Colts Select Tanor Bortolini C

[GoColts8818]

10 minutes ago, Pelt said:

If missing playing time is special, then I can do without it. 

That’s what you get these kinds of QBs, it’s what those who weren’t all in on Richardson on draft day were worried about.  Still he’s who the Colts took so you have to use the player you took and not try to make him into something he’s not.  If they wanted the QB who wasn’t going to use his legs they might as well have drafted Levis.

[Old Man and the COLTS]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

Very trench heavy draft. Ballard must really trust the secondary.

Hopefully the trenchers help the secondary 

[RollerColt]

Just now, CR91 said:

Very trench heavy draft. Ballard must really trust the secondary.

In his own words, yes. Yes he does. Says they’re a year wiser in experience and need to keep playing. 

[BProland85]

Both Bortollini and AD Mitchell were guys I were mocking routinely to the Colts so happy we got them!

[Defjamz26]

Only knock on him is he has short arms (31”). But at center, that’s not a huge issue.

[Shive]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Dane is really good  

I've had The Beast open on my phone and laptop for the past couple of weeks. Definitely fell asleep at night reading it more times that I care to count. 🤣 

[stitches]

Just now, Shive said:

I've had The Beast open on my phone and laptop for the past couple of weeks. Definitely fell asleep at night reading it more times that I care to count. 🤣 

I sometimes wonder when an NFL team will poach him at high enough position to be worth his time... 

[rockywoj]

I figured they’d be looking to draft a Ryan Kelly’s eventual successor and I approve of that thinking.

[richard pallo]

6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

Very trench heavy draft. Ballard must really trust the secondary.

No doubt.  I expect we will sign Diggs after the draft.

[Pelt]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

That’s what you get these kinds of QBs, it’s what those who weren’t all in on Richardson on draft day were worried about.  Still he’s who the Colts took so you have to use the player you took and not try to make him into something he’s not.  If they wanted the QB who wasn’t going to use his legs they might as well have drafted Levis.

I'm fine with using the athleticism to extend plays that break down, but just dial back the designed runs a bit. I know they have their use - especially in the redzone and short yardage situations.

 

I'll stop now. Wrong thread for this 

 

[Dobbinblitz]

Colts have the Cash to fill remaining holes after Post June Cuts. You cannot fill everything in a 7 round draft. Ballard is doing well to address ream needs in this draft.

[chad72]

10 minutes ago, w87r said:

Buckner

Stewart

Davis

Lewis

Dayo

 

Not many snaps after that.

I was thinking about Dayo as DE, my bad.

[w87r]

Just now, chad72 said:

I was thinking about Dayo as DE, my bad.

He can play both, I think with Paye, Latu and Ekubam eating up a good chunk of DE snaps,

Dayo and Lewis will cover most of the rest of the extra DE/DT snaps.

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

39 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

Much better than French and Pinter IMO.

He might be

 

I just watched some senior bowl plays.  He was dominant in the week and in the game

 

He looked awesome in season highlights as well except one play that J Newton got by him

 

 

this is a great pick

[indyagent17]

Not the sexiest pic, but I never thought he would be here at this spot. Dominating player I’m not sold on Pinter and Kelly is getting older. Nice find 

[cbear]

19 minutes ago, Old Man and the COLTS said:

Hopefully the trenchers help the secondary 

Yes. Latu helps the secondary.

 

Their starting DB Flowers is back. The kids have a year of experience. They resigned Blackman and still have all the way to cut down day to add a vet if they want. 

[Dobbinblitz]

Instead of adding another rookie/ young player  I fully expect  that Ballard will add a veteran presence to the secondary. He has  done this several times before. With 3 5th rounders he will probably take a flyer on a High RAS  secondary player

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, cbear said:

Yes. Latu helps the secondary.

 

Their starting DB Flowers is back. The kids have a year of experience. They resigned Blackman and still have all the way to cut down day to add a vet if they want. 

They also have Jones who wasn’t exactly a bum on the outside last year.  They now have three corners who can start plus Moore.  That’s a lot by NFL standards.

[cbear]

23 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

That’s what you get these kinds of QBs, it’s what those who weren’t all in on Richardson on draft day were worried about.  Still he’s who the Colts took so you have to use the player you took and not try to make him into something he’s not.  If they wanted the QB who wasn’t going to use his legs they might as well have drafted Levis.

Very true. If they don't have designed runs for him, why pick him that high? That's part of the overall package. They knew the risk when they took him. 

 

That said, don't go nuts with it, but Steichen knows what he's doing. 

[cbear]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

They also have Jones who wasn’t exactly a bum on the outside last year.  They now have three corners who can start plus Moore.  That’s a lot by NFL standards.

I included Jones as one of the "kids." 👍

[stitches]

Dane Brugler's scouting report on Tanor Bortolini from his draft guide:

 

4. TANOR BORTOLINI | Wisconsin 6042 | 303 lbs. | 4JR Kewaunee, Wis. (Kewaunee) 6/18/2002 (age 21.85) #63

 

BACKGROUND: Tanor “Bort” Bortolini, the oldest of three children (two boys, one girl), grew up in the small town of Kewaunee (30 miles east of Green Bay on the shores of Lake Michigan). He grew up hunting, fishing and camping and was introduced to multiple sports throughout childhood, starting football at the pee-wee level (grew up a Green Bay Packers fan). Bortolini attended Kewaunee High School and started at left tackle on varsity as a freshman. He added defensive tackle responsibilities as a sophomore and played both ways his final three seasons. As a junior, Bortolini posted 69 tackles, 13.0 tackles for loss, 6.0 sacks and two forced fumbles, including a fumble return for a 20-yard touchdown. He was named the conference’s Player of the Year on both the offensive and defensive lines and helped Kewaunee to an 11-1 record and conference title (only loss came in the playoff quarterfinals).

 

As a senior, Bortolini earned first team All-State honors at left tackle (also played three games at center) and conference Defensive Player of the Year with 76 tackles and 16.0 tackles for loss. He also started on the basketball team and averaged 13.3 points and 10.3 rebounds per game as a se nior. Bortolini joined the track team as a sophomore (ran the 100 meters his first year) and took fourth in the shot put (46 feet, 3 inches) at the Division II state track meet as a junior.

 

A three-star recruit, Bortolini was the No. 64 offensive guard in the 2020 class and the No. 8 recruit in Wisconsin. Prior to his junior year of high school, he attended a recruiting camp at Wisconsin in June 2018, but at just 240 pounds was told by the coaches that he needed to add at least 20 pounds to be taken seriously as a Division I recruit. With a new diet and workout regiment, Bortolini reworked his body and received his first FCS offer (North Dakota) in January 2019. His first FBS offer arrived a month after that, from Syracuse, followed by several other FCS offers, like North Dakota State, South Dakota State and Illinois State. Bartolini grew up dreaming of playing for his home-state Badgers, but he was looking elsewhere because Wisconsin already had four offensive line commits in the 2020 class. However, the Wisconsin coaches were pleasantly surprised when Bortolini had bulked up to 275 pounds when they visited him in May 2019 and extended him an offer. Bortolini added offers from Iowa and Miami, but he couldn’t pass up the chance to stay home and play in Madison. He was the No. 11 recruit in former head coach Paul Chryst’s 2020 class. Bortolini elected to skip his final season of eligibility and enter the 2024 NFL Draft. He opted out of the 2023 bowl game and accepted his invitation to the 2024 Senior Bowl.

 

STRENGTHS: Above-average burst and lateral quickness to rapidly reach his landmarks and position himself … fluid athlete in space with smooth redirect skills to access various outside zone blocks, pulls and screens … throws his large hands tight into the chest of gap rushers to clamp and drive them wide … able to refit and battle, keeping defenders from gaining the upper hand … competitive finisher who doesn’t take his foot off the pedal … smoothly picks up stunting games and A-gap blitzes … highly intelligent, on and off the field (graduated from high school with a 3.98 GPA and 30 ACT; recruited by Harvard and Yale) … comfortable communicating calls at the line (Bortolini: “I like being in charge and making the final call.”) … offers outstanding position flexibility — practiced at all five offensive line spots and logged starts at five different positions; his knowledge of every position’s assignment on each play makes him a better center … career snaps broken up by position: center (53.6 percent), left guard (23.8 percent), right tackle (11.6 percent), right guard (9.1 percent).

 

WEAKNESSES: Short-armed blocker and often caught with his upper half overextended … mediocre square power and body mass and can be late establishing his anchor vs. bull rushers … guilty of hurrying his process and allowing his pads to rise, which forces himself to rec over from awkward angles … oversetting leaves him susceptible to counters … long-armed defenders are able to stack and punch off his frame, especially at the second level … suffered a partially torn meniscu s and damaged cartilage behind his right knee (Aug. 2022), requiring a minor procedure and sidelining him for the first two games of the 2022 season; missed three games in 2021 with a right knee sprain.

 

SUMMARY: A three-year starter at Wisconsin, Bortolini (and his Joe Tippman-inspired mullet) played center this past season in offensive coordinator Phil Longo’s multiple run scheme. After filling in at tackle, guard and center his first few seasons in Madison, he expected a return to guard in 2023, but an injury pushed him inside to center,where he anchored a Badgers’ offensive line that had the same starting five for all 12 regular-season games. Bortolini, who broke Jason Kelce’s combine record with the best three-cone (7.16 seconds) among interior linemen, might have the best combination of athleticism and smarts in this draft class. He lacks ideal length to create separation and is guilty of excessive forward lean into contact, but he will strain to finish cutoffs and eventually settle versus power rushers. Overall, Bortolini had persistent hiccups on his 2023 tape, but the guard-to-center transition is rarely immediate, and he offers encouraging upside, thanks to his fluidity, intelligence and technical skill. He projects as an eventual NFL starter with position flexibility across the interior.

 

GRADE: 3rd-4th Round

 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, boo2202 said:

Love the last two picks. 

I take it you decided not to jump off the wagon then huh?

[MacDee1975]

1 hour ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Colts have the Cash to fill remaining holes after Post June Cuts. You cannot fill everything in a 7 round draft. Ballard is doing well to address ream needs in this draft.

 

Except the glaring hole at starting cb.

 

Right now we are slated to start an udfa talent coming off an achilles tear.

[twfish]

20 minutes ago, MacDee1975 said:

 

Except the glaring hole at starting cb.

 

Right now we are slated to start an udfa talent coming off an achilles tear.

I mean Kenny Moore is a UDFA and he’s been doing okay…… not sure if flowers sub plants either Brent’s or Jones so he’s likely a back up. 

[boo2202]

5 hours ago, csmopar said:

I take it you decided not to jump off the wagon then huh?

Lol I’ve been done soooo many times. Might as well treat this team like other bad habits, they’re hard to kick. Ballard has sunk his teeth in this draft. It will either be great or get him fired. 

[w87r]

 

 

 

 

 

[GoColts8818]

7 hours ago, twfish said:

I mean Kenny Moore is a UDFA and he’s been doing okay…… not sure if flowers sub plants either Brent’s or Jones so he’s likely a back up. 

Some are way too hung up on draft position rather than if someone can play or not.

[r a y s k i]

Not familiar with him but after a little research some suggest him to be the best center prospect in this class

[Dobbinblitz]

Brugler:

 

Bortolini, who broke Jason Kelce’s combine record with the best three-cone (7.16 seconds) among interior linemen, might have the best combination of athleticism and smarts in this draft class.

He projects as an eventual NFL starter with position flexibility across the interior.

[Mikemccoy84]

Watching most the draft call videos you can really see a good connection between Shane and Ballard. I think Shane is changing how Ballard looks at certain type of players and he truly seems excited about the picks

[Colt Overseas]

Bortolini looked good out there at the Senior Bowl 1v1. Competition might not have been great but still looked solid. Athleticism shows.

 

 

 

 

 

[Superman]

On 4/27/2024 at 10:27 AM, stitches said:

 

Dane is really good  

 

On 4/27/2024 at 10:34 AM, Shive said:

I've had The Beast open on my phone and laptop for the past couple of weeks. Definitely fell asleep at night reading it more times that I care to count. 🤣 

 

I haven't paid much attention to Dane before this year's draft. He produces great content, and he's thoughtful, not reactionary or prone to hyperbole, etc. 

 

But is he good from a quality standpoint? Do his evaluations tend to hold up once players get drafted? Or does he mostly fall in with other draft guys in this area?

[RollerColt]

On 4/28/2024 at 6:22 PM, Mikemccoy84 said:

Watching most the draft call videos you can really see a good connection between Shane and Ballard. I think Shane is changing how Ballard looks at certain type of players and he truly seems excited about the picks

I think Shane is more of a football junkie compared to what Ballard has had in the past. Shane eats and breathes football. 

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

 

I haven't paid much attention to Dane before this year's draft. He produces great content, and he's thoughtful, not reactionary or prone to hyperbole, etc. 

 

But is he good from a quality standpoint? Do his evaluations tend to hold up once players get drafted? Or does he mostly fall in with other draft guys in this area?

You know my stand on this, right? Even multi-billion teams with huge scouting departments and resources get it right about 50% of the time and in the long run they they all run so close to each other that it's hard to separate them. I read some opinion piece a while ago that teams might as well go strictly off the consensus board with the caveat that you might take into account scheme fits and red flags and that the main value of scouts is in finding out character/attitude issues rather than evaluation of the prospects.

 

So to me the value in what people like Dane do is in informing about the prospects and about how teams feel about them. And like you mentioned I value that he's thoughtful and not reactionary(kind of why I love Greg Cosell, too). I don't really expect them to be any better than the consensus board and if he is better than the rest of the analysts at projecting it's probably not by much. And in that sense his guide is the most thoroughly researched piece of draft content I've seen. I've heard big names in the media credit him that they go to his guide for the background information on the prospects. And his evaluation is a dispassionate exposition of players strengths and weaknesses in which I have found him to be pretty good at too. But from then on... the projecting to the next level... Eh, no idea about his success rate and no idea how to even evaluate it.

I wonder if anyone has even tried to run some statistical analysis on the different media personalities actual ability to project players

[Superman]

31 minutes ago, stitches said:

You know my stand on this, right? Even multi-billion teams with huge scouting departments and resources get it right about 50% of the time and in the long run they they all run so close to each other that it's hard to separate them. I read some opinion piece a while ago that teams might as well go strictly off the consensus board with the caveat that you might take into account scheme fits and red flags and that the main value of scouts is in finding out character/attitude issues rather than evaluation of the prospects.

 

So to me the value in what people like Dane do is in informing about the prospects and about how teams feel about them. And like you mentioned I value that he's thoughtful and not reactionary(kind of why I love Greg Cosell, too). I don't really expect them to be any better than the consensus board and if he is better than the rest of the analysts at projecting it's probably not by much. And in that sense his guide is the most thoroughly researched piece of draft content I've seen. I've heard big names in the media credit him that they go to his guide for the background information on the prospects. And his evaluation is a dispassionate exposition of players strengths and weaknesses in which I have found him to be pretty good at too. But from then on... the projecting to the next level... Eh, no idea about his success rate and no idea how to even evaluate it.

I wonder if anyone has even tried to run some statistical analysis on the different media personalities actual ability to project players

 

All this is true, to an extent. But there are more and more people talking about the draft every year, and some of them are serious, while others are just making noise. No doubt Brugler is serious, he's been doing this extensive draft guide for years now. I think other guys might just be rearranging names on a list.

 

I'm not fully on board with the 'everyone is the same' angle. I get the idea, but there are a ton of factors involved when considering how player prospects turn out in the long run. And just because a player doesn't hit doesn't mean the evaluation was faulty. 

[Two_pound]

Bortolini was very good at the Senior Bowl. Technically sound and quick. I would not be surprised at all if either him or Concalves starts right guard this year, and I like Fries, I'm one of the few on here who doesn't think he sucks. We may be so good running the ball this year Richardson won't have to throw much(20-25 times a game?) This offense is going to be fun to watch and we should win a lot of games as long as we aren't playing cb's 10 yards off the line and dropping linebackers 12 yards deep on 3rd and 3. Go Colts!

[MikeCurtis]

27 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

Bortolini was very good at the Senior Bowl. Technically sound and quick. I would not be surprised at all if either him or Concalves starts right guard this year, and I like Fries, I'm one of the few on here who doesn't think he sucks. We may be so good running the ball this year Richardson won't have to throw much(20-25 times a game?) This offense is going to be fun to watch and we should win a lot of games as long as we aren't playing cb's 10 yards off the line and dropping linebackers 12 yards deep on 3rd and 3. Go Colts!

Agreed

 

By mid year, this offense might be special, 

 

I wonder if our defense can at least get to 15, in points allowed

 

Having an offense that grinds it our, will help the defense stay fresh

[stitches]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

All this is true, to an extent. But there are more and more people talking about the draft every year, and some of them are serious, while others are just making noise. No doubt Brugler is serious, he's been doing this extensive draft guide for years now. I think other guys might just be rearranging names on a list.

Oh no doubt about that. I absolutely value the fact that people like Brugler, Cosell, Jeremiah, etc. actually do the work and take their job seriously. And I also agree that others do very surface level stuff(more akin to what most of us here are doing here as a hoby. Except... they get paid for it). 

 

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not fully on board with the 'everyone is the same' angle. I get the idea, but there are a ton of factors involved when considering how player prospects turn out in the long run. And just because a player doesn't hit doesn't mean the evaluation was faulty. 

My angle is not exactly "everyone is the same", they are not. That's why I value extremely highly the work some do and not so much others. And I agree that just because a player doesn't hit, it doesn't mean the evaluation was faulty... or just because a player hits unexpectedly, I don't think the evaluation was necessarily faulty either. It's important to see the reasoning behind the projections and it is important to recognize the uncertainty in any projection really. IMO the uncertainty covers for a lot of shoddy "work" and rankings because a lot of talking heads can just parrot hits and omit misses. So they are not all the same, but their results might be very close to each other. Just like in the NFL - the difference between good and bad GMs in hit rate is in single digit number over the long term. You won't get one GM that hits 80% and another that hits 20%(Although... Grigson probably was close to that one).

 

Part of it is because the ones that don't do the work, actually copy and plagiarize the work that the great ones do... example, they will take the Jeremiah and Brugler's big boards and will mash them together and just switch a few names around, or if they have a favorite they will bump him up while dropping a specific one they don't like, but in the grand scheme of things the results wouldn't be dramatically different. So the value for me is from the actual verifiable work those people do and the way they present information. WIth people like Brugler or Cosell you can actually tell that it's them that are doing the work. They give you detailed reports on why they think what they think about those prospects. And they are almost never extreme in their opinions - i.e. "this player is trash, he would never succeed in the league". You know they actually sit down and watch those guys play and actually do scouting reports from what they see on tape, rather than from what they've heard someone else say about those players. And with Brugler, even furthermore, you see a ton of background information about those players. He's pretty much doing what scouts for the teams are doing. He's digging about the childhood and adolescence of those players, he's digging up red flags, medical information(whatever is available), etc. And he's just one person. And he's doing it for 400+ players every year. You can only respect that. And I derive a ton of more value out of it than I do out of a random pundit's QB ranking for which I probably have watched more tape than he has. 

[Superman]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

Oh no doubt about that. I absolutely value the fact that people like Brugler, Cosell, Jeremiah, etc. actually do the work and take their job seriously. And I also agree that others do very surface level stuff(more akin to what most of us here are doing here as a hoby. Except... they get paid for it). 

 

My angle is not exactly "everyone is the same", they are not. That's why I value extremely highly the work some do and not so much others. And I agree that just because a player doesn't hit, it doesn't mean the evaluation was faulty... or just because a player hits unexpectedly, I don't think the evaluation was necessarily faulty either. It's important to see the reasoning behind the projections and it is important to recognize the uncertainty in any projection really. IMO the uncertainty covers for a lot of shoddy "work" and rankings because a lot of talking heads can just parrot hits and omit misses. So they are not all the same, but their results might be very close to each other. Just like in the NFL - the difference between good and bad GMs in hit rate is in single digit number over the long term. You won't get one GM that hits 80% and another that hits 20%(Although... Grigson probably was close to that one).

 

Part of it is because the ones that don't do the work, actually copy and plagiarize the work that the great ones do... example, they will take the Jeremiah and Brugler's big boards and will mash them together and just switch a few names around, or if they have a favorite they will bump him up while dropping a specific one they don't like, but in the grand scheme of things the results wouldn't be dramatically different. So the value for me is from the actual verifiable work those people do and the way they present information. WIth people like Brugler or Cosell you can actually tell that it's them that are doing the work. They give you detailed reports on why they think what they think about those prospects. And they are almost never extreme in their opinions - i.e. "this player is trash, he would never succeed in the league". You know they actually sit down and watch those guys play and actually do scouting reports from what they see on tape, rather than from what they've heard someone else say about those players. And with Brugler, even furthermore, you see a ton of background information about those players. He's pretty much doing what scouts for the teams are doing. He's digging about the childhood and adolescence of those players, he's digging up red flags, medical information(whatever is available), etc. And he's just one person. And he's doing it for 400+ players every year. You can only respect that. And I derive a ton of more value out of it than I do out of a random pundit's QB ranking for which I probably have watched more tape than he has. 

 

I don't disagree with any of this.

 

But I do think there are good drafters, and bad drafters. And I think they become obvious with the benefit of time, especially if you have some issues at QB or you have to change the coaching staff. What might be more important is whether a GM can be good enough at drafting to offset other limitations in his approach (that's the big question with Ballard; maybe the Cowboys are a better example), or if a GM's poor drafting can be compensated for by other things he does in team building (Jason Licht?) Howie Roseman is one of the best GMs in the league; he runs hot and cold in the draft, but he's relentless in using every possible avenue to improve his roster.

 

And then there are some GMs that are doomed by one, really dumb decision along the way. Which highlights again that it's *not* just about overall hit rate in the draft. It's hard to recover from drafting Tim Tebow or Johnny Manziel in the first round. 

 

Back to Brugler, I did some reading on him. Apparently he's had offers from teams, probably to be a scout, and he's not interested. I don't blame him, that's a tough gig. Based on what he does, he might be suited for a director of college scouting role. I like that he shows his work and stands by it. And I think he also displays a level of humility that people like Ben Solak are lacking; the depth of his work probably helps him appreciate that, as much as he learns, there's still a lot that he doesn't know. 

 

Daniel Jeremiah spent a decade as a scout. Nate Tice worked as a scout. Cosell is as connected as anyone. These aren't random bloggers and Youtubers. Dane has taken an interesting path, but he's also not just a random guy who hopped on a microphone one day. 

 

Anyway, way off topic. Lots of respect for Dane, for sure. The Beast is unparalleled. 

Edited April 30 by Superman
added *not*

[DattMavis]

On 4/27/2024 at 12:34 PM, Shive said:

 

Quote

I sometimes wonder when an NFL team will poach him at high enough position to be worth his time... 

I have to imagine he would need to be a Director of Scouting for it to be worth it. Road scouts make a lot less than you'd think.