at the end of the year if you like.......

Hey, I'd love to be wrong! I love a two tight-end based offense. But I don't see 1500 yards of success in our future.

Tell us more almighty Jesus. How many fingers am I holding up? I'll give you time. I'm sure u can figure out cuz it seems like you have some serious mass in your brain. What are your based calculations on Vick Ballard?? How many yards do you forsee in the upcoming season for him coming off knee surgery? I predict 700 but I'm probly wrong right? Ur probly thinking more along the lines of 690. Hey, you're that guy.

[lollygagger8]

If Fleener learns how to block, then we are going to provide all sorts of fits for opposing defenses if our TE's chip and then go out for passes. 

 

There's no Defense in the league that can stop Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, Allen and Fleener at the same time. 

[throwing BBZ]

Honestly, 1300 is the very high end.   And it's very unlikely.   I only went that high on the off chance that Fleener turned into a monster and we used him enough.   I'm not expecting either to happen.

 

And I didn't pick one number -- you did.

 

I said 1100-1300....   you chose to focus on one number.     The truth will likely be closer to 1200.

 

I mean a decent tight end typically average 10.5-11.5 yards per catch.    Someone better might average 12.0 to 13.0.

 

So,  average the two out...   11 yards per catch for one...  likely Allen...   and 12.5 yard per catch for Fleener.    Give them roughly the same number of catches and you've got just under 1200 yards.

 

I'm happy to re-visit this at the end of the year if you like.......

 

Hey, I'd love to be wrong!    I love a two tight-end based offense.    But I don't see 1500 yards of success in our future.

 

You are smarter than the people you are dealing with. lol

[throwing BBZ]

If Fleener learns how to block, then we are going to provide all sorts of fits for opposing defenses if our TE's chip and then go out for passes. 

 

There's no Defense in the league that can stop Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, Allen and Fleener at the same time. 

 

 They don`t have to. Andrew is the weak link because of timing, accuracy, decision making issues, and his late throws. He was a - in the PFF passing category for a reason.

Certainly Castonzo & Cherilus, and.... were part of it... yes he definitely needs more time.

[ztboiler]

Honestly, 1300 is the very high end.   And it's very unlikely.   I only went that high on the off chance that Fleener turned into a monster and we used him enough.   I'm not expecting either to happen.

 

And I didn't pick one number -- you did.

 

I said 1100-1300....   you chose to focus on one number.     The truth will likely be closer to 1200.

 

I mean a decent tight end typically average 10.5-11.5 yards per catch.    Someone better might average 12.0 to 13.0.

 

So,  average the two out...   11 yards per catch for one...  likely Allen...   and 12.5 yard per catch for Fleener.    Give them roughly the same number of catches and you've got just under 1200 yards.

 

I'm happy to re-visit this at the end of the year if you like.......

 

Hey, I'd love to be wrong!    I love a two tight-end based offense.    But I don't see 1500 yards of success in our future.

My initial reaction is the same as yours. 2 things would have to happen for 1500 to occur.  We'll have to run the ball a lot less than Pagano suggests he plans to, and we'll have to take 1 of Nicks, Wayne or Hilton off the field more than I expect to - essentially moving toward the Gronk/Hernandez offense.  That likely either involves an injury or combination or Fleener emerging and Wayne declining as a match-up problem.  I love Fleener, but Allen still looks like the every down TE to me and I don't see Fleener as such a match-up problem yet for the defense that you can't take him off the field.  That said, Fleener has the talent to change that and took a big step toward it in the second half of the year.  In 2011, Gronk had 1300+ and Hernandez 900+ while Welker still had over 1500.   

[NewColtsFan]

My initial reaction is the same as yours. 2 things would have to happen for 1500 to occur.  We'll have to run the ball a lot less than Pagano suggests he plans to, and we'll have to take 1 of Nicks, Wayne or Hilton off the field more than I expect to - essentially moving toward the Gronk/Hernandez offense.  That likely either involves an injury or combination or Fleener emerging and Wayne declining as a match-up problem.  I love Fleener, but Allen still looks like the every down TE to me and I don't see Fleener as such a match-up problem yet for the defense that you can't take him off the field.  That said, Fleener has the talent to change that and took a big step toward it in the second half of the year.  In 2011, Gronk had 1300+ and Hernandez 900+ while Welker still had over 1500.   

 

Really good post by you, ZT....   really good.

 

Capped off by a good reminder of what New England did in 2011.

 

I just don't see the same weapons.   I like the 2011 Gronk/Hernandez combo better than Allen/Fleener, and I love our two guys.  And with our 3 WR's,  as you noted,  I don't see them coming off the field too much...  an injury would have to factor in.

 

Hey, it's worth saying again...   I'd love to be wrong. 

 

But as I noted to TKnight, I don't see our two tight ends catching much more than 100 passes combined.   Roughly 6-7 a game.

 

They'd have to average a combined 15 yards a catch to get to 1500 yards.    I don't see our guys getting that kind of yardage.

 

But,  this is a fun kind of problem to debate.   Certainly a better problem than most teams have! 

[NewColtsFan]

Tell us more almighty Jesus. How many fingers am I holding up? I'll give you time. I'm sure u can figure out cuz it seems like you have some serious mass in your brain. What are your based calculations on Vick Ballard?? How many yards do you forsee in the upcoming season for him coming off knee surgery? I predict 700 but I'm probly wrong right? Ur probly thinking more along the lines of 690. Hey, you're that guy.

 

Stoney.....

 

I'm not aware that we've had much (any?) interaction before,  so I'll take this post to mean you think I'm completely full of it and you're not a fan.

 

Fine.

 

Somehow I'll manage to survive.

 

But I didn't do anything more than simple math to figure out what the likelihood of our tight ends getting 1500 yards of receptions this year.    The same simple math you had in junior high and high school.   I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have a high school diploma.    You should be able to figure this out all by yourself.

 

But, until then, if my posts rub you the wrong way -- and clearly they do! -- why don't you simply click on the ignore function that the website offers.   I'm sure you wouldn't be the first person to ignore me, nor the last.

 

I don't mean to bother anyone, I just offer my views and hope people here find them interesting.    And when I express a view that might be considered negative toward the Colts, I try to add something that says "I'd love to be wrong..."    which I have in several posts in this thread.

 

But, if that's not enough for you..........    ignore me.

 

I think your time here on this website will be much more fun!

 

Good luck to you......

[Valpo2004]

Meh I just don't see Fleener as being anything more then an average starting TE, while Allen pre-injury was fantastic.

 

I don't see why we should take the greater of the 2 weapons off the field just to give the lesser one some playing time.

[Jason_]

Meh I just don't see Fleener as being anything more then an average starting TE, while Allen pre-injury was fantastic.

 

I don't see why we should take the greater of the 2 weapons off the field just to give the lesser one some playing time.

 

Fleener has the size and athletic ability to be a more explosive big-play threat than Allen does.  He took steps towards realizing his big-play ability last year, and if he continues to improve then his big-play ability will exceed that of Allen.

[braveheartcolt]

Meh I just don't see Fleener as being anything more then an average starting TE, while Allen pre-injury was fantastic.

 

I don't see why we should take the greater of the 2 weapons off the field just to give the lesser one some playing time.

Really. You've come to that sparkling conclusion after how long? Fleener made a decent jump from year one, to year two. He may jump higher. Allen's progress is unknown. I'll stick, and see what happens.

[Stoney]

Stoney.....

I'm not aware that we've had much (any?) interaction before, so I'll take this post to mean you think I'm completely full of it and you're not a fan.

Fine.

Somehow I'll manage to survive.

But I didn't do anything more than simple math to figure out what the likelihood of our tight ends getting 1500 yards of receptions this year. The same simple math you had in junior high and high school. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you have a high school diploma. You should be able to figure this out all by yourself.

But, until then, if my posts rub you the wrong way -- and clearly they do! -- why don't you simply click on the ignore function that the website offers. I'm sure you wouldn't be the first person to ignore me, nor the last.

I don't mean to bother anyone, I just offer my views and hope people here find them interesting. And when I express a view that might be considered negative toward the Colts, I try to add something that says "I'd love to be wrong..." which I have in several posts in this thread.

But, if that's not enough for you.......... ignore me.

I think your time here on this website will be much more fun!

Good luck to you......

OMG I feel like you already know so much about me! Nah I'm not gonna click on ignore cuz I'm not a woman, plus where's all the fun in that? Well now that we've met we can both embrace future posts from eachother. I can tell that you like to be an intelligent poster so I'll try to pick up my grammar game for ya in the future. But I shall forever call you "that guy" cuz only that guy would tell someone you're wrong by 200 yards on a whole season and make a big math equation out of it ;)

[Smonroe]

I'll be so much happier about all these "weapons" once I know we have an interior line that let's us use them.

Right now my nickname for our C and two G's is Question Mark and the Mysterians. Are we looking at 96 tears?

(Post for people over 50)

[ProblChld32]

Cant wait to see what havoc a healthy Allen and Fleener wreaks on opposing defenses. Fleener has showed improvement in his second season, we already what we have in Allen. This could prove to be a nightmare for defensice coordinators.

[antipatriot]

I am just happy to hear that our coach is willing to do something other than run run pass, run run pass run run pass oh were behind now we will pass pass pass run pass pass.

 

You all get where I am going with it.

 

Oh and I do think we have two very good TE's that can both be explosive and also block.  We are very lucky.

[John Waylon]

OMG I feel like you already know so much about me! Nah I'm not gonna click on ignore cuz I'm not a woman, plus where's all the fun in that? Well now that we've met we can both embrace future posts from eachother. I can tell that you like to be an intelligent poster so I'll try to pick up my grammar game for ya in the future. But I shall forever call you "that guy" cuz only that guy would tell someone you're wrong by 200 yards on a whole season and make a big math equation out of it ;)

 

Dealing with a teenager here...

[shakedownstreet]

Dwayne Allen's job was to run the vacuum Fleener at the Colt's facility while he was out with the foot injury

[dgambill]

I am excited...but mostly for the running game. Allen was a beast blocker and a GREAT redzone target. That is where he will make his biggest impact....yards I don't think is a big thing. I'm not predicting anything but if both remain healthy will have large roles in different ways. Allen will help the running game a lot and make some big chain moving catches on third down...and probably have more TDs...and Fleener will probably work out in space more and have bigger plays down the field in that 10-20 yd range. I will be happy to have both...and most importantly...I could be very wrong but because I AM NOT SOLD ON REGGIE BEING REGGIE. I just am not confident in a come back at his age from that injury. I liken it to Jerry Rice...he will still have great hands and can make some plays...but he won't be that 1,000yd guy anymore. If anything I see them looking to Nicks and TY more. I hope I'm wrong....I hope Reggie is great...but I just don't feel strong about it. If that is the case the two TE sets will be even more important.

[wig]

I'll bet you that our TEs don't have 1,500 yards and Ballard won't get 700.

Edited March 26, 2014 by 21isSuperman

[ColtsLegacy]

In one TE sets I expect Allen to get 95% of the snaps, at least that's how it should be. Allen needs to be on the field nearly every snap with his combination of receiving and blocking skills.

I am very excited to see what our WR/TEs do. Is it football season yet!?

[NewColtsFan]

OMG I feel like you already know so much about me! Nah I'm not gonna click on ignore cuz I'm not a woman, plus where's all the fun in that? Well now that we've met we can both embrace future posts from eachother. I can tell that you like to be an intelligent poster so I'll try to pick up my grammar game for ya in the future. But I shall forever call you "that guy" cuz only that guy would tell someone you're wrong by 200 yards on a whole season and make a big math equation out of it ;)

 

Stoney....

 

Your grammar is fine.    And while I do try to take an intelligent approach to posting, I can make the occasional "brain fart" post that I regret like anyone else can.   I've made a few here in my 22 months on this website.

 

That said....

 

I didn't tell TKnight he was wrong over 200 yards.   If you look at my original post again and the others I made in the thread, I gave a range of 1100-1300 and the 1300 was very generous.   It's likely going to be closer to the lower number.   If TK is off by 250 yards that's being off by 300 yards that's 20%,  not an insignificant total.    By the way,  I like TKnight.   Good guy.

 

And this is not a big deal, and believe it or not I'm not trying to make it a big deal...  I'm only trying to create some reasonable expectations for everyone....

 

Really, that's all......   nothing more.

[SteelCityColt]

Tell us more almighty Jesus. How many fingers am I holding up? I'll give you time. I'm sure u can figure out cuz it seems like you have some serious mass in your brain. What are your based calculations on Vick Ballard?? How many yards do you forsee in the upcoming season for him coming off knee surgery? I predict 700 but I'm probly wrong right? Ur probly thinking more along the lines of 690. Hey, you're that guy.

Nope, you're THAT guy I'm afraid.

[SteelCityColt]

Stoney....

 

Your grammar is fine.    And while I do try to take an intelligent approach to posting, I can make the occasional "brain fart" post that I regret like anyone else can.   I've made a few here in my 22 months on this website.

 

That said....

 

I didn't tell TKnight he was wrong over 200 yards.   If you look at my original post again and the others I made in the thread, I gave a range of 1100-1300 and the 1300 was very generous.   It's likely going to be closer to the lower number.   If TK is off by 250 yards that's being off by 300 yards that's 20%,  not an insignificant total.    By the way,  I like TKnight.   Good guy.

 

And this is not a big deal, and believe it or not I'm not trying to make it a big deal...  I'm only trying to create some reasonable expectations for everyone....

 

Really, that's all......   nothing more.

Such a well constructed post in vain I fear.

[Cynjin]

Dealing with a teenager here...

More like pre teen. It seems like the offseason brings out some real winners on these boards.

[crazycolt1]

If Fleener learns how to block, then we are going to provide all sorts of fits for opposing defenses if our TE's chip and then go out for passes. 

 

There's no Defense in the league that can stop Wayne, Hilton, Nicks, Allen and Fleener at the same time. 

That's what they said about Thomas, Thomas, Decker and Welker too?   

[NewColtsFan]

Such a well constructed post in vain I fear.

 

You get that same feeling too?!?     Good.

 

I was wondering if it was just me?!

 

Oh well.....

[AntonMcG]

OMG I feel like you already know so much about me! Nah I'm not gonna click on ignore cuz I'm not a woman, plus where's all the fun in that? Well now that we've met we can both embrace future posts from eachother. I can tell that you like to be an intelligent poster so I'll try to pick up my grammar game for ya in the future. But I shall forever call you "that guy" cuz only that guy would tell someone you're wrong by 200 yards on a whole season and make a big math equation out of it ;)

 

Stop posting.

[YOUR GM]

Stop posting.

L mao

[TKnight24]

That's what they said about Thomas, Thomas, Decker and Welker too?

But Seattle didn't stop our offense last I checked. So imagine our offense with Allen & new addition Nicks

[Stoney]

You'll have to excuse my brother.. He gets on my name and post too and is a little immature by the looks of it. My bad dude

[Stoney]

Stop posting.

Ok..Wasn't me that posted all that, but regardless you're not gonna tell me to do anything...lol so you can chill

[seeblu]

As I look at our team, waiting for the NFL draft has me excited.  Surely Grigs will pick up 2 or 3 O linemen, looking for a hidden gem or two.  I know rookies will have a steep learning curve, but with all the weapons Luck has now, if he gets time to look over his options, this team is gonna be awesome on offense. 

[NewColtsFan]

You'll have to excuse my brother.. He gets on my name and post too and is a little immature by the looks of it. My bad dude

 

 

There's no need to excuse TKnight for anything he did or wrote.    He didn't do anything wrong.

 

Nor do I think you should be the one to toss around words like "immature" to other posters.    Stones and glass houses.....

 

As the Colts consider themselves a family oriented franchise, I like this website for the mostly friendly nature of the majority of the posters. 

 

There are a number of posters here who view fan message boards as something close to blood sport.   Not only must they be proven right,  they must crush or insult whoever disagrees with them.    

 

That's not what I'm here for.     I'm not interested in fighting anyone here.     I like reading other opinions and views here and I hope other people like reading mine.    Otherwise.....   I won't waste my time in hand to hand combat exchanging posts back and forth trying to see who comes out victorious.    

 

Sorry.....   I guess this is a long way of saying I hope we can keep things here civil and pleasant.    

No reason not to....

 

We're all pulling for the same team.     Go Colts!    

[jvan1973]

There's no need to excuse TKnight for anything he did or wrote. He didn't do anything wrong.

Nor do I think you should be the one to toss around words like "immature" to other posters. Stones and glass houses.....

As the Colts consider themselves a family oriented franchise, I like this website for the mostly friendly nature of the majority of the posters.

There are a number of posters here who view fan message boards as something close to blood sport. Not only must they be proven right, they must crush or insult whoever disagrees with them.

That's not what I'm here for. I'm not interested in fighting anyone here. I like reading other opinions and views here and I hope other people like reading mine. Otherwise..... I won't waste my time in hand to hand combat exchanging posts back and forth trying to see who comes out victorious.

Sorry..... I guess this is a long way of saying I hope we can keep things here civil and pleasant.

No reason not to....

We're all pulling for the same team. Go Colts!

i think you misunderstood his excuse