A. Q. Shipley traded

[NJColtsFan]

Shipley out played Satele last year in a different system. Last year was all about the deep ball and big plays. This year we are running a west coast offense with more of a power run game. Shipley is a little better pass blocker and suited for a zone blocking system. Satele is a run blocker better suited for a power run game and is better from shotgun. The quick passes of the west coast offense makes Satele's pass blocking liabilities less of an issue. Plus we will probably only have him starting for another year at most. The odds were Shipley was going to get cut so we might as well get something for him. If he is actually as great of a center as everyone is saying, then he should be the starter in Baltimore next year which will improve the value of the pick we get in return. It may not be my favorite trade ever but I understand it.

[crazycolt1]

I love how everyone is freaking out about losing an undrafted backup Center and calling for the head of Ryan Grigson after the turn around he gave us last year. You really think he doesn't know what he's doing? C'mon people. Relax.

All the shade tree GMs come out of the woodwork with every Colt move.  I highly doubt if Grigson reads or cares what people who are not in the position to evaluate the talent level of a player. There are posters who always have something negative to comment on no matter what the subject is. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions but to automatically think this or that move is wrong is being narrow minded. Grigson did not get to be the GM of the year by being stupid. He done more last season with less than any team in the NFL. 36 new players on the roster. 5 or 7 receivers were rookies. 11 different starting offensive lines. A rookie QB. A head coach who was not even on the sidelines. Now you want to whine about 1 player who was not even considered a good center?  I totally agree with FightLikeSin , this is something that means very little in the bigger picture. 

[BOTT]

So fans are not allowed to have an opinion? Im feeling to lazy to go back over every post from the beginning of last year till now but I bet I can find at least 1 or 2 that shows that you have not agreed with all of Grigsons moves, I could probably even go back and find one that you said about Sateles negative play

Yes people are allowed to have an opinion, but it's the certainty with which some speak that is annoying. Just go look at the thread Dustin started which had a link to last years draft thread.

[Gavin]

Shipley out played Satele last year in a different system. Last year was all about the deep ball and big plays. This year we are running a west coast offense with more of a power run game. Shipley is a little better pass blocker and suited for a zone blocking system. Satele is a run blocker better suited for a power run game and is better from shotgun. The quick passes of the west coast offense makes Satele's pass blocking liabilities less of an issue. Plus we will probably only have him starting for another year at most. The odds were Shipley was going to get cut so we might as well get something for him. If he is actually as great of a center as everyone is saying, then he should be the starter in Baltimore next year which will improve the value of the pick we get in return. It may not be my favorite trade ever but I understand it.

2 things:

 

1.We ran mostly a Man blocking scheme last year

2.It was confirmed by one of the players recently that we will be running alot more Zone blocking this year

 

 

I think this comes down to 1 thing more then anything else (which is what I said it would come down to from the beginning)

 

1.We are paying Satele good money (His cap ht is 5,336,667 million dollars this year) which means Colts brass wont eat that and admit they are wrong about him

[schwamm]

Shipley out played Satele last year in a different system. Last year was all about the deep ball and big plays. This year we are running a west coast offense with more of a power run game. Shipley is a little better pass blocker and suited for a zone blocking system. Satele is a run blocker better suited for a power run game and is better from shotgun. The quick passes of the west coast offense makes Satele's pass blocking liabilities less of an issue. Plus we will probably only have him starting for another year at most. The odds were Shipley was going to get cut so we might as well get something for him. If he is actually as great of a center as everyone is saying, then he should be the starter in Baltimore next year which will improve the value of the pick we get in return. It may not be my favorite trade ever but I understand it.

Careful about using logic on this board.

One other possibility here: Colts shopped Satele, but no team wanted him, so the Colts got what they could for Shipley, assuming that either are likely to be a stopgap until they are comfortable starting the rookie.

[BrentMc11]

Holmes was gonna start over A.Q and Satele and we couldn't keep 3 centers on the roster. Satele had no value atleast we got a pick for A.Q  instead of cutting one of them and not getting anything for it.

If Holmes was going to start over Satele then to me it is worse.....he has 2 years left on his contract and sucked last year.  Ballard was able to find holes with Shipley in there. 

 

We averaged over 100 yards per game with Shipley at center.  Adding Thomas and Thornton would have made him even better.

 

I guess this means McAful starts at right guard too.  The ONLY thing I like about this trade....is NOTHING!

 

Holmes is going to be solid....I was looking at nice depth to start at guard and center.  He WILL be the backup center.  Satele starts.  URRRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!        :cuss:       !!!!!

 

Satele:  fix the 'give the play away head bob!!!!"  It is a shame nobody wanted your contract!

 

Joe Gilbert:  It is your job as a coach to fix "said head bob"  If not Luck is TOAST!

[Fx Stryker]

Who does it better? Satele or the monkey?

 

[Shepman]

I also believe Thornton has experience playing some center as well so we still have 3 players with center experience.

[needanoline63]

Very disappointing trade, Shipley was my favorite offensive linemen. This trade makes no sense. Very stupid move by grigson

[atapcl]

We still have McGlynn.

Maybe more to this than a joke. Holmes can play c and g. Thornton, Holmes, Anderson, Reitz, Ijalana, and Thomas may be too talented for McGlynn to stay at g.

[ztboiler]

The fact that 1 of the best G.M.'s and talent evaluators in the league in Ozzie Newsome wanted Shipley tells me this was a bad move for us, Newsome continues to make brilliant moves this offseason...

Yes Ozzie is a wizard, but you are aware that Baltimore's center retired and they are relying on last year's 4th rounder and this year's 6th rounder right?  It is a lot like our secondary situation last year when we brought in Vaughn, Gordy, etc.on similar trades.  We needed bodies.  Baltimore needs bodies and Shipley has at least proven to be a serviceable back up - good move for both squads.  Regardless of what this forum thinks, Satele is an established center in the NFL.  Doesn't mean our talent level just dropped in any way.

[ztboiler]

Ill bet we didn't get near enough for him. I like the move if we get a good pick.

What is a good pick?  Is a 7th rounder a good pick?  That is more than we'd have received when we cut him.....and we were going to cut him.

[BrentMc11]

Very disappointing trade, Shipley was my favorite offensive linemen. This trade makes no sense. Very stupid move by grigson

Without question as we have mentioned before.  

 

I will never say Grigson is stupid or make stupid moves.  I will say he SEEMS to fall in love with his moves and not admit mistakes.

 

Satele and McGlynn were MISTAKES.  They sent the best center out the door.  Grigson being a former offensive linema befuddles me....sent out the one guy with a mean streak...the one guy who was willing to play hurt....out the door.  

 

Grigson:  You have turned this team around, but please do not be afraid to admit your mistakes and trade the right player....and let McGlynn walk....

[zippyd]

Didn't Shipley fill in at guard with some success last year for a game or two?

[MrNLM]

When I read this on roto I said to myself, "This is not going to go over well with some on the forum."

 

Having said that I have not been disappointed.

[GoodLuck]

Satele clearly is involved in some kind of deviant sexual affair with someone high up in the organization. Clearly. who? I don't know. This needs to be investigated.

Why does Grigson hate Andrew Luck? What did Andrew do to deserve this?

[Deathiltis]

we only got a conditional pick in 2014 for shipley

 

Did you think A.Q. was worth a first round pick or something? He wasn't as good as people say and probably was going to be cut anyway. Might as well trade him for a pick than cut him.

[Colts_Fan12]

I'm like everyone else I do believe Satele was worse I agree there but Shipley isn't a pro bowler so I'm not worried about this trade for all we know Satele sucks so bad maybe no one wanted him and his crappy contract ik I wouldn't

[Nobody]

What is a good pick? Is a 7th rounder a good pick? That is more than we'd have received when we cut him.....and we were going to cut him.

No. And maybe we were going to cut him, but we shouldn't.

[needanoline63]

I'm like everyone else I do believe Satele was worse I agree there but Shipley isn't a pro bowler so I'm not worried about this trade for all we know Satele sucks so bad maybe no one wanted him and his crappy contract ik I wouldn't

Shipley had the most potential then any of the other young linemen had

[Narcosys]

Very disappointing trade, Shipley was my favorite offensive linemen. This trade makes no sense. Very stupid move by grigson

You know what? This is all I've read about every move Grigson has made. If that's the case, we get clowney next year!!!

[needanoline63]

You know what? This is all I've read about every move Grigson has made. If that's the case, we get clowney next year!!!

Yes that's right, this is the 2nd stupid move by grigson. 1 was giving all that money to walden

[Colts_Fan12]

Shipley had the most potential then any of the other young linemen had

I hate seeing Satele as much as everyone believe me I'd much rather have Shipley

[AntonMcG]

On the bright side, at least this trade has provided another amusing Brad Wells' reaction.

[Dustin]

Satele clearly is involved in some kind of deviant sexual affair with someone high up in the organization. Clearly. who? I don't know. This needs to be investigated.

Why does Grigson hate Andrew Luck? What did Andrew do to deserve this?

[ztboiler]

Without question as we have mentioned before.  

 

I will never say Grigson is stupid or make stupid moves.  I will say he SEEMS to fall in love with his moves and not admit mistakes.

 

Satele and McGlynn were MISTAKES.  They sent the best center out the door.  Grigson being a former offensive linema befuddles me....sent out the one guy with a mean streak...the one guy who was willing to play hurt....out the door.  

 

Grigson:  You have turned this team around, but please do not be afraid to admit your mistakes and trade the right player....and let McGlynn walk....

I don't think Grigson has any loyalty to McGlynn beyond his play on the field.  Nor do I think McGlynn will make the team.  With Satele, maybe you are right, but it is too early to tell.  Satele had an uneven year, but has established himself as a talented NFL center.  I don't think any GM in the league could be accused of not admitting their mistake this early in a players tenure when a mid-level investment has been made.  Grigson believes in Satele's talent or he wouldn't have signed him.  That same belief means you don't cut him with a big cap hit after an uneven season.  That isn't the same thing as not admitting your mistake.  Any GM in the league can see that Satele has much greater physical tools than Shipley does - Grigson is just letting the hand play out as he should while drafting a starter level talent as the back up to develop for the future.

[James]

I'm sorry James,  but you have it backwards....

 

Shipley is bigger than Satele.     Shipley was 305.    Satele is 285.     Satele might be an inch taller.   But all in all, he's smaller than A.Q.

 

Satele is two inches taller than Shipley. Better frame to put more weight on. He'll fit the profile better. We don't have anyone on the o-line below 6 ft. 3. in., and that's how it should be. Shipley is not tall/big (call it what you want) enough.

[Narcosys]

Yes that's right, this is the 2nd stupid move by grigson. 1 was giving all that money to walden

I've seen that every FA move was stupid, that ever draft pick was stupid, and now any trade is going to be stupid. The man is just plain stupid it seems.

[ztboiler]

No. And maybe we were going to cut him, but we shouldn't.

What else do you do with a player who doesn't have enough talent to be a long term solution when you have 2 players who do have enough talent in front of him? I'm OK with all the appreciation that fans around here have for Shipley's contributions - they were considerable last year - but he is a very limited talent.

[BrentMc11]

I don't think Grigson has any loyalty to McGlynn beyond his play on the field.  Nor do I think McGlynn will make the team.  With Satele, maybe you are right, but it is too early to tell.  Satele had an uneven year, but has established himself as a talented NFL center.  I don't think any GM in the league could be accused of not admitting their mistake this early in a players tenure when a mid-level investment has been made.  Grigson believes in Satele's talent or he wouldn't have signed him.  That same belief means you don't cut him with a big cap hit after an uneven season.  That isn't the same thing as not admitting your mistake.  Any GM in the league can see that Satele has much greater physical tools than Shipley does - Grigson is just letting the hand play out as he should while drafting a starter level talent as the back up to develop for the future.

When I mention McGlynn, Grigson has stated he "Loved his mean streak" and also stated that he was the vocal leader of the OL.  This came early last year, and Mike Chappel mentioned it again in the Indy Star before the draft.  To me that is a LIKE!

 

To Satele, Miami did not want him for some reason....nor did the Raiders.  Centers are usually the last to be picked in the OL, and the toughest to make a team (See Rimington award winners Shipley and Kirpatrick former Colts.)

 

Satele was a HUGE disappointment and Grigson cut the player who looked better on what he looks at daily (tape)  Bottom line is he got rid of the better center.  I would take the cap hit to see Ballard and the boys over 100 every game.

 

I stand behind the bolded comment above...Satele and McGlynn ARE mistakes....and Justice was as well truth be told.

[BrentMc11]

What else do you do with a player who doesn't have enough talent to be a long term solution when you have 2 players who do have enough talent in front of him? I'm OK with all the appreciation that fans around here have for Shipley's contributions - they were considerable last year - but he is a very limited talent.

So was Jeff Saturday before given his chance.  Shipley may even have more of a mean streak....won the award for best center in the nation.  Hardly limited at talent.  Saturday was rated the 11th best in his class....."very limiited talent I guess."

[Andy]

Would also like to point out that in a similar power running system in Oakland, Satele was perhaps their best O-lineman and a big reason why their running game tore it up that year (2010).

 

Just some food for thought.

[NewColtsFan]

Satele is two inches taller than Shipley. Better frame to put more weight on. He'll fit the profile better. We don't have anyone on the o-line below 6 ft. 3. in., and that's how it should be. Shipley is not tall/big (call it what you want) enough.

 

 

Satele is not putting on anymore weight.    He's a veteran and he struggles to play at 285.    If he was going to put on more weight (teams prefer centers to be closer to 300)   he'd have done it years ago.   Satele is who he is.    Size was not Shipley's problem.

 

Satele is likely the smallest center in the NFL.     It is what it is....

 

EDIT:    Just double checked....   Satele is now listed at 299.     That's up from last year.

 

I'll be respectful and simply say.....   I'll believe it when I see it....   

[BrentMc11]

Satele is two inches taller than Shipley. Better frame to put more weight on. He'll fit the profile better. We don't have anyone on the o-line below 6 ft. 3. in., and that's how it should be. Shipley is not tall/big (call it what you want) enough.

6'1" and 315 for Shipley.  You don't have to be 6'4" or 6' 5".  A NT at 6'1 or 6' 2" can get leverage easily (Never easily, but easier)

 

Jeff Saturday was 6' 2" 295.......he had a pretty good career.

[BOTT]

Satele is not putting on anymore weight.    He's a veteran and he struggles to play at 285.    If he was going to put on more weight (teams prefer centers to be closer to 300)   he'd have done it years ago.   Satele is who he is.    Size was not Shipley's problem.

 

Satele is likely the smallest center in the NFL.     It is what it is....

 

EDIT:    Just double checked....   Satele is now listed at 299.     That's up from last year.

 

I'll be respectful and simply say.....   I'll believe it when I see it....

Satele's weight has been listed as around 300 since he came to Indy

[ztboiler]

When I mention McGlynn, Grigson has stated he "Loved his mean streak" and also stated that he was the vocal leader of the OL.  This came early last year, and Mike Chappel mentioned it again in the Indy Star before the draft.  To me that is a LIKE!

 

To Satele, Miami did not want him for some reason....nor did the Raiders.  Centers are usually the last to be picked in the OL, and the toughest to make a team (See Rimington award winners Shipley and Kirpatrick former Colts.)

 

Satele was a HUGE disappointment and Grigson cut the player who looked better on what he looks at daily (tape)  Bottom line is he got rid of the better center.  I would take the cap hit to see Ballard and the boys over 100 every game.

 

I stand behind the bolded comment above...Satele and McGlynn ARE mistakes....and Justice was as well truth be told.

Re: McGlynn those quotes are in season...last season, about a known stop gap player.  He was talking to fans about positive elements.  That is part of his job, and I'm certain he does like those qualities about McGlynn  Not sure that has anything to do with his loyalty moving forward given that he just drafted right over him.

 

Re: Satele.  I know you know your stuff, so I respect your opinion.  However, the list of talented players signed to reasonable contracts every year that go on to have injury plagued seasons is pretty long around the league.  Satele is on it.  Most of those players don't get cut until at least 2 years in.  Doesn't make them mistakes, just part of the business.  Satele had segments of excellent play last year amidst the struggles.  Probably a talent worth seeing more of.

 

Re: Justice.  He was probably the most brilliant stop gap move of all.  $1.5 million and we got our money's worth despite the injuries.  We are better now, because we can afford to be, but we couldn't afford to be last year.  Justice fit perfectly.

[BrentMc11]

Satele's weight has been listed as around 300 since he came to Indy

He must have swelling in his big toe.  I hope Holmes is a good backup.  Shipley WANTED to play injured....sore toes did not seem to bother him.

[Colts_Fan12]

He must have swelling in his big toe. I hope Holmes is a good backup. Shipley WANTED to play injured....sore toes did not seem to bother him.

I hope Holmes is a starter

[ztboiler]

So was Jeff Saturday before given his chance.  Shipley may even have more of a mean streak....won the award for best center in the nation.  Hardly limited at talent.  Saturday was rated the 11th best in his class....."very limiited talent I guess."

Saturday is not as powerful as Shipley (my guess), but has/had outstanding movement skills.  The talent Shipley lacks is movement and that is why he'll bounce around the league.  He really limits what you can do schematically from the position.  I don't have to tell you this...I'll be you've forgotten more about line play than I'll ever know, but movement talent is highly valued at the position.

[Nobody]

What else do you do with a player who doesn't have enough talent to be a long term solution when you have 2 players who do have enough talent in front of him? I'm OK with all the appreciation that fans around here have for Shipley's contributions - they were considerable last year - but he is a very limited talent.

Where are you getting "limited talent" from??