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A. Q. Shipley traded


Marcio James

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I'm certainly no cap expert in anyway,  shape or form....     but I don't believe the $4.8 Mill figure is anywhere close to correct.

 

I've seen stories about cutting Satele and I've never seen that figure mentioned like that....   not even close to that...

 

Here are his contract details from Spotrac.com

 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/samson-satele/

 

 

The webpage is talking about $2.1 Mill and change as the Dead Cap hit if we cut him now...    that's his pro-rated bonus for 2013 and 2014.    But that's all.

 

 

 

I thought that I read that his 2.7 mill salary for 2013 was guaranteed. The link you have shows him getting 5 mill guaranteed and that would make sense if the 2.7 base this year was guaranteed. I've just done a little searching and I find nothing saying the 2.7 is guaranteed. If not , it would make my 4.8 figure way off as you suggest. Just having a difficult time figuring how they could have 5 mill guaranteed from the link we both looked at. I did find another source that said it was 4 mill guaranteed. That might be correct as it could be the 3,2 signing bonus , the 2012 base and maybe 100k misc bonus in 2012. So looks like the 2,7 base may not be guaranteed , which would make just he prorated bonus as you suggest.

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I would not have hesitated to cut Satele and admit my mistake with Satele....A 7th is not good for a center that produced well for us.  I have to disagree   I may be wrong to cut with the cap hit, but we will only have Satele this year IMO anyway.  Good for Shipley he gets a chance elsewhere.  As I said before, I think he is Baltimore's Jeff Saturday...hoping so.

 

I have been wrong before, and I may be wrong here, but as I have said throughout this thread....I will root Satele on when he starts.  I will root Holmes on when he starts.  I will root the Colts on whomever is on the field.  I will also give them  :cuss: when they play poorly...will give them  :thmup:  :thmup: for a job well done...because first and foremost I am a  :coltslogo: fan-atic!!!

 

 

Sure.. and I can see where you are coming from. This is what makes the world go round and GM's aren't 100% accurate. Your guy just got caught in a trap. Grigson wants to groom Holmes and he's going to be the No 2 center. So either Satale or Shipley goes. So now it's if Grigson wants Satlale and a 7th or Shipley. I doubt Satale brings compensation with his high base salary.

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Sure.. and I can see where you are coming from. This is what makes the world go round and GM's aren't 100% accurate. Your guy just got caught in a trap. Grigson wants to groom Holmes and he's going to be the No 2 center. So either Satale or Shipley goes. So now it's if Grigson wants Satlale and a 7th or Shipley. I doubt Satale brings compensation with his high base salary.

I totally agree with the bolded above.  Satele is still only 28, and Shipley will be 27 in a week and a half....so age did not have anything to do with it.  

 

Shipley played better than Satele no matter how hard the now almost 9% on this thread argue.  So either is was the bolded above....nothing for Satele and the salary, Satele was still seen as a better center by the coaches, or Grigson is not going to admit mistakes....

 

Kevin Bowen has a nice article on the rookie camp to the right  'Colts Rookie Camp Day 2.'  Looks like Khaled holes is learning fast!!!

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I totally agree with the bolded above.  Satele is still only 28, and Shipley will be 27 in a week and a half....so age did not have anything to do with it.  

 

Shipley played better than Satele no matter how hard the now almost 9% on this thread argue.  So either is was the bolded above....nothing for Satele and the salary, Satele was still seen as a better center by the coaches, or Grigson is not going to admit mistakes....

 

Kevin Bowen has a nice article on the rookie camp to the right  'Colts Rookie Camp Day 2.'  Looks like Khaled holes is learning fast!!!

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect a GM that "wheels and deals" as much as Grigson to not admit mistakes. If that's the case , we're in real trouble as the guy makes multiple moves. If we look at the little bit of a sample we have , this wouldn't appear to be the case. He cut Zib in a hurry and he's kinda has set McKinney up to be a cut. 

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I wouldn't expect a GM that "wheels and deals" as much as Grigson to not admit mistakes. If that's the case , we're in real trouble as the guy makes multiple moves. If we look at the little bit of a sample we have , this wouldn't appear to be the case. He cut Zib in a hurry and he's kinda has set McKinney up to be a cut. 

I was giving some options....we will now if McAwful sticks.... :spit: He has been known to like him...and he is awful...I am wih ya on Zibby and Big Mac!  I see a thread started Chapman with the first unit...he would be in rookie camp wouldn't he :)  Just kidding.....but true...:)

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I was giving some options....we will now if McAwful sticks.... :spit: He has been known to like him...and he is awful...I am wih ya on Zibby and Big Mac!  I see a thread started Chapman with the first unit...he would be in rookie camp wouldn't he :)  Just kidding.....but true... :)

 

 

But it's not every guy in the NFL that has the versatility to play both guard spots and center and stink up all three terribly.

 

You're confusing me on the Chapman part. I don't think Chapman is in the rookie camp and it would be a really stupid tweet if that's what it did refer to. So I'm thinking they had some kind of participation when all the players were at camp. What's your thinking...

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But it's not every guy in the NFL that has the versatility to play both guard spots and center and stink up all three terribly.

 

You're confusing me on the Chapman part. I don't think Chapman is in the rookie camp and it would be a really stupid tweet if that's what it did refer to. So I'm thinking they had some kind of participation when all the players were at camp. What's your thinking...

HA HA.....

 

It is a thread someone posted....on Manusky....it was on the right for a while...lets go look at it...I know Sambrano and Whalen were at rookie camp...read that I believe in the Colts.com News section of the forum.

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HA HA.....

 

It is a thread someone posted....on Manusky....it was on the right for a while...lets go look at it...I know Sambrano and Whalen were at rookie camp...read that I believe in the Colts.com News section of the forum

 

 

 

Yea .. I read through it also. I really have no idea which it is. I know the players were in the voluntary camp and most attended. But woud they be running anything that would have a first and 2nd team ? If Chapman is at the rookie mini camp , which is I guess possible , of coarse he would be the "starting" NT and the tweet would be pretty stupid . So I wonder which it is....

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I am not really 100 percent sure ether way on what Grigson really thinks of Satele, On 1 hand he did get injured last year but he was not good before that, part of that was he was blocking for 3 his position and the 2 Guard spots that left there pads at home on a weekly basis. I dont think Satele was quite as bad as he showed last year but I dont think he is significantly better, Even if the idea is for Holmes to take over sooner rather then later that still leaves an issue with depth at Center because if Holmes goes down then your right back to square 1 with a Center that dont need to be starting and no depth now behind him although Mcglynn would be an option

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HA HA.....

 

It is a thread someone posted....on Manusky....it was on the right for a while...lets go look at it...I know Sambrano and Whalen were at rookie camp...read that I believe in the Colts.com News section of the forum.

 

 

 

Another post from that thread and I tend to think it's correct...

 

 

 

 

The Rookies are at Rookie Camp

 

The Vets are at Workouts, Chapman is with the Vets

 

Yes, it's busy up there in Indianapolis

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I would not have hesitated to cut Satele and admit my mistake with Satele....A 7th is not good for a center that produced well for us. I have to disagree I may be wrong to cut with the cap hit, but we will only have Satele this year IMO anyway. Good for Shipley he gets a chance elsewhere. As I said before, I think he is Baltimore's Jeff Saturday...hoping so.

I have been wrong before, and I may be wrong here, but as I have said throughout this thread....I will root Satele on when he starts. I will root Holmes on when he starts. I will root the Colts on whomever is on the field. I will also give them :cuss: when they play poorly...will give them :thmup::thmup: for a job well done...because first and foremost I am a :coltslogo: fan-atic!!!

I'd rather take my chances with a center who's had some sort of success verses a center who has been a back up since he's been in the league. I'd rather have Satele on the team since we drafted a rookie center. I think he will look much better with better hairs play. Same could be said about Shipley. Just saying I would rather have the guy who had one off year verses the one who looked good in a few games.
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Yea .. I read through it also. I really have no idea which it is. I know the players were in the voluntary camp and most attended. But woud they be running anything that would have a first and 2nd team ? If Chapman is at the rookie mini camp , which is I guess possible , of coarse he would be the "starting" NT and the tweet would be pretty stupid . So I wonder which it is....

I just read Kevin Bowen said Chap and Harnish are not there.....Dustin wrote the comment.  It IS the 3 week OTAs.

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I'd rather take my chances with a center who's had some sort of success verses a center who has been a back up since he's been in the league. I'd rather have Satele on the team since we drafted a rookie center. I think he will look much better with better hairs play. Same could be said about Shipley. Just saying I would rather have the guy who had one off year verses the one who looked good in a few games.

I thought we agreed on thing :)  Just kidding....I am going to root Satele on.....hoping he is healthy and shows us why Grigs wanted him.

 

I think we have Holmes as our center of the future....needs to gain some strength.

 

I am coming to grips with it....just liked the way Shipley played, and Satele made me mad... :ticked:  :flaming:  :hairout:(The last guy is not Satele :)  

 

samson_satele-620x300.jpg

 

That hair aint going nowhere :)  I wish he was as mean as he looks on the field!!! 

:funny:

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If done before June 1,  I believe it's only the Dead Cap hit the Colts take on.    After that date,  the penalty for cutting Satele is greater (though I'm not sure how much?)

 

We need someone like Superman or FJC who understand the CBA to offer some wisdom here....

 

 

Pretty sure it would just be the combination or his 2013 guaranteed base (2.7) and the pro rated signing bonus left .. 1,066,667 X 2 or 2,133,334. Not sure which of the 3 100K misc bonuses was guaranteed. But 2.7 plus 2.1 is pretty close.  4.8 is the cap hit if taken all in 2013.

 

 

I'm certainly no cap expert in anyway,  shape or form....     but I don't believe the $4.8 Mill figure is anywhere close to correct.

 

I've seen stories about cutting Satele and I've never seen that figure mentioned like that....   not even close to that...

 

Here are his contract details from Spotrac.com

 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/samson-satele/

 

 

The webpage is talking about $2.1 Mill and change as the Dead Cap hit if we cut him now...    that's his pro-rated bonus for 2013 and 2014.    But that's all.

 

http://nyj.scout.com/a.z?s=65&p=9&c=2&cid=1170363&nid=5775460&fhn=1

 

This is the best breakdown I've seen of Satele's contract. The guaranteed money is $5m total. That includes the signing bonus of $3.2m, plus a workout bonus in 2012 of $100k, plus his $700k base salary in 2012, plus an additional $1m of his base salary in 2013, which is guaranteed for injury only (meaning if he gets hurt, we still have to pay the $1m in 2013).

 

So if we released him for performance reasons prior to the start of the 2013 regular season, the cap penalty would be $2.13m. That could be split evenly between 2013 and 2014, $1.065m each year, if we chose to designate it as a post June 1 release.

 

If we release him because he's unable to perform, the cap penalty would be $3.13m. That could be split with $2.065m in 2013, and $1.065m in 2014. Usually a post June 1 release allows the team to push at least half of the cap penalty into the next league year, but because the $1m guarantee is for 2013 base salary, it has to be accounted for in 2013. 

 

The date of a potential release would matter as well, because Satele is due a $100k workout bonus in 2013 and in 2014. So if we release him after he's met the conditions for the workout bonus, then the cap penalty would be increased by $100k.

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http://nyj.scout.com/a.z?s=65&p=9&c=2&cid=1170363&nid=5775460&fhn=1

 

This is the best breakdown I've seen of Satele's contract. The guaranteed money is $5m total. That includes the signing bonus of $3.2m, plus a workout bonus in 2012 of $100k, plus his $700k base salary in 2012, plus an additional $1m of his base salary in 2013, which is guaranteed for injury only (meaning if he gets hurt, we still have to pay the $1m in 2013).

 

So if we released him for performance reasons prior to the start of the 2013 regular season, the cap penalty would be $2.13m. That could be split evenly between 2013 and 2014, $1.065m each year, if we chose to designate it as a post June 1 release.

 

If we release him because he's unable to perform, the cap penalty would be $3.13m. That could be split with $2.065m in 2013, and $1.065m in 2014. Usually a post June 1 release allows the team to push at least half of the cap penalty into the next league year, but because the $1m guarantee is for 2013 base salary, it has to be accounted for in 2013. 

 

The date of a potential release would matter as well, because Satele is due a $100k workout bonus in 2013 and in 2014. So if we release him after he's met the conditions for the workout bonus, then the cap penalty would be increased by $100k.

 

 

Thanks....   I knew you'd be the right guy!     I knew I liked you for some strange reason....   but couldn't quite put my finger on it...    then,  I looked it up in the new Friendship CBA...   and here's what I found out...

 

The two posters shall remain friends as long as the two parties (you and me) issue the appropriate number of 'likes' or   :thmup:   on a weekly/monthly basis.   The are no guaranteed number of likes,  or   :thmup:   but, should the friendship end for whatever reason,  either due to posting performance, or change of allegiance to a new team,  then the 'cap hit' on likes and   :thmup:   will be accelerated.   Unless the party who remains true to the Colts wishes to spread the 'cap hit' out over two seasons.

 

I think you get the idea....   it goes on and on with lots of lawyer's language,  but I think the rules of this internet friendship are clear....   

 

Thanks again for your assistance in this matter....      :thmup:

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http://nyj.scout.com/a.z?s=65&p=9&c=2&cid=1170363&nid=5775460&fhn=1

 

This is the best breakdown I've seen of Satele's contract. The guaranteed money is $5m total. That includes the signing bonus of $3.2m, plus a workout bonus in 2012 of $100k, plus his $700k base salary in 2012, plus an additional $1m of his base salary in 2013, which is guaranteed for injury only (meaning if he gets hurt, we still have to pay the $1m in 2013).

 

So if we released him for performance reasons prior to the start of the 2013 regular season, the cap penalty would be $2.13m. That could be split evenly between 2013 and 2014, $1.065m each year, if we chose to designate it as a post June 1 release.

 

If we release him because he's unable to perform, the cap penalty would be $3.13m. That could be split with $2.065m in 2013, and $1.065m in 2014. Usually a post June 1 release allows the team to push at least half of the cap penalty into the next league year, but because the $1m guarantee is for 2013 base salary, it has to be accounted for in 2013. 

 

The date of a potential release would matter as well, because Satele is due a $100k workout bonus in 2013 and in 2014. So if we release him after he's met the conditions for the workout bonus, then the cap penalty would be increased by $100k

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you are correct. Just take the 2.7 mill that I thought was guaranteed and our numbers are the same unless the injury clause for the 700K comes into effect. It's pretty much the "normal " ... whatever is left of the guaranteed bonuses . In this case it's two thirds of the 3.2 mill plus the misc bonus of 100k which would depend on when he was released. I have no idea where I thought I saw the 2.7 2013 salary was guaranteed.

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I wouldn't expect a GM that "wheels and deals" as much as Grigson to not admit mistakes. If that's the case , we're in real trouble as the guy makes multiple moves. If we look at the little bit of a sample we have , this wouldn't appear to be the case. He cut Zib in a hurry and he's kinda has set McKinney up to be a cut. 

 

If i understand you correctly,  then I believe you're correct.   Grigson does, and has, admitted mistakes.   I think his comment -- said more than once in various interviews -- is that Scouts/GMs are in the people business and mistakes are made in the people business.    

 

There's just no way of getting around it.    The trick is to make fewer of them, both in total number, and in size/scope of importance.

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Satele has a lot to prove and Holmes has to gain strength and learn (Which he is capable of doing IMO...very smart individual)

 

3 Yr. 10.8 million vs 480,000.....for 1 year to either let Holmes learn the NFL or start him.....I still take Shipley.  A couple of bad snaps?  I take 100 plus yards average for the RBs when Shipley played as well as it seemed he made the other OL better.  Line calls better?  Who knows.  Supposedly Holmes is VERY good at this....so that too is a plus for Holmes.

 

Holmes has some snapping issues as well....Pagano alluded to on the video yesterday although it could have been the all star center we got from Purdue....not even mention top 30 in CENTERS!

 

You know me I will root Satele and Holmes on like there is no tomorrow.  I am a Colt fan.  I am also going to root for a guy that played injred too last year by the name of AQ Shipley t make the Ravens first, and challenge for the starting center job.  Ozzie likes him like now 91.875$ of our forum... haha  lmao  :nfl:  :colts:  :colts:  :colts: !!!!!

A lot of Shipley's shot gun snaps were coming out low so I wouldn't say it's just a few.  Rather or not that's the reason the Colts wanted to part with him I don't know.  You would have to ask Grigson that.  I am just saying that's something I noticed and might have been a reason.  I was just trying to back up the point that clearly there is a reason why the Colts were willing to part with Shipley because if they thought he was as good as many here think I don't think they would have drafted a rookie center and I don't think they would have been playing Satele at less than 100% over him. 

 

I think you touch on a point did the line play better because he was in the game or did the line play better when he was in the game.  I think judging by the moves the Colts have made they feel it's more the later.  Again, you would have to ask Grigson or Pagano to get an exact break down on where they fall on the subject.  A lot of those runs went behind Castonzo or behind the guards more than they did Shipley at least to my eyes so I think you have to be careful giving Shipley all the credit for those.  I am not saying he didn't help and clearly he had to play some what well or he would have had no trade value.

 

Still the fact remains there are all the signs in the world to suggest that the Colts didn't think he was the long term answer at center and clearly in their eyes he wasn't or they wouldn't have traded him. 

 

I am not saying Holmes is going to be perfect but I think it's safe to say at this point for whatever reason the Colts seem to think he's a better long term answer than Shipley was.  Again, people can disagree with that and they might very well be proven right.

 

As for the money part I was using that explain why Shipley might have some trade value to the rest of the NFL and why Satele did not.  Add to that the fact Satele is an older player coming a season he was hurt most of and that's why.  I was mainly addressing the person who earlier in this thread asked why didn't Grigson trade Satele instead.  The answer is they could get something for Shipley which they probably couldn't for Satele and his contract is part of the reason why they wouldn't be able too. 

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