A. Q. Shipley traded

[NewEra]

Just because he didn't get enough PT doesn't mean nobody ever spoke up about him.

I don't see why disagreeing with our GM makes someone clueless. I find it funny how hypocritical you are.

And I must say it, it's "know-it-all" not "no-it-all"

Woooo, how cool. And who are you? Oh yeah, nobody! ;). Try retreading the post. I was saying if he was so good, or so much better than satele or Holmes the coaches would have spoke up and said so. I'm fine with the trade. I'm fine with people disagreeing with Grigson. I don't like it when they bad mouth him and act like their opinion is the end all be all. You know, the KNOW IT ALLS

[Nobody]

Woooo, how cool. And who are you? Oh yeah, nobody! ;). Try retreading the post. I was saying if he was so good, or so much better than satele or Holmes the coaches would have spoke up and said so. I'm fine with the trade. I'm fine with people disagreeing with Grigson. I don't like it when they bad mouth him and act like their opinion is the end all be all. You know, the KNOW IT ALLS

Retreading? It's not a tire.

And I read it. You may have said it poorly, but that's not my problem. Not sure how they'd know Holmes was better without seeing him.

[ztboiler]

95% of the responses here...OK 94.767 % still favor Shipley and Baltimore believes they have an "Up and coming" young center.  It looks like they have their Jeff Saturday provided by Saturday's team willing to give HIM a chance. 

 

I am with Mouthfire above.  I wish we would have waited to see how camp started out.  Maybe Grigs felt..."lets make this deal now" to ensure Holmes he has a chance to start."  He LOVES Holmes, and he seems like a special person and player even tough he was rated between the 5th and 7th best center in this draft.

 

We now have Satele, Holmes, Mcgynn and rookie UFA center Rick Schmeig. (From Purdue)  Not a whole lot of info on Schmeig.  Many UFA center MUST have been better...not in this top 30......who is the 3rd center?  McGlynn again?  OUCH (That was Luck hitting the turf)  

 

http://www.kffl.com/a.php/132926/nfl-draft/2013-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings--Centers

Proud to be in the 5%...errr 5.233%.   Narrow is the path of truth.   I'd be very surprised if knowledgeable Baltimore fans believe they have an "up and coming" young center here like Saturday, unless you are referring to Gradkowski.  Shipley is 27 this month and has less than 1 season on an NFL roster.  I genuinely hope that Shipley's strong play last year in our miracle season gives him enough standing in the league to get an honest shot and that he'll make enough rosters over the next 6 years to retire comfortably.  He should be loved here as he is.  It is possible for fans to appreciate that it is a talent driven league and that there were 2 more talented players on the roster in front of him, without diminishing our appreciation for what Shipley brought to the table in a magical season.  It took a lot of contributions from guys off the street to put that season together.  Unfortunately, most of them will bounce around the league for one reason or another.

[BrentMc11]

Retreading? It's not a tire.

And I read it. You may have said it poorly, but that's not my problem. Not sure how they'd know Holmes was better without seeing him.

The key is seeing him against the NFL.....they did not.  Oh well...I am done worrying about it...1 Satele head bob and I am gonna be all over him and the coaching staff....I wish we could have waited on this until camp.  We got an awesome pick though...... :tvhammer: 

[BrentMc11]

Proud to be in the 5%...errr 5.233%.   Narrow is the path of truth.   I'd be very surprised if knowledgeable Baltimore fans believe they have an "up and coming" young center here like Saturday, unless you are referring to Gradkowski.  Shipley is 27 this month and has less than 1 season on an NFL roster.  I genuinely hope that Shipley's strong play last year in our miracle season gives him enough standing in the league to get an honest shot and that he'll make enough rosters over the next 6 years to retire comfortably.  He should be loved here as he is.  It is possible for fans to appreciate that it is a talent driven league and that there were 2 more talented players on the roster in front of him, without diminishing our appreciation for what Shipley brought to the table in a magical season.  It took a lot of contributions from guys off the street to put that season together.  Unfortunately, most of them will bounce around the league for one reason or another.

5% is a big fat F  

 

At least we got a Boiler center who was not in the top 30 to replace AQ.....URRRGH.....if we do not have a 3rd option,,,,,welcome to the team again McAwful.  

 

I am rooting for AQ in Baltimore, and Holmes here.  Hopefully the coaches will fix the Satele head bob....and he comes back healthy and ready to go!

[NewEra]

Retreading? It's not a tire.

And I read it. You may have said it poorly, but that's not my problem. Not sure how they'd know Holmes was better without seeing him.

Thx grammar police. Maybe you can talk with apple and make the keys on the iPhone bigger? The only problem I see you having is someone took your binkie and now you're mad. Sorry about that. I'm truly sorry Grigson traded away Shipley or maybe didn't draft the guys you wanted. Guess what? Not my problem either.

[ztboiler]

5% is a big fat F

 

At least we got a Boiler center who was not in the top 30 to replace AQ.....URRRGH.....if we do not have a 3rd option,,,,,welcome to the team again McAwful.  

 

I am rooting for AQ in Baltimore, and Holmes here.  Hopefully the coaches will fix the Satele head bob....and he comes back healthy and ready to go!

No impact to McGlynn's chances.  If you need a 3rd center, you get one off the street like we did last year.  What was his name again?

[Gavin]

you must not post about those moves

I posted how I liked the Bjoern Werner pick and Khaled Homes and Thornton I believe

[BrentMc11]

No impact to McGlynn's chances.  If you need a 3rd center, you get one off the street like we did last year.  What was his name again?

Rimington award winner AQ Shipley, who had two good centers in front of him in Philly and Pittsburgh and played better that the 3 year 10.8 million dollar injured wonder with the head bob that gives up the plays to the defense.  

 

I do hope you are right...will go back to my original point...Grigson really likes(liked) McGlynn.  Not sure he is willing to admit his mistakes....I hope like Heck he does....and Vaughn and Satele can go too....

[NewEra]

Let me tell you how ridiculous some fans are. If they think for one hot darn minute if Shipley was sooooo good that no coach, line coach or anyone wouldn't have said so. And still somehow the peon Grigson (former gm of the year, former linemen, former scout) just totally ignored such admiration for Shipley and still traded him. Well, I really don't know what to tell you cause apparently you must be clueless or you're just one of those no it alls that if isn't your way it must be wrong.

Seriously, no reason to get worked into a frenzy over a back up for one. And for stuff we have no control over what so ever.

Yeah just reRead it nobody. Apparently you didn't catch the sarcastic undertones.

[Nobody]

[ztboiler]

Rimington award winner AQ Shipley, who had two good centers in front of him in Philly and Pittsburgh and played better that the 3 year 10.8 million dollar injured wonder with the head bob that gives up the plays to the defense.  

 

I do hope you are right...will go back to my original point...Grigson really likes(liked) McGlynn.  Not sure he is willing to admit his mistakes....I hope like Heck he does....and Vaughn and Satele can go too....

I hear you.  These things are what make us passionate fans.  Somewhere Grigson is smiling because we care so much

[Jay Kirk]

What centers do you think were avalablle were better that Holmes?  Was he top 5 last year?

 

They doubled Star Htown when he was struggling.  I also mentioned the snap (s) because of Shipley's one bad snap.

 

I respect your stuff on here, but I am hoping Holmes is ready to play....Satele made me ill...and apparently a whole lot of others.

Including me Brother,hopefully has gotten the bob outta his head  IMO they could've flat out cut Satele and I would've been just short of estatic.He can change my mind but its gonna take alot

[Jay Kirk]

Rimington award winner AQ Shipley, who had two good centers in front of him in Philly and Pittsburgh and played better that the 3 year 10.8 million dollar injured wonder with the head bob that gives up the plays to the defense.  

 

I do hope you are right...will go back to my original point...Grigson really likes(liked) McGlynn.  Not sure he is willing to admit his mistakes....I hope like Heck he does....and Vaughn and Satele can go too....

Shipley will do great there

[TMPHBITEU]

Gone for a few days and I find this thread.

Thank you.

You guys are hilarious.

[GoColts8818]

I honestly thought Shipley was going to have a hard time making the final roster once we took a center in the draft.  They weren't going to give up on Satele after one season, especially when he played most of the season hurt and just gutted it out.  When they took the other center in the draft it told me that they didn't think Shipley was the long term answer at center other wise drafting a young center didn't make much sense with Shipley already on the roster.  I think it's time that people finally come to grips with the fact that the Colts were not as high on Shipley as some on this forum are.  The fact that he was still the back up to Satele who was pretty much playing on one leg last year should have been the first clue.  The drafting of another center should have sealed it.  If you watch Shipley he really struggled with snapping in the shotgun and Luck would often have to go down to get the football because it was coming out way too low.  That never really improved the more he played.  I am not saying it can't improve either but I do think that was an area of concern the Colts had with him. 

 

For the people going off on why would they trade Shipley over Satele frankly Shipley had trade value and Satele does not.  Satele is a vet coming off an injured season with a contract that isn't cheap when compared to other young players.  Shipley is a very young player who was playing on an extremely cheap contract.  Thus that gets teams attention if that player is on the market and you think he can play.  The fact that Grigson turned a guy who was probably going to get released into some value again speaks to the good job Grigson is doing as GM.  It might not be the most popular move in the world with the fan base but Grigson isn't worried about making the fan base happy he's worried about doing what is best for the team.  Let's just trust him for now.  He's earned the right to have our trust.  Trust me if he screws up (which he will ALL GMs do at some point) there is going to plenty of time to rip him for it after the fact and be able to say you were against the move from the start. 

[BrentMc11]

I hear you.  These things are what make us passionate fans.  Somewhere Grigson is smiling because we care so much

WE totally agree on this one....Love it ZB!!!!!          

[BrentMc11]

Gone for a few days and I find this thread.

Thank you.

You guys are hilarious.

You look like an evil Fonzi in your new avatar....Where is Potsie and Ralph?      

[BrentMc11]

I honestly thought Shipley was going to have a hard time making the final roster once we took a center in the draft.  They weren't going to give up on Satele after one season, especially when he played most of the season hurt and just gutted it out.  When they took the other center in the draft it told me that they didn't think Shipley was the long term answer at center other wise drafting a young center didn't make much sense with Shipley already on the roster.  I think it's time that people finally come to grips with the fact that the Colts were not as high on Shipley as some on this forum are.  The fact that he was still the back up to Satele who was pretty much playing on one leg last year should have been the first clue.  The drafting of another center should have sealed it.  If you watch Shipley he really struggled with snapping in the shotgun and Luck would often have to go down to get the football because it was coming out way too low.  That never really improved the more he played.  I am not saying it can't improve either but I do think that was an area of concern the Colts had with him. 

 

For the people going off on why would they trade Shipley over Satele frankly Shipley had trade value and Satele does not.  Satele is a vet coming off an injured season with a contract that isn't cheap when compared to other young players.  Shipley is a very young player who was playing on an extremely cheap contract.  Thus that gets teams attention if that player is on the market and you think he can play.  The fact that Grigson turned a guy who was probably going to get released into some value again speaks to the good job Grigson is doing as GM.  It might not be the most popular move in the world with the fan base but Grigson isn't worried about making the fan base happy he's worried about doing what is best for the team.  Let's just trust him for now.  He's earned the right to have our trust.  Trust me if he screws up (which he will ALL GMs do at some point) there is going to plenty of time to rip him for it after the fact and be able to say you were against the move from the start. 

Satele has a lot to prove and Holmes has to gain strength and learn (Which he is capable of doing IMO...very smart individual)

 

3 Yr. 10.8 million vs 480,000.....for 1 year to either let Holmes learn the NFL or start him.....I still take Shipley.  A couple of bad snaps?  I take 100 plus yards average for the RBs when Shipley played as well as it seemed he made the other OL better.  Line calls better?  Who knows.  Supposedly Holmes is VERY good at this....so that too is a plus for Holmes.

 

Holmes has some snapping issues as well....Pagano alluded to on the video yesterday although it could have been the all star center we got from Purdue....not even mention top 30 in CENTERS!

 

You know me I will root Satele and Holmes on like there is no tomorrow.  I am a Colt fan.  I am also going to root for a guy that played injred too last year by the name of AQ Shipley t make the Ravens first, and challenge for the starting center job.  Ozzie likes him like now 91.875$ of our forum...     :nfl:       !!!!!

[BrentMc11]

Shipley will do great there

I am rooting him on...as well as Satele and Holmes.  That is the Colt fanatic in me

[Crunked]

On the face of it, I don't like this move. To me the first tangible mistake I could point to by our GM.....However, now having a little time to digest the bigger picture aspect of this and reading on Colts.com the coaches take on Khalid.....I am thinking, what may have happened is the team saw that Holmes was more than they had even hoped.....and came to the realization that (and not saying I agree) Satele is not going to be cut, but Holmes is clearly going to make Shipley expendable decided to get something out of him/do A.Q. a solid by trading him to a team who needs a center/ A.k.a. give Shipley a chance to play, as opposed to make him a camp casualty that would be on the scramble to catch on somewhere mid stream. Again, I don't know that trading Shipley would have been my expendable man if I was GM.......but I am not....just offering an alternate conspiracy theory.......I will miss A.Q.

[Jay Kirk]

I am rooting him on...as well as Satele and Holmes.  That is the Colt fanatic in me

You know me better than anyone,I as well will root for them asw well,and I hope Satele proves me wrong,and I hope through film someone addresses that head bob.If he does not show drastic improvement Holmes better step up.Thorton is the rookie my eyes are on think hes gonna good and im speaking OL .It should benefit whoever plays Center just having better players around them

[Gavin]

Satele is alright in tight spaces when he has decent Guards beside him to catch one of he releases them but he is awful in space mainly do to lack of moving his feet and he reaches sometimes...All in my opinion on what I saw at times from watching him in Oakland as well as here

[coltsfanatic24]

Satele will start with 1st team in training camp due to his experience but eventually Holmes will win the starting job because he's a more talented player. Luck,Hilton,Ballard,Fleener,and Allen all played a lot and started as rookies and i think the same will happen with Holmes and Thornton.

[BrentMc11]

You know me better than anyone,I as well will root for them asw well,and I hope Satele proves me wrong,and I hope through film someone addresses that head bob.If he does not show drastic improvement Holmes better step up.Thorton is the rookie my eyes are on think hes gonna good and im speaking OL .It should benefit whoever plays Center just having better players around them

[You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

LIKE!  

 

I agree on Thornton totally...just mentioned him in my PM   Thomas I am a little leery of....just because he has not played that much.  Cherilus we will love some days and hate others....penalties and run blocking.

 

In bold is why Shipley is the better center....they made running to the left possible with Olsen blocking...let alone new guys that can block.  Link looked his BEST at LG when Shipley was center too.....whatever it is over

[dw49]

Satele has a lot to prove and Holmes has to gain strength and learn (Which he is capable of doing IMO...very smart individual)

 

3 Yr. 10.8 million vs 480,000.....for 1 year to either let Holmes learn the NFL or start him.....I still take Shipley.  A couple of bad snaps?  I take 100 plus yards average for the RBs when Shipley played as well as it seemed he made the other OL better.  Line calls better?  Who knows.  Supposedly Holmes is VERY good at this....so that too is a plus for Holmes.

 

Holmes has some snapping issues as well....Pagano alluded to on the video yesterday although it could have been the all star center we got from Purdue....not even mention top 30 in CENTERS!

 

You know me I will root Satele and Holmes on like there is no tomorrow.  I am a Colt fan.  I am also going to root for a guy that played injred too last year by the name of AQ Shipley t make the Ravens first, and challenge for the starting center job.  Ozzie likes him like now 91.875$ of our forum...     :nfl:       !!!!!

 

 

Not sure I understand your point about the money aspect. But I do know there would be a large cap hit if you cut Satele and kept Shipley. So if that's what's you're suggesting , it would require two factors . 

 

1) They have the cap room to cut Satale.

2) The Colts figure Shipley is the better player.

 

If the above is not true , then it's a no brainer to move Shipley and get a 7th for him. It's obvious the Colts want Holmes to be the back up center and you just don't need to be 3 deep at C. Plus it could be that by keeping Shipley , they would end up being thin at OT. This is a long thread and I haven't read it all , but has anyone considered the overall roster factor. Maybe by making this move , you free up another spot on the roster for an extra RB or WR or whatever. Other words , even though Shipley might be worthy of an NFL roster spot , he just doesn't fit with us as we only have 3 legit OT's and are stocked at interior O linemen.

[Gavin]

Not sure I understand your point about the money aspect. But I do know there would be a large cap hit if you cut Satele and kept Shipley. So if that's what's you're suggesting , it would require two factors . 

 

1) They have the cap room to cut Satale.

2) The Colts figure Shipley is the better player.

 

If the above is not true , then it's a no brainer to move Shipley and get a 7th for him. It's obvious the Colts want Holmes to be the back up center and you just don't need to be 3 deep at C. Plus it could be that by keeping Shipley , they would end up being thin at OT. This is a long thread and I haven't read it all , but has anyone considered the overall roster factor. Maybe by making this move , you free up another spot on the roster for an extra RB or WR or whatever. Other words , even though Shipley might be worthy of an NFL roster spot , he just doesn't fit with us as we only have 3 legit OT's and are stocked at interior O linemen.

That cap hit would be 3,866.667.00$ wouldn't it? or the dead cap hit of 2,133,334.00$?

[NewColtsFan]

That cap hit would be 3,866.667.00$ wouldn't it? or the dead cap hit of 2,133,334.00$?

 

If done before June 1,  I believe it's only the Dead Cap hit the Colts take on.    After that date,  the penalty for cutting Satele is greater (though I'm not sure how much?)

 

We need someone like Superman or FJC who understand the CBA to offer some wisdom here....

[jamesie jr]

Satele will start with 1st team in training camp due to his experience but eventually Holmes will win the starting job because he's a more talented player. Luck,Hilton,Ballard,Fleener,and Allen all played a lot and started as rookies and i think the same will happen with Holmes and Thornton.

I do agree with you there but apart from ballard and hilton they all had little or no veteran competition. Holmes and Thornton do, they are better and will start eventually but it will take time i think for them to earn to job.

[dw49]

The problem with cutting Satale this year is his base of 2.7 mill is guaranteed. So if you add 2/3rds of the 3.2 signing bonus , you get a cap hit of about 4.7 mill. As Colts fan says , you can take it over 2 years or you can just take it all this year... depending on when you cut him. 

 

If he were cut next year , the cap hit would only be around 1 mill . So you would go from a large cap hit to saving over 3 mill on the 2014 cap. That being due to his scheduled base of 4.2 mill in 2014.

[ColtsBlueFL]

This move suggests that we drafted him to be.

 

All I'm saying is that there have been a lot of words about how much better Shipley was than Satele last year, and whether that's accurate or not, Shipley wasn't exactly anchoring our offensive line. The line play was still below par, with or without Shipley. So my feelings aren't all that hurt over the fact that he won't be here anymore. He wasn't that important to us. JMO

 

And again I'll say, I believe Satele's injury held him back last year. When we signed him, I went back and watched some of his games from Oakland and Miami, and either his skills completely deteriorated in one season, or something else was wrong. I think Satele is better than he showed in 2012.

 

I'm just full of agreement here.  All of our line was substandard, including the best OL player- our LT.  AQS appeared to have better moments than an injured SS, but those weren't that great and I think he became injured too.  We needed to get better and / or more durable players. (hopefully both).  I think a healthy SS will prove its worth holding on to him. hopefully Holmes takes his job in fairly short order too.

[dw49]

If done before June 1,  I believe it's only the Dead Cap hit the Colts take on.    After that date,  the penalty for cutting Satele is greater (though I'm not sure how much?)

 

We need someone like Superman or FJC who understand the CBA to offer some wisdom here....

 

 

Pretty sure it would just be the combination or his 2013 guaranteed base (2.7) and the pro rated signing bonus left .. 1,066,667 X 2 or 2,133,334. Not sure which of the 3 100K misc bonuses was guaranteed. But 2.7 plus 2.1 is pretty close.  4.8 is the cap hit if taken all in 2013.

[NewColtsFan]

Pretty sure it would just be the combination or his 2013 guaranteed base (2.7) and the pro rated signing bonus left .. 1,066,667 X 2 or 2,133,334. Not sure which of the 3 100K misc bonuses was guaranteed. But 2.7 plus 2.1 is pretty close.  4.8 is the cap hit if taken all in 2013.

 

I'm certainly no cap expert in anyway,  shape or form....     but I don't believe the $4.8 Mill figure is anywhere close to correct.

 

I've seen stories about cutting Satele and I've never seen that figure mentioned like that....   not even close to that...

 

Here are his contract details from Spotrac.com

 

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/samson-satele/

 

 

The webpage is talking about $2.1 Mill and change as the Dead Cap hit if we cut him now...    that's his pro-rated bonus for 2013 and 2014.    But that's all.

[seeblu]

This thread is a head shaker.  The reason the Colts traded Shipley was that they didn't need him. 

 

 

From Colts.com

 

"Lining up to the left of Thornton for nearly all of the afternoon practice was fourth round draft pick Khaled Holmes.

 

With the trade of A.Q. Shipley earlier in the week, there are valuable reps to be had at the center position and the leadership of Holmes was evident early on Friday.

 

“The guy is brilliant, very sharp, very bright, makes all the calls,” Pagano said of the USC center.

 

“He picked up (things fast). It seems like he’s been here months the way he operated out here. He had that aura about him. He’s a very, very confident kid. I was very impressed with Khaled.”

 

Thornton and Holmes will be involved in a new offensive scheme this season with offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton brining in one of college football’s most balanced attacks.

 

The offensive line has received a lot of attention in the offseason but thanks to a pair of draft picks in the trenches, the coaching staff is liking what they are seeing up front.

 

“I feel great about the offensive line and where we are at,” Pagano said. “We are still going to be a power-run team and try to get ourselves in third-and-manageable. You’ve got to run the football, but we are still going to take our shots down field.”

[BrentMc11]

Not sure I understand your point about the money aspect. But I do know there would be a large cap hit if you cut Satele and kept Shipley. So if that's what's you're suggesting , it would require two factors . 

 

1) They have the cap room to cut Satale.

2) The Colts figure Shipley is the better player.

 

If the above is not true , then it's a no brainer to move Shipley and get a 7th for him. It's obvious the Colts want Holmes to be the back up center and you just don't need to be 3 deep at C. Plus it could be that by keeping Shipley , they would end up being thin at OT. This is a long thread and I haven't read it all , but has anyone considered the overall roster factor. Maybe by making this move , you free up another spot on the roster for an extra RB or WR or whatever. Other words , even though Shipley might be worthy of an NFL roster spot , he just doesn't fit with us as we only have 3 legit OT's and are stocked at interior O linemen.

I would not have hesitated to cut Satele and admit my mistake with Satele....A 7th is not good for a center that produced well for us.  I have to disagree   I may be wrong to cut with the cap hit, but we will only have Satele this year IMO anyway.  Good for Shipley he gets a chance elsewhere.  As I said before, I think he is Baltimore's Jeff Saturday...hoping so.

 

I have been wrong before, and I may be wrong here, but as I have said throughout this thread....I will root Satele on when he starts.  I will root Holmes on when he starts.  I will root the Colts on whomever is on the field.  I will also give them  :cuss: when they play poorly...will give them     for a job well done...because first and foremost I am a   fan-atic!!!

Edited May 11, 2013 by BrentMc11

[BrentMc11]

If done before June 1,  I believe it's only the Dead Cap hit the Colts take on.    After that date,  the penalty for cutting Satele is greater (though I'm not sure how much?)

 

We need someone like Superman or FJC who understand the CBA to offer some wisdom here....

FJC is the best.....Miss my buddy!

[NewColtsFan]

FJC is the best.....Miss my buddy!

 

Me too.....   I've tried several times to encourage him to come back....    but, so far,  no luck....  (no pun intended)

[Gavin]

I didn't even know he left for good, I thought he just got busy

[Coltswarriors]

I don't know how accurate it is, but Yahoo s saying we got a conditional 4th round pick for him.... http://sports.yahoo.com/news/indianapolis-colts-shrewdly-trade-center-baltimore-ravens-153000238.html

 

Thought I read yesterday it was a 7th, can't remember where I saw that.

 

If it's true that it's a 4th, I now like this trade.

[Gavin]

I'd be baffled if it is, I wouldn't expect anything higher then a 5th for a Center that has only 6 career starts under his belt in since being drafted in 2009