Erik Walden our Starter?

[throwing BBZ]

I'd rather have the guy who stays healthy. 

 Castonzo missed 4 games in 2011, Justice 4 in 2012.  Olson probably fell on Justice trying to pull.

[Dustin]

Castonzo missed 4 games in 2011, Justice 4 in 2012. Olson probably fell on Justice trying to pull.

Justice has missed 17 games in 3 years.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

"...if your OLB's or DE's cant get there then you NEED very good Corners..."

 

 

"...Corner Guard OLB and SS are all higher..."

 

Then you agree that OLB & DE are more important than CB, correct?

[jskinnz]

You are a liar..I can garuntee you you have used the word "we" on this forum and were referring to the colts. And that was my opinion, which is why we are on here to state our opinion. So if you thought it was hysterical, thats your opinion and next time keep it to yourself bc you sound dumb.

Calling me a liar?? Really? Nope, never say we or us as it relates to the Colts, IU or any other team. I think those that do sound ridiculous so I decline to sound likewise.

And you telling me I sound dumb, well that is another funny one from you.

[Freenyfan102]

I am so glad we are giving hughes a chance as a starter -_-

[throwing BBZ]

That's actually the top 20 for Hughes. Im surprised.

 Me too.

JMO. But i saw Hughes as rushing more in his lane maintaining the edge rather than Mathis, (NOT nearly as bad as Freeney mind you)

but Mathis goes more all out and probably deeper in his rush, using his freakish bend and speed to get around. Mathis certainly can keep a QB nervous, Unless the QB feels good about his tackles ability to handle Mathis. Which does happen, because there are several games a year you just don`t hear from Mathis.

 And of course any OC would have plays designed to use his deep rush to their advantage. Jacksonville maybe! hahaha!

[Freenyfan102]

I think the whole idea of noy giving Jerry a chance really really stupid lets us the guy he has the potential let him freaking show what he can do for us in a year.........

[tydontlie]

Calling me a liar?? Really? Nope, never say we or us as it relates to the Colts, IU or any other team. I think those that do sound ridiculous so I decline to sound likewise.

And you telling me I sound dumb, well that is another funny one from you.

Yes, yes I am bc that's what you are. Also, you always sound ridiculous and dumb so keep it up your great at it.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think the whole idea of noy giving Jerry a chance really really stupid

 

We didn't draft him? We didn't carry him over from the 4/3 to the 3/4?

 

This isn't day-care. He's had MANY chances. And if we keep him through training camp, he'll get more.

[Freenyfan102]

He had no chances what so ever he was sitting behind Mathis and freeney ever since he been here.

[Gavin]

Then you agree that OLB & DE are more important than CB, correct?

They work together, if you dont have good players at both Corner and OLB/DE then the team will eventually suffer, the DE's and OLB's cant always get to the QB or get pressure so you need Corners that actually belong out on the football field, thats why our defense struggled alot during the Manning era(we allowed completion percentages constantly in low to mid 60's), sure we had Freeney and Mathis wreaking havoc, but what if they did not get there to the QB? Also what if they did get to QB's lets say a combined 22 timesfor example in 2005, what are you going to do with those 400 or more other pass plays they did not get to the QB or get pressure?  Our Corners were picked on if they did not get there, some of that was scheme but much of it was talent, Its really simple, Pass Rushers have an affect but not nearly as much as a great Corner does, I'll give you an example, if I had to choose between a young Dwight Freeney or a Darrelle Revis then I'd take the shutdown Corner every single time and load the team with pass rushing linebackers that can get you 6-7 average a piece and confuse the offense on who I may be blitzing

[HarassedOffTheSite]

They work together, if you dont have good players at both Corner and OLB/DE then the team will eventually suffer, the DE's and OLB's cant always get to the QB or get pressure so you need Corners that actually belong out on the football field, thats why our defense struggled alot during the Manning era(we allowed completion percentages constantly in low to mid 60's), sure we had Freeney and Mathis wreaking havoc, but what if they did not get there to the QB? Also what if they did get to QB's lets say a combined 22 timesfor example in 2005, what are you going to do with those 400 or more other pass plays they did not get to the QB or get pressure?  Our Corners were picked on if they did not get there, some of that was scheme but much of it was talent, Its really simple, Pass Rushers have an affect but not nearly as much as a great Corner does, I'll give you an example, if I had to choose between a young Dwight Freeney or a Darrelle Revis then I'd take the shutdown Corner every single time and load the team with pass rushing linebackers that can get you 6-7 average a piece and confuse the offense on who I may be blitzing

 

A whole lotta jibberjabber. The LBs are OVERWHELMINGLY more important in the 3/4 than the CBs. And the DEs are OVERWHELMINGLY more important in the 4/3 than the CBs.

 

That's okay. I understand...it is hard for you to show humility.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

He had no chances what so ever he was sitting behind Mathis and freeney ever since he been here.

 

From a cellular level on up, you REALLY do not know what you're talking about.

[Gavin]

A whole lotta jibberjabber. The LBs are OVERWHELMINGLY more important in the 3/4 than the CBs. And the DEs are OVERWHELMINGLY more important in the 4/3 than the CBs.

 

That's okay. I understand...it is hard for you to show humility.

Vikings led the league in sacks in 2011 with 50, they were 26th in passing yards allowed

2011-Patriots 40 sacks good for 14th in the league was 31st in yards allowed 

2011-Giants were 29th in passing yards allowed they had 48 sacks good for 3rd best

2011 Cowboys-42 sacks good for 10th in the league was 23rd worst in yards allowed

 

I can go on but its rather pointless as your going to dismiss this anyway, Ill finish my thought with this, a team can get to the QB a ton of times a season like those teams did in that year above but if your Corners are constantly giving up a high pass completion rate then it does not matter how many sacks you get because on the very next play those yards can be made up with a completed pass if your Corners are not up to par

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Vikings led the league in sacks in 2011 with 50, they were 26th in passing yards allowed

2011-Patriots 40 sacks good for 14th in the league was 31st in yards allowed 

2011-Giants were 29th in passing yards allowed they had 48 sacks good for 3rd best

2011 Cowboys-42 sacks good for 10th in the league was 23rd worst in yards allowed

 

LOL and? What is someone supposed to magically divine from those statistics?

[Jason_]

A whole lotta jibberjabber. The LBs are OVERWHELMINGLY more important in the 3/4 than the CBs. And the DEs are OVERWHELMINGLY more important in the 4/3 than the CBs.

That's okay. I understand...it is hard for you to show humility.

And what do YOU know about showing humility? ;)

[Gavin]

LOL and? What is someone supposed to magically divine from those statistics?

I will complete concede your good at getting under some peoples skin, well played. Your quite adapt at picking and choosing a little piece of a persons opinion and ignoring facts staring you in the face just to live in your Im right and everyone else is wrong world, unfortunately for you your opinions mean the same as everyone elses around here.....

[Jason_]

LOL and? What is someone supposed to magically divine from those statistics?

 

He didn't type out the message in Swahli.  What was so difficult to understand?  Having an elite pass rush does not necessarily equate to good pass defense.  The Colts were a prime example in 2011.  We still had Freeny and Mathis, 2 of the best pass rushers of the decade, but due to inept coverage, our defense still gave up the worst QB rating through the course of the year than any other team in history.  Our defense made Colt McCoy look like Tom Brady.  If there's no coverage, then the QB can get the ball out on a quick 3 step drop, thus negating any attempt at a pass rush.

 

A team needs great coverage and an above average pass rush or a great pass rush and above average coverage.  If a team is great at one but bad at the other then it won't matter that they're great at one.  It's not that difficult.  Surely someone of your staggering intellect can grasp these concepts.  Or is the air too thin way up there on your pedestal that it makes it difficult to concentrate?

[Jason_]

And to everyone else regarding Walden and Hughes....why is everyone assuming that Walden will be the starter AND an every down player?  Many people who were against Kruger were quick to point out that Upshaw played against the run while Kruger played against the pass.  Who's to say that we won't see something similar here next year with Walden playing the early/run downs and Hughes in on passing situations?  I have a feeling Hughes will be on the field far more than he was last year and will have more than enough opportunities to get to double digit sacks.  I'm not saying he definitely will get to double digits, but I bet he has the opportunity to.

[UKColt13]

I don't mind Walden. Yeah, he's not great against the run and he's been inconsistent.

 

But I'm not buying that he will be our starter next season.

 

I like a rush OLB to be taken at #24.

[Balzer40]

I don't mind Walden. Yeah, he's not great against the run and he's been inconsistent.

 

But I'm not buying that he will be our starter next season.

 

I like a rush OLB to be taken at #24.

 

 

 

His run defense is his strength. That's why were switching him to the strong side and moving Mathis to rush LBer.

[UKColt13]

His run defense is his strength. That's why were switching him to the strong side and moving Mathis to rush LBer.

 

Apologies, I mixed him up with someone else.

 

My point still stands though.

[Balzer40]

Apologies, I mixed him up with someone else.

 

My point still stands though.

 

 

I got ya. Hopefully Walden surprises us all. I said before that I never expected Freeman to be anything more than camp fodder last season and look how he turned out. 

[UKColt13]

I got ya. Hopefully Walden surprises us all. I said before that I never expected Freeman to be anything more than camp fodder last season and look how he turned out. 

 

Yeah absolutely. I would NEVER root for one of our players to crash and burn. But I question his ability to start and be a 3 down player.

 

Here's hoping he shock us all.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I will complete concede your good at getting under some peoples skin, well played. Your quite adapt at picking and choosing a little piece of a persons opinion and ignoring facts staring you in the face just to live in your Im right and everyone else is wrong world, unfortunately for you your opinions mean the same as everyone elses around here.....

 

LOL what is it with you and being such a crybaby? Someone takes 'your' incorrect assertions to task and 'your' eventual response is ad hominem? Really dude?

 

Hahaha anyway. Anyone who knows football knows that in order of importance (relative to impact in the gameplan), CBs are the lowest position in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses. That statement doesn't magically morph into meaning CBs aren't important or somehow imply they're not needed.

 

Now, you run along and find something else in that to be offended with. ;)

[Jason_]

LOL what is it with you and being such a crybaby? Someone takes 'your' incorrect assertions to task and 'your' eventual response is ad hominem? Really dude?

 

Hahaha anyway. Anyone who knows football knows that in order of importance (relative to impact in the gameplan), CBs are the lowest position in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses. That statement doesn't magically morph into meaning CBs aren't important or somehow imply they're not needed.

 

Now, you run along and find something else in that to be offended with. ;)

 

What is it with you and being such a condescending, pretentious *?

 

Then perhaps you can explain why the number of CB's drafted in rounds 1 and 2 over the past few years far outweighs the number of ILB's and Safeties drafted in those same rounds?

[HarassedOffTheSite]

He didn't type out the message in Swahli.  What was so difficult to understand?  Having an elite pass rush does not necessarily equate to good pass defense.  The Colts were a prime example in 2011.  We still had Freeny and Mathis, 2 of the best pass rushers of the decade, but due to inept coverage, our defense still gave up the worst QB rating through the course of the year than any other team in history.  Our defense made Colt McCoy look like Tom Brady.  If there's no coverage, then the QB can get the ball out on a quick 3 step drop, thus negating any attempt at a pass rush.

 

A team needs great coverage and an above average pass rush or a great pass rush and above average coverage.  If a team is great at one but bad at the other then it won't matter that they're great at one.  It's not that difficult.  Surely someone of your staggering intellect can grasp these concepts.  Or is the air too thin way up there on your pedestal that it makes it difficult to concentrate?

 

Hahaha and here comes another one.

 

None of that addresses or refutes the reality that in order of importance, CBs are the lowest position in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses. Y'all are arguing against a myriad of imaginary statements that I have not made.

 

CBs are the lowest position (directly relative to priority and impact on the gameplan) in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses.

 

It just is what it is and it is that statement that has received a blizzard of hissy-fits . For no reason. Hahaha why fight reality? And in none of those responses has there been anything that can overcome that reality.

 

I understand that between the clique of cornerbackites and the everpresent coterie of those who are desperate to be offended , some have lashed out against it...but all of that drama doesn't change fact. It's not my opinion. It is just fact. And both Polian and Parcells said so this week on their espn free agency show.

 

CBs are the lowest position (directly relative to priority and impact on the gameplan) in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses.

 

Stop arguing with...

 

"Having an elite pass rush does not necessarily equate to good pass defense" 

"QB rating"

"A team needs both"

"Pass completion rate"

"Sacks"

 

...because none of that addresses my comment nor can it overcome it.

 

CBs are the lowest position (directly relative to priority and impact on the gameplan) in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses.

[Jason_]

Hahaha and here comes another one.

 

None of that addresses or refutes the reality that in order of importance, CBs are the lowest position in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses. Y'all are arguing against a myriad of imaginary statements that I have not made.

 

CBs are the lowest position (directly relative to priority and impact on the gameplan) in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses.

 

It just is what it is and it is that statement that has received a blizzard of hissy-fits . For no reason. Hahaha why fight reality? And in none of those responses has there been anything that can overcome that reality.

 

I understand that between the clique of cornerbackites and the everpresent coterie of those who are desperate to be offended , some have lashed out against it...but all of that drama doesn't change fact. It's not my opinion. It is just fact. And both Polian and Parcells said so this week on their espn free agency show.

 

CBs are the lowest position (directly relative to priority and impact on the gameplan) in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses.

 

Stop arguing with...

 

"Having an elite pass rush does not necessarily equate to good pass defense" 

"QB rating"

"A team needs both"

"Pass completion rate"

"Sacks"

 

...because none of that addresses my comment nor can it overcome it.

 

CBs are the lowest position (directly relative to priority and impact on the gameplan) in all 3/4 and 4/3 defenses.

 

 

Because I disagree with you.  It's sad that your ego is so fragile that you can't handle someone providing an alternate opinion to your own.  I do not agree that CB's are of the least importance.  If CB's were of the lowest position, then why does the average CB salary far outweigh the average salary of an ILB or a Safety?  Why are there far more CB's drafted in early rounds than their are ILB's and Safeties?  

 

I do not agree with your assertion that CB's are of the LOWEST priority in all 3-4 and 4-3 defenses, and the importance shown to the position in the draft, FA and the salaries attributed to those positions would also disprove your theory.  

[ColtsFreak]

Hello Forum,  I myself am not very happy about the walden signing due to the fact that we only have 1 real pash rusher #98. Which opponents can double team all day. If by some miracle this guy is good I will be happy to eat humble pie But,until that happens I view it as a waste of serious cash. especially when for 3.5 mil more we could have had a proven product in avril. The fellow from atlanta was another head scratcher. The rest of the signings we're good. I really hope that with the 17 mil that's left we can get Jennings and francois.

[LockeDown]

I tend to to think about it in terms of production, Hughes gave us 4 sacks last year as a rotational OLB and 40 tackles, Waldens best year he started 15 of 16 games in 2011 and came away with only 60 tackles and 3 sacks, players are paid to produce of course, If you ask me Hughes got the shaft on this one, Grigs is saying, Hughes you had your best year in the first year as a stand up 3-4 DE/OLB but I dont care I am going to bring in a guy thats been doing that for the last 3 years none of which were as productive sack wise as yours was last year and start him, i really seriously have nothing against Walden, as a member of the Colts I hope he does great, history shows othersie however and seriously Hughes cant catch a break(and a backup needs that sometimes to get his shot to prove himself) he was stuck behind Freeney his entire career up till and is seemingly (at least according to what Walden thinks) will get stuck behind a player that had has a serious lack of production in now multiple years in a 3-4, Really Im not complaining, I hope both players do great for us but Walden was overpaid for what he has done so far

 

You speak of production and numbers a lot.  According to your posts (based on your stats), you have said you liked Avery over Hilton, Brown over Ballard, and Jerry Hughes over Freeney (or Mathis).  Now, if you were the GM/coach and you actually made those changes, you would lose your job after the first year.   

[Gavin]

You speak of production and numbers a lot.  According to your posts (based on your stats), you have said you liked Avery over Hilton, Brown over Ballard, and Jerry Hughes over Freeney (or Mathis).  Now, if you were the GM/coach and you actually made those changes, you would lose your job after the first year.   

Avery had a good year, he actually had ONLY 1 more drop (7) to Hiltons 6. Now Hilton earned the chance to be our #2, As per the Brown over Ballard debate, the coaches saw that differently until Brown got hurt there was a reason Brown was starting, if he had not have gotten hurt then Ballard would not have had the # of carries he had nor the yards, keep in mind he still only averaged 3.9ypc at the end of the year which was the same as Browns, Ballard also managed only 2 rushing td's, As per Hughes over Freeney in this defense, you bet I would have taken Hughes over him, Hughes is the better ALL AROUND player, Also pure speculation on your part that I would lose my job as GM if I was one

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Avery had a good year, he actually had ONLY 1 more drop (7) to Hiltons 6. Now Hilton earned the chance to be our #2, As per the Brown over Ballard debate, the coaches saw that differently until Brown got hurt there was a reason Brown was starting, if he had not have gotten hurt then Ballard would not have had the # of carries he had nor the yards, keep in mind he still only averaged 3.9ypc at the end of the year which was the same as Browns, Ballard also managed only 2 rushing td's, As per Hughes over Freeney in this defense, you bet I would have taken Hughes over him, Hughes is the better ALL AROUND player, Also pure speculation on your part that I would lose my job as GM if I was one

 

 

Avery is a journeyman WR obviously replaceable in FA . In Grigsons opinion . I think they will bring in someone else to be the #2 , Ty Hilton looked good as a rookie & yes he did earn the chance to be #2 . We'll see .

For me the Brown - Ballard debate IMO  ??  Brown has been a disappointment , I had high hopes for him when the Colts drafted him . Ballard a rookie played better in 1 year than Brown has in his entire career as a Colt IMO . Brown has this year to finally prove his self . While Ballard rushed for I believe 800 yrds behind our swiss chesse O-line I notice 3.9 yrds per carry for Ballard  . IMO he can do better next year easily a 1000 yrds RB  . So IMO the only debate for me is can Brown stay healthy & Run for a 1000 yrds behind a improved line , I say no .

 

Freeney did good as a Colt in the 4-3 . In the 3-4 last year Freeney failed & Mathis looked pretty good most the time , Jerry Hughes will get his chance this year like Brown he needs to step up .

[dw49]

What is it with you and being such a condescending, pretentious *?

 

Then perhaps you can explain why the number of CB's drafted in rounds 1 and 2 over the past few years far outweighs the number of ILB's and Safeties drafted in those same rounds?

 

 

They also make a lot more money than LB's or Safeties.

[ColtStrong]

Okay, you sound stupid now.

Look in the mirror.

[John Waylon]

I'll trust in Grigson until we see him on the field.

 

Reviews on him don't seem to be all too favorable, but maybe he'll be our "Tim Jennings to the Bears". He'll come in and set the world on fire.

 

If he doesn't, however, paying him what we are on the first day of free agency is going to look pretty bad on Grigson.

 

I was actually wondering if maybe Phillip Wheeler may have been worth bringing back before FA started, and shifting Mathis to rush and putting him out there, which is strange because I was never a fan of Wheeler, but I think he could have been useful in that spot. Moot point, I know, because Miami decided to get him for waaay too much.

 

We'll see how it works.

[Gavin]

I thought it to be better to move Mathis to rush and insert Jerry to Mathis's former role, Jerry played well last year in limited action, Given Waldens contract I think he is looked at as the starter, My question is are they gonna bite the bullet and concede that he is not starter material IF he is not and let Hughes continue to grow into the position

[Jason_]

I thought it to be better to move Mathis to rush and insert Jerry to Mathis's former role, Jerry played well last year in limited action, Given Waldens contract I think he is looked at as the starter, My question is are they gonna bite the bullet and concede that he is not starter material IF he is not and let Hughes continue to grow into the position

 

Well I stated this in an earlier thread but to reiterate, I don't think that Walden will be an every down player.  What he has been praised for so far by the FO is his ability to set the edge.  That leads me to think he'll be in to play the run, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Hughes on the field opposite Mathis in passing situations.  In fact I'd be surprised if Hughes were NOT on the field in passing situations unless Walden shows some pass rushing ability in Training camp and preseason.  

 

Plus I'm sure they'll use Hughes to help spell Mathis so Hughes will likely see the field quite a bit this year, unless they draft a rookie who outperforms Hughes in TC and Preseason.  My guess is that Hughes will be on the field enough to reach double digit sacks so it'll be on him to pick up from last year and continue to improve.  

[BOTT]

Vikings led the league in sacks in 2011 with 50, they were 26th in passing yards allowed

2011-Patriots 40 sacks good for 14th in the league was 31st in yards allowed 

2011-Giants were 29th in passing yards allowed they had 48 sacks good for 3rd best

2011 Cowboys-42 sacks good for 10th in the league was 23rd worst in yards allowed

 

I can go on but its rather pointless as your going to dismiss this anyway, Ill finish my thought with this, a team can get to the QB a ton of times a season like those teams did in that year above but if your Corners are constantly giving up a high pass completion rate then it does not matter how many sacks you get because on the very next play those yards can be made up with a completed pass if your Corners are not up to par

Sacks don't equal consistent pressure. I know you you will state "obviously", but why keep posting those sacks totals? Did anybody really think NE had a good pass rush in 2011? No

[BrentMc11]

I thought it to be better to move Mathis to rush and insert Jerry to Mathis's former role, Jerry played well last year in limited action, Given Waldens contract I think he is looked at as the starter, My question is are they gonna bite the bullet and concede that he is not starter material IF he is not and let Hughes continue to grow into the position

Hughes and Walden will compete...that is what Pagano wants.  Anybody should have noticed that Hughes was solid in the Mathis role last year.  Walden is more of a 'stay at home' LB....kooks to be a good camp with great competition...

 

I was kind of amazed how big Walden looked by Sidbury....I think Walden is ready to shine for Pags...and Hughes will battle...good stuff.

[Nostrils]

My god Walden shoulda bin had at about 1.5m he is nobody

 

 

a nobody, according to the nobody sitting behind his computer screen...