the solution to the o-line

[danlhart87]

I want the Colts to either sign Urbik or Rinehart from the Bills. The RT situation is a bit of a tossup right now but I am sure can be helped through the draft!

[Gavin]

Dont know much about them but in my opinion our solution is the draft

[OLD FAN MAN]

our gm knows o-lines, trust him

[Gavin]

I trusted him and he brought in Mike Mcglynn and Winston Justice, Im gonna go out on a limb and say just because he was a former O Lineman doesnt mean he is actually good at picking talented ones up or that he knows what to look for that matter, yeah I know some think Im being negative again but I call it realistic, just my opinions of course from what I have seen from Mcglynn and Justice here as well as Cincy (Mcglynn and Philly (Justice and Mcglynn)

[Coffeedrinker]

our gm knows o-lines, trust him

There is really no evidence to support that assumption yet.

[GrizzColt]

This is an interesting article from the national football post regarding the fact that there are no more dominant offensive lines in the nfl anymore. It really is true IMO.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-3466.html

[Smonroe]

I want the Colts to either sign Urbik or Rinehart from the Bills. The RT situation is a bit of a tossup right now but I am sure can be helped through the draft!

So your solution is to sign a guy who's already signed by another team? I would assume you mean we'd have to trade for him, right? What's your proposal and how does he fit in our cap?

If you're just whistling in the wind, why not say we should sign Jake Long?

[danlhart87]

So your solution is to sign a guy who's already signed by another team? I would assume you mean we'd have to trade for him, right? What's your proposal and how does he fit in our cap?

If you're just whistling in the wind, why not say we should sign Jake Long?

We would have to sign them in 2013 I mean. From what I can remember they were both possibly gonna be FA and with the addition of Glenn to their line I doubt they will sign both of them again.

[grmasterb]

I trusted him and he brought in Mike Mcglynn and Winston Justice, Im gonna go out on a limb and say just because he was a former O Lineman doesnt mean he is actually good at picking talented ones up or that he knows what to look for that matter, yeah I know some think Im being negative again but I call it realistic, just my opinions of course from what I have seen from Mcglynn and Justice here as well as Cincy (Mcglynn and Philly (Justice and Mcglynn)

Pro-bowl caliber talent is generally not available in free agency or off the waiver wire. Furthermore, Grigson was constrained by cap space and the need to fill holes at other positions. I think he's done as well as could be expected given the cards dealt. Nobody is suggesting that guys like Justice and McGlynn are long-term solutions. They'll be replaced over the next few seasons with FAs and draft picks.

[Gavin]

Pro-bowl caliber talent is generally not available in free agency or off the waiver wire. Furthermore, Grigson was constrained by cap space and the need to fill holes at other positions. I think he's done as well as could be expected given the cards dealt. Nobody is suggesting that guys like Justice and McGlynn are long-term solutions. They'll be replaced over the next few seasons with FAs and draft picks.

agreed

[Balzer40]

There is really no evidence to support that assumption yet.

I don't know, the fact that he's been working in the NFL for 13 yrs. as a pro scout, director of college scouting, director of player personal, and now.......a General Manager, is pretty good evidence to me. In the meantime, the rest of us are sitting in front of our computer's second guessing everything he's done. He's gonna make mistakes there's no doubt about that, but even the great and all powerful wizard of GM's......Bill Polian, made plenty of mistakes.

[Gavin]

I don't know, the fact that he's been working in the NFL for 13 yrs. as a pro scout, director of college scouting, director of player personal, and now.......a General Manager, is pretty good evidence to me. In the meantime, the rest of us are sitting in front of our computer's second guessing everything he's done. He's gonna make mistakes there's no doubt about that, but even the great and all powerful wizard of GM's......Bill Polian, made plenty of mistakes.

Mistakes CANT be made at 2 spots more then any others (Quarterback and O Line) the QB can make the O Line look somewhat average but only the offensive line can make your running back look good (unless your name is Barry Sanders). I believe Mcglynn and Justice are here do to limited cap and that they are familiar to Grigson not because they actually have talent and IF Grigsons idea of a talented O Line is Mcglynn and Justice, god help us all

[GoColts8818]

Dont know much about them but in my opinion our solution is the draft

I think it's more likely the solution will be found with some of our free agent money next year. They are going to want guys ready to protect Luck now and as we have seen with Castonzo while rookies can play as rookies they often aren't finished products right away.

[Gavin]

I think it's more likely the solution will be found with some of our free agent money next year. They are going to want guys ready to protect Luck now and as we have seen with Castonzo while rookies can play as rookies they often aren't finished products right away.

Im also looking at it from a potential standpoint, I would rather draft a 1st round O Lineman in for example Barrett Jones or a Chance Warmack then someone thats a veteran but has proven to have less potential whos more often then not a journeyman O Lineman, 1 exception I would have if he isnt resigned would be Duane Brown but I expect he will be

[Balzer40]

Mistakes CANT be made at 2 spots more then any others (Quarterback and O Line) the QB can make the O Line look somewhat average but only the offensive line can make your running back look good (unless your name is Barry Sanders). I believe Mcglynn and Justice are here do to limited cap and that they are familiar to Grigson not because they actually have talent and IF Grigsons idea of a talented O Line is Mcglynn and Justice, god help us all

Well, you already know why they are here, and I agree, there really wasn't many more options with the limited money he had to work with. with that said, what is the point in constantly pointing out that out right side of the O-line isn't where we all want it to be? Contstantly repeating it is not going to fix the problem. We just need to be patient, hope they can be adequate this season and look forward to upgrades next season. Grigson bringing in Justice and McGlynn this yr. is not an indictment on his talent evaluating skill, more of the fact that he needed a couple of cheap bodies to get through this season.

[southwest1]

Dont know much about them but in my opinion our solution is the draft

There is really no evidence to support that assumption yet.

Gavin and Coffeedrinker are exactly right. Next year our franchise will have considerable cash to spend on the o-line and Pagano is good on defense, but that doesn't mean he can mold talent yet. Any DC with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and T-sizzle on it looks like a genius. Let's wait until about week 8 to judge Pagano's ability to solidify our line first. Thank you.

[Superman]

I trusted him and he brought in Mike Mcglynn and Winston Justice, Im gonna go out on a limb and say just because he was a former O Lineman doesnt mean he is actually good at picking talented ones up or that he knows what to look for that matter, yeah I know some think Im being negative again but I call it realistic, just my opinions of course from what I have seen from Mcglynn and Justice here as well as Cincy (Mcglynn and Philly (Justice and Mcglynn)

You make it seem like Grigson moved heaven and earth to bring those two guys in, and is now building the line around them. They are the very definition of stop-gap players, and they cost us next to nothing.

When Grigson applies some significant assets to a lineman, and he doesn't work out, then we can point to them as evidence that he doesn't know linemen. But Justice and McGlynn shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

[coltsguy510]

Our solution will be to draft Chance Warmack in a year.

[gbrads_rants]

Warmack looks like a culmination of all my nightmares....he is a frickin' monster....Yeah he needs to get picked up

[GoColts8818]

Im also looking at it from a potential standpoint, I would rather draft a 1st round O Lineman in for example Barrett Jones or a Chance Warmack then someone thats a veteran but has proven to have less potential whos more often then not a journeyman O Lineman, 1 exception I would have if he isnt resigned would be Duane Brown but I expect he will be

Right. I am not going to say we should sign average players. With that said we will have money next year we can sign some really good players and if they are on the market that might very well be a better option than going threw the draft.

[ztboiler]

Given that we only have 3 picks in the next draft (1,3,4) and maybe a 6,7 conditionally, there is every reason to believe that we'll exit free agency with a minimum of 2 starting caliber offensive lineman on fairly sizable contracts. That won't preclude us from drafting an OL high in the first round, but I don't see Grigson constraining himself by need in the first round either. He was pretty disciplined last draft with a BPA philosophy. Fleener/Allen back to back showed that. Therefore, I don't see him entering the draft saying "I have to draft a starting O lineman in the first round". He'll treat the need via free agency in this case - he knows he can't leave it to chance. He also knows that he may want to use that first pick to draft a rare talent on the D Line, OLB or CB.

[coltsguy510]

Given that we only have 3 picks in the next draft (1,3,4) and maybe a 6,7 conditionally, there is every reason to believe that we'll exit free agency with a minimum of 2 starting caliber offensive lineman on fairly sizable contracts. That won't preclude us from drafting an OL high in the first round, but I don't see Grigson constraining himself by need in the first round either. He was pretty disciplined last draft with a BPA philosophy. Fleener/Allen back to back showed that. Therefore, I don't see him entering the draft saying "I have to draft a starting O lineman in the first round". He'll treat the need via free agency in this case - he knows he can't leave it to chance. He also knows that he may want to use that first pick to draft a rare talent on the D Line, OLB or CB.

There aren't very many good OG's and Warmack is a tier above even Decastro as a prospect. He's even nastier than Decastro. Our whole team is built around Luck and if he gets hurt, the rebuild is almost useless. Warmack will also open holes for Brown and Ballard.

[throwing BBZ]

There aren't very many good OG's and Warmack is a tier above even Decastro as a prospect. He's even nastier than Decastro. Our whole team is built around Luck and if he gets hurt, the rebuild is almost useless. Warmack will also open holes for Brown and Ballard.

I am 100% behind having a Great O-Line. Andrews greatest value comes with time to throw and staying healthy.

This year we loaded up on targets for him to develope timing with, next year we build the MONSTER Fortress in front of him. grrrr!

[ztboiler]

There aren't very many good OG's and Warmack is a tier above even Decastro as a prospect. He's even nastier than Decastro. Our whole team is built around Luck and if he gets hurt, the rebuild is almost useless. Warmack will also open holes for Brown and Ballard.

It may very well work out that way with Warmack - fine by me if it does. Still, there is no way that we exit free agency with strategy contingent on Warmack's draft grade and availability, or any other player for that matter, for the very reasons you just listed about protecting Luck. It isn't either or, it's both.

[krunk]

This is an interesting article from the national football post regarding the fact that there are no more dominant offensive lines in the nfl anymore. It really is true IMO.

http://www.nationalf...Blitz-3466.html

I don't know about that. When I watch that line that is currently blocking for Peyton I see a dominant O-Line

[HtownColt]

Justice has just been too inconsistent he had some good momemts and had some bad ones he is just too up and down hopefully he has more ups than downs in the season(i wouldnt bank on it but i hope). and as far as McGlynn, I couldnt really get a fair assesment on being that he only played one quarter this preseason(and it was a bad one) but it wasnt as bad as Seth Olsen's play this preseason. we will get a real assesment on McGlynn come Sunday but thats if he is healthy enough to play

[krunk]

Gavin and Coffeedrinker are exactly right. Next year our franchise will have considerable cash to spend on the o-line and Pagano is good on defense, but that doesn't mean he can mold talent yet. Any DC with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and T-sizzle on it looks like a genius. Let's wait until about week 8 to judge Pagano's ability to solidify our line first. Thank you.

-

Yeah but you have to understand they also won multiple games without Ed Reed and Ray Lewis.

That should tell you a good bit about Pagano. Almost immediately from the first pre-season game

many of us could see that the defense was improved and playing with a different mentality, and

everyone knows at this point our D has mid level talent so that should speak to Pagano and his

ability to mold and shape this defense.

[NewColtsFan]

Our solution will be to draft Chance Warmack in a year.

You just can't put all your chips on one player. Not unless you're drafting 1st overall, and even in that case, only if you love the player you want to take. Because otherwise, you have to trade back and take what's there.

Who knows where we'll finish. And who knows who else also loves Chance Warmack. So, if we pick, 10th, or 15th, or 20th, then there are LOTS of other teams who get their shot at Chance Warmack before we do.

You have to find lots of players you like and are willing to take. We don't have the assets to target one player and trade up. So, our chances of focusing on just one guy and getting that one guy when we're likely drafting in the middle of the first round are very, very small.

[NewColtsFan]

More than any other position group, offensive line takes the longest to gel. And how long has it been for this group? Not 4 games, because they've only played a portion of each game. So, it's closer in total quarters to two games. That's it.

Some offensive lins take a half a season to a whole season to fully come together. It takes time.

And no one here has seen nearly enough of Mike McGlynn and Winston Justice to make any definitive statement. Not unless you do this for a living. And the guys who do do this for a living say they can play for us.

Remember, we also didn't have any money to go out and buy a top notch FA lineman this past off-season. I don't know what you guys expect? You know what our issues are. They get discussed here every week. And yet we get the same posts...

Linkenbach sucks! McGlynn is terrible! Justice can't play! Why are they on our roster?!?

Well, for right now, they're the best we've got. No one else is walking through our front door. This is it.

Better brace yourselves. We start a 16 game season this week.... and it's going to be a wild roller-coaster ride!

[southwest1]

-

Yeah but you have to understand they also won multiple games without Ed Reed and Ray Lewis.

That should tell you a good bit about Pagano. Almost immediately from the first pre-season game

many of us could see that the defense was improved and playing with a different mentality, and

everyone knows at this point our D has mid level talent so that should speak to Pagano and his

ability to mold and shape this defense.

I'm not doubting what you say Krunk. But, it's like a nice resume with good credentials on it. They may get your hired and through the front door, but once you're hired you still need to prove and validate your worth to the new organization. Preseason is meaningless. Let's see what you do when the clock starts ticking for real when games really matter. Show me your drive to win, your management style, and your willingness to adapt and adjust on the fly. I only need to see how you handle adversity once then I'm usually sold on a guy's tenacity and intestinal fortitude. Show me my faith in you is not misplaced. EARN MY TRUST.

[krunk]

I'm not doubting what you say Krunk. But, it's like a nice resume with good credentials on it. They may get your hired and through the front door, but once you're hired you still need to prove and validate your worth to the new organization. Preseason is meaningless. Let's see what you do when the clock starts ticking for real when games really matter. Show me your drive to win, your management style, and your willingness to adapt and adjust on the fly. I only need to see how you handle adversity once then I'm usually sold on a guy's tenacity and intestinal fortitude. Show me my faith in you is not misplaced. EARN MY TRUST.

I feel you! But to me it's like a book, after you buy the book you start to learn about the book in the "Preface" or whatever you call the short introduction before you get into the meat of the book or what we call chapter 1. Alot of people when they buy a book they will skip over the "Preface" thinking that the real value of the book starts from Chapter 1, but there is a lot of incite you can gain about your valuation of the book if you take the time out to look over the "Preface".

So what I'm saying is we can not throw out the pre-season in our evaluation of Pagano because it is like the "Preface". There are various signs you can pick up about people and players in pre-season that carry over to the real season. In my opinion it's not totally worthless because Pagano began proving his resume in the pre-season or the "preface". There is some value in the pre-season and what I have seen is good. We have already been tested by adversity in the Pittsburgh and Washington games and I think we responded pretty good. So we have some early signs that are revealing about this coaching staff and players. Things like intensity, effort, lack of penalties due to discipline, physicality, lack of busted coverages and other things we saw in the pre-season are things I am almost certain will carry over into the regular season. They are a direct function of what is being taught by Pagano and his staff and we have learned these things in pre-season so there is value.

Just my 2 cents!

[OLD FAN MAN]

More than any other position group, offensive line takes the longest to gel. And how long has it been for this group? Not 4 games, because they've only played a portion of each game. So, it's closer in total quarters to two games. That's it.

Some offensive lins take a half a season to a whole season to fully come together. It takes time.

And no one here has seen nearly enough of Mike McGlynn and Winston Justice to make any definitive statement. Not unless you do this for a living. And the guys who do do this for a living say they can play for us.

Remember, we also didn't have any money to go out and buy a top notch FA lineman this past off-season. I don't know what you guys expect? You know what our issues are. They get discussed here every week. And yet we get the same posts...

Linkenbach sucks! McGlynn is terrible! Justice can't play! Why are they on our roster?!?

Well, for right now, they're the best we've got. No one else is walking through our front door. This is it.

Better brace yourselves. We start a 16 game season this week.... and it's going to be a wild roller-coaster ride!

you said it all right there, i agree, I think our o-line is better than last year

[funktacious2]

I know it's not the popular pick, but a 1st round offensive lineman would be awesome next year.

[Gavin]

Hey it popular to me to keep Luck from running for his life

[NewColtsFan]

Hey, I'm not trying to be a 1st class jerk here.... (I know, I know, too late!)

I've got the same concerns that everyone else here does. I lose sleep worrying about our OL.

Remember, I'm here because Andrew is here. I want him healthy. I don't want him hurt. I don't want so much as a hair on his Ugly Neck Beard to be out of place. (But, could you tell if it was??)

I want him as 'clean' and as un-harmed as possible.

Do I want better lineman?!? Heck Yeah!! But it's not happening until Year 2. We've got to keep Andrew healthy until then. If it means a TE has to stay in and help, then so be it. If it mean that one of the RB's helps, then that's what happens. If it means more 3 and 5-step drops and throws and fewer 7-step drops, then that's what we do as well.

Keep Andrew alive!!

I just don't see what we gain by trashing what we've got, or by trashing Grigson. He was dealt a bad hand. He's playing it as best he can. Let's judge him not only by this year, but by what he can do when he's got chips to play and money to spend!

[Balzer40]

Hey, I'm not trying to be a 1st class jerk here.... (I know, I know, too late!)

I've got the same concerns that everyone else here does. I lose sleep worrying about our OL.

Remember, I'm here because Andrew is here. I want him healthy. I don't want him hurt. I don't want so much as a hair on his Ugly Neck Beard to be out of place. (But, could you tell if it was??)

I want him as 'clean' and as un-harmed as possible.

Do I want better lineman?!? Heck Yeah!! But it's not happening until Year 2. We've got to keep Andrew healthy until then. If it means a TE has to stay in and help, then so be it. If it mean that one of the RB's helps, then that's what happens. If it means more 3 and 5-step drops and throws and fewer 7-step drops, then that's what we do as well.

Keep Andrew alive!!

I just don't see what we gain by trashing what we've got, or by trashing Grigson. He was dealt a bad hand. He's playing it as best he can. Let's judge him not only by this year, but by what he can do when he's got chips to play and money to spend!

I agree. The constant non-stop complaining about the o-line is not only useless, it's also very annoying. Nobody here thinks we have an all-pro line from left to right, but it is what we got and it's just better to hope they get better as time goes on and keep rooting for the team. Your right, Grigson was left with a pile of doo-doo to clean up and with very little resources to do it with. IMO he has done a pretty remarkable job. People can second guess all they want, but given the state of the team when he took over, I don't see how he could have done any better.

It's always amazing to me that people will say "well, we could have got this guy or that guy and he would have been better". Thats an unknown, but it also takes both sides to make a deal. Just because we wanted a certain guy don't mean that guy wanted to be here. The bottom line is, the o-line is not great, but IMO they could be a lot worse and they were in the last couple of yrs. IMO.

[Andy]

The only solution the Colts have for the line now is to trade for:

Joe Thomas

Carl Nicks

Nick Mangold

Jahri Evans

David Stewart

It looks like the Colts will just have to wait out this year and get a tackle in the draft next year, b/c no signing or waiver pickup will help this O-line.

[NewColtsFan]

The only solution the Colts have for the line now is to trade for:

Joe Thomas

Carl Nicks

Nick Mangold

Jahri Evans

David Stewart

It looks like the Colts will just have to wait out this year and get a tackle in the draft next year, b/c no signing or waiver pickup will help this O-line.

Nice O-line....

But I must confess I had heard of all of them except one. Stewart. I looked him up and see that he was a 4th round pick from Mississippi State and starts for Tennessee on their right side. Nice find!!

I'm way behind the curve on personnel. I suspect I'll be looking up lots and lots of players if I'm going to be able to keep up with you and the rest here!

Yikes!!

[southwest1]

I feel you! But to me it's like a book, after you buy the book you start to learn about the book in the "Preface" or whatever you call the short introduction before you get into the meat of the book or what we call chapter 1. Alot of people when they buy a book they will skip over the "Preface" thinking that the real value of the book starts from Chapter 1, but there is a lot of incite you can gain about your valuation of the book if you take the time out to look over the "Preface".

So what I'm saying is we can not throw out the pre-season in our evaluation of Pagano because it is like the "Preface". There are various signs you can pick up about people and players in pre-season that carry over to the real season. In my opinion it's not totally worthless because Pagano began proving his resume in the pre-season or the "preface". There is some value in the pre-season and what I have seen is good. We have already been tested by adversity in the Pittsburgh and Washington games and I think we responded pretty good. So we have some early signs that are revealing about this coaching staff and players. Things like intensity, effort, lack of penalties due to discipline, physicality, lack of busted coverages and other things we saw in the pre-season are things I am almost certain will carry over into the regular season. They are a direct function of what is being taught by Pagano and his staff and we have learned these things in pre-season so there is value.

Just my 2 cents!

An interesting preseason preface analogy there krunk. Preseason preparation and performance does matter and I agree we hung tough during the Steelers and Redskins games, not necessarily score wise, but confidence wise anyway. I never read the Preface myself. I look at the copyright date, the table of contents, footnotes, and analysts I respect. Tackling, speed to the ball, and a desire to exert your will can usually be detected best once the season starts for real and the Air Force convey flies over an NFL stadium in my book.

[southwest1]

The only solution the Colts have for the line now is to trade for:

Joe Thomas

Carl Nicks

Nick Mangold

Jahri Evans

David Stewart

It looks like the Colts will just have to wait out this year and get a tackle in the draft next year, b/c no signing or waiver pickup will help this O-line.

I really like Joe Thomas who I saw up close and frequently at UW-Madison. Nick Mangold would be a fine Center too. Good luck trying to convince Browns President Mike Holmgren or Jets HC Rex Ryan to trade either of those superstar NFL power pigs on their lines though. Never gonna transpire in a million years. Nice list though Andy.