A. Q. Shipley traded

[CanuckColt]

Holmes+Satele+draft pick > Holmes +Shipley

Maybe...but Satele is a liability in the pass game...

hopefully Satele becomes the backup only...and does not see the field much if at all.

[1959Colts]

^{Looks like another season of complaining about Satele again.}

[Coltscodeblue]

In Grigson I trust!!!!!

 

Go Colts!!!!!

[BrentMc11]

Re: McGlynn those quotes are in season...last season, about a known stop gap player.  He was talking to fans about positive elements.  That is part of his job, and I'm certain he does like those qualities about McGlynn  Not sure that has anything to do with his loyalty moving forward given that he just drafted right over him.

 

Re: Satele.  I know you know your stuff, so I respect your opinion.  However, the list of talented players signed to reasonable contracts every year that go on to have injury plagued seasons is pretty long around the league.  Satele is on it.  Most of those players don't get cut until at least 2 years in.  Doesn't make them mistakes, just part of the business.  Satele had segments of excellent play last year amidst the struggles.  Probably a talent worth seeing more of.

 

Re: Justice.  He was probably the most brilliant stop gap move of all.  $1.5 million and we got our money's worth despite the injuries.  We are better now, because we can afford to be, but we couldn't afford to be last year.  Justice fit perfectly.

McGlynn sucks....needs to go....Chappell also is a pretty good insider with reliable info...and he mentioned it again before the draft.  Amazingly I have seen some sites showing McGnynn as the starter again.  Puke Puke.

 

Satele needs to quit bobbing his head and giving away pass vs the run...amazed that it was not corrected in season.  I will root for him because I am a Colt fan and will knowledge when he does something right or wrong.  Loved Shipley's blocking against the run.

 

Justice:  Injuries cost him any chances for it being "remotely close" to what you call a "brilliant stop gap move."  When he was not injured he played pretty well.  The games he cam e back after injury simply were not fun to watch.  I may have agreed with you here if he was on the field for 16 regular season games.

 

It looks as if we are not going to budge in our views.  I will continue to consider Satele a mistake and McGlynn must go.  

[ztboiler]

Where are you getting "limited talent" from??

Just an opinion....he doesn't move very well.  He does many things well, but when you don't move well for a C, most teams will keep looking for another to develop.  I saw us try to pull him a few times, and he cannot consistently reach his target. 

[Colts_Fan12]

McGlynn sucks....needs to go....Chappell also is a pretty good insider with reliable info...and he mentioned it again before the draft. Amazingly I have seen some sites showing McGnynn as the starter again. Puke Puke.

Satele needs to quit bobbing his head and giving away pass vs the run...amazed that it was not corrected in season. I will root for him because I am a Colt fan and will knowledge when he does something right or wrong. Loved Shipley's blocking against the run.

Justice: Injuries cost him any chances for it being "remotely close" to what you call a "brilliant stop gap move." When he was not injured he played pretty well. The games he cam e back after injury simply were not fun to watch. I may have agreed with you here if he was on the field for 16 regular season games.

It looks as if we are not going to budge in our views. I will continue to consider Satele a mistake and McGlynn must go.

I back that statement Brent you have my support they both SUCK

[ztboiler]

McGlynn sucks....needs to go....Chappell also is a pretty good insider with reliable info...and he mentioned it again before the draft.  Amazingly I have seen some sites showing McGnynn as the starter again.  Puke Puke.

 

Satele needs to quit bobbing his head and giving away pass vs the run...amazed that it was not corrected in season.  I will root for him because I am a Colt fan and will knowledge when he does something right or wrong.  Loved Shipley's blocking against the run.

 

Justice:  Injuries cost him any chances for it being "remotely close" to what you call a "brilliant stop gap move."  When he was not injured he played pretty well.  The games he cam e back after injury simply were not fun to watch.  I may have agreed with you here if he was on the field for 16 regular season games.

 

It looks as if we are not going to budge in our views.  I will continue to consider Satele a mistake and McGlynn must go.  

You know we agree on McGlynn...but consider where we were last year before you settle on Satele and Justice as mistakes.  Satele doesn't have to be our long term center in order to not be a mistake.  Justice gave us every bit of what you could hope for in a one year player.  If he'd played any better or stayed healthy, he'd have been given a new deal.  That is good value for $1.5 million on a cap strapped team.  In fact we needed all 3 of those guys last year to patch it together.  It would have  been great if they'd played so well as to be long term solutions, but that was never expected or intended.

[CanuckColt]

^{Looks like another season of complaining about Satele again.}

And with da## good reason. 

And as a side effect we get to keep McGlynn as a backup C/G...another bonehead decision.

[CanuckColt]

...

 

It looks as if we are not going to budge in our views.  I will continue to consider Satele a mistake and McGlynn must go.  

Absolutely correct. 

It looks like even Grigson is fully capable of making political decisions over football decisions.

I thought those kind of things left with the Polians.

Welcome to another year of Satele and McGlynn.....YUCK!

[The Peytonator]

I'm willing to give Grigson the benefit of the doubt but....

 

1. A lot of people seem to think that since people are disagreeing with the move, they are 'screaming for Grigson's head'. That is not the case, not a single person has said he should be fired over this. It is a simple disagreement. We don't have a whole lot to talk about right now, so this thread is obviously going to last a few pages.

 

2. Let's say we get a 6th round pick for him. Yay for us, we get to draft someone that will likely be out of the league in 3 years. Let's not pretend we're getting a 3rd rounder for him. Sure there are lots of good players in the 6th/7th round, but for every Alfonzo Dennard, you get 100 Tim Fugger's.

 

3. EVERYBODY, and I really mean that, felt Shipley significantly outplayed Satele last year. We can say, 'well the coaches obviously saw things differently'. I think even the coaches knew who was performing better, but there is a certain amount of politics that go into this game. If one guy gets a 3Y/10M contract, and the other guy is some camp fodder scrub, coaches would obviously rather see the $10 million man win the starting job. The $10 million man will be given every chance to play as long as he's healthy enough to do so, regardless of who the better player has been.

 

Bottom line is, Shipley played better last year. Maybe it was because Satele was hurt, I don't know. I don't think Satele is terrible, and I don't think anyone is saying Shipley is anything better than average. Shipley is younger, cheaper, and probably hasn't hit his ceiling yet, and that is why I'd rather have him on the roster than Satele. Nobody was probably seeking a trade for Satele considering his contract, so I understand that. Also, I don't see why people think Holmes is the immediate starter. He has to get stronger, quicker, and learn how the professional game is played. I disagree with this move, one of about 4 or 5 moves Grigson has made that I did disagree with, but that's okay. I hope he proves me wrong.

[unitaswestand]

I liked Shipley better.  But maybe the idea was that Holmes will eventually be the starter and McGlynn (who I think sucks) can play center as well.  So maybe the idea is to get rid of both Shipley and Satelte.

[Superman]

Bottom line is, Shipley played better last year.

 

Perhaps Shipley played better, but it's not like he was some stalwart blocker for us. Everyone roots for the little guy, I get it, but there's nothing special about AQ Shipley. We drafted Holmes with the idea that he'll be our starting center eventually, so it's not like Shipley figures into the long term plans either. We traded a low level asset for another low level asset, and some are acting like the future of the team has been compromised. To me, it's rather inconsequential. I've never been on the Shipley bandwagon.

 

Add in the fact that Satele was hurt practically all last season, and there's still reason to believe that he can perform better than he did last year.

 

But this move is really about Khaled Holmes, more than it is about Shipley or Satele.

[coltsfanatic24]

If Holmes was going to start over Satele then to me it is worse.....he has 2 years left on his contract and sucked last year.  Ballard was able to find holes with Shipley in there. 

 

We averaged over 100 yards per game with Shipley at center.  Adding Thomas and Thornton would have made him even better.

 

I guess this means McAful starts at right guard too.  The ONLY thing I like about this trade....is NOTHING!

 

Holmes is going to be solid....I was looking at nice depth to start at guard and center.  He WILL be the backup center.  Satele starts.  URRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!        :cuss:       !!!!!

 

Satele:  fix the 'give the play away head bob!!!!"  It is a shame nobody wanted your contract!

 

Joe Gilbert:  It is your job as a coach to fix "said head bob"  If not Luck is TOAST!

I think we all can agree that Shipley was better then Satele but A.Q wasn't in our plans long term Holmes is. We can't cut Satele until after this year because it would be a 5 mil cap hit. Trading Shipley had alot to do with how much they really like Holmes and they see him as the starting center for the future.  If Shipley plays well with the Ravens and gets a fair amount of starts our pick could be as high as a 5th rounder in a very deep draft next year.

[chad72]

Not happy about it because I felt he had more upside than Satele. Plus, I felt he had a mean streak that showed whenever he took the field, did not see that with Satele as much.  Is it reverse Jeff Saturday karma with the Ravens? At least he was released by the Ravens as an UDFA and we got him with no draft pick loss but in this case, at least we get something back.

 

Still, not happy!!! He wasn't irreplaceable but I do think he would have been better than both centers if given a chance to be the starter.

[Drewbacca]

For what it's worth, look at Samsons tape from Miami and Oakland, he was a pretty good center...he played last year hurt, which is why his play was down.

 

Shipley was nothing more than average at best, and that's his ceiling. Samson has higher potential as does Holmes.

 

Trade a backup center and it's as if the world collapsed down in Indy.

[CanuckColt]

Satele was a mistake and McGlynn needs to go.

Cut your losses Grigs. Take your lumps and go out and replace them and improve the team.

[chad72]

Satele was a mistake and McGlynn needs to go.

Cut your losses Grigs. Take your lumps and go out and replace them and improve the team.

 

That is the first thought that came to my mind. Most GMs will be a bit partial to the draft picks and FA signings of their choice, during their term.

[NewColtsFan]

Satele's weight has been listed as around 300 since he came to Indy

 

Perhaps you're right.

 

But I've seen other websites refer to him as 285.    I know I didn't pull it out of thin air...

 

Let me put it this way,   I don't think Satele is 299 if he stepped on a scale fully dressed in game day uniform including cleats, helmet and pads.

 

What some refer to as the 'eyeball' test tells me that.    Satele looks tiny out there.   Certainly much smaller than AQS did, and he was 305.    Does Satele look 5 pounds less to you?   Not even close to me.

 

But,  your mileage may vary.....

[BrentMc11]

You know we agree on McGlynn...but consider where we were last year before you settle on Satele and Justice as mistakes.  Satele doesn't have to be our long term center in order to not be a mistake.  Justice gave us every bit of what you could hope for in a one year player.  If he'd played any better or stayed healthy, he'd have been given a new deal.  That is good value for $1.5 million on a cap strapped team.  In fact we needed all 3 of those guys last year to patch it together.  It would have  been great if they'd played so well as to be long term solutions, but that was never expected or intended.

Justice was strong on the pass blocking for the most part....not so much on the run.  Working next to the 'Land of McLost' i can see how.  I agreed above on the injuries.  We are OK on Justice except for the "brilliant part."  For the money a good deal.

 

I liked the Satele deal, but he was way below expectations.  As I say above with his contract he WILL be the starter.  I hope Holmes is as good as SOME say he is in case of injury....for goodness sake...or should I say Lucks?  

[MTC]

Well, I thought he had a better performance than Satele but we can't go with three centers going forward. Best of luck AQ!

[coltsguy510]

So what was the conditional pick?

[BrentMc11]

Perhaps Shipley played better, but it's not like he was some stalwart blocker for us. Everyone roots for the little guy, I get it, but there's nothing special about AQ Shipley. We drafted Holmes with the idea that he'll be our starting center eventually, so it's not like Shipley figures into the long term plans either. We traded a low level asset for another low level asset, and some are acting like the future of the team has been compromised. To me, it's rather inconsequential. I've never been on the Shipley bandwagon.

 

Add in the fact that Satele was hurt practically all last season, and there's still reason to believe that he can perform better than he did last year.

 

But this move is really about Khaled Holmes, more than it is about Shipley or Satele.

Quite obvious that you have not been on the Shipley bandwagon.  I will say it again....I HOPE Holmes is ready to back up Satele or take over that spot.  I will root like heck for them.  I hope this change does not burn us.

 

Anybody that did not see the difference in the running game with Shipley in there was in the restroom or grabbing their favorite beverage.  Is Holmes the center of the future?  I guess we will find out.

 

I saw a "little" pudgy guy from North Carolina nobody cared for as the 11th rated center who is going straight to the Colts Ring of Honor.  Saturday was considered camp fodder at one point, and became a fan favorite   Shipley became a fan favorite too for one reason:  He out-played Satele on the field.

[MTC]

So what was the conditional pick?

 

Probably a 6th or 7th. Any pick is good considering how many prospects I wanted in the late rounds.

[BrentMc11]

I think we all can agree that Shipley was better then Satele but A.Q wasn't in our plans long term Holmes is. We can't cut Satele until after this year because it would be a 5 mil cap hit. Trading Shipley had alot to do with how much they really like Holmes and they see him as the starting center for the future.  If Shipley plays well with the Ravens and gets a fair amount of starts our pick could be as high as a 5th rounder in a very deep draft next year.

Darned the cap hit  

 

I want what gives the Colts the best chance to win....NOW.  Shipley wins by a landside over Satele in my eyes, and it seems you as well....and a whole lot of others.  As I said above to Superman, I hope this move does not burn our chances.  I also hope Holmes is a beast

[Superman]

Quite obvious that you have not been on the Shipley bandwagon.  I will say it again....I HOPE Holmes is ready to back up Satele or take over that spot.  I will root like heck for them.  I hope this change does not burn us.

 

Anybody that did not see the difference in the running game with Shipley in there was in the restroom or grabbing their favorite beverage.  Is Holmes the center of the future?  I guess we will find out.

 

I saw a "little" pudgy guy from North Carolina nobody cared for as the 11th rated center who is going straight to the Colts Ring of Honor.  Saturday was considered camp fodder at one point, and became a fan favorite   Shipley became a fan favorite too for one reason:  He out-played Satele on the field.

 

This move suggests that we drafted him to be.

 

All I'm saying is that there have been a lot of words about how much better Shipley was than Satele last year, and whether that's accurate or not, Shipley wasn't exactly anchoring our offensive line. The line play was still below par, with or without Shipley. So my feelings aren't all that hurt over the fact that he won't be here anymore. He wasn't that important to us. JMO

 

And again I'll say, I believe Satele's injury held him back last year. When we signed him, I went back and watched some of his games from Oakland and Miami, and either his skills completely deteriorated in one season, or something else was wrong. I think Satele is better than he showed in 2012.

[Deathiltis]

Lol the immense love for AQ is ridiculous

[BrentMc11]

This move suggests that we drafted him to be.

 

All I'm saying is that there have been a lot of words about how much better Shipley was than Satele last year, and whether that's accurate or not, Shipley wasn't exactly anchoring our offensive line. The line play was still below par, with or without Shipley. So my feelings aren't all that hurt over the fact that he won't be here anymore. He wasn't that important to us. JMO

 

And again I'll say, I believe Satele's injury held him back last year. When we signed him, I went back and watched some of his games from Oakland and Miami, and either his skills completely deteriorated in one season, or something else was wrong. I think Satele is better than he showed in 2012.

I hope you are right......

[Rebelknight]

I have heard that if Shipley makes the probowl we get the ravens  next 10 #1's..

 

 

I am joking of course..

[BrentMc11]

Lol the immense love for AQ is ridiculous

I guess 95% of us are stupid, and Death by taxes is not......          I know I am pretty stupid when it comes to geometry and chemistry, but I can tell when someone is outplayed....injury or not.

[jshipp23]

trading Boldin for a sixth was brilliant?

When he is 35 and making 8 million and you don't have the cap room it's better than releasing him,,,,I'll never question Ozzie Newsome he is proven..

[#12]

Yes people are allowed to have an opinion, but it's the certainty with which some speak that is annoying. Just go look at the thread Dustin started which had a link to last years draft thread.

I do get annoyed on baseball forums where stat geeks have delusions of grandeur, but I don't get that sense here.  If anything, Colt fans are a little too deferential at times.  I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder - all in how you read it.  Just fans giving their opinions.  No big deal. 

[ztboiler]

Justice was strong on the pass blocking for the most part....not so much on the run.  Working next to the 'Land of McLost' i can see how.  I agreed above on the injuries.  We are OK on Justice except for the "brilliant part."  For the money a good deal.

 

I liked the Satele deal, but he was way below expectations.  As I say above with his contract he WILL be the starter.  I hope Holmes is as good as SOME say he is in case of injury....for goodness sake...or should I say Lucks?  

OK, maybe brilliant was going a little too far.....fair enough,  I'll meet you at good - we're close now!  I also completely understand the disappointment in Satele.  We all hoped he'd solidify a position when following a legend.  For a little perspective, his contract average is the same as Donald Thomas, it's just structured differently and not so cap friendly in years 2 and 3.   Grigson did not pay Satele a contract commensurate with the level of expectations we all seem to have - or even the kind of contract he'd have earned if he was a sure thing long term commitment.  It's mid-level prove it money by NFL standards.

[BrentMc11]

OK, maybe brilliant was going a little too far.....fair enough,  I'll meet you at good - we're close now!  I also completely understand the disappointment in Satele.  We all hoped he'd solidify a position when following a legend.  For a little perspective, his contract average is the same as Donald Thomas, it's just structured differently and not so cap friendly in years 2 and 3.   Grigson did not pay Satele a contract commensurate with the level of expectations we all seem to have - or even the kind of contract he'd have earned if he was a sure thing long term commitment.  It's mid-level prove it money by NFL standards.

We are closer Z!  I knew we would get there somehow.  Grigs was a little more limited with him $$$$$$ last year.  I will root for Satele and Holmes.

[Superman]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/76973/colts-trade-of-a-q-shipley-is-fine-by-me

 

Spot on.

[chad72]

I do get annoyed on baseball forums where stat geeks have delusions of grandeur, but I don't get that sense here.  If anything, Colt fans are a little too deferential at times.  I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder - all in how you read it.  Just fans giving their opinions.  No big deal. 

 

I agree!!!

 

Some fans act like other fans on this forum should be great talent evaluators just because they speak with conviction!!! We all know we are fans because we sit with fans, some a bit more educated than the others but nevertheless all of us don't have same kind of credentials that an NFL GM has.

 

So, all those hindsight 20/20 draft threads, every single "you were wrong in hindsight" opinion does not mean much to me. We give our opinions based on what we have seen and what we know which will always come up short when it comes to a GM's know how. So, if we express displeasure or disagreement, it does not mean we are calling for the GM's head. It still is an opinion, no matter how much conviction you say it with.

 

The fact is Shipley is gone, and the fact is the Colts management obviously felt the options they had in hand were worthy enough for them to make that move. The opinion is....have at it....

[BrentMc11]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/76973/colts-trade-of-a-q-shipley-is-fine-by-me

 

Spot on.

According to your philosophy of not liking Shipley.  I hope Holmes is good enough to start now....was hoping to win this year.....

 

I guess those of us who liked the play and mean streak of Shipley need to stand down to Paul Kuharsky.  He must be checking in on our forum....only about 95% like Shipley....believe it or not.......

[Superman]

According to your philosophy of not liking Shipley.  I hope Holmes is good enough to start now....was hoping to win this year.....

 

I guess those of us who liked the play and mean streak of Shipley need to stand down to Paul Kuharsky.  He must be checking in on our forum....only about 95% like Shipley....believe it or not.......

 

I don't dislike Shipley, neither does Kuharsky. I just don't think he was very important to our chances in 2013. Again, JMO. I could totally be wrong.

 

My favorite part of Kuharsky's post:

 

 

Yes, Shipley was better in his five starts last season than Samson Satele was.

 

...

 

Being better than Satele last year wasn’t some giant achievement. I don’t mean that to demean Shipley -- I respect the work he did.

 

[BrentMc11]

I don't dislike Shipley, neither does Kuharsky. I just don't think he was very important to our chances in 2013. Again, JMO. I could totally be wrong.

 

My favorite part of Kuharsky's post:

My favorite part as well.  

 

Like it or not, you will see me behind Satele and Holmes starting now....I will always root the guys who make this team on...win or lose!!!

[LockeDown]

Shipley just wasn't Polynesian enough.  There I said it. 

[NewEra]

So fans are not allowed to have an opinion? Im feeling to lazy to go back over every post from the beginning of last year till now but I bet I can find at least 1 or 2 that shows that you have not agreed with all of Grigsons moves, I could probably even go back and find one that you said about Sateles negative play

I liked Shipley out there over satele myself. I just think the trade makes sense. I think the trade shows what they see in Holmes not in satele. We also don't know the behind the scenes talk and production. I'm going to trust in Grigson to make the right moves for the betterment of the team.