Argument to have Saturday as HC with good OC.

[lennymoore24]

I never thought I would think this way, but after seeing the guys invited back for a 2nd interview so far, my favorite candidate right now is Jeff Saturday. I know, it sounds insane, but let me give you my thinking.

First of all, RARELY does it ever work where a failed former NFL coach gets a second shot and turns it around.  There is always a guy like Belichick, but that is the exception.  So I have no idea why someone would want Morris as the HC. He was a complete failure as TB HC.   Ok, so secondly, the problem we had last year was we COULDN"T SCORE!  So why are we bringing in all these defensive coordinators to interview?  I would argue not one of them is a better DC than the one we have now, so why would we want them as HC?  All the remaining teams were lead by either legendary or younger, innovative offensive coaches.  So that makes ZERO sense to me.

Ok, in watching this Bengals game, I know Callahan isn't the play caller, but has much input.  Their play calling looked like it came out of the Frank Reich school of play calling. Sometimes very predictable.  Other times, mind numbingly bad.  That last Bengals possession, they had the ball with like 2 minutes left and I thought they would methodically move the ball down the field and win it with a field goal. They had just gotten a first down with a run.  So I think on 1st down, they got like 3 yards.  The next two plays were failed long passes, which KC was waiting for.  Why not mix in runs or screens?  Handed the game away.

 

Eric Bienemy is a OC for a high powered offense. My issue with him is that Andy Reid is the genius there.  ANY OC with the Chiefs is going to look good. It is like how Peyton Manning had two OCs in Denver who both got HC jobs and both bombed terribly.

 

And who wants a special teams coach as our HC unless it is Bubba?  It is like we are interviewing people outside the franchise that aren't even as good at their unit as what we have inhouse.  

 

I am not a conspiracy person, but I could almost swear they are lining up the 2nd interviews so it comes down to Jeff Saturday against some former failed HCs or DCs.  In that case, give me Jeff Saturday and a good OC and keep the other two in place, if he would.

 

I have loved the Colts since I was very little.  But I get a feeling the Colts are going to blow it with picking a coach like Morris and then blow it drafting a QB like Stroud.

 

#SaturdayAndKellenMoore for me at this point. And I did like Ben Johnson. Too bad he pulled out.

[Jackie Daytona]

Ranking of a section of a team that a coach was the leader of.... Is a big pro or con.  It is not however the only, or arguably not even the primary, qualification.  These rankings are not empirical data.  They do not exist in vacuums either.

[craigerb]

What is NC?

[ChuggaBeer]

1 hour ago, lennymoore24 said:

I never thought I would think this way, but after seeing the guys invited back for a 2nd interview so far, my favorite candidate right now is Jeff Saturday. I know, it sounds insane, but let me give you my thinking.

First of all, RARELY does it ever work where a failed former NFL coach gets a second shot and turns it around.  There is always a guy like Belichick, but that is the exception.  So I have no idea why someone would want Morris as the HC. He was a complete failure as TB HC.   Ok, so secondly, the problem we had last year was we COULDN"T SCORE!  So why are we bringing in all these defensive coordinators to interview?  I would argue not one of them is a better DC than the one we have now, so why would we want them as HC?  All the remaining teams were lead by either legendary or younger, innovative offensive coaches.  So that makes ZERO sense to me.

Ok, in watching this Bengals game, I know Callahan isn't the play caller, but has much input.  Their play calling looked like it came out of the Frank Reich school of play calling. Sometimes very predictable.  Other times, mind numbingly bad.  That last Bengals possession, they had the ball with like 2 minutes left and I thought they would methodically move the ball down the field and win it with a field goal. They had just gotten a first down with a run.  So I think on 1st down, they got like 3 yards.  The next two plays were failed long passes, which KC was waiting for.  Why not mix in runs or screens?  Handed the game away.

 

Eric Bienemy is a OC for a high powered offense. My issue with him is that Andy Reid is the genius there.  ANY OC with the Chiefs is going to look good. It is like how Peyton Manning had two OCs in Denver who both got HC jobs and both bombed terribly.

 

And who wants a special teams coach as our HC unless it is Bubba?  It is like we are interviewing people outside the franchise that aren't even as good at their unit as what we have inhouse.  

 

I am not a conspiracy person, but I could almost swear they are lining up the 2nd interviews so it comes down to Jeff Saturday against some former failed HCs or DCs.  In that case, give me Jeff Saturday and a good OC and keep the other two in place, if he would.

 

I have loved the Colts since I was very little.  But I get a feeling the Colts are going to blow it with picking a coach like Morris and then blow it drafting a QB like Stroud.

 

#SaturdayAndKellenMoore for me at this point. And I did like Ben Johnson. Too bad he pulled out.

First thanks for your thoughts. I am very openminded about who they select for HC.  I honestly believe that if Jeff is able to assemble a good staff he will be successful.   Especially if he can trust his "qualified" coordinators to do their job without meddling.

 

 

My biggest concern is the in game decisions.   Example.   The Chiefs/Bengals game.    Holding call on KC on 3rd and 12 and at first Cincy took the penalty that would push the Chiefs back to 3rd and 22 but it gave them 2 chances (3rd and 4th down) to pick up the 1st down.  He then changed it to decline the penalty to make it 4th and 12 which was still outside of the FG range.  

 

What would Jeff have done?    Will he need to add an assistant to help with this?  Will he be able to make the correct calls?

 

Everyone is writing Jeff off without knowing who he will be bringing with him.  What if he brings Mannings as OC and Dungy as DC?    You never know what kind of staff he can assemble.   That may be why he is still in the discussion. He has a quality team coming with him.    No doubt to me he can instill discipline and "The Colts Way".   And he is trusted.

 

Again I am not pounding the table to Jeff.   I'm just saying many people make decisions without knowing the complete story

 

People need to be more open minded in life and get the whole story before writing someone off

 

 

[Hawkeyecolt]

Belichick, Dungy, Carroll all did well after being fired. Just to name a few.  Morris is a quality candidate who has some of the best connections in the league to put together a quality staff on both sides of the ball. 

[NewColtsFan]

                                  

[CR91]

[Two_pound]

Morris didn't have a good record in Tampa because Josh Freeman was his quarterback, but even so, he somehow went 10-6 one year. That's quite an accomplishment if you ask me.

[stitches]

So the argument for Jeff Saturday to be our HC is that he was worse as a HC than 30 year old Raheem Morris.... and.... *checks notes* the Super bowl coaching OCs of the Chiefs, Eagles, Bengals are worse offensive minds than ... whoever JS will bring(Dan Orlovsky?)

 

Did I get this right? 

[NFLfan]

8 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

First of all, RARELY does it ever work where a failed former NFL coach gets a second shot and turns it around.  There is always a guy like Belichick, but that is the exception.  So I have no idea why someone would want Morris as the HC. He was a complete failure as TB HC

 

That is not accurate. I guess it  depends on what you mean by "failed". Kubiak failed with the Texans but won with the Broncos. Of course there are Belichick and Carroll who failed at their previous NFL stints. Arians, Reid, Dungy, Vermeil and  Couglin are others who won Super Bowls after not doing so in their previous head coaching jobs. In fact, most of the Super Bowls have been won by coaches who were retreads. 

 

I believe most who want Saturday to be head coach prefer him because he is a former Colt. Any other candidate with a similar resume would not even be considered.

[throwing BBZ]

37 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

That is not accurate. I guess it  depends on what you mean by "failed". Kubiak failed with the Texans but won with the Broncos. Of course there are Belichick and Carroll who failed at their previous NFL stints. Arians, Reid, Dungy, Vermeil and  Couglin are others who won Super Bowls after not doing so in their previous head coaching jobs. In fact, most of the Super Bowls have been won by coaches who were retreads. 

 

I believe most who want Saturday to be head coach prefer him because he is a former Colt. Any other candidate with a similar resume would not even be considered.

 

  Or like me who believes he is as intelligent as anyone out there regarding OL play (Howard Mudd), Offense theory (Tom Moore-Peyton Manning), and that his Leadership would be exceedingly direct in demanding tight execution, in the style of that which is demanded by the best of coaches. 

 But i prefer an OC type, Callahan or Steichen. Then Jeff.

[Pelt]

8 hours ago, craigerb said:

What is NC?

North Carolina

[RollerColt]

Dear God... 

[ChuggaBeer]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

So the argument for Jeff Saturday to be our HC is that he was worse as a HC than 30 year old Raheem Morris.... and.... *checks notes* the Super bowl coaching OCs of the Chiefs, Eagles, Bengals are worse offensive minds than ... whoever JS will bring(Dan Orlovsky?)

 

Did I get this right? 

I am not arguing for Jeff Saturday.  I don't have a locked on preference at this time.   I don't think there are any home run hires that have been interviewed.    I am just saying people are losing their % over the possibility and it doesn't make sense without knowing all the details.    Assuming it will be Dan Orlovsky is exactly what I am talking about.  2nd round of interviews should reveal more (not to the fans) and we'll have a better idea of who they like 

[RollerColt]

[bluephantom87]

 

So Jeff Saturday is the ONLY one who can assemble a great staff? Based on what? Sounds like to me he needs everything to be perfect AROUND him because of his very limited coaching EXPERIENCE or specialty of any kind in which I personally got a glimpse of with that DISASTROUS run as interim. A run that ALMOST went WINLESS in two months!!! Do I feel that Jeff brought ANYTHING personally to ELEVATE the team or coaches? No. Let's be clear Jeff ONLY got that position because of his relationship with Irsay period. It was not based on qualifications or his meteoric rise up the coaching ranks by showing something special on either side of the ball.

 

This team was teetering around .500 with the subpar Ryan at qb. Jeff KNOWINGLY took the job DESPITE not having HIS own (mystery) coaching staff because he THOUGHT he could just walk in and do better with no high level coaching experience AGAINST all conventional wisdom. I saw this team COLLAPSE in HISTORIC fashion (more than once) under his watch so I'm not even buying this narrative that he can motivate or instill toughness in this marginally "talented" team. I SAW the offensive linemen STAND around as Foles was hurt after a sack and laid on the ground withering in pain as that same defender did snow angels right NEXT to Foles as Jeff looked on.

 

Loved Jeff the PLAYER but I want NO parts of him as hc!! This is Irsay's team and because of THAT Saturday is a very viable candidate who I believe Irsay will double down on DESPITE the eye test and the disastrous results that left the organization as the "new" poster child of a poorly ran franchise.

[coming on strong]

5 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

That is not accurate. I guess it  depends on what you mean by "failed". Kubiak failed with the Texans but won with the Broncos. Of course there are Belichick and Carroll who failed at their previous NFL stints. Arians, Reid, Dungy, Vermeil and  Couglin are others who won Super Bowls after not doing so in their previous head coaching jobs. In fact, most of the Super Bowls have been won by coaches who were retreads. 

 

I believe most who want Saturday to be head coach prefer him because he is a former Colt. Any other candidate with a similar resume would not even be considered.

this is the truth because i have yet to see a real argument why jeff should be the head coach .   its all just excuses why he was put in a bad situation and failed .   when he was hired the same people said jeff will change the culture and we will push for the playoffs because jeff is a leader of men .   if we stuck bubba as the  head coach when reich was fired and he went 1-7 no one would be making excuses saying he needs to bring in his own staff and it wasnt fair .    to these fans they wanna relive the old days with manning reggie and jeff saturday again .   the problem is you cant just stick a former player as head coach and everything falls into place it takes years of grinding to be a good head coach .  if you wanna relieve the glory days go get a real qualified coach and draft a QB .

[coming on strong]

3 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

So Jeff Saturday is the ONLY one who can assemble a great staff? Based on what? Sounds like to me he needs everything to be perfect AROUND him because of his very limited coaching EXPERIENCE or specialty of any kind in which I personally got a glimpse of with that DISASTROUS run as interim. A run that ALMOST went WINLESS in two months!!! Do I feel that Jeff brought ANYTHING personally to ELEVATE the team or coaches? No. Let's be clear Jeff ONLY got that position because of his relationship with Irsay period. It was not based on qualifications or his meteoric rise up the coaching ranks by showing something special on either side of the ball.

 

This team was teetering around .500 with the subpar Ryan at qb. Jeff KNOWINGLY took the job DESPITE not having HIS own (mystery) coaching staff because he THOUGHT he could just walk in and do better with no high level coaching experience AGAINST all conventional wisdom. I saw this team COLLAPSE in HISTORIC fashion (more than once) under his watch so I'm not even buying this narrative that he can motivate or instill toughness in this marginally "talented" team. I SAW the offensive linemen STAND around as Foles was hurt after a sack and laid on the ground withering in pain as that same defender did snow angels right NEXT to Foles as Jeff looked on.

 

Loved Jeff the PLAYER but I want NO parts of him as hc!! This is Irsay's team and because of THAT Saturday is a very viable candidate who I believe Irsay will double down on DESPITE the eye test and the disastrous results that left the organization as the "new" poster child of a poorly ran franchise.

some fans live in la la land where jim irsay is playing 4d  chess  .   the jeff hiring really proved my point that many on here dont have their own opinions they just applaud every choice the team makes as their own opinion . 

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

                                  

With you on this one buddy lol.  

 

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

this is the truth because i have yet to see a real argument why jeff should be the head coach .   its all just excuses why he was put in a bad situation and failed .   when he was hired the same people said jeff will change the culture and we will push for the playoffs because jeff is a leader of men .   if we stuck bubba as the  head coach when reich was fired and he went 1-7 no one would be making excuses saying he needs to bring in his own staff and it wasnt fair .    to these fans they wanna relive the old days with manning reggie and jeff saturday again .   the problem is you cant just stick a former player as head coach and everything falls into place it takes years of grinding to be a good head coach .  if you wanna relieve the glory days go get a real qualified coach and draft a QB .

 

Yeah that's what I don't get too.  There wasn't a single thing that happened that made it look good. 

The team quit.  The team cried.  The team lost historically bad losses.  The team lost over and over an in increasingly creative ways.  

 

There is no EVIDENCE that Jeff will be a good HC that I can gather. 

 

Lack of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of lack, but I don't see any logical argument to keep Jeff. 

[runthepost]

Let’s bring back the coach that got us embarrassed 2 weeks in a row with 2 unique records! 

[coltsva]

Let's assume Jeff hires a great OC & a great DC, and the Colts have a good season. Chances are the OC & the DC will quickly become head coaches, as happened with Arians, Eberflus, and Sirianni. Then what? Jeff will need to go out and find two more great coordinators. I much prefer the Colts to try and hire a head coach who makes his coordinators successful, as opposed to hiring a HC who needs good coordinators to make him successful. 

[ChuggaBeer]

5 hours ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

So Jeff Saturday is the ONLY one who can assemble a great staff? Based on what? Sounds like to me he needs everything to be perfect AROUND him because of his very limited coaching EXPERIENCE or specialty of any kind in which I personally got a glimpse of with that DISASTROUS run as interim. A run that ALMOST went WINLESS in two months!!! Do I feel that Jeff brought ANYTHING personally to ELEVATE the team or coaches? No. Let's be clear Jeff ONLY got that position because of his relationship with Irsay period. It was not based on qualifications or his meteoric rise up the coaching ranks by showing something special on either side of the ball.

 

This team was teetering around .500 with the subpar Ryan at qb. Jeff KNOWINGLY took the job DESPITE not having HIS own (mystery) coaching staff because he THOUGHT he could just walk in and do better with no high level coaching experience AGAINST all conventional wisdom. I saw this team COLLAPSE in HISTORIC fashion (more than once) under his watch so I'm not even buying this narrative that he can motivate or instill toughness in this marginally "talented" team. I SAW the offensive linemen STAND around as Foles was hurt after a sack and laid on the ground withering in pain as that same defender did snow angels right NEXT to Foles as Jeff looked on.

 

Loved Jeff the PLAYER but I want NO parts of him as hc!! This is Irsay's team and because of THAT Saturday is a very viable candidate who I believe Irsay will double down on DESPITE the eye test and the disastrous results that left the organization as the "new" poster child of a poorly ran franchise.

Who said that?  

[strt182]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

Yeah that's what I don't get too.  There wasn't a single thing that happened that made it look good. 

The team quit.  The team cried.  The team lost historically bad losses.  The team lost over and over an in increasingly creative ways.  

 

There is no EVIDENCE that Jeff will be a good HC that I can gather. 

 

Lack of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of lack, but I don't see any logical argument to keep Jeff. 

Hmm Was they not scoring on first drives? Yes there was some things that went bad but don't discount the good while pointing out only the bad. The Oline looked better. I didn't see them quit.  I think the outcome would have been about the same with Frank if not worse. The defense has athletes but they aint superheros and got gassed n a couple of those games.

 

Sometimes things collapse in a game.  Dallas game everything went right for the Colts in the first have and everything wrong in the second.   At some point in Jeffs tenure this year there was a talk about Lets evaluate what we have I would almost bet money. 

[gspdx]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

With you on this one buddy lol.  

 

 

And yet, I keep reading.  What is wrong with me.

[BeanDiasucci]

1 hour ago, strt182 said:

 I think the outcome would have been about the same with Frank if not worse. 

They were 1-7 under Saturday, lost seven in a row, and were outscored by 87 points. How were they going to be worse with Frank? I've been frustrated with Frank the last couple of seasons, but during his five years in Indy, the Colts never lost more than four in a row. Sure, this season was already headed in a lousy direction at 3-5-1, but you just can't spin 1-7. It won't work. 

[Stephen]

The only way I could see jeff being a good coach is if we drafted a qb that was smart enough to run the peyton manning offense and he taught to him.

[strt182]

1 minute ago, BeanDiasucci said:

They were 1-7 under Saturday, lost seven in a row, and were outscored by 87 points. How were they going to be worse with Frank? I've been frustrated with Frank the last couple of seasons, but during his five years in Indy, the Colts never lost more than four in a row. Sure, this season was already headed in a lousy direction at 3-5-1, but you just can't spin 1-7. It won't work. 

Sure u can. No OC, short staff, having to put a guy in thats never called plays really, Not having to be able to implement your own plays, not being able to instill the technique or level of accountablity you desire as a coach in that short of a time. 

 

I'm not holding Jeff unaccountable but lets get real. So you are telling me if u was hired to take over for  somebody and you was told that you have 3 assistants but we just fired 2 and you are expected to due just as good as the person we just fired is logical? I wouldn't. 

[BeanDiasucci]

1 minute ago, strt182 said:

Sure u can. No OC, short staff, having to put a guy in thats never called plays really, Not having to be able to implement your own plays, not being able to instill the technique or level of accountablity you desire as a coach in that short of a time. 

 

I'm not holding Jeff unaccountable but lets get real. So you are telling me if u was hired to take over for  somebody and you was told that you have 3 assistants but we just fired 2 and you are expected to due just as good as the person we just fired is logical? I wouldn't. 

Oh, c'mon. Let's be honest. You are holding Jeff completely unaccountable.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, gspdx said:

 

And yet, I keep reading.  What is wrong with me.

Guess I’m just not as well as put together as some.

 

[crazycolt1]

41 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Oh, c'mon. Let's be honest. You are holding Jeff completely unaccountable.

While you are holding him totally accountable for the problems that were there when he got there. 

Sounds about right 

[coming on strong]

3 hours ago, strt182 said:

Hmm Was they not scoring on first drives? Yes there was some things that went bad but don't discount the good while pointing out only the bad. The Oline looked better. I didn't see them quit.  I think the outcome would have been about the same with Frank if not worse. The defense has athletes but they aint superheros and got gassed n a couple of those games.

 

Sometimes things collapse in a game.  Dallas game everything went right for the Colts in the first have and everything wrong in the second.   At some point in Jeffs tenure this year there was a talk about Lets evaluate what we have I would almost bet money. 

frank beat kc and the jags had 2-1 record against playoff teams the colts were 3-3 -1  before the QB change .    when frank was coaching matt pryor and pinter were starting when jeff took over it was raiman and fries .  that is why the line looked much better raiman starting grading out the highest on the line down the stretch .     frank is a better coach than saturday by far , jeff was clueless on time management .

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

frank beat kc and the jags had 2-1 record against playoff teams the colts were 3-3 -1  before the QB change .    when frank was coaching matt pryor and pinter were starting when jeff took over it was raiman and fries .  that is why the line looked much better raiman starting grading out the highest on the line down the stretch .     frank is a better coach than saturday by far , jeff was clueless on time management .

The Chiefs beat themselves. Frank didn't.  

Did you completely forget about last seasons end? 

I'm not advocating for Jeff but don't act like Frank didn't play a part of what has been going on for the last few years. 

[coming on strong]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Chiefs beat themselves. Frank didn't.  

Did you completely forget about last seasons end? 

I'm not advocating for Jeff but don't act like Frank didn't play a part of what has been going on for the last few years. 

frank did play a part but he is still a better coach than jeff .  that is my only point i never said frank is a great i said i put him and jim caldwell in the same category  . they both are slightly above average coaches  but saturday is a below average coach . 

 

talent levels play a massive role too  , frank has had bad QBs below average wr cores his entire time here outside of luck and rivers who he took to the playoffs .   the offensive line was bad last year too with pass blocking .   wentz was killed every other play getting hit or sacked .    

 

look at bill billichicks record post tom brady its average .  talent wins games good coaches can turn a talented roster into super bowl wins .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Chiefs beat themselves. Frank didn't.  

Did you completely forget about last seasons end? 

I'm not advocating for Jeff but don't act like Frank didn't play a part of what has been going on for the last few years. 

There was a lot more then just Frank. Frank typically in almost every year here had a top offense.  He didn’t forget how to score points. 
 

Personally what I think really happened was losing guys like Sirriani who was  known to challenge Reichs ideas and as we can see he a very good coach. Look at the coaches we lost.  He wasn’t able to fill OC roll ect with guys who would challenge his thinking. It slowly got worse after Nick left. I think we underestimate the value these coaches like Nick had on this team. Then add changing QB every year. Reich still had a top offense with different QB every year. This past year it fondly caught up with them. I was never a fan of Brady. They just promoted him without looking for the best guy.

[BeanDiasucci]

16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

While you are holding him totally accountable for the problems that were there when he got there. 

Sounds about right 

My perhaps naïve viewpoint is that if you're the interim coach, you have NO coaching experience, and you want the permanent job, you better show everybody something. Maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe a guy with who has never coached and went 1-7 as in an interim experiment is the best possible coach the Colts could hire. Maybe he stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night. 

[crazycolt1]

Just now, BeanDiasucci said:

My perhaps naïve viewpoint is that if you're the interim coach, you have NO coaching experience, and you want the permanent job, you better show everybody something. Maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe a guy with who has never coached and went 1-7 as in an interim experiment is the best possible coach the Colts could hire. Maybe he stayed at Holiday Inn Express last night. 

Everyone has different opinions but assuming Jeff would be a bad coach is not a fact and is premature to assume that. 

[BeanDiasucci]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Everyone has different opinions but assuming Jeff would be a bad coach is not a fact and is premature to assume that. 

I get that, but who hires anyone for a critical job in a sizeable company based on assuming that they would be bad would be premature? 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I get that, but who hires anyone for a critical job in a sizeable company based on assuming that they would be bad would be premature? 

The Colts are owned by one person not a board of directors. Irsay may very well name Jeff the HC. I'm not advocating or denying the hiring of Jeff because what you, me or anyone else thinks,  Irsay is the sole owner and will make the choice. 

There is always a first time for everything.  

Jeff may not have experience in being a HC but he has determination and a huge set. 

[BeanDiasucci]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Colts are owned by one person not a board of directors. Irsay may very well name Jeff the HC. I'm not advocating or denying the hiring of Jeff because what you, me or anyone else thinks,  Irsay is the sole owner and will make the choice. 

There is always a first time for everything.  

Jeff may not have experience in being a HC but he has determination and a huge set. 

I don't know or care about Jeff's "huge set" but again, I can see we clearly disagree. We all look for different things, I guess.