the solution to the o-line

[KarlKuffs]

It seems to me o line, especially the right side, is a concern for a majority of teams. I also find it interesting that the Titans and Texans have (IMHO) 2 of the top 5 Right-OT in the league.

One thing people tend to forget, the o-line takes a long time to grow into a cohesive unit. The consistency of a unit that knows each other, their responsibilities, and can communicate with each other when noise levels are excessive cannot be underestimated. We have what we have, coach them and let them grow into the best unti they can be as quickly as possible. If/when we get a chance for a significant upgrade, then do it and re-start the unit jelling process again.

Derek Newton? Top 5 RT in the league?

I would vehemently disagree with that.

[Gavin]

Yep Edge ran for 1000+ yards every year for the Colts except 2, 2001 and 2002 after that he had 5 more 1000+ yard seasons 3 of those came with the Colts, the other two with the Cardinals he was a great Back

[ColtsBlueFL]

Derek Newton? Top 5 RT in the league?

I would vehemently disagree with that.

Eric Winston #1 and David Stewart #4 in my book. Is Stewart no longer on the Titans or Winston with the Texans? I haven't checked lately...

EDIT:

I see Winston is now a Chief beginning this year, because he wouldn't restructure with Texans. Then I agree with you about the Texans, but I stick by Winston which I was (incorrectly) alluding to... He's still at the top IMHO until this year begins. Carry on.

[KarlKuffs]

Eric Winston #1 and David Stewart #4 in my book. Is Stewart no longer on the Titans or Winston with the Texans? I haven't checked lately...

Winston was cut by the Texans......he's now on the Chiefs.

He was a top 5 RT.....you are correct. A top 2-3, actually. That is a BIG loss for them.....one that nobody ever seems to want to point out.

[Gavin]

Winston was cut by the Texans......he's now on the Chiefs.

He was a top 5 RT.....you are correct. A top 2-3, actually. That is a BIG loss for them.....one that nobody ever seems to want to point out.

I expect our coaches will point that out a time or two or I hope they do

[ColtsBlueFL]

Winston was cut by the Texans......he's now on the Chiefs.

He was a top 5 RT.....you are correct. A top 2-3, actually. That is a BIG loss for them.....one that nobody ever seems to want to point out.

Agree vehemently!

[KarlKuffs]

I expect our coaches will point that out a time or two or I hope they do

I'd attack that right side of the Texan line. It's an obvious weakness, with them losing both starters, including the aforementioned elite RT. That, coupled with Matt Schaub being about as elusive as an iceberg, means it shouldn't be too tough getting pressure on him.....causing him to panic & make mistakes.

[Gavin]

I'd attack that right side of the Texan line. It's an obvious weakness, with them losing both starters, including the aforementioned elite RT. That, coupled with Matt Schaub being about as elusive as an iceberg, means it shouldn't be too tough getting pressure on him.....causing him to panic & make mistakes.

first thing is to shut down the run and to do that Freeney/Mathis/Redding/Moala/Matthews/Nevis can not break containment if they do its to easy to just run right at Freeney for easy yards, also as for Schaub, we have to pay attention to him rolling out because he did that on the 1st two plays game 1 last year and it worked really well do to our Linebackers biting on the run, The first pass was a big completion to Johnson and the second 1 Johnson batted up into the air because the pass was a little high and Bullit I believe it was got the pick

[#12]

Edge lead the league in rushing twice while Polian was here and from 98 to 07 the Colts had a 1,000 yard back every year except for one and that was the year that Edge was coming off a major knee injury. They had four different running backs go over 1,000 yards over that time as well as producing several Pro-Bowl trips for Glenn and Saturday during that time as well as several pro-bowl running backs. They also had one of the least sacked QBs (and no that was not ALL Manning's release) in the NFL and were the back bone to the Super Bowl run in 2006. If that's not a really good O-line if not great I don't know what is. This is an example of people looking at recent history and trying to apply that to the whole Polian era and that is just not the case.

1,000 yards isn't much of a benchmark in a 16 game season. I posted the numbers here recently. During Polian's tenure, the Colts were near the bottom of the league in YPA. They were one of the worst rushing teams in the league. They only broke 4.0 YPA 6 times in 14 years. That's bad. James did put up big numbers, but only because he got every rushing attempt. As a team and on average they were never a great rushing team.

[ColtsBlueFL]

first thing is to shut down the run and to do that Freeney/Mathis/Redding/Moala/Matthews/Nevis can not break containment if they do its to easy to just run right at Freeney for easy yards, also as for Schaub, we have to pay attention to him rolling out because he did that on the 1st two plays game 1 last year and it worked really well do to our Linebackers biting on the run, The first pass was a big completion to Johnson and the second 1 Johnson batted up into the air because the pass was a little high and Bullit I believe it was got the pick

Kubiak was an understudy to Shanahan in when they were in Denver. The boot and naked boot are frequent plays in their arsenal. Can work, but also end up in a Rosencopter.... ;)

[Gavin]

Kubiak was an understudy to Shanahan in when they were in Denver. The boot and naked boot are frequent plays in their arsenal. Can work, but also end up in a Rosencopter.... ;)

well thats where Schaubs 2nd pass ended up that 1st game

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

We had a good o-line most of the time Polian was here from 98 threw 07. It was only from about 08 to 11 that it was a mess. Not to say the last four years are excused by the first nine years or so but I think sometimes people (not you per say) tend to look at recent history and try to say that is the way it was the whole time and that's just not true.

You are correct people sometimes remember what they want. Our OL went to heck due to a number of bad decisions kinda all in a row.

1 Glynn retiring nothing you can do about that.

2 Not paying Jake Scott

3 The drafting of 3 centers in one draft which NONE are on the current roster espeicialy Pollack, trying to make him a guard, Richard who was horrable & Justice too small

4 The Uguh crap after his frist year he sucked, he had skills just no work or fire!!

5 Letting Lilya go.

6 ashame he POLLIAN won't get a chance to see the oputcome og Costanzo, The guy on IR

[GoColts8818]

1,000 yards isn't much of a benchmark in a 16 game season. I posted the numbers here recently. During Polian's tenure, the Colts were near the bottom of the league in YPA. They were one of the worst rushing teams in the league. They only broke 4.0 YPA 6 times in 14 years. That's bad. James did put up big numbers, but only because he got every rushing attempt. As a team and on average they were never a great rushing team.

If Donald Brown went for a 1,000 yards this year Colts fans would lose their mind and sing the praises of how the line has improved so don't tell me it's not much of a benchmark. I think it's more that you don't want it to be a benchmark because it helps to disprove the theory that the o-line was bad the whole time Polian was here. The Colts were a passing team and have always said the goal was to be able to run when they needed too. From 1998 to 2007 it was more than good enough and it was one of the better ones in the league including having the league's leading rusher in 1999 and 2000. They were never designed to be a great rushing team and with Peyton Manning as their QB they would have been stupid to be. With that said if you can't see the difference in the Colts line from 1998 to 2007 vs. from 2007 to now then I don't know what to tell you. From 1998 to 2007 you had to respect the Colts ground game because it could hurt you. Again from 1998 to 2007 the Colts o-line was as good as any o-line in football as a whole (which includes pass blocking not just run blocking). Also part of the reason the Colts YPA is so low is because of the types of backs they have used after his injury Edge, Rhodes, and Addai have not been break away backs that are going to rip off long runs to make that YPA go up. YPA can lie. For example because we had a break away back last year in Brown we averaged 4.2 on YPA last year are you honestly going to tell me that last year's o-line was better than the 2006 Super Bowl line that had a 4.0 YPA?

If you want to argue that the Colts were not a running team which they weren't that is a completely different argument to if the line was bad or not. This myth that people are trying to get going that Polian always built bad lines is just flat out not true. You can look at the numbers and see for yourself and that means more than looking at the YPC number, it means look at the number of 1,000 yard rushers they produced, how many 100 yard games they had, and how many sacks they gave up over that time. Yes it feel off after 2007 thanks in large part to his moves and he should take the blame for that but to say he didn't do a good job with the o-line form 1998 to 2007 is just flat out false.

[GoColts8818]

You are correct people sometimes remember what they want. Our OL went to heck due to a number of bad decisions kinda all in a row.

1 Glynn retiring nothing you can do about that.

2 Not paying Jake Scott

3 The drafting of 3 centers in one draft which NONE are on the current roster espeicialy Pollack, trying to make him a guard, Richard who was horrable & Justice too small

4 The Uguh crap after his frist year he sucked, he had skills just no work or fire!!

5 Letting Lilya go.

6 ashame he POLLIAN won't get a chance to see the oputcome og Costanzo, The guy on IR

That Ugoh Pick is the single biggest mistake of the Polian era. It cost us three draft picks. The pick we used to take him, the pick we traded to get him, and the pick we had to use to replace him.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I trusted him and he brought in Mike Mcglynn and Winston Justice, Im gonna go out on a limb and say just because he was a former O Lineman doesnt mean he is actually good at picking talented ones up or that he knows what to look for that matter, yeah I know some think Im being negative again but I call it realistic, just my opinions of course from what I have seen from Mcglynn and Justice here as well as Cincy (Mcglynn and Philly (Justice and Mcglynn)

I haven't read past this comment. So I'm not sure what others think. But really? He's not just a former olinemen. He is also a former scout. If my memory fails me I'm sorry but you also have to consider we have no cap space. He signed guys for cheap you expect them to be good? Next year we will see Ryan's talent whether he's good or not but to judge him now is a little too much.

[Gavin]

I haven't read past this comment. So I'm not sure what others think. But really? He's not just a former olinemen. He is also a former scout. If my memory fails me I'm sorry but you also have to consider we have no cap space. He signed guys for cheap you expect them to be good? Next year we will see Ryan's talent whether he's good or not but to judge him now is a little too much.

I know that now, wasn't taking into consideration the little cap space we had to work with before but if the cap #'s that were posted in another thread are right and they should be then we have I believe the # was 10 million or so, whatever happens I am ready for some Colts football!

[JWF]

Edge lead the league in rushing twice while Polian was here and from 98 to 07 the Colts had a 1,000 yard back every year except for one and that was the year that Edge was coming off a major knee injury. They had four different running backs go over 1,000 yards over that time as well as producing several Pro-Bowl trips for Glenn and Saturday during that time as well as several pro-bowl running backs. They also had one of the least sacked QBs (and no that was not ALL Manning's release) in the NFL and were the back bone to the Super Bowl run in 2006. If that's not a really good O-line if not great I don't know what is. This is an example of people looking at recent history and trying to apply that to the whole Polian era and that is just not the case.

Well put. I have been one of the biggest critics of the O-line the last few years but for a good portion of Manning's career the O-line was solid. After 2007 is when it really started falling apart. I think alot of people (including me at times) have wanted to see the Colts field an O-line like the Pats have had during Brady's career, which might be one of the best pass blocking O-lines ive ever seen.

[GoColts8818]

Well put. I have been one of the biggest critics of the O-line the last few years but for a good portion of Manning's career the O-line was solid. After 2007 is when it really started falling apart. I think alot of people (including me at times) have wanted to see the Colts field an O-line like the Pats have had during Brady's career, which might be one of the best pass blocking O-lines ive ever seen.

I am right there with you from 2008 on the o-line has been bad. No denying that. I can remember pointing that in 2008 and being ripped on here because people wanted to blame Addai. It took a few years for it to jump out to people but I think it has. The problem is nothing really has been done to fix it since 2008 other than drafting Castonzo and Ijalana. I know we had some later round picks on other o-lineman in there but they aren't real attempts IMO. There you are kinda hoping some guys can over play their draft positions. I think Grigson has started the process but the key word is process. It's not something that is going to happen over night. I think next year will be the year you see the Colts make a jump with the o-line because I expect them to spend some of their free agent money on it.

[Hans Moleman]

Our solution will be to draft Chance Warmack in a year.

This x 1000. That dude is a monster.

Too bad he wouldn't be bringing Jones with him lol. Both of those Dawgs are going to be excellent pros.

[coltsguy510]

Everyone keeps saying that they would rather get an OG in FA, rather than Warmack in the draft. First, not many good OG's that will be in FA this year and second, would you rather have a supremely talented OG, who paves monster holes and makes a great pocket, for Luck's entire career or a fa guard who makes holes occasionally and makes an okay pocket for Luck? I am not saying Warmack will definitely be the former, but he sure has a chance to.

[krunk]

An interesting preseason preface analogy there krunk. Preseason preparation and performance does matter and I agree we hung tough during the Steelers and Redskins games, not necessarily score wise, but confidence wise anyway. I never read the Preface myself. I look at the copyright date, the table of contents, footnotes, and analysts I respect. Tackling, speed to the ball, and a desire to exert your will can usually be detected best once the season starts for real and the Air Force convey flies over an NFL stadium in my book.

I can appreciate more of your side as well though. I remember when Dungy came to Indianapolis with a highly touted defensive background and pedigree. He did eventually turn the Colts D into a decent unit and in spurts a pretty good unit but it never was anything like the defense that they had in Tampa. So just because you have a great defensive resume doesn't mean it's going to turn out that way at all.

I hope our first game against the bears doesn't look anything like that first game of the Tony Dungy era we had against the Dolphins and Jay Fiedler. Do you remember that game? We looked absoultely horrible on defense! Ricky Williams ran through us as if we were made of cotton candy. All I can remember is Ricky busting long runs off left and right, and Jay Fiedler passing all over us!

That was a terrible game.

[Superman]

Everyone keeps saying that they would rather get an OG in FA, rather than Warmack in the draft. First, not many good OG's that will be in FA this year and second, would you rather have a supremely talented OG, who paves monster holes and makes a great pocket, for Luck's entire career or a fa guard who makes holes occasionally and makes an okay pocket for Luck? I am not saying Warmack will definitely be the former, but he sure has a chance to.

We could have both. What you're assuming is that Warmack is going to be a better option than a free agent. No one can know that for sure, obviously, although he seems to be a great prospect.

[Gavin]

We could have both. What you're assuming is that Warmack is going to be a better option than a free agent. No one can know that for sure, obviously, although he seems to be a great prospect.

I see the point though, I would rather have a first round talent OG/OT and risk him not working out then pick up a Guard or a Tackle thats been in the league a while and more often then not been a journyman like it appears to this point what have now on the right side

[Superman]

I see the point though, I would rather have a first round talent OG/OT and risk him not working out then pick up a Guard or a Tackle thats been in the league a while and more often then not been a journyman like it appears to this point what have now on the right side

Why would we be talking about a journeyman? Whose assumption is that?

If we have an opportunity to sign a quality free agent at guard or tackle, that's the only kind of player anyone would be comparing with a highly rated offensive line prospect in the draft. No one is talking about making a decision between some low level secondary market free agent instead of a high draft pick on the line.

By the way, the guys we've added this offseason all qualify as low level, secondary market guys, not moves that the front office is hanging their hopes on for the future.

[jimirsaysdog]

I see the point though, I would rather have a first round talent OG/OT and risk him not working out then pick up a Guard or a Tackle thats been in the league a while and more often then not been a journyman like it appears to this point what have now on the right side

still thinks he's smarter than grigson and pagano.

[a06cc]

Move Castonzo to the right side and draft a G and LT. Problem solved and has a chance of happening.

[Gavin]

Why would we be talking about a journeyman? Whose assumption is that?

If we have an opportunity to sign a quality free agent at guard or tackle, that's the only kind of player anyone would be comparing with a highly rated offensive line prospect in the draft. No one is talking about making a decision between some low level secondary market free agent instead of a high draft pick on the line.

By the way, the guys we've added this offseason all qualify as low level, secondary market guys, not moves that the front office is hanging their hopes on for the future.

because thats what Colts511 brought up, Chance Warmack or a Guard or Tackle from Free Agency next year and as it stands now most are journymen who in most cases if really worked out would not be Free Agents (obviously there are exceptions such as the Carl Nicks case but I think that was a money issue)I'd take Chance Warmack or Barrett Jones over a chance happening of an elite Guart or Tackle be on the market. I'd just take my chances that 1 of those is my future RG over the Free Agency scenario

[Superman]

because thats what Colts511 brought up, Chance Warmack or a Guard or Tackle from Free Agency next year and as it stands now most are journymen who in most cases if really worked out would not be Free Agents (obviously there are exceptions such as the Carl Nicks case but I think that was a money issue)I'd take Chance Warmack or Barrett Jones over a chance happening of an elite Guart or Tackle be on the market. I'd just take my chances that 1 of those is my future RG over the Free Agency scenario

Three elite guards made it to free agency last year (Nicks, Grubbs, Mathis), one of whom wasn't considered elite at the start of the season (Mathis). The other two switched teams. There was another handful of upper echelon linemen who made to free agency, and several of them switched teams (Eric Winston, Scott Wells, Demetress Bell, etc.) Most of the players we're talking about took the most money they could get.

Things change in a season. I'm not overly excited about any of the potential free agent linemen for next year, but one or two could emerge and have a great season, and the team they're on might consider them a cap casualty and let them leave without too much of a fight. It happens every year.

I view free agency as Mr. Fix-It: it's the method you use when you mess up in the draft, or when you leverage future drafts for improvement now. We've done both. We've missed on several draft picks over the last two or three years, including along the offensive line. I don't fault anyone for the Ijalana pick, but that's a second rounder from a year ago that we've gotten nothing out of, and it impacts our team negatively. Then we just traded our second rounder next season for Vontae Davis. I think many of those moves wouldn't have been made if we didn't have the cap space we'll have next season, knowing that we can address some needs in free agency.

We should address the offensive line in the draft next year, hoping to get a long-term solution for at least one position. But I don't think we should dismiss free agency, especially not six months in advance. We have significant room for improvement at three positions on the line. No reason we can't draft one, and then sign a quality free agent. And even signing a secondary market lineman to plug a hole for another year or two isn't a bad idea. But that's obviously not how you want to build your team for the future.

Also, free agency is before the draft. So if you don't have an opportunity to grab a lineman in free agency, you can devote more attention to it via the draft and even potential trades, which Grigson has shown a willingness to do.

[krunk]

You are correct people sometimes remember what they want. Our OL went to heck due to a number of bad decisions kinda all in a row.

1 Glynn retiring nothing you can do about that.

2 Not paying Jake Scott

3 The drafting of 3 centers in one draft which NONE are on the current roster espeicialy Pollack, trying to make him a guard, Richard who was horrable & Justice too small

4 The Uguh crap after his frist year he sucked, he had skills just no work or fire!!

5 Letting Lilya go.

6 ashame he POLLIAN won't get a chance to see the oputcome og Costanzo, The guy on IR

Isn't Jake Scott still available? I thought I saw a report saying he was still available

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Isn't Jake Scott still available? I thought I saw a report saying he was still available

He is should sign him now he is far better than any guard on our roster.

[needanoline63]

WE had a very good line in Pollians early years

Ahhh Glenn,Lila,Saturday,Scott and deim that was awesome

[throwing BBZ]

I trusted him and he brought in Mike Mcglynn and Winston Justice, Im gonna go out on a limb and say just because he was a former O Lineman doesnt mean he is actually good at picking talented ones up or that he knows what to look for that matter, yeah I know some think Im being negative again but I call it realistic, just my opinions of course from what I have seen from Mcglynn and Justice here as well as Cincy (Mcglynn and Philly (Justice and Mcglynn)

I have read some odd posts here, this is a top ten. JMO

[SubZero]

I want the Colts to either sign Urbik or Rinehart from the Bills. The RT situation is a bit of a tossup right now but I am sure can be helped through the draft!

Or we could have dumped Fleener for Glenn

[danlhart87]

Or we could have dumped Fleener for Glenn

Little too late for that now. Fleener will prove to be a pretty solid choice.

[WSO]

He is should sign him now he is far better than any guard on our roster.

I agree, would not hurt for the Colts to at least bring him in for a w/o.

[HtownColt]

I agree, would not hurt for the Colts to at least bring him in for a w/o.

Miami brought him in for two workouts and didn't sign him. Something is up with him that's not being said to the public

[ColtStrong]

If Donald Brown went for a 1,000 yards this year Colts fans would lose their mind and sing the praises of how the line has improved so don't tell me it's not much of a benchmark.

But the fact still remains that it's not much of a benchmark no matter what people say. 1000 yds is only 62 yds per game. To make it sound even more lame, it's 15 yds per quarter. Meh.

There, I just told you it's not much of a benchmark.

[Gavin]

But the fact still remains that it's not much of a benchmark no matter what people say. 1000 yds is only 62 yds per game. To make it sound even more lame, it's 15 yds per quarter. Meh.

There, I just told you it's not much of a benchmark.

Matt Forte only had 66.8 no one is Meh over that, ya dont have to have a ton of rushing yards to be effective you just have to be willing to run the ball enough to keep opposing teams pass rush honest

[ColtStrong]

Matt Forte only had 66.8 no one is Meh over that, ya dont have to have a ton of rushing yards to be effective you just have to be willing to run the ball enough to keep opposing teams pass rush honest

Let me put it another way. I'M not impressed. OK?

[GoColts8818]

But the fact still remains that it's not much of a benchmark no matter what people say. 1000 yds is only 62 yds per game. To make it sound even more lame, it's 15 yds per quarter. Meh.

There, I just told you it's not much of a benchmark.

Oh good night that's all you wanted was to play I told you so...People would disagree with you that it's a bench mark that's why people use it as one. Also the fact we haven't had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2007 would also support the argument that it is a good bench mark for us. Also nice of you to try to cherry pick my post just so you can play I told you so even when you didn't.